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[Coulomb_Barrier]

Difficult to disagree on any major points here. Completely pointless console, sold through lies and trickery. Hope it dies a quick death.

While that may seem a bit strong, I agree that the Xbone is not going to last anywhere near as long as the 360 and that MS must be already considering an earlier than expected exit from this gen.

 

[blankempathy]

Who did they screw over though? The always-on DRM sounded crap, people complained, they changed it before the product ever landed on shelves. You'll have to explain to me how the consumers all got the shaft there.

As for EA being dicks, as long as millions of people are happy to hand over money then why should they stop what they're doing?

And what about Kinect? What about the people who bought the kinect+x1 bundle because it was "mandatory"? Do they not qualify as being screwed over? Has Ms even addressed this quick back peddling to remove an "integral part of the xbox one that the system doesn't function without it"? People bought the x1 at launch up to the announcement of the kinectless sku because thats what Microsoft advertised the X1 and its future as which was a 500 dollar machine with camera that was mandatory. They never hinted at possibly removing the kinect from the system until the sales data came in and finally only 7ish months into the systems life span they do a 180 and remove a so called "key part" of the system

I guess if you're ea thats one way to look at it. I mean yea they're making money and the average consumer doesn't give a damn about their shady business tactics right? As a consumer though you should want better for yourself though but hey look pretty games!

 

[plagiarize]

Of course they did. They could(and should) have been hit with lawsuits from every angle.

If the bar is "fuck up so bad that hackers have CC info and potential identity theft occurred. Then we should apologize." Fine. MS is not at that level yet. They shouldn't have to apologize for announcing a service.

My original point in referring to that which I started getting away from in my last post, was just to demonstrate that apologizing isn't this horrible business move that you should never do. Apologizing is often very well received by consumers if it appears genuine (as Sony's did), yet some business will always avoid doing it under the mistaken belief that not admitting fault is always better for the bottom line.

It's just not true.

 

[Silky]

The DRM didn't happen and they certainly aren't about to remind us of it or enlighten those who never knew. Expecting them to bring up a policy that never launched and then apologize for it is just crazy. You're smoking magic crack in crazy town.

But it was GOING to happen. It was part of their 'philosophy.' It was an anti-consumer policy. Do you think this is okay that this was even considered an acceptable hardware decision?

 

[7DollarHagane]

Difficult to disagree on any major points here. Completely pointless console, sold through lies and trickery. Hope it dies a quick death.

Well more so sold through focus on features nobody actually wanted.

Microsoft made a boat and talked about how boat was the future and sailing was awesome.

The market was like "nah this cheaper, faster, better looking car is what we want"

Now it's like microsoft trying to sell a boat as a car.

 

[serversurfer]

Add this OP since people do not watch the video.

I would've watched the video, but apparently it was posted in 1943, since it requires Flash to watch it.

 

[jem0208]

Why do people keep saying they are changing and trying to give the fans what they want? I don't think there is a statement that could be made that is further from the truth. No what they are doing is trying to get traction on their product that no one is interested in, well not no one, but definitely not the amount of people they had hoped for. Wasn't it Yusuf Mehdi that said their aim was 1 billion lifetime sales on the system? So now all they are doing is mimicking the product that has all the momentum.

Like Sterling said, the company has never apologized. Instead they shifted blame to it's customers. This and all the other actions of last year should not be forgotten which is what I believe Sterling was trying to convey.

Holy crap, trying to get traction on their product = giving fans what they want.



Which is exactly what they're doing. People, wanted more of a focus on games, they got a focus on games. People wanted a Kinectless option, they got a Kinectless option etc.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I would've watched the video, but apparently it was posted in 1943, since it requires Flash to watch it.

Yeah it sucks not being able to watch jimquisition on mobile. Have to wait for the YouTube a week later.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just curious, are people expecting a public apology? Because even as crazy as that would be I can't imagine that the usual pitchforks would be put away. Then it'll just be "but did they REALLY mean it? NEVER FORGET DRM!". You either think the console is worth owning or you don't. Going by the (lol) honesty of a company means you would never buy a console, unless lies have some arbitrary expiration date until that company is A-OK again.

