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[nib95]

Funny, in that article it says,

He and his friends obviously haven't researched in to it enough.

Examples of translation inaccuracies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute#Alleged_translation_inaccuracy

More inaccuracies and misconstruing information.
http://normanfinkelstein.com/2006/h...terview-to-portray-him-as-a-holocaust-denier/

Selective Memri
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/weekend-opinions/selective-memri-1.455676

 

[RustyNails]

Vice's Armageddon Now has made me wonder how much AIPAC's influence really plays a part in the US's support of Israel. They point out that there's a large number of megachurches whose pastors preach that Israel's control of the entirety of the Holy Land is a necessary precursor for the Rapture, and they encourage their congregations to donate significant amounts of money to the Jewish settlers and put immense pressure on local politicians to support the expansion of Israel's territory.

AIPAC is huge. This tells you all you need to know from their wiki:

Among the best-known critical works about AIPAC is The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, by University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer and Harvard University Kennedy School of Government professor Stephen Walt. In the working paper and resulting book they accuse AIPAC of being "the most powerful and best known" component of a larger pro-Israel lobby that distorts American foreign policy. They write:[54]

AIPAC's success is due to its ability to reward legislators and congressional candidates who support its agenda, and to punish those who challenge it. ... AIPAC makes sure that its friends get strong financial support from the myriad pro-Israel PACs. Those seen as hostile to Israel, on the other hand, can be sure that AIPAC will direct campaign contributions to their political opponents. ... The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress. Open debate about U.S. policy towards Israel does not occur there, even though that policy has important consequences for the entire world.

 

[RK9039]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Not verified who the shooter was.

Whoever did this is worse than dog shit.

 

[Jackpot]

They bombed a hospital.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28399292

Whoever did this is worse than dog shit.

In past incursions several Israeli snipers testified that they were ordered to cleanse the streets of all Palestinians.

 

[Terra Firma]

So what should they do then?

Not launch rockets? Kinda obvious.

Nobody has defended Hamas launching rockets but it is an understandable response. They have no real channel of communication with Israel (and Egypt does not see Hamas in a favourable light either because of its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood) and Israel doesn't listen to Hamas's concerns, using the old mantra of not dealing with terrorists nor does it make any true concessions that might improve the quality of life in Gaza.

But as of now, they see Israel as a force attacking them so they can't stop firing rockets, even if they wanted to.

 

[knicks]

So what should they do then?

Is this a serious question? Uhhh...cease fire?

 

[Kenshin001]

He and his friends obviously haven't researched in to it enough.

Examples of translation inaccuracies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute#Alleged_translation_inaccuracy

More inaccuracies and misconstruing information.
http://normanfinkelstein.com/2006/h...terview-to-portray-him-as-a-holocaust-denier/

Selective Memri
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/weekend-opinions/selective-memri-1.455676

Think it's quite obvious to anyone with half a brain that MEMRI is Israeli propaganda and is only going to show the worst of anti Israeli, anti Jewish and anti Western rhetoric coming out of the Arab world, but there is no denying that a lot of what they translate is genuine. This stuff exists. For every Israeli laughing it up over the death of children there is an Arab praising Hitler.

 

[Gintamen]

So what should they do then?

Pray and wait till they have nothing left obviously.-_- There is no defending of them firing rockets at civilian places of Israel, but it get's easier and easier to see them being forced into such acts.

And those attacking the tunnels may be reminded that those are the only ways to get much needed goods into gaza.

Is this a serious question? Uhhh...cease fire?

It's a fact that cease fire didn't help at all, it has worsen the situation.

 

[Kenshin001]

Not launch rockets? Kinda obvious.

Nobody has defended Hamas launching rockets but it is an understandable response. They have no real channel of communication with Israel (and Egypt does not see Hamas in a favourable light either because of its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood) and Israel doesn't listen to Hamas's concerns, using the old mantra of not dealing with terrorists nor does it make any true concessions that might improve the quality of life in Gaza.

But as of now, they see Israel as a force attacking them so they can't stop firing rockets, even if they wanted to.

Just wondering because when I suggested that before the argument seemed to be "but Israel is stealing their land." If they really want to save Palestinian lives they must stop.

 

[Zen]

yeah cuz Hamas was hiding in this family building

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121965370&postcount=1253

wait hear this



https://twitter.com/MohammedYIsmail/status/491193985856053248


https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/491197924219449344

They have specifically targeted the hospitals with poison gas before as well. To say nothing of steamrolling the only chicken coop in Palestine, killing all the chickens inside,because reasons.

