Eurogamer: Yogscast Kickstarter-Funded Game Folds (Oh Boy..)
- Thread starter Wolves Evolve
- Start date
Odds are they will "get away with it". I'm betting most people backed for less than $300.
Why go through the cost and trouble of a lawsuit when all you'll get is that little money? I doubt any lawyer would be willing to take the case for such a small pittance.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
That Kickstarter for potato salad was a better project than this
CecilRousso
Member
Yep
. I have little sympathy for people backing projects on the basis of that. Those that did will probably be best off just looking at it as an expensive lesson.
There's licensing fees that probably add up after two years, but having another job on the side doesn't mean the lead guy wasn't getting paid doing this game. Also, we don't know what the other five (six?) guys were doing. Their money went somewhere.
And yet they never finished the game. According to Kickstarter's TOS they are now legally obligated to refund everyone who donated.
they will get ... uhm, the guy himself doesn't probably even know what to do with that 60k.
sending a potato salad to everyone? Okey, I guess it'll be a little problematic though.
This is why I have only backed projects that are run by people who have a good track record in the gaming industry. The only Exception would be the Shadowrun Returns KS. But in the end, I was happy with the end result for my $15 investment in it.
I have backed 7 projects that I had no doubt about them making a solid game.
Pillars of Eternity - Beta in August
Divinity: Original Sin - Great game
Wasteland 2 - Early Access
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 2016
Dead State - Early Access
Shadowrun Returns - Decent Seatle campaign, good Berlin campaign
The Banner Saga - Great game, backed the trilogy
I have skipped backing many kickstarter projects because I had never heard of the developers. Later bought the games and enjoyed them. Only dissapointment in this category would be Mercenary Kings. Otherwise, I have played 13 bought kickstarter games and been happy with the experience.
You need to think before backing something, it's as simple as that, in my opinion. Most kickstarters that have gone down the drain were projects that I would never back based on their kickstarter pitch or background.
I have backed 7 projects that I had no doubt about them making a solid game.
Pillars of Eternity - Beta in August
Divinity: Original Sin - Great game
Wasteland 2 - Early Access
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 2016
Dead State - Early Access
Shadowrun Returns - Decent Seatle campaign, good Berlin campaign
The Banner Saga - Great game, backed the trilogy
I have skipped backing many kickstarter projects because I had never heard of the developers. Later bought the games and enjoyed them. Only dissapointment in this category would be Mercenary Kings. Otherwise, I have played 13 bought kickstarter games and been happy with the experience.
You need to think before backing something, it's as simple as that, in my opinion. Most kickstarters that have gone down the drain were projects that I would never back based on their kickstarter pitch or background.
These guys got less far than a rival team of mine did in their final project for college. That team had: 0 dollars funding, 5 guys, two months. They ended up with far better animations and world, actual gameplay, destructible terrain, AI for various animals that lived in their world etc. It didn't play great, but after two months all the basics were there.
Again: college kids, 5 guys, 10 years ago, 2 months, no money.
I have no idea what the fuck these guys were doing at all. We all assume they made a best effort, but did they? And if they did not have even the most basic skill to start delivering on a game like this, is that not its own kind of scam?
Again: college kids, 5 guys, 10 years ago, 2 months, no money.
I have no idea what the fuck these guys were doing at all. We all assume they made a best effort, but did they? And if they did not have even the most basic skill to start delivering on a game like this, is that not its own kind of scam?
People backed this? lol.
pinkurocket
Member
The other day I was looking through Kickstarter projects and seeing some crappy games get funded, however at least this had gameplay and something to back up asking the funds.
I'm surprised this Yogscast got such funding when probably their biggest audience is teenagers relying on their parents for money??? It's not like that Kickstarter had anything else other than empty promises with nothing to show? Really strange, however it was early in the Kickstarter career so I guess people were more gullible.
I'm surprised this Yogscast got such funding when probably their biggest audience is teenagers relying on their parents for money??? It's not like that Kickstarter had anything else other than empty promises with nothing to show? Really strange, however it was early in the Kickstarter career so I guess people were more gullible.
