Hating on a company is even worse. You've got to make a separation between a person and a corporation on how you deal and reason with it. Being angry at a company the same way you are angry at someone is pretty dumb. Microsoft is an entity that is represented by the work of thousands of people, just like Sony is. You whether understand their decision and make a choice to buy one of their products or you don't. There's no place for sentiments in this choice.
Jimquisition (July 21) - The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Hating on a company is even worse. You've got to make a separation between a person and a corporation on how you deal and reason with it. Being angry at a company the same way you are angry at someone is pretty dumb. Microsoft is an entity that is represented by the work of thousands of people, just like Sony is. You whether understand their decision and make a choice to buy one of their products or you don't. There's no place for sentiments in this choice.
was this really a counter argument to my post? i mean, did you seriously think it was?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
No, there are lots of people that wanted to play Xbone games but didn't want to pay that much for the console. Those people then jumped in with later price drops and then a subsequent Kinectless SKU enticed more people to buy an Xbone.
The people that bought the original mandatory Kinect SKU did so because they felt it was worth the price in order to play those games.
That's it. It's that simple. Nobody buys a console because they think it's bad value. Taking Kinect out of the box later does nothing to change that.
All this talk of "Microsoft's vision was a lie" and 180s is meaningless fanboy drivel.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think to say "We are 6 months in and Microsoft seemingly has no idea what the real vision for this product is, be cautious, consumers". Doesn't mean you should boycott every MS product, or that the Xbox One will never be worthy or purchase, or is even worthy of purchase now.
More like an addendum. I don't think there is a rational counter argument to the idea that the consumers should be calling the shots.
nycgamer4ever
Member
That sounds like a great idea on paper but in reality if everyone did this we would have absolutely NO generations. Companies will not spend hundred of millions in R and D and the money involved in advertising and releasing a product only to have no sales until 1 or two years after the consoles release. Not to mention the capital it takes to update firmware and hardware and add services. There is much more involved than just someone behind the scenes pressing buttons. It's just not how the business works.
Jimmyfenix
Member
If people are not going to watch the video here is a good summary.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Your post is super vague though. How does it apply here?
Except we don't get "something brilliant" we get EA instead.
All this shit was removed 5 months before the console even released though.
Why are people so upset about something that was never more than an idea? One which was very quickly squashed and has never been even hinted at being revisited.
"...the NSA's big wet dream machine..." LOL I was always thinking the same thing. After it was revealed how many big companies were in on the PRISM surveillance program, it's not entirely implausible to think that maybe the NSA had some hand in convincing Microsoft to market this high-end camera/microphone combo into the world's living rooms.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think until MS comes out and says "That was a terrible idea, putting DRM on physical releases is a terrible idea. Having a console that requires an online connection is a terrible idea" people are rightly going to be a little cautious with that. The sentiment with MS seems to be "Those were all good ideas we just need to figure out how to sell them better" which doesn't fill people with a lot of hope.
Ah. Well, I think they have shown respect to their bottom line, which just so happens to benefit gamers. If they had apologized while they were doing it, I would have said ok they have shown respect to gamers and their wallets. But instead, it's simply that they know they have to do these things if they are going to be competitive. And I want to emphasize that there are two parts to what should have happened. Microsoft did the more important part right, and that was change the policies. That is why I am willing to consider buying one at 299. But they did not do the secondary, yet still important for the customers to hear, part of apologizing. For the many many deceptions, the many times they tried to blame us for their behavior. And then after that the goal is to stop that behavior altogether, and yet it was only weeks ago they were still being deceptive about their systems power.
So, there's two parts.
1. Change (let's say 70% important for me)
2. Apologize for the deceptions; show understanding for why they had to change (30% important for me)
And yet I feel like as a consumer it's right to demand both, and to withhold a purchase until you get both.
Swass
Member
Do you seriously believe Sony hasn't learned from their past mistakes and would allow the PS3 fiasco to happen a second time?
This is one of the few posts in this thread that I can agree with. Removing Kinect kinda screwed Harmonix over. Not an issue for consumers as we're still getting the game. But it does kinda suck for the devs.
Even when the opposite action(s) were the ones actually taken? That's a higher level of scrutiny than I can agree with. Intent is one thing. Deliberately taking the opposite action is another.