Expect an apology? No, this is MS we're talking about. But it would have been nice. It would have helped make me a little more sympathetic to them and more open to buying an Xbone in the future. As it stands now, I have zero intention of buying one.

 

[Anion]

The restrictions MS wanted to impose on gamers is far worse than Sony's lacking security.

Lol. This is a joke right? Cause lolol

 

[nynt9]

Holy crap, trying to get traction on their product = giving fans what they want.



Which is exactly what they're doing. People, wanted more of a focus on games, they got a focus on games. People wanted a Kinectless option, they got a Kinectless option etc.

I'm sure the 3million+ fans who bought the Kinect SKU were very happy that Microsoft "gave them what they want" by removing Kinect and $100 from the price.

 

[remnant]

My original point in referring to that which I started getting away from in my last post, was just to demonstrate that apologizing isn't this horrible business move that you should never do. Apologizing is often very well received by consumers if it appears genuine (as Sony's did), yet some business will always avoid doing it under the mistaken belief that not admitting fault is always better for the bottom line.

It's just not true.

Which I don't disagree with you with. What I disagree with is the idea that MS has done anything worth apologizing for. They announced a service, people didn't like it. They changed it. No one has lost a dime becuase of Xbox DRM.

So what is their to apologize for. Comments Penello made on an internet forum? Working on the kinect? Not putting in the same kind of RAM Sony has?

I'm sure the 3million+ fans who bought the Kinect SKU were very happy that Microsoft "gave them what they want" by removing Kinect and $100 from the price.

Early adopters get burned. They took the risk, same as PS4 owners(such as myself) did.

 

[Metallix87]

I'm sure the 3million+ fans who bought the Kinect SKU were very happy that Microsoft "gave them what they want" by removing Kinect and $100 from the price.

Microsoft isn't forcibly taking their Kinects away, are they?

 

[Peterpan]

The difference being Sony were attacked, maybe their security could have been better but someone else was the aggressor there. The DRM was MS's plan, they wanted to restrict gamers.

Well you had a choice if you wanted to get their DRM machine, I doubt anyone had a choice about their security being compromised. I will never apologize for who I am, you don't have to talk to me or befriend, but if you choose to, you know what you getting, so why must I apologize. Your comment makes little sense.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I want to see Bill Gates and Phil Spencer do this, oh and that other guy.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

And what about Kinect? What about the people who bought the kinect+x1 bundle because it was "mandatory"? Do they not qualify as being screwed over? Has Ms even addressed this quick back peddling to remove an "integral part of the xbox one that the system doesn't function without it"? I guess if you're ea thats one way to look at it. I mean yea they're making money and the average consumer doesn't give a damn about their shady business tactics right? As a consumer though you should want better for yourself though but hey look pretty games!

Nobody put a gun to their head and made them buy an Xbone, they looked at the box and decided that the console was worth the asking price even if they didn't want to use Kinect. You know what the consumers who didn't want to pay that much for a bundle with Kinect did? They didn't buy it. Nobody got screwed over.

That's how shopping works.

 

[Armaros]

Microsoft something something Prism something something NSA.

 

[hohoXD123]

It has arguably better exclusives and arguably a better controller. It's more competitive now, and a lot of the entertainment ideas are not going away.

PS4 also has arguably better exclusives and an arguably better controller. Neither system is so far ahead of the other in those regards that the majority can say which is better. I have seen fewer people mentioning that they prefer the X1 controller if anything.

I disagree about the controller since I prefer the DS4, but "better exclusives" didn't exactly help the PS3 last gen. 360 crushed it in North America relying on the same 3 or 4 franchises.

Yes it did, it's partly why the PS3 outsold the 360 worldwide a while ago.

 

[nynt9]

Microsoft isn't forcibly taking their Kinects away, are they?

Nah, they're just ensuring it won't get any more proper support (because it was promised to be an "essential part of their vision" thus it was guaranteed to get games) by making it optional and irrelevant to most devs via market fragmentation.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Yeah, let's just fire all PR departments because managing public perception doesn't matter at all, right?