That's actually not true, though. The only thing Kickstarter is saying there is that Kickstarter, as in the company Kickstarter, is not to be made responsible for a failed project. That means that you can't sue Kickstarter for money if someone who created a project on Kickstarter failed to deliver. However, Kickstarter is stating that the project creators are legally obligated to fulfill their promises.
It's of course quite difficult to balance, though, since the possibility of failing is an inherent part of Kickstarter and it shouldn't be happening that an ambitious creator is left behind ruined when his project goes awry. At the same time it can't be happening that a project makes half million dollar and provides next to nothing in the end, either.
I do think all of this would be less of an issue if Kickstarter wouldn't take such a laissez-faire approach though. Kickstarter takes 5% fees on every project - that's roughly 25k on Yogventure alone - and yet they don't seem to be willing to help backers at all.
As far as I can tell, their original Kickstarter page did say and show this:
It's not unreasonable that impressionable Yogscast fans interpreted that as some kind of proof that they were further along than they were and had some type of prototype going.All of the art on this page as well as everything you can see on Yogventures official website - http://www.yognaughts.com - was created by this highly skilled team of artists and programmers!
kahboomkin
Member
Wooooooow
It's things like this that make me wonder why I ever even bothered with these guys.
Nope. They don't even care if the project is ever finished or not. As long as they get some of that cash, then it's all fine.
This is why I've decided I would never use the site again. Only backed Distance (since I loved Nitronic Rush), but I've seen enough scumming things happening on the site ever since to make up my mind about it.
Well it would be worse if they did nothing but they are at least replacing the game with another (that is probably much better) as well as other things to replace the Kickstarter rewards.
Holy fuck, half of the money went to Yogscast guys just so their name could be used? Holy crap what greedy pos.
If that is true, Winterkewl obviously thought it was worth paying to use their name.
Worth bearing in mind: Failing to do that is a breach of Kickstarter's TOS. As i understand it - IANAL - that's the framework any suing would have to be considered in. And the punishment for breaching Kickstarter's TOS? As best as I can surmise, termination of your KS account.
Ban Puncher
Member
Probably would have been if they'd been able to finish the project in some form.
From the Kickstarter's updates page.
Their base amount was 250k, and they got double plus 50 grand (so 500k total after kickstarter fees), and the Kickstarter got funded May 6th 2012, so assuming everything was up and running by the start of June, they used up most of the money in six months.
KneehighPark said:
So Yogcast essentially took half of the TOTAL, not the the original estimate?
Well if thats how this worked, Yogscast is looking more like the cause of this ship's sinking.
PrintedCrayon
Banned
Jim is always on point!
Seriously though, a Yogscast game? Who do these people think they are - Personally, I think you'd have to be crazy to back something like this. Was this game just meant to inflate their ego's?
I'm not liking this sudden trend of YouTubers/Let Players thinking they've reached rock star status. When can I expect a KSI kickstarter?
Probably just as well...I suspect they would end up getting stabbed with 5 forks lmfao
This is precisely a donation. The consumers who are donating are not exchanging for any financial reward schemes in return. They do not retain any equity in the good/service (you have no right in the process of the development of the good/service), are not viewed as investors or shareholders by the Kickstarter platform. Therefore, they are not investors.
Yeah, I feel bad for anyone who invested in a Youtube group who obviously know little to nothing about game development. I'm not sure if anyone has seen screens or videos of their game but it looked horrendous.
lol wtf is that shit?
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I'm sure they spent that money wisely
I missed that it was in development for two years, if the other people are payed by the hour I could see burning that amount of cash. but that makes this even more puzzling...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnkKUlIOD0k&feature=youtu.be
if that is the result of 1 1/2 year of development with 6 people ... wow
Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity (or, in this case, a lack of experience). I'm sure these guys didn't set out to steal people's money. Nor did they steal it. It sounds like they gave it an honest shot.