 

[Linkhero1]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Not verified who the shooter was.

This was very hard to watch. Hoping the others made it out safe.

 

[GameAddict411]

I never glossed over that. It is one of the great embarrassments and stains on British history. But the vast majority of the British public were still against the war, and extremely skeptical of our government, and the evidence presented.

The entire thing seemed like a sham from the offset, and imo it was not difficult to come to that conclusion, based on the series of events and loose evidence presented. Hell we even forced along a public enquiry and investigation in to it here in the UK, which was obviously a farce, but was something none the less.

the US was going either ways, they were just looking for excuses to do so.

 

[nib95]

Think it's quite obvious to anyone with half a brain that MEMRI is Israeli propaganda and is only going to show the worst of anti Israeli, anti Jewish and anti Western rhetoric coming out of the Arab world, but there is no denying that a lot of what they translate is genuine. This stuff exists. For every Israeli laughing it up over the death of children there is an Arab praising Hitler.

I agree on the latter. But just to correct you, MEMRI is an Israeli propaganda tool. It specialises in anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab and anti-Islamic, or just generally pro Israeli/Jewish rhetoric. If you read the Guardian article, you'll also see that it is immensely well organised and no doubt funded. They mass message the personal emails of journalists across the world with information and propaganda. It's pretty crazy when you think about it. Hell, they even get grants from the US government (though admittedly many organisations get funding via the Office of International Religious Freedom).


http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/state...epeatedly-cited-by-mass-murderer-breivik.html

Jim Lobe asks, How many times did mass murderer Anders Breivik refer to the Middle East Media Research Institute in his Islamophobic manifesto?

Well I just went to Breivik’s manifesto and I counted, 23 references to MEMRI or MEMRITV.

MEMRI is an Israel lobby shop. Its directors include Elliott Abrams. Its advisers include a lot of Bush-era neocons, Bernard Lewis, Norman Podhoretz, John Bolton, not to mention Mort Zuckerman, Ehud Barak (the former Israeli P.M.) and Edgar Bronfman.

Why are we asking about MEMRI? Look at this at the State Department–they’re giving em money!

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/08/170397.htm

The Department of State’s Office of International Religious Freedom in the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor awarded a $200,000 grant to the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) to conduct a project that documents anti-Semitism, Holocaust denial and Holocaust glorification in the Middle East. This grant will enable MEMRI to expand its efforts to monitor the media, translate materials into ten languages, analyze trends in anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial and glorification, and increase distribution of materials through its website and other outlets.

Through translations and research, MEMRI aims to inform and educate journalists, government leaders, academia, and the general public about trends in anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial in the Middle East and South Asia, thus generating awareness and response to these issues. MEMRI is a non-governmental organization based in Washington, DC, whose research is translated into ten languages: English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, Polish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, and Hebrew.

The Office of the Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism (SEAS) advocates U.S. policy on anti-Semitism both in the U.S. and internationally, developing and implementing policies and projects to support efforts to combat anti-Semitism. The Special Envoy was created by the Global Anti-Semitism Review Act of 2004, and is a part of the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor.

 

[StuKen]

Is this a serious question? Uhhh...cease fire?

And then what? Back to the status quo of systematic west bank land grabs when they cooperate and total blockade of the gaza strip? Be honest, no action by hamas or whatever organization comes after them will change Israeli policy, that's been set in stone since the end of the second intifada. The routine bombing and invasions will continue, the land grabs will continue. The endgame of this for Israel is decades down the line where the last Palestinian is somewhere else or even more preferable, dead.

 

[Gintamen]

Think it's quite obvious to anyone with half a brain that MEMRI is Israeli propaganda and is only going to show the worst of anti Israeli, anti Jewish and anti Western rhetoric coming out of the Arab world, but there is no denying that a lot of what they translate is genuine. This stuff exists. For every Israeli laughing it up over the death of children there is an Arab praising Hitler.

What's your point. This was all about excluding MEMRI from the discussion, not to show that both sides have their bad people. We know that, only idiots would asume otherwise.

Israel is forcing the JDF into gaza to eliminate/murder the militants, but don't they realize that they are creating two or more by killing one? Is that why they murder whole families, so not a single family member can become a militant eitherr? Works in concert with that monster in the israely parliament talking about killing mothers and children.

