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[Moussi]

Ethnic cleansing isn't a few hundred casualties. If they wanted to kill more the death toll could be 1000 fold what it is.

I exaggerated, but there is no excuse for this...

 

[Tallshortman]

How long until the other arab countries get involved or are they all afraid of Israel's big fat sister?

Do you not see the variety of arab and middle eastern nations that want nothing to do with not just each other but Hamas as well? There is a massive rift in the middle east and no one is going to stand hard with Hamas. Besides that, if you mean involved as in diplomatically then that's already happened albeit behind the scenes. If you mean militarily, the arab countries won't win a war against Israel.

 

[ironcreed]

Hamas doesn't want to negotiate with us, so no table, we've negotiated with Fatah, no deaths in the west bank, and sure we should evacuate the west bank too, but go ahead and convince the average Israeli that it won't come back and bite us.

Again, Hamas doesn't want to speak to us, and doesn't recognize our right to exist, what can we do to stop them from bombing us, other than bombing launching sites?

And again, why do you think we want to drive the Palestinians in the Gaza strip off? As you've seen, it's in constant population growth, and we've actually evacuated all of our settlements from the Gaza strip.

It seeme to me like you act on the base belief that Israel/the Israelies wish is to drive the Palestinians off, can you give me solid proof of that? (And no, the fact that there are a lot of Palestinian casulties don't point to that, considering that the Gazan population grows constantly).

The proof is in the pudding of the conditions they are forced to live in and Israel not wanting to meet half way with any of their demands. Keeping them under siege like animals and beating them into submission has only caused them to bite. Israel holds all the cards and the deck is fixed in their favor every time.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Nothing. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. It's just a biased source.

Do you have evidence of the bias that isn't an ad-hominem against the founder?

 

[Scrooged]

Indeed. Israel does not want a two state solution or compromise. They want them gone... period.

This is bullshit. Israel has had the capability to wipe them off the earth for decades. They have shown enormous restraint over the years.

And you say that as if Hamas doesn't want the same for Israel. The Hamas charter states that their goal is to establish an Islamic state in the place of Israel. Also, Hamas has no plans of recognizing Israel as a legitimate state.


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...rzouk-hamas-israel-fatah-reconciliation.html#

“Hamas will not recognize Israel,” Mousa Abu Marzouk, deputy chairman of Hamas’ political bureau, told Al-Monitor in an exclusive interview.

“This is a red line that cannot be crossed,” said the 63-year-old Hamas leader who played a pivotal role in achieving the reconciliation deal with Fatah on April 23.

Abu Marzouk’s remarks come as Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas meet in Qatar. The Hamas leader added that the Quartet’s requirement that Hamas recognize Israel “do not concern us one bit.”

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Hamas doesn't want to negotiate with us, so no table, we've negotiated with Fatah, no deaths in the west bank, and sure we should evacuate the west bank too, but go ahead and convince the average Israeli that it won't come back and bite us.

Again, Hamas doesn't want to speak to us, and doesn't recognize our right to exist, what can we do to stop them from bombing us, other than bombing launching sites?

Sorry, I have to call you out on that- you're either profoundly ignorant, or a profound liar. I'm not a fan of Hamas, but the statements you made are not rooted in any type of fact. I know you're an Israeli, but maybe you should find alternative sources, beyond state run media.

Regarding the most recent ceasefire, Hamas was never consulted, the found out from the media. When they proposed their amendments (which many in the media have claimed to be completely reasonable) Israel did not even bother responding, or negotiating.

When Hamas was elected, Israel announced they would punish the Palestinians for that, and intensified their blockage and siege. They stated they do not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government, and never treated them as such. Even when no rockets were being fired, Israel has routinely and constantly assassinated Hamas officials.

Israel has stated time and time again that it has no intention to ever negotiate with Hamas, and the only way to peace is to have Hamas completely destroyed. On many occasions Hamas have attempted negotiations regarding things like the blockage and restrictions on Palestinians, but have been summarily ignored by Israel.