It just turns out that developing software is pretty hard, project management is pretty hard, organising a team of people to work together toward a common goal is pretty hard too. Undertaking any kind of nontrivial software project is a risky endeavour, and the possibility that you underestimate the work required and run out of money is very real. It happens all the time, even to people who've been doing it for a long time. The fact it happened to people with no real experience (as I understand it) in a project of this magnitude is not at all surprising.
People saying they "stole" or "scammed" the money and should "just refund it" are taking a pretty reductive, simplistic viewpoint. The fault here is of a failure in project sizing and planning, budgeting, and risk analysis (both on the part of the project team and the kickstarter backers).
Your post isn't hysterical enough!
Me too. I was hesitant at first, because I didn't want to repeat a joke in the same thread, but shockingly enough people forgot about that other funded scam.
Hehe, we already saw the prototyp, yes.So I had this idea for a game funded by Kickstarter...
nephilimdj
Member
No they didn't, thats the issue, they had ONE guy developing the game
Why would they need to, if they're making that kind of money being hands-off? It's worth it to them to say they're not to blame and not get involved in any possible legal battles.
Not a single cent of that dlc goes through Yogscast though.
I think the money's a little bit of a distraction; it's better to abstract the discussion to pitch it in terms of risk. Kickstarter is meant to spread risk in a manageable form among a large number of backers rather than having it pooled in one place. One thing I imagine Kickstarter have been very wary of is making sure they wrote terms which avoided the risk ending up on Kickstarter itself.
A Kickstarter donation is a risk. More importantly, for the very notion of Kickstarter to hold together, a Kickstarter donation *has* to be a risk, because if the risk isn't spread, the whole premise of Kickstarter falls through.
Wait. Even if 250k went to the name only, how did HE manage to burn that much on his own?
He even had a regular job, so he didn't work that much on the game.
The money was spent developing the game.
There was more than one person developing the game.
It's a cheap Steam key (which many of the backers already own).
I don't think that's going to satisfy people! They're apparently legally obligated to refund people at this point (according to Kickstarter TOS) since they can't follow through with the initial promise.What the fuck?
Sucks for all the backers I suppose, but backing something by "internet famous" people and a no-name developer is something that would never cross my mind.
TitusGroan
Banned
Surely Yogscast could have just used some of that sweet corporate publisher shill money to make up the difference?
Seriously though, this is shady as fuck, and kind of hilarious when we literally just had a thread about the dubious legality of a lot of Youtube gaming channels right now. The impression I'm forming, having never actually seen their show, is that the fine people of Yogscast aren't just corporate shills, they're incompetent corporate shills. Which, really, is the worst kind of shill there is. But I don't understand how, as the most subscribed UK Youtube channel and with all sorts of marketing deals in place, they are unable to finish this product. They already raised half a million. Let's be generous, and say it would take another half a mill to get the game finished. Are they saying there's no possible way they could take some of their Youtube/marketing money, and divert it into development of the game? Say, every month, take a small portion of their ad revenue, and give it to the developers as that month's salary? Portion out half a mill over the course of 12 monthly payments or something? That would get the game finished, give them a product to make money from, and wouldn't make them look like gaping arseholes.
Which they really do look like right now. Huge, turd encrusted, gaping arseholes.
Seriously though, this is shady as fuck, and kind of hilarious when we literally just had a thread about the dubious legality of a lot of Youtube gaming channels right now. The impression I'm forming, having never actually seen their show, is that the fine people of Yogscast aren't just corporate shills, they're incompetent corporate shills. Which, really, is the worst kind of shill there is. But I don't understand how, as the most subscribed UK Youtube channel and with all sorts of marketing deals in place, they are unable to finish this product. They already raised half a million. Let's be generous, and say it would take another half a mill to get the game finished. Are they saying there's no possible way they could take some of their Youtube/marketing money, and divert it into development of the game? Say, every month, take a small portion of their ad revenue, and give it to the developers as that month's salary? Portion out half a mill over the course of 12 monthly payments or something? That would get the game finished, give them a product to make money from, and wouldn't make them look like gaping arseholes.
Which they really do look like right now. Huge, turd encrusted, gaping arseholes.
:lol. Is there any obligation on the dog or friend to complete the spreadsheet?