 

[Terra Firma]

Just wondering because when I suggested that before the argument seemed to be "but Israel is stealing their land." If they really want to save Palestinian lives they must stop.

No, they cannot stop now because they see it as defense. No government would stop attacking once their country (or in this case, governance) is being attacked. They have nothing to fight against Israeli arsenal so they are desperately attacking, hoping to hit something. They should not have launched rockets initially in response to the capture and rearrest of Hamas members, but again, that was a response that Israel could have easily avoided by not arresting Hamas members (and then indefinitely jailing them and subjecting them to torture).

An analogy would be a civilian shooting (a pellet gun) at a gang (armed to the teeth) that is abducting people. His response is understandable but it is not a particularly helpful response in the long run.

(and I really doubt anyone is saying that this conflict is about land theft; the blockade on Gaza turning it into a prison certainly does not help the situation)

 

[Goliath]

Hamas is wrong in arbitrarily firing rockets. It is an unsurprising response though due to their frustration with Israel but in the bigger picture, it is not helpful for the Palestinian cause.

Other things to be mad at Hamas about are thankfully in the past, such as suicide bombings. You'll note that as soon as Hamas got responsibility of running a people, its activities against Israel have not gone beyond launching ineffective rocket attacks.

I think you give WAY to much credit to Hamas. Their suicide bombings were cut down by the crackdown on the blockade and not because Hamas has changed their tactics. They have been caught many times trying to tunnel into Israel to commit mass murder using their suicidal tactics.

If they didn't believe in martyrs they wouldn't be hiding themselves and their equipment in schools, Hospitals or other civilian areas.

 

[Kenshin001]

What's your point. This was all about excluding MEMRI from the discussion, not to show that both sides have their bad people. We know that, only idiots would asume otherwise.

Israel is forcing the JDF into gaza to eliminate/murder the militants, but don't they realize that they are creating two or more by killing one? Is that why they murder whole families, so not a single family member can become a militant eitherr? Works in concert with that monster in the israely parliament talking about killing mothers and children.

It's ironic you say that because the Israeli MP didn't say those things. She posted something said by Uri Elitzur and it was reported by all the anti Israeli media as something she said. That is why MEMRI should be included because there are no objective media in this discussion.

 

[nib95]

B]They have been caught many times trying to tunnel into Israel to commit mass murder using their suicidal tactics.[/B]

Can you post links to actual credible news sources regarding this information? I'd like to see it please. And by credible source I don't mean something like MEMRI, or an Israeli Military or Governmental spokesperson.

That is why MEMRI should be included because there are no objective media in this discussion.

What kind of a ludicrous assertion is this? There are varying levels of objectiveness in media. A propaganda tool like MEMRI, is obviously not on the same level as something like The Guardian, The BBC or whatever. Likewise you'd be cautious to accept facts straight from the IDF or Hamas, and would instead refer to organisations like the UN, UNICEF etc.

 

[zeroOman]

That will confuse alot of ppl

 

[Chariot]

That will confuse alot of ppl

CNN is starting to annoy me.

 

[ironcreed]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Not verified who the shooter was.

Yeah, I would love to hear the defense and justification of this. They are running around like trapped rats, scrounging around for survivors through rubble while being picked off. Unbelievable, just un-fucking-believable.

 

[Razgreez]

Edit - saw the exact question asked above

 

[jakonovski]

That will confuse alot of ppl

I don't think I've ever seen a mistake like that go the other way.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Yeah, I would love to hear the defense and justification of this. They are running around like trapped rats, scrounging around for survivors through rubble while being picked off. Unbelievable, just un-fucking-believable.

Human shields for Hamas rubble.

 

[RustyNails]

I thought Hamas dropped suicide bombing after they were democratically elected. I could be mistaken.

Its a deplorable and criminal tactic nonetheless and Hamas should be ashamed of using it. Also keep in mind there are groups not under control of Hamas as well.

 

[Chariot]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Not verified who the shooter was.

What the fuck. Why does anybody feel the need to shoot a already downed man until he is dead, if not malice. The most heartbreaking moment was after he was shoot while already unable to move and him stretching out the arm for help, the eyes full of despair, because everyone else is too scared to move.

 

[yarden24]

Can you post links to actual credible news sources regarding this information? I'd like to see it please. And by credible source I don't mean something like MEMRI, or an Israeli Military or Governmental spokesperson.