(Again, with obvious caveat of the Kinect decision, where I'd agree there's grounds for annoyance).
Same for iOS it's super annoying.
For me MS lost the little trust I can give a big corporation. In fact this whole journey soured me on the whole Xbox thing so much that at this point I don't see myself buying one ever.
There's too many people on this website that doesn't know what "arrogance" is when it comes to consumer products. Also, people always conveniently forget the PS1>PS2. I wonder why?
Anyways, let's go over this "arrogance". Someone just to pull this card in the NPD thread so here's a post.
I skipped around a few pages and you're constantly bringing up Sony de-railing the thread and trying to apply your opinion as facts for some strange reason.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Let's say the President of the United States announced he was going to be crowned king emperor of America in November. Then a few weeks later after the backlash he back pedals on his plans to become king. Why would anyone be upset with him? It was never more than an idea!
CambriaRising
Member
The DRM was fully implemented into the console at launch and had to be patched out upon release. Hardly "Just an idea". As for not making mention of revisiting the DRM, here is Albert Pennello on the subject:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=78612989&postcount=401
So yes, again, there has been mention of bringing them back.
Ninja Scooter
Member
What about people that **gasp** bought the system in part because of the kinect?
mightynine
Member
Yes, that's it. It couldn't possibly be because there was no sign at all that Microsoft would offer a cheaper, Kinectless SKU in less than half a year's time so they would have reason to wait.
Where did you get "hating on a company" from? He's attacking Microsoft's actions and statements from when they tried to sell the console from unveil to launch to what it is now.
It would be lovely to know what their criteria is for this, what game falls in what list according to them, and the exact numbers.
I'm not sure it is though, the title and tone of the video seem to sit in stark contrast to the very first point.
TrueGrime
Member
What about the people that bought the system in part because of kinect and have been satisfied with its use thus far?
Duxxy3
Member
Did Kinect suddenly stop working when they started selling kinect less bundles?
I Want Your Cat
Member
Wow this video was bad, this guy sounds kind of pathetic tbh. Idk I didnt really see any valid points here.
"I unplugged my kinect because it was a fucking annoyance and it screwed with my games while I was trying to play."
Idk how kinect can be annoying but I'm pretty sure kinect doesn't screw with any games. This guy has been shitting on the mandatory kinect then he shits on MS for making it optional, wtf??
Then he says people are applauding MS for focusing on games but then he goes on about dont forget what MS tried to do to us. This seems like a huge hater.
I've never watched any his videos but damn was this bad.
This guy wants an apology, he's never going to forget what MS did?
Calls xbox one a failure for failing to stick to its original plans. Is this guy joking, watching this roller coaster of idiocy is giving me a headache.
"I unplugged my kinect because it was a fucking annoyance and it screwed with my games while I was trying to play."
Idk how kinect can be annoying but I'm pretty sure kinect doesn't screw with any games. This guy has been shitting on the mandatory kinect then he shits on MS for making it optional, wtf??
Then he says people are applauding MS for focusing on games but then he goes on about dont forget what MS tried to do to us. This seems like a huge hater.
I've never watched any his videos but damn was this bad.
This guy wants an apology, he's never going to forget what MS did?
Calls xbox one a failure for failing to stick to its original plans. Is this guy joking, watching this roller coaster of idiocy is giving me a headache.
Black Mantis
Member
Not in the article, but I was just going on Phil Spencer's comments about those shows, which are in another article.
Maintenance
Member
Nice one Jim, on point. So many people shitting on Jim because of this video is so funny.
To be fair, that's basically what Apple did. Maybe the person in the post you replied is on to something.
Courtesy of Steve Jobs -
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's not going to get nearly the support now that it's been dropped like a bad habit. The thing is pretty much dead.
It would be lovely to know what you're initial basis was for the fairly ignorant remarks you made earlier.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Many of us have felt the same way watching the Xbone from announcement to launch to where it is today.
Well, you probably shouldn't call your console the all-in-one entertainment system, going so far as to put "one" in the system's name, only to backtrack on the media features.
yep. they were mocked for TVTVTVTV
Mattrick leaves, Based Phil enters, changes focus from TVTVTV to gaemsgaemsgaems and people still complain.
There are some serious issues with this analogy. A more apt analogy would be him saying that he has built an island where he is king and that for $500 you can go live there, if you want.