So again- I have no particular love for Hamas, but your statements insinuating that Israel ever gave any negotiations with Hamas a chance are a complete lie. Facts don't bear this out. Being Israeli is not an excuse for your proud ignorance.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Ethnic cleansing isn't a few hundred casualties. If they wanted to kill more the death toll could be 1000 fold what it is.

Ethnic cleansing doesn't mean genocide. For example, destroying the homes of one population, seizing their land and the building settlements on them for a different population is ethnic cleansing (and colonialism). Of course, this is to be expected of a Fascist state birthed from a poorly thought out colonial project.

 

[RageBot]

That's the oldest trick in the book to bring up the Hamas charter. Do you even bother reading the links you post? Read what Hamas has to say about the charter now:



Hamas's policies are expressed in their election and political platforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Current_status_of_the_Charter

Thank you for informing me about the charter, I didn't know about that.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Let me say this as an Arab person who lives in the middle east.

I do not hate Jews, never did. But I am sad to say that I am a minority here, a lot of people have grown to hate Zionists and in turn they started to put Zionism and Judaism together as if one cannot be complete without the other but that is not true, you don't need to be Jewish to be Zionist and don't need to be Zionist to be Jewish. My personal hatreds are against Zionism's crimes against humanity and not Jews. I just wanted to clear that out so nobody would claim that I am an antisemitic person.

What happens in Palestine is nothing short of a massacre and had been going on for nearly 50 years since the six day war in 1967 and maybe even before that. Israel made immense crimes against humanity and no one can deny that, but at the same time I am having a very hard time supporting Palestine when they're doing methods that clearly doesn't work. Violence and Jihadist ways of doing things does not work and will not work against Israel because they're a too powerful foe to fight against so they will never win when they're at a huge disadvantage.

The only solution to this matter is trying their best to make a peace treaty but is seems like neither side is interested in making one (Remember what happened to Rubin?). Fatah seems like they want to make a peace treaty but Hamas clearly doesn't which caused a long conflict between the two groups which caused Hamas to take over the Gaza strip back in 2007. Not all Palestinians support Hamas but a lot do because they think they're the only one who has the courage to fight Israel among the Arabs but they are thinking emotionally and not rationally. I get it, they say their loved ones die by the hands of The Israeli but violence didn't work and will not work. So a peace treaty is the only thing that could stop this but a lot of people would see this as giving up and it's a form of weakness. I see it that sometimes it is the right thing to do and a lot of nations have risen to be great after giving up in war, Germany and Japan are the prime examples.

This is my take on the matter and I hope I didn't sound biased.

One problem is that the Arab League really does not want to deal with the Palestinians. At least not directly. They would rather act like complacent sympathizers. The Arab states need to realize that treating their own palestinian refugees well and allowing them to integrate does NOT illegitimize the Palestinian state movement, and that the conflict is not bilateral but rooted in decades and decades of accumulated international events activities relations and incidents. The problem belongs to the international community and the fallout is shouldered by the Israelis and Palestinians. Of particular importance have been the actions of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, France, England, and the US, but these countries don't have the balls to identify themselves as primary players in the events or as necessary participants in a resolution to the conflict. They need to see it as their problem

 

[RustyNails]

This is bullshit. Israel has had the capability to wipe them off the earth for decades. They have shown enormous restraint over the years.

And you say that as if Hamas doesn't want the same for Israel. The Hamas charter states that their goal is to establish an Islamic state in the place of Israel. Also, Hamas has no plans of recognizing Israel as a legitimate state.


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...rzouk-hamas-israel-fatah-reconciliation.html#

So what. The important thing is they agreed to 67 borders, and that's more than enough. Bunch of Muslim countries don't recognize Israel today either.

All of this will be solved if both Israel and Hamas agree to King Abdullah's API. PA is already on board and so is Arab league. Hamas will bend to pressure. But Israel wants nothing to do with it.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Do you have evidence of the bias that isn't an ad-hominem against the founder?