What kind of a ludicrous assertion is this? There are varying levels of objectiveness in media. A propaganda tool like MEMRI, is obviously not on the same level as something like The Guardian, The BBC or whatever. Likewise you'd be cautious to accept facts straight from the IDF or Hamas, and would instead refer to organisations like the UN, UNICEF etc.

there are actually videos of Hamas(or Islamic jihad, though doubtful) members tunneling out of the ground, before being bombed, though the videos come from the idf, i very much doubt they are false

 

[Kenshin001]

Can you post links to actual credible news sources regarding this information? I'd like to see it please. And by credible source I don't mean something like MEMRI, or an Israeli Military or Governmental spokesperson.

What kind of a ludicrous assertion is this? There are varying levels of objectiveness in media. A propaganda tool like MEMRI, is obviously not on the same level as something like The Guardian, The BBC or whatever.

You are telling me to read The Guardian, posting stuff from Mondoweiss and complaining about MEMRI. They are all the same to me, each with their different biases.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Can you post links to actual credible news sources regarding this information? I'd like to see it please. And by credible source I don't mean something like MEMRI, or an Israeli Military or Governmental spokesperson.

Funnily enough, I just read this -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/

Also by the pictures, these tunnels are not "holes in the dirt" like some of you suggested. They are fully reinforced with concrete and would take months to build. The same concrete and effort Hamas could have used to build bomb shelters for it's people in Gaza.

I really can't understand how some of you can justify the terror tactics utilized by Hamas on a daily basis. The fact that the IDF uses arguable methods and disproportional response, does not give Hamas a free pass on these war crimes.

On a different note, it sounds like there are new talks for a cease-fire, led by Egypt but with closer terms to what Hamas demands -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...israel-egypt-initiative-idUSKBN0FQ1DX20140721

 

[nib95]

there are actually videos of Hamas(or Islamic jihad, though doubtful) members tunneling out of the ground, before being bombed, though the videos come from the idf, i very much doubt they are false

If they're from the IDF, they have a high chance of being false. So yea, like I said, please give me a proper source. Add to that, operatives or whatever coming out of a tunnel to be bombed is not the same thing as burrowing tunnels right the way through to Israel in order to carry out suicide bombings. Those two things are wildly different.

 

[Summer Haze]

This is horrible, hope we get some clarification about what is going on in this video and who is shooting.

Fucking hell, that is terrible. We sit here and talk about this conflict and how terrible it must be for the civilians, but It's not until I watch one of these videos that I truly realise just how bad they have it.

The camera guy praying to God while that man dies right in front of him is haunting. This is too much.

 

[mario_O]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Video does specify a Israeli soldier though this is not verified.

Needs its own thread. Disgusting what Israel is doing.

 

[Pollux]

Just to clarify I wasn't drive by posting and will respond later. Can't right now. But yes, Israel is wrong in the level of force they're using on this offensive.

 

[nib95]

Funnily enough, I just read this -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/

Also by the pictures, these tunnels are not "holes in the dirt" like some of you suggested. They are fully reinforced with concrete and would take months to build. The same concrete and effort Hamas could have used to build bomb shelters for it's people in Gaza.

I really can't understand how some of you can justify the terror tactics utilized by Hamas on a daily basis. The fact that the IDF uses arguable methods and disproportional response, does not give Hamas a free pass on these war crimes.

On a different note, it sounds like there are new talks for a cease-fire, led by Egypt but with closer terms to what Hamas demands -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...israel-egypt-initiative-idUSKBN0FQ1DX20140721

Ok I'll be honest, that tunnels is definitely far more extensive than I imagined. At least internally anyway. On another point, I very much doubt those tunnels would act as a proper bomb shelter at all. Like the tunnels that resistance, rebels, terrorists etc in other parts of the world have built (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq etc), usually bombs and missiles just end up causing them to be crushed in the tunnels or buried alive.

I would highly advise against such hack job tunnels as being used for civilian bomb shelters. Can you imagine if a bomb struck a tunnel with hundreds of civilians, women, children etc in it, and caused the tunnel to cave in?

I dread to imagine.

On a side note, peace talks are great and all, but I can't see them working out in the long run. The most important thing right now aside from an immanent ceasefire, is putting a stop to the demolitions of Palestinian structures and displacement of it's people, as well as working towards lifting the brutal occupation and granting the Palestinian's sovereignty, or at least some more control over things like humanitarian aid, ports, trade etc.