The point behind what I'm saying is that no one was forcing you to buy the X1. MS showed off their product and the consumer base said they didn't like it. Therefore MS changed their product. This was great for most of the consumers however some of them said that even though all the shittiness has been removed they still won't buy the it because MS won't appologise for having a bad idea then fixing it.
I want to just push back slightly on this. The problem with Sony's 2006 behavior (and for a while after) was not merely that people were shocked at the price, and I'd even agree with your basic premise that charging that price for PS3 is not actually arrogance in of itself.
What happened, however, was Sony and their press representatives began to actually open their mouths. And what was said was frequently shockingly arrogant.
Ken Kutaragi said:
Link
Jack Tretton said:
Link
And that was just the start of the amazing rodeo of nonsense spilling out from Sony at this time:
I mean, come on.
But the point is (and this continues the point that what you say and your attitude toward consumers has a value as well and must be considered) that Sony weren't viewed as arrogant "merely" because of the cost of the system, but because of everything that was going with it - their entire attitude toward gamers with what they were saying at the time. And this does matter.
blankempathy
Member
Thats such bullshit. You really think people all look at the value of something before buying it? What about little timmy who wanted the xbox one and their parents bought the system unaware of what the "value" of the console? People buy things simply because they want them all the time. While the blu ray player is mandatory for the ps3 most people bought the system because they wanted to play ps3 games. Most people didn't give a damn about the blu ray player but paid the price to play the games anyways.
If the ps3 magically could play games without the blu ray player pricing then yes people would of bought the cheaper version of that as well. Its the reason why the 12 gb or 4 gb xbox 360/ps3 skus exist because people want cheaper priced options. Fanboy talk? Microsoft advertised the xbox one as so last year and backpedaled about the kinect this year. It isn't fanboy talk either.
When rumors popped up about a kinectless sku last year microsoft was quick to squash said rumors.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/24/xbox-one-bundles-to-release-in-summer-2014-without-kinect-report/
Everything microsoft has said before the kinectless sku was announced has been about how kinect is here to stay as a mandatory xbox one peripheral. So no the talk of them doing a "180" isn't fanboy talk.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/28/micro...s-at-all-for-xbox-one-without-kinect-3939852/
GC: But I can’t get you on a yes or no for that question? Can you not say that for the first year at least, for example, there will be no Kinect-less bundle?
" Absolutely no plans at all. We think Kinect is an integral part of our platform. All of the magical experiences that you get, both as a games-player and also the way you navigate the system are made even more amazing because of Kinect."
graywolf323
Member
there's a different between having a patent on something and actually trying to implement it, Sony has patents but Microsoft actually tried to do it
Duxxy3
Member
Getting multiple titles in the fall. There are still many OS functions that only work with Kinect.
It will get the same level of support that the 360 Kinect got. I'd rather they had never released it, but its hardly worthless.
it came from a GAF thread post-E3. you can probably search for it and find it. the OP detailed everything you want to know.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because it's going to cause people to question if they know what they are doing. Releasing a product and then constantly changing the message behind it is not a great thing. It's usually what companies do when a product is failing. And consumers are smart to question it because most people probably dont' like putting their money into a failing product that doesn't know what it is.
blankempathy
Member
Actually i refering to the part about them handling being leaders in terms of sales during the ps1/ps2 sales.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
The tone is nothing out of the ordinary for the Jimquisition but I agree about the title. Look at all the attention it's got though.
So companies should just build all of their products by consensus?
Great products are built with singular vision despite the overwhelming din of naysayers. In 2004 the iPod Mini launched and according to nearly every tech fan-boy it was a colossal mistake and would be an absolute financial disaster. Thousands of posts, almost all negative right here. No one could even imagine why anyone would want to give up storage space for size.
No one owes you anything. MS, Sony, and Nintendo should lead by having a vision and sticking to it, not listening to the ravings of superfans.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
How is that relelvant to whether the system was worth the asking to them at that very moment in time? It's not water or electricity, it's a luxury item that nobody is being forced to purchase.
If it's worth it right now, you buy it. If it isn't, you don't buy it.
If I buy a console now for $400, it's because it's worth $400 to me, right now. If the price drops to $350 tomorrow, yeah it sucks but it was still worth $400 to me today. If the price stays at $400 for the next 12 months, you know what? It's still worth $400 to me today.