The overall narrative the publication constructs, from my limited experience reading it and hearing an interview with an editor, is one that is critical of Israeli policy. It is a bias built into the stories that it publishes, and part of how news works or part of how we tell stories.

About Mondoweiss
Mondoweiss is a news website devoted to covering American foreign policy in the Middle East, chiefly from a progressive Jewish perspective.
http://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss

"[A] progressive Jewish perspective" is a way to view things, a bias inherent in understanding. Doesn't mean its full of information that is not factual, just that factual information will be selected and presented from the stated perspective. Its not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

 

[ironcreed]

This is bullshit. Israel has had the capability to wipe them off the earth for decades. They have shown enormous restraint over the years.

And you say that as if Hamas doesn't want the same for Israel. The Hamas charter states that their goal is to establish an Islamic state in the place of Israel. Also, Hamas has no plans of recognizing Israel as a legitimate state.


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...rzouk-hamas-israel-fatah-reconciliation.html#

Yes, both sides want each other gone and it's sick. Obviously Israel can't just wipe them all out, but they sure as hell do not want them there. That much is beyond clear.

Just for the record, I am not defending HAMAS and I damn sure do not like them or support some insane Islamic state bullshit. I only care for the Palestinian people, who also have a right to exist, instead of being collectively punished with bombardment inside of an open air concentration camp.

 

[Pilgor]

Do you have evidence of the bias that isn't an ad-hominem against the founder?

It's no secret.

I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist’)
by Philip Weiss

Also, just because he's Jewish, doesn't give him a free pass to say:

I would like Jewish participation in mainstream media roundtables on the Middle East held to 50 percent or lower.

Jews control the media? Come on, it's getting old.

 

[Scrooged]

That's the oldest trick in the book to bring up the Hamas charter. Do you even bother reading the links you post? Read what Hamas has to say about the charter now:



Hamas's policies are expressed in their election and political platforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Current_status_of_the_Charter

Well if they say so I guess we'll just trust them. Never mind their history of terrorism, suicide bombing, using civilians as shields, denial of the holocaust, and constant rocket attacks at Israel itself.

 

[Zen]

Sorry, I have to call you out on that- you're either profoundly ignorant, or a profound liar. I'm not a fan of Hamas, but the statements you made are not rooted in any type of fact. I know you're an Israeli, but maybe you should find alternative sources, beyond state run media.

Regarding the most recent ceasefire, Hamas was never consulted, the found out from the media. When they proposed their amendments (which many in the media have claimed to be completely reasonable) Israel did not even bother responding, or negotiating.

When Hamas was elected, Israel announced they would punish the Palestinians for that, and intensified their blockage and siege. They stated they do not recognize Hamas as a legitimate government, and never treated them as such. Even when no rockets were being fired, Israel has routinely and constantly assassinated Hamas officials.

Israel has stated time and time again that it has no intention to ever negotiate with Hamas, and the only way to peace is to have Hamas completely destroyed. On many occasions Hamas have attempted negotiations regarding things like the blockage and restrictions on Palestinians, but have been summarily ignored by Israel.

So again- I have no particular love for Hamas, but your statements insinuating that Israel ever gave any negotiations with Hamas a chance are a complete lie. Facts don't bear this out. Being Israeli is not an excuse for your proud ignorance.

Well put.

Additionally, the way that Israel uses Hamas as a brick wall is completely baseless, as if Hamas is preventing progress being made or peace. The israelis could have settled the conflict any time before 2006 after all. Every year there is a vote on the resolution to settle the conflict and it is like 160+- 7.

 

[Zen]

It's no secret.

I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist’)
by Philip Weiss

Also, just because he's Jewish, doesn't give him a free pass to say:



Jews control the media? Come on, it's getting old.

This does not mean that his content is false. He is a practicing Jewish American whom happens to be anti Zionist.