Obviously it's all money and business. But I believe there are two types of corporation. The corporation which wants to make money at all costs and ignores everything else, and the corporation which knows that a happy consumer will give them money, so they try to make the consumers happy and reap the rewards. It's pretty clear to me which type Microsoft is. That won't (and hasn't) stop(ped) me from buying their products, but it does make me prefer to support competing products when I can. I'd rather support the company that tries to make money by making me happy, not the one that tries to make money by screwing me over.



What is the point of this post? Have you even watched the video or read any of the discussion? This post literally says nothing.

What is your problem ? It's ok for people to post fanboy crap like "M$, it's ok for people to say they hope it dies a quick death, what do they add to the discussion apart from hoping to rile up a few people.

 

[Neuromancer]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One in its current state isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

Great summary. The problem is, aside from people who didn't actually watch the video, some people either don't mind being treated like shit or are incapable of perceiving when they're being treated like shit, as long as it's by people behind a brand that they're fond of.

 

[jaypah]

Yeah, let's just fire all PR departments because managing public perception doesn't matter at all, right?

Obviously it's all money and business. But I believe there are two types of corporation. The corporation which wants to make money at all costs and ignores everything else, and the corporation which knows that a happy consumer will give them money, so they try to make the consumers happy and reap the rewards. It's pretty clear to me which type Microsoft is. That won't (and hasn't) stop(ped) me from buying their products, but it does make me prefer to support competing products when I can. I'd rather support the company that tries to make money by making me happy, not the one that tries to make money by screwing me over.



What is the point of this post? Have you even watched the video or read any of the discussion? This post literally says nothing.

I agree, Sony made me happier by having games and hardware that I wanted for a fair price so I bought a PS4. It wasn't because I thought their message was better. It was nice, especially how bad MS was, but that had jack all to do with the moment when I spent my money. Companies are assholes and that's how I feel. I already said it's fine for others to put stock in PR. I have no qualms about how another human lives their life. Personally I look at a product and decide if it's worth the money. Sure, I know more about games because it's my hobby but if I knew of all the shady business practices the world over (and let it affect me) I'd never buy anything! Just standing in the store having a moral dilemma and all I wanted was some damn Froot Loops.

 

[Novel Mike]

But isn't the fact that they've backtracked on a bunch of things an admission of fault on its own?

Not in the least, pay attention to how they phrase every single 180 they've made with the system. They make sound like we should be thankful they decided to not screw us over at every turn, or they are very happy about providing choices to consumers despite what they said before. They have done nothing but lie to us constantly and its biting them pretty hard right now. Even with the X1's removal of kinect it still couldn't beat the PS4 in June. I'm sure it will be much more interesting in another year or so but right now they are not happy the PS4 is beating them despite all of the things that they are trying to do.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

So people and companies can never change?

That's a very narrow way to view the world.

I've made dumb decisions in the past that I would have never made nowdays.

You learn and grow from your mistakes.

Really? You actually think this behemoth of a corporation completely changed its corporate culture on a dime because one product they make under-performed for 6-8 months?

And why do we care if they did? They're a megacorp, not a family member. We're not obliged to make up and start giving them money for their inferior product after they've screwed us multiple times in the past. Would you go back to a car company after they sold you the four-wheeled equivalent of a red ringed 360?

 

[bidguy]

I want to see Bill Gates and Phil Spencer do this, oh and that other guy.

bill gates ? hahhahhaha

 

[Metallix87]

Nah, they're just ensuring it won't get any more proper support (because it was promised to be an "essential part of their vision" thus it was guaranteed to get games) by making it optional and irrelevant to most devs via market fragmentation.

So what would you have them do, exactly?

 

[7DollarHagane]

Which I don't disagree with you with. What I disagree with is the idea that MS has done anything worth apologizing for. They announced a service, people didn't like it. They changed it. No one has lost a dime becuase of Xbox DRM.

So what is their to apologize for. Comments Penello made on an internet forum? Working on the kinect? Not putting in the same kind of RAM Sony has?



Early adopters get burned. They took the risk, same as PS4 owners(such as myself) did.

