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2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]

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Toxi said:
I don't think anyone's claiming restraint on the part of Hamas.

Please stop killing hundreds of innocent people. I understand you have some terrible neighbors. But please stop killing hundreds of innocent people in an attack that will end up accomplishing nothing in the long run.

Do you think Israel should be on the same moral ground as the assholes who fire rockets at kindergartens?
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No, I don't. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I was just merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the woman in that video that guy posted.
 
Buzzman said:
looooool


jvTKk2t.jpg

U.S Media woohoo!
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literally "othering" Palestinians
 
So what gets me is that Natanyahu is basically saying: "They plan on us killing their children to use as propaganda, so we're obliging them."
 
kamorra said:
Must be nice to be able to concentrate on the little things like this name discussion. It certainly helps to ignore the bigger problem.
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People are taking it and running with it withotu stopping, I am done. (after this post)

just thought it was funny how the most absurd and even (one of them) offensive articles posted back to back had the names; Goldstein and Greenberg names attached to it... If anything I pointed Greenberg out for the humor, but I get it, it's not funny, so let's get back on topic here.
 
Toxi said:
Do you think Israel should be on the same moral ground as the assholes who fire rockets at kindergartens?
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Considering the amount of resolutions from the UN and the scrutiny from both European and Arab countries looking to distract from their own issues, Israel is arguably held to higher standards than any other nation on Earth.
 
I don't know how this will resolve itself.
Israel should just kill all the Palestinians at this point.
No one is going to stop them, cause no one actually cares.
 
Carcetti said:
Are you going for the root causes of this conflict and why the peace process isn't working? Well, I for one would like a pro-Israeli poster to tell me what purpose the settler settlements serve for Israel and how Palestinians are supposed to choose a peaceful resistance when they're slowly squeezed out of their living space by a heavily armed occupying force?
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Good luck getting an answer other than "b-b-but rockets!"


Yes, people retaliate when you force them. How fucking shocking.
 
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
I think it's worth to point out how twisted and biased Western media is though towards this conflict, this is nothing new, but it's kinda getting tiring. Yes we shouldn't judge journalist or "Human rights attorneys" by their last names on WP and FOX News but... We should demand fair and unbiased reporting in the US. no matter the network.
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And going "look at the JEEEWWW!" furthers that?
 
Freezie KO said:
Considering the amount of resolutions from the UN and the scrutiny from both European and Arab countries looking to distract from their own issues, Israel is arguably held to higher standards than any other nation on Earth.
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Or just the same standards as any other civilized, rich, well-off state would be held to, except it's ignoring those standards.
 
Vire said:
No, I don't. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I was just merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the woman in that video that guy posted.
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It's true, she would be taken more seriously if she was less biased.
I don't think there's many unbiased news anchors.

Emotion can get the best of people,
but they're professionals, well at least we're told they're professionals.
 
Is there any estimate out there of just how many Arabs Israel has killed since becoming a nation?
 
Vire said:
No you missed the point entirely. In the video you linked, the Palestinian woman acted like the Hamas were on some sort of moral high ground when it came to civilian casualties when the intent was exactly the same on both sides.

To harm innocent civilians.

Period. I'm not going to argue with you further about this because it's black and white.
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I think this is accurate in that both sides really don't care whether or not they kill civilians at best and are actively targeting them at worst.

I also think this is why the situation is so frustrating. Internationally, everyone recognizes that Hamas is in the wrong, but are reluctant to call Israel out on their war crimes too. This is critical, because where Israel has numerous tools to defend its innocent civilians, no one is protecting the Palestinians in Gaza. That's why this seems so one sided to people, that's why this seems unfair. And while I think you can blame Hamas for employing terrible tactics, I don't think you can blame them for Israel's treatment of Palestinians, as the West Bank is still being bled dry, only more quietly.

So yes, Hamas is terrible. Most people, including world leaders, have that side of the equation down. They just need to come out and say that Israel is no better.
 
Is Gaza actually considered a type of concentration camp?
(Heard it said like this from others)
Like do they have a lot of their freedoms taken away?

I'm just trying to educate myself on this.
 
The Terrorists have killed 2 civilians.
The Army has killed almost 500 civilians, a fifth of which are children.

But this is aceptable because "HAMAS BLABLABLA 25 YEAR OLD CHARTER BLABLABLA THEY HATE US BLABLABLA"
 
Freezie KO said:
Considering the amount of resolutions from the UN and the scrutiny from both European and Arab countries looking to distract from their own issues, Israel is arguably held to higher standards than any other nation on Earth.
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Amazing how you can make such a fucked up statement like that with a straight face. Higher standards? Thats why basically all US media, and all US politicians, fall over themselves to justify and excuse Gaza's death count with Israel's talking points? How Israel's apartheid system is never given any attention in mainstream discourse, nor is the context of the conflict? Why newspapers twist headlines and facts, emphasizing and de-emphasizing aspects in Israel's favor? When people like Vire, and millions like him, give a response of "BUT HEY HAMAS WANTS TO KILL PPL TOO" when they see a report of 500+ Palestinians dead, half of which are women and children? Why Israel has not been forced or even pressured to end its brutal occupation in violation of countless international laws? Why they can bulldozes homes at will, and take whatever they want ant any time, without repercussions?