 

[Scrooged]

Yes, both sides want each other gone and it's sick. Obviously Israel can't just wipe them all out, but they sure as hell do not want them there. That much is beyond clear.

Just for the record, I am not defending HAMAS and I damn sure do not like them or support some insane Islamic state bullshit. I only care for the Palestinian people, who also have a right to exist, instead of being collectively punished with bombardment inside of an open air concentration camp.

Collectively punished? Hamas is interwoven with the civilian population. Are you saying that Israel simply cannot ever attack Hamas?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's no secret.

I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist’)
by Philip Weiss

Also, just because he's Jewish, doesn't give him a free pass to say:



Jews control the media? Come on, it's getting old.

Fine.

But what about this assertion makes the column in question, where the IDF leveled a hospital knowing it held no munitions and posed no threat to Israel, written by a staffer who at first glance does not appear on your list of alleged anti-Semites, problematic at all?

 

[Pilgor]

Thank you for informing me about the charter, I didn't know about that.

However, Mahmoud al-Zahar, the founder of Hamas said "The Hamas charter is a matter for interpretation. It expresses a political and social position based indirectly on the Koran. There is no doubt about the Koran itself, but the charter is a political vision. No one is thinking now about changing the charter, but in principle it is not impossible." Source

Additionally, Zahar said "If I were to tell you that the charter could be changed, it would immediately be seen as a concession and the collapse of Hamas’ principles. No one is thinking now about changing the charter, but in principle it is not impossible.” Source

For details on the Hamas Charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, and the death of Jews, look here.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

One problem is that the Arab League really does not want to deal with the Palestinians. At least not directly. They would rather act like complacent sympathizers. The Arab states need to realize that treating their own palestinian refugees well and allowing them to integrate does NOT illegitimize the Palestinian state movement, and that the conflict is not bilateral but rooted in decades and decades of accumulated international events activities relations and incidents. The problem belongs to the international community and the fallout is shouldered by the Israelis and Palestinians. Of particular importance have been the actions of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, France, England, and the US, but these countries don't have the balls to identify themselves as primary players in the events or as necessary participants in a resolution to the conflict. They need to see it as their problem

I don't know the reasons of other Arab countries but we here in Kuwait stopped talking Yasir Arafat after he alliance with Saddam to help him invade us in 1990 but relations are slowly getting back with helping hem.

 

[zeroOman]

Here is the img of Hamas kidnapping the soldier

(I don't know if is true or fals)

 

[Pilgor]

Here is the img of Hamas kidnapping the soldier
(I don't know if is true or fals)

Terrible. I hope he isn't tortured.

Edit: That's a picture from 2011.

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=35126&cid=23&fromval=1

 

[zeroOman]

Terrible. I hope he isn't tortured.

what... did they tortured the last one?

 

[ironcreed]

Collectively punished? Hamas is interwoven with the civilian population. Are you saying that Israel simply cannot ever attack Hamas?

Yes, collectively punished. Meaning, that civilians are paying the highest price here. Innocent families having their homes destroyed, children massacred, etc. Cutting off power and carpet bombing the place to kingdom come is not going to do anything but make things worse, while innocent people pay the price. The use of force and casualty count is so grossly disproportionate that there is just no comparison. Sorry.

 

[LNBL]

Here is the img of Hamas kidnapping the soldier

(I don't know if is true or fals)

Google reverse seems to indicate it's a picture from 2011

 

[RustyNails]

Israel should have given the Fatah/Hamas union a chance.
Especially with the ISIS nutters gaining influence next door. Better the devil you know!

I thought the unity deal was still standing. Did it fall through?

 

[nib95]

This is bullshit. Israel has had the capability to wipe them off the earth for decades. They have shown enormous restraint over the years.

And you say that as if Hamas doesn't want the same for Israel. The Hamas charter states that their goal is to establish an Islamic state in the place of Israel. Also, Hamas has no plans of recognizing Israel as a legitimate state.