This is Jim's point. Just because things are changed we shouldn't applaud them for not screwing us. Applaud them for the good things. Not the lack of bad things.

 

[RiverBed]

Wow.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion...

 

[Dictator93]

Fantastic content as usual Jim. Also, I could never argue against someone who has a pink tie from Hong Kong.

 

[Metallix87]

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion...

Thank you for yours. Meanwhile, I've been contributing for many pages now.

 

[ironcreed]

B-B-But Phil Spencer is the messiah of the games industry and had nothing to do with MS lies!!!The one who was responsible was the evil Don Matrick but mighty Phil kicked him out of MS and now it's all about gamez gamez gamez!!!

Yet we continue to see the daily worship of Kaz, Cerny, Boyes and Yoshida. Yes, the "this fo the gamahs!" line is not marketing at all and they care so much. Come on, that fanboy shit works both ways, man.

To be honest, Sony did not have to do much at all. Microsoft kicked their own ass and all Sony did was smartly seize on that opportunity. Microsoft's clown shoes mistakes made Sony look so good that nobody even blinked when they revealed that they will also be charging for online.

At the end of the day, none of these corporations are out to be your friend and they all try to pull dirty stunts at some time or another. Some obviously worse than others, but the fact remains the same. All we can do is get loud and protest when they try and pull such stunts and hopefully we will end up with something more appealing after the dust settles. I am just thankful that we were actually able to do that with the Xbox One and I plan to enjoy mine as a result.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

If the console in its current state is good then who fucking cares what it used to be.

 

[nynt9]

So what would you have them do, exactly?

Either stick to their vision or have a better vision to begin with? Or admit that they fucked up and do an ambassador program (like the 3DS did) for early adopters.

 

[Silky]

Microsoft something something Prism something something NSA.

Hope you're using Incognito browser.

 

[bill0527]

I have no argument with that. Just against the people acting like the console should just be scrapped and avoided like the plague because of plans that never happened. I just bought the system and it's actually pretty fucking nice.

Great point. It isn't stated enough around here or it gets drowned out.

I own both a PS4 and an Xbox One. I can't really say I prefer one over the other just yet, but its certainly worth noting that Xbox One is not a big pile of shit console that GAF would have you believe. Far from it.

It has its strengths and weaknesses just like the PS4. You just have to pick and choose which strengths and weaknesses are the most important to you. The Xbox One, is a little underpowered compared to PS4. But Xbox One seems to be an all around better entertainment device and Microsoft is listening to their customers, issuing system updates, and fleshing out the feature set of the system at a lightning pace. Whereas Sony it appears, must have only 2 interns working at a snails pace on fleshing out the feature set of the system.

 

[remnant]

Nah, they're just ensuring it won't get any more proper support (because it was promised to be an "essential part of their vision" thus it was guaranteed to get games) by making it optional and irrelevant to most devs via market fragmentation.

Right. I'm sure you are really beaten up about those poor kinect owners.

Don't be an early adopter. Plans change.

This is Jim's point. Just because things are changed we shouldn't applaud them for not screwing us. Applaud them for the good things. Not the lack of bad things.

No one is applauding them here. All i'm saying to dumb comments like "The XO should die a quick, swift death" because that's good for consumers somehow.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Difficult to disagree on any major points here. Completely pointless console, sold through lies and trickery. Hope it dies a quick death.

Should Xbox even bother with next year's E3??

 

[Shinta]

I'm all for never forgetting what Microsoft tried to pull with the DRM stuff. I doubt I'll ever buy one.

But I don't really think it's a big deal that they closed their worthless TV studio experiment, and getting rid of Kinect was the right call. Furthermore, they actually had a better E3 than Sony this year.

My point here, is that while I will never forget what MS has done so far this gen, I also won't hold on to those mistakes for years so that Sony gets a pass at doing the bare minimum. Sony this year was the one showing off television stuff and barely any first party games. I thought the best thing about their show this year was infamous DLC. That is sad.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

I'm amazed at how many people speak about the industry like it's some fight between good and eveil. There is nothing noble about the MS recent moves, yes but there is nothing wrong with them either. If they make a platform that has the games people want to play. good for them. Maybe Sony/Nintendo should have done the same.