 

[theignoramus]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Video does specify a Israeli soldier though this is not verified.

if authentic, this is conclusive evidence of a war crime

 

[Spacecowboy77]

In past incursions several Israeli snipers testified that they were ordered to cleanse the streets of all Palestinians.

That's a very bold statement. Source please?

Also that video of the sniper is crazy. I don't really understand what's going on.
Who are the people across the street with the yellow vests and why are they just standing there if there's a sniper around?

 

[Partial Gamification]

[...]
On a side note, peace talks are great and all, but I can't see them working out in the long run.

Then everything that follows is pointless:

The most important thing right now aside from an immanent ceasefire, is putting a stop to the demolitions of Palestinian structures and displacement of it's people, as well as working towards lifting the brutal occupation and granting the Palestinian's sovereignty, or at least some more control over things like humanitarian aid, ports, trade etc.

These are the issues surrounding a peace deal. What you suggest seem part and parcel of a peace deal.

 

[Summer Haze]

if authentic, this is conclusive evidence of a war crime

The camera guy's cries sound pretty authentic to me.

(I'm not saying that sarcastically, either. In case it gets taken the wrong way )

 

[Spacecowboy77]

I would highly advise against such hack job tunnels as being used for civilian bomb shelters. Can you imagine if a bomb struck a tunnel with hundreds of civilians, women, children etc in it, and caused the tunnel to cave in?

I wasn't implying that they should use these actual tunnels as shelters for civilians. I was referring to the effort and materials used here. Instead of building helpful civilian infrastructure, they are apparently using it for their militant terror tactics.

I really hope some kind of cease-fire can be negotiated here, at least give us some hope for the future.

 

[ironcreed]

if authentic, this is conclusive evidence of a war crime

I'm doubting that they are running around staging being shot while being bombed from air and sea and invaded by ground. These people are trapped with nowhere to go. The entire act is a war crime.

 

[nib95]

if authentic, this is conclusive evidence of a war crime

Don't forget this UN report and it's findings either…

Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

The U.N. committee regretted Israel's "persistent refusal" to respond to requests for information on children in the Palestinian territories and occupied Syrian Golan Heights since the last review in 2002.

During the 10-year period, an estimated 7,000 Palestinian children aged 12 to 17, but some as young as nine, had been arrested, interrogated and detained, the U.N. report said.

Many are brought in leg chains and shackles before military courts, while youths are held in solitary confinement, sometimes for months, the report said.

Nor this…

DCI - Palestine submits 14 cases of sexual assault and threats to the UN for investigation
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1476&CategoryId=1

On 18 May 2010, DCI-Palestine submitted 14 cases to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture for investigation. The submission relates to the sexual assault, or threat of sexual assault, of Palestinian children at the hands of Israeli soldiers, interogators and police between January 2009 and April 2010. The ages of the children range from 13 to 16 years.

DCI-Palestine is becoming increasingly alarmed at reports contained in sworn affidavits received from children that they are being subjected to sexual assault, or threat of sexual assault, in order to obtain confessions.

In one of the cases documented by DCI-Palestine, a 15 year-old boy recalls his experience after being arrested by Israeli soldiers from his family home at 2am, in September 2009: ‘While sitting on the ground near the truck, a person speaking Arabic approached me and grabbed my hands and ordered me to stand up and accompany him. He grabbed me so violently and pulled me. He forced me to walk with him for about 20 metres and I could see from under the blindfold that we stopped behind a military jeep. He slapped me hard twice and grabbed my testicles so hard and started pressing them. Then, he asked me whether I threw stones and Molotov cocktails and I said I did not. He started shouting and saying ‘liar, your mother’s a c**t.’ He started beating me all over my body and once again he grabbed my testicles and started pressing hard. “I won’t let go of your testicles unless you confess,” he said to me. I felt so much pain and kept shouting. I had no other choice but to confess to throwing stones.’

There have been several reports now regarding IDF personnel torturing or threatening otherwise innocent Palestinians, in to signing confessions of crimes they never committed.

 

[Goliath]

Ok I'll be honest, that tunnels is definitely far more extensive than I imagined. At least internally anyway. On another point, I very much doubt those tunnels would act as a proper bomb shelter at all. Like the tunnels that resistance, rebels, terrorists etc in other parts of the world have built (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq etc), usually bombs and missiles just end up causing them to be crushed in the tunnels or buried alive.

I would highly advise against such hack job tunnels as being used for civilian bomb shelters. Can you imagine if a bomb struck a tunnel with hundreds of civilians, women, children etc in it, and caused the tunnel to cave in?