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...rzouk-hamas-israel-fatah-reconciliation.html#

Maybe you should actually do your research. Hamas has already stated they no longer abide by that charter, and that they agree to a two state solution based on the 67 borders. Stop drinking the US media "they just want Israel to cease to exist" cherry aid. There are extremists in both camps, but the fact is, Hamas is the only one agreeing to a two state solution right now. There is enough evidence to suggest that Israel is not interested in peace, nor a two state solution based on anything close to those legal, and internationally recognised (1947) borders.


Also, Israel IS wiping Palestine off the map, just in a very meticulous and callous way. Little by little as to draw less attention to the land stealing and settlement expansion, and instead more on the Gaza seige and exchange of fire instead.

Have you seen how much of Palestine there is today compared to in the past?

The image above doesn't even account for the areas of Gaza that are controlled by Israel, such as the ports, air space, borders aside from those connected to Egypt etc.

 

[NewEraBlood]

Amazing. Yes , Hamas fire rockets for shits AMD giggles. Isreal have been pulverising Gaza indiscriminately long before the rockets were fired by hamas. Besides , this about the 3 murdered teenagers

So firing rockets at civilian population centers is ok if you think it's justified?

A lot of these comments are completely ignorant about Hamas. Hamas is a TERRORIST organization in multiple countries. The fact that they were elected by a group of people doesn't change the fact that they were, are, and will continue to be a TERRORIST organization. Hamas isn't some small freedom fighter standing up for Palestine, it is a group of Jihadists that use humans as shields for propaganda purposes. Just because Israel is wrong does not make Hamas right.

 

[eot]

So what. The important thing is they agreed to 67 borders, and that's more than enough. Bunch of Muslim countries don't recognize Israel today either.

Israel would never go back to those borders, even if it meant peace.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I can totally see the point of view from both sides, and it's horrible that these people are being killed.

However, Hamas continued to the poke the bear to rile shit up, they knew it was only a matter of time before Israel had enough to justify a full ground invasion.

But then you have government officials over in Israel talking about killing the mothers of the "terrorists", showing how they are just as bad and fucked in the head as the people they are fighting.

All the while people who just want to fucking live their life are caught in the middle between two extremes who are in a perpetual war.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

It's no secret.

I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist&#8217
by Philip Weiss

Also, just because he's Jewish, doesn't give him a free pass to say:

I would like Jewish participation in mainstream media roundtables on the Middle East held to 50 percent or lower.

Jews control the media? Come on, it's getting old.

Not a single one of those things is evidence of "bias". The guy is opinionated, and that opinion stems from facts. It is not tantamount of bias. You do not like what he says, but that does not mean he's not being objective.

And what the fuck is wrong with that 50% of less statement? Why does he need a "free pass" to say it? Unless you have a victim-complex, it sounds completely, utterly reasonable, considering most of what we hear, in terms of interpretation of events from Middle-East from mainstream media, goes through an Israeli-friendly filter. Why SHOULD Jewish people (who in many cases agree with Israeli policy and have a preset point of view) hold MORE than 50% presence in media roundtables, especially when they dont exactly hold a big percentage of Middle-Eastern population? Why is it that I hardly EVER see any Muslim intellectuals in these discussions (of which there are a shitload in the US, theyre just never given any attention or prominence) who have very insightful and differing opinions about events?

As for "Jews running the media", its not some conspiracy theory. It's based on specific, statistical, substantiated facts that you purposely want to mock and obtuse to pretend there's nothing there. The problem is the influence that pro-Israeli supporters have on media reporting, and the echoing of bullshit Israeli PR claims.

 

[ironcreed]

So firing rockets at civilian population centers is ok if you think it's justified?