It doesn't have to be good vs evil, it could just be consumer interests vs corporate interests. And Xbox One was (and still is) very much aligned with Microsoft's corporate interests instead of the consumers'. I can only speak for myself, but I buy a console based on if I think the manufacturer is going to support it to my liking. That trust simply isn't there when it comes to Microsoft.

What I find odd is that within hardcore gamer circles, we lament how DLC and f2p is "killing" everything, how smartphone games are killing everything, how the Wii and the "casuals" were killing everything, and yet when a "core" gaming company like Microsoft tries to actually kill nearly everything, people shrug and say "welp, at least they're not still trying to kill everything. Gotta get muh Halo fix, ya know?"

 

[Jomjom]

While that may seem a bit strong, I agree that the Xbone is not going to last anywhere near as long as the 360 and that MS must be already considering an earlier than expected exit from this gen.

I hope not because that would be truly shitty. Sony stuck it out with the ps3, longer than the 360 even. I expect MS to do the same regardless of the xbone's sales performance.

That would be a real reason not to support the xbox and MS.

 

[Metallix87]

Either stick to their vision or have a better vision to begin with? Or admit that they fucked up and do an ambassador program (like the 3DS did) for early adopters.

The 3DS was a price drop. The tech was the same. There has been no XO price drop, just a new SKU without the Kinect. Not comparable.

 

[sublimit]

I want to see Bill Gates and Phil Spencer do this, oh and that other guy.

But Phil is innocent!The lying MS was the work of the evil Don Matrick!

 

[ironcreed]

No, they should be scorned for being the type of company that would even consider selling you a $500 box of lies whose primary design goals were taking away your rights and observing your responses to ads.

They should not be praised for failing to get away with it.

I'm definitely not praising such an attempt. I'm just glad none of it ever happened and now I have a better console with a lot of great gaming to look forward to. Cheers!

 

[blankempathy]

Nobody put a gun to their head and made them buy an Xbone, they looked at the box and decided that the console was worth the asking price even if they didn't want to use Kinect. You know what the consumers who didn't want to pay that much for a bundle with Kinect did? They didn't buy it. Nobody got screwed over.

That's how shopping works.

You're right no one did but that was the future microsoft advertised and sold the Xbox one as. A system that would use kinect to enhance the xbox experience! That was their vision for the foreseeable future and then 7 months in and well "our visions changed now. Now its about the games!". So how you don't think people got screwed because they should of had some foresight that only 7 months into the consoles life span microsoft would change their stance on the kinect and sell the console without the "mandatory" Kinect is ridiculous and insulting.

 

[Kinyou]

We shouldn't be ever so thankful that microsoft decided to stop fucking us over. We are not in any way beholden to them (at least I am not) and therefore they don't get to dig themselves out of a hole by doing the bare fucking minimum.

You do not earn praise through doing what should be standard in the first place.

But Sony also received praise at e3 2013 for doing everything 'normal'

It's kind of important to give feedback.

 

[BetaTeaser]

Luckily, this thread is providing the hilarity needed to make it through Monday duldrums.

 

[Kater]

That's a good summary for people who don't watch the video. First time I watched a video by this guy and can say that I probably never will again.

Wait, at least explain why you disagree with his points, please!
Seems a little bit too quick to dismiss a person as a whole just because of one video they made. :/

 

[nynt9]

The 3DS was a price drop. The tech was the same. There has been no XO price drop, just a new SKU without the Kinect. Not comparable.

And that argument is relevant how? I was giving the 3DS as an example. Counter-arguing against my example doesn't make my point less meaningful, it just derails the discussion.

 

[D1renegade]

Yeah, it's a bit too early to declare the console a failure.

 

[Tobor]

Microsoft is the video game equivalent of the Chris Rock "I take care of my kids" routine.

You get no credit for doing what you're supposed to do, especially since we all know the only reason they are doing what they should have done in the first place is that they're getting beat in the marketplace.

They need to do their time in the doghouse, take the L, and try again
next gen. If there is a next gen.