I dread to imagine.

On a side note, peace talks are great and all, but I can't see them working out in the long run. The most important thing right now aside from an immanent ceasefire, is putting a stop to the demolitions of Palestinian structures and displacement of it's people, as well as working towards lifting the brutal occupation and granting the Palestinian's sovereignty, or at least some more control over things like humanitarian aid, ports, trade etc.

He is not suggesting using those tunnels as bomb shelter. He is saying that the amount of work and resources used to build one of MANY tunnels to try to transfer weapons or send out suicide terrorist could have been used to actually help out the community. Build bomb shelters, or green houses to provide food and shelter for people. But Hamas would rather use every resource including civilians to strike at Israel instead.

 

[RiZ III]

I wasn't implying that they should use these actual tunnels as shelters for civilians. I was referring to the effort and materials used here. Instead of building helpful civilian infrastructure, they are apparently using it for their militant terror tactics.

I really hope some kind of cease-fire can be negotiated here, at least give us some hope for the future.

Even if they built these bomb shelters, Israel has bombs that could destroy them and I'm sure they would claiming there were weapon inside. When they are bombing hospitals, ambulances, and blowing up entire families, I have no doubt that they would bomb shelters as well.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Even if they built these bomb shelters, Israel has bombs that could destroy them and I'm sure they would claiming there were weapon inside. When they are bombing hospitals, ambulances, and blowing up entire families, I have no doubt that they would bomb shelters as well.

See, this kind of murderous intent is something still I can't imagine because of the simple fact that Israel have the means to plain out destroy the whole city if they wanted to. This has yet to happen.

Call me an optimistic but I can't imagine a whole army of murderous psychos sitting on nukes and high tech equipment and they just use it to slaughter innocents.

 

[Chariot]

See, this kind of murderous intent is something still I can't imagine because of the simple fact that Israel have the means to plain out destroy the whole city if they wanted to. This has yet to happen.

Call me an optimistic but I can't imagine a whole army of murderous psychos sitting on nukes and high tech equipment and they just use it to slaughter innocents.

If Israel would do that, their foreign supporters would have no choice but to drop their support because that would be real genocide. As long as they somewhat pretend to be in the right, they can keep the foreign powers away.
"We don't want to kill the people, it just happens." - Can't say that if you literally flatten the city in one go.

 

[yarden24]

If they're from the IDF, they have a high chance of being false. So yea, like I said, please give me a proper source. Add to that, operatives or whatever coming out of a tunnel to be bombed is not the same thing as burrowing tunnels right the way through to Israel in order to carry out suicide bombings. Those two things are wildly different.

well, since they are either dead or escaped, i doubt you could ask them, but borrowing into Israel with weapons and explosives near a village can only have so many reasons

also, just because the IDF shows footage doesn't mean its false, im sure the same footage gets to news sources, simply because they are the only ones that can actually give it to them.

if i remember correctly 3 soldiers from the IDF have died so far fighting people coming out of these tunnels,as well as the people in the villages in the area getting orders to lock their houses and not leave for several hours while this was happening, it is not made up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phz6dLYoomc

this is when they tried entering from the sea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHDaCZgg46A

 

[Gintamen]

Funnily enough, I just read this -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/

Also by the pictures, these tunnels are not "holes in the dirt" like some of you suggested. They are fully reinforced with concrete and would take months to build. The same concrete and effort Hamas could have used to build bomb shelters for it's people in Gaza.

And what exactly stops those tunnels from being usd for good too? The tunnels have to go somewhere where they can get material, including medicine, food, conrete etc, even from israel if possible. Not just bombs like you might seem to think.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

If Israel would do that, their foreign supporters would have no choice but to drop their support because that would be real genocide. As long as they somewhat pretend to be in the right, they can keep the foreign powers away.
"We don't want to kill the people, it just happens." - Can't say that if you literally flatten the city in one go.

Ok, if I follow your logic, they are smarter than that but then what do they gain from killing innocents? It's counter productive to their efforts.

More dead children = more foreign uproar and more survivors picking up arms against them when they grow up.

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Gintamen]

Also that video of the sniper is crazy. I don't really understand what's going on.
Who are the people across the street with the yellow vests and why are they just standing there if there's a sniper around?

People that risk their lives to save wounded. I'm not sure how you didn't come that conclusion as it's the only logical reason after listening to them.