A lot of these comments are completely ignorant about Hamas. Hamas is a TERRORIST organization in multiple countries. The fact that they were elected by a group of people doesn't change the fact that they were, are, and will continue to be a TERRORIST organization. Hamas isn't some small freedom fighter standing up for Palestine, it is a group of Jihadists that use humans as shields for propaganda purposes. Just because Israel is wrong does not make Hamas right.

I agree with that and have no love for such a group. But the Israeli sentiment seems to be that the entire population deserves to be punished because they elected them. Even Ariel Sharon's own son said as much. Are all of the dead children we are seeing lining the streets terrorists?

 

[RustyNails]

Israel immediately broke off talks with Fatah and committed to continue building settlements on disputed land.
I think it has to do with "united they stand, divided they fall"

Bare in mind that the settlement are Illegal under international law.

Yeah I understand that. But my question is whether the unity government is still standing, or did Hamas and Fatah dissolve it in the face of this military onslaught? I couldn't find any reports that claimed such.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

How long until the other arab countries get involved or are they all afraid of Israel's big fat sister?

Not sure why you want a war to be started. There will be more than just hundreds that will be dead.

Maybe you should actually do your research. Hamas has already stated they no longer abide by that charter, and that they agree to a two state solution based on the 67 borders. Stop drinking the US media "they just want Israel to cease to exist" cherry aid. There are extremists in both camps, but the fact is, Hamas is the only one agreeing to a two state solution right now. There is enough evidence to suggest that Israel is not interested in peace, nor a two state solution based on anything close to those borders.

Also, Israel IS wiping Palestine off the map, just in a very meticulous and callous way. Little by little as to draw less attention to the land stealing and settlement expansion, and instead more on the Gaza seize and exchange of fire instead.

Have you seen how much of Palestine there is today compared to in the past?

The image above doesn't even account for the areas of Gaza that are controlled by Israel, such as the ports, air space, borders aside from those connected to Egypt etc.

I wish we would all just say "fuck borders, let's live together" and not care about national identity being tied to a piece of land.

Israeli's lost their lands first and coexisted in other nations until WW2. Now they needed and got their land back. Unfortunately for Palestinians, migrating and being absorbed into other countries is most likely the outcome in the future if Terrorists continue to put labels on innocent Palestinians as targets.

Any innocent Palestinians may have to coexist within Israel or move to other Arabian countries: A complete reversal of what happened to the Israelis back in the middle ages.

 

[Pilgor]

As for "Jews running the media", its not some conspiracy theory. It's based on specific, statistical, substantiated facts that you purposely want to mock and obtuse to pretend there's nothing there.

"Jew's running the media" is an anti-semitic proposition, and doesn't belong in this thread. Keep it to yourself.

 

[NewEraBlood]

I agree with that and have no love for such a group. But the Israeli sentiment seems to be that the entire population deserves to be punished because they elected them. Even Ariel Sharon's own son said as much. Are all of the dead children we are seeing lining the streets terrorists?

Of course they're not, and you know that is a ridiculous argument. Of course any time you have civilians caught between warring groups it's a tragedy, but the onus is not completely on Israel.

Hamas has done their share to provoke, and on top of that have used things like hospitals and private homes to store weapons and operate from. This is insurgent 101. When we were in Iraq my unit would routinely be shot at from mosques, schools, and hospitals because they knew if we did fire back they could use it as propaganda to recruit and gain international sympathy. The only difference between the US and Israel is our ROE forbid firing back at civilian population centers and religious sites, theirs does not.

 

[nib95]

It's no secret.

I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist’)
by Philip Weiss

Also, just because he's Jewish, doesn't give him a free pass to say:

Jews control the media? Come on, it's getting old.

That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying the Jewish angle on Middle East politics at round table debates, such as you see on news channels like Fox, CNN etc should be less than 50%, presumably more of it from the Muslim or Arab perspective (which is only fair, and would be journalistically impartial).

Right now media coverage in the US is massively lop sided in favour of Israel. Politicians, famous personalities, journalists etc, often get heavy condemnation and reprisal for commentary that is critical of Israel, even for tweets such as #FreePalestine, which is ridiculous, but the reality right now. The Israeli lobby AIPAC also has tremendous political power and sway, and is one of the most powerful and well funded lobbies in the country. That's just a matter of fact.

 

[Partial Gamification]

"Jew's running the media" is an anti-semitic proposition, and doesn't belong in this thread. Keep it to yourself.

You interpreted that from what you linked about roundtable representation.
Did he say "Jews control the media?" There is a pro-Israeli influence that can be seen in the mainstream media in the US but control is hyperbolic. I don't know if its antisemitic or if you just like tossing that around.

 

[KingFire]

I'm sitting here shocked with disbelief.

I had an Israeli acquaintance whose sibling was killed in the IDF. She was practically brainwashed into hating the other side.

I'm gonna laugh if I get banned for this, but whenever I talk to people from those parts of the world, nearly all of them come across as anachronistic warring brutes.

Their values just perpetuate war and hatred. I don't understand it, and never will. They're continuing a legacy of violence and hate that destroys the soul.

Think about it, both sides are practically assembly lines of hate-footsoldiers. Each generation more ambiguously bitter than the last.

I feel sorry for your loss, Rapier. I have lost a friend many years ago in the conflict too. I agree with you on the bolded. I do not think this conflict will resolve anytime soon. People are way too emotionally invested in this. More people will die, and there is nothing we can do.

 

[t-storm]

As for "Jews running the media", its not some conspiracy theory. It's based on specific, statistical, substantiated facts that you purposely want to mock and obtuse to pretend there's nothing there.

Oh my god, get outta here with that shit.

 

[Sheroking]

"Jew's running the media" is an anti-semitic proposition, and doesn't belong in this thread. Keep it to yourself.

Yeah, a bit of a line here that some dumb people don't recognize.

A huge percentage of television executives and film studio executives are Jewish - a statement of fact.

"Jews" run entertainment (to control the message and their push zionist agenda) - an anti-semetic statement based on no evidence in particular.

 

[t-storm]

So firing rockets at civilian population centers is ok if you think it's justified?

A lot of these comments are completely ignorant about Hamas. Hamas is a TERRORIST organization in multiple countries. The fact that they were elected by a group of people doesn't change the fact that they were, are, and will continue to be a TERRORIST organization. Hamas isn't some small freedom fighter standing up for Palestine, it is a group of Jihadists that use humans as shields for propaganda purposes. Just because Israel is wrong does not make Hamas right.

Your factual, objective and rational posts aren't welcome here, sorry.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

I can totally see the point of view from both sides, and it's horrible that these people are being killed.

However, Hamas continued to the poke the bear to rile shit up, they knew it was only a matter of time before Israel had enough to justify a full ground invasion.

So, ZERO Israelis dead by rocket attacks to you justifies this invasion? Do you realize that the 1st death by rocket attack came 11 days after Israel started bombing the shit out of Gaza?

I truly think that many of you are unconsciously bigots and racists, you just don't realize it. It's the only way to explain what many of you claim "justifies" the carnage we're seeing in Gaza.

How many Palestinians is an Israeli life worth? 10? 100? 300? 500? Infinite? Because so far the ratio is almost an insane 500 - 1, and many of you seem to be completely fine with that, continuing to spout your same talking points. Very twisted and depraved. I doubt the vast majority of those killed have anything to do with the rocket attacks (which, incidentally, kill less Israelis per year than lightning strikes, or peanut butter allergies. Statistically almost non-existent).

Hamas is a red herring, and always has been. Even if Israel manages to wipe out every single Hamas member, another group with another name will materialize. Thats what happens when you squeeze the life out of an entire population. Groups like this will inevitably be forced. Israel knows this too, and they know that their current campaign is only going to spur more hatred and radicalization. The ONLY way is to be willing to negotiate, and Israel has already stated this is not something they're willing to do. They would rathe keep the status quo, and just commit massacres every now and then to keep the cycle going.

 

[KingFire]

I like how Israel seems to do the same shit to different countries all the time. They always claim that hezbollah/hamas hide fucking nuclear warheads in peoples living rooms, human shields etc which is the excuse they use to defend their ethnic cleansing. So baffling how people fall for this. every. time. They use white phosphorus for the lulz every time too just to troll the world. fuck this.

Americans fell for WMD hidden in Iraq and even went to war because of it.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

 

[eot]

Yeah, a bit of a line here that some dumb people don't recognize.

A huge percentage of television executives and film studio executives are Jewish - a statement of fact.

"Jews" run entertainment (to control the message and their push zionist agenda) - an anti-semetic statement based on no evidence in particular.

It's not about facts, it's about the moronic implications.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Your factual, objective and rational posts aren't welcome here, sorry.

Your sarcasm is inappropriate even if this is the internet. Valid points but made with a very broad brush.

 

[Pilgor]

How many Palestinians is an Israeli life worth? 10? 100? 300? 500? Infinite?

According to Hamas, 1,027.

 

[ironcreed]

Of course they're not, and you know that is a ridiculous argument. Of course any time you have civilians caught between warring groups it's a tragedy, but the onus is not completely on Israel.

Hamas has done their share to provoke, and on top of that have used things like hospitals and private homes to store weapons and operate from. This is insurgent 101. When we were in Iraq my unit would routinely be shot at from mosques, schools, and hospitals because they knew if we did fire back they could use it as propaganda to recruit and gain international sympathy. The only difference between the US and Israel is our ROE forbid firing back at civilian population centers and religious sites, theirs does not.

I don't doubt that they do hide around certain population centers, but still, many more are just so easily written off as 'collateral damage' and it's disgusting. To be frank, both sides of this conflict make me sick and are guilty in my eyes because murder and death is never going to be the solution.

Too many poor people caught up in the line of fire and pay the price for the arguing ruling class that they are under. It's all just so savage and sometimes I wonder if the human race will ever evolve beyond it all. Ugh, I have had enough of this for today.

 

[NewEraBlood]

Americans fell for WMD hidden in Iraq and even went to war because of it.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

No one claimed Hamas had WMD's. And it's funny that you say Americans "fell" for the WMD lie when it was British Intelligence that gave the faulty reports to ours in the first place. Also WMD doesn't just mean nuke, it also can be chemical. Which Saddam had, just ask the 10,000 Kurds he gassed.

I don't doubt that they do hide around certain population centers, but still, many more are just so easily written off as 'collateral damage' and it's disgusting. To be frank, both sides of this conflict make me sick and are guilty in my eyes because murder and death is never going to be the solution.

Too many poor people caught up in the line of fire and pay the price for the arguing ruling class that they are under. It's all just so savage and sometimes I wonder if the human race will ever evolve beyond it all. Ugh, I have had enough of this for today.

I am 100% in agreement with this. I think both sides are at fault, and the ones paying the price are the civilians in Gaza and the IDF soldiers sent there.

 

[nib95]

Americans fell for WMD hidden in Iraq and even went to war because of it.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

Right. In fact, the majority of Americans initially supported the war. Thank God it was the opposite case in most of the rest of the world. But it's difficult to pin the full blame on all the pro war supporters, they were massively misled by their media and government.

Honestly the US needs an entire media revolution and body similar to Ofcom here in the UK, that can at least somewhat enforce some level of partiality, and reprimand news outlets for presenting misinformation or being too impartial. Right now in the US, much like in many non developed countries, the TV news media is a bit of a circus, with agendas being pushed left and right, especially with channels such as Fox news.

Compare Fox News with Sky News, both owned by Murdoch, both conservative slanted, but the degree to which there is impartiality is orders of magnitude of a difference, mainly because of Ofcom, which empowers the general publics ability to condemn and raise a stink about impartiality in the news, here in the UK.