Yeah, such high fucking standards Israel is held to.

PS- This video is worth watching again, just because of the idiotic outrage over Kerry's most recent "off the mic" comments. Stunning that he has to apologize profusely to everyone for seemingly daring to be be slightly upset with the amt of Gazan casualties, and all the calls for his resignation about acknowledging such an obvious fact in such a benign manner. Yeah, high standards indeed.

http://youtu.be/RPX0F-UqF-k
 
MutFox said:
Is Gaza actually considered a type of concentration camp?
(Heard it said like this from others)
Like do they have a lot of their freedoms taken away?

I'm just trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

This post contains two infographs that tell you a little bit about the differences between Israelis and Palestinians with rights and access to water etc.

I would not go as far as to call it a WW2 concentration camp. That's not an accurate thing to say.

EDIT: Forgot the post itself, lol. Here it is: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122037502&postcount=1629
 
MutFox said:
Is Gaza actually considered a type of concentration camp?
(Heard it said like this from others)
Like do they have a lot of their freedoms taken away?

I'm just trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

Concentration camp is an evocative analogy more than an actual term for what it is, but it, as well as the West Bank, is under military occupation and under a blockade. The IDF does not maintain an active presence in Gaza, it was pulled out in 2005, so it's kind of a prison run by the inmates thanks to the blockade and Israel reserving the right to re-enter or bomb targets inside Gaza with impunity. When Hamas was elected in the last actual election in the Palestinian territories, Israel imposed an unelected Fatah government on both Gaza and the West Bank, which was violently rejected in Gaza.

Short form: People in Gaza and the West Bank effectively have no rights and live under permanent martial law.

Freezie KO said:
Considering the amount of resolutions from the UN and the scrutiny from both European and Arab countries looking to distract from their own issues, Israel is arguably held to higher standards than any other nation on Earth.
Click to expand...

The double standard argument doesn't hold up to even a shred of scrutiny. Israel has never, in the modern part of the conflict, been sanctioned in any meaningful way, no matter what it does. The volume of UN General Assembly resolutions has a lot more to do with the fact that *absolutely none* of them are allowed to pass by the Security Council thanks to US veto. If you want a double standard, no country has ever had resolutions against it BLOCKED by the security council more than Israel has since 1965 *, and no permanent member of the council has used the veto as much as the US, most of those vetos being for the benefit of Israel.

There are definitely countries held to a lower standard than Israel by international organizations, but they are largely in the exact same situation of having unquestioned support of one of the permanent council members for geopolitical reasons.

*
800px-UNSC_veto.svg.png
 
nib95 said:
Good article and video. Nice to hear the other side from the US media from time to time.



By Joel Greenberg of Washington Post. What an absolute disgrace.

Anyone have his Twitter handle? I'd like to personally show my utter disgust for this article and headline of his. He can't even bring himself to identify the "others" or these "people" as Palestinians.
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The Neo-con Post is the worst. Don't even waste your time with him.
 
Egypt now stopping medical supplies from Tunisian airplane into gaza.

Al-Sisi staying classy as always. He is the new damn pharoe of Egypt.

Pray Allah gives him a painful Death!
 
MutFox said:
I
I'm just trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

I wish more people said this. It's so easy just to get pulled in a X vs Y mindset.

It's so easy to generalize too. You might start to see Israel as a monolithic entity, or start talking about 'Jews' doing this or that if you're on the Palestinian side. But Israel has peace activists too, and everyone should remember people like Yitzhak Rabin or Mordechai Vanunu. Same goes for Palestinians. It's just 'Hamas' is doing something. It's people. That's why those 'othering' newspaper clips in this thread are so disgusting, trying to turn people into vermin you can see getting exterminated without feeling bad.
 
maharg said:
Concentration camp is an evocative analogy more than an actual term for what it is, but it, as well as the West Bank, is under military occupation and under a blockade. The IDF does not maintain an active presence in Gaza, it was pulled out in 2005, so it's kind of a prison run by the inmates thanks to the blockade and Israel reserving the right to re-enter or bomb targets inside Gaza with impunity. When Hamas was elected in the last actual election in the Palestinian territories, Israel imposed an unelected Fatah government on both Gaza and the West Bank, which was violently rejected in Gaza.

Short form: People in Gaza and the West Bank effectively have no rights and live under permanent martial law.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wonder why Israel become fearful and oppressive when they elected Hamas officials.

Weird.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"
 
LNBL said:
The people that partcipate in demonstrations with the goal of causing uproar are scum, just like the ones that destroy property.

Would you mind giving your opinion on this report of Human Rights Watch?

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/22/gaza-airstrike-deaths-raise-concerns-ground-offensive
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I doubt he has much to say about that.

He's probably busy scouring the Internet for other events around the world where people lashed out against groups of Jews as a result of what Israel is doing.

Gotta do what you can to steer the narrative when your agenda is this strong.
 
Amjad said:
This post contains two infographs that tell you a little bit about the differences between Israelis and Palestinians with rights and access to water etc.

I would not go as far as to call it a WW2 concentration camp. That's not an accurate thing to say.

EDIT: Forgot the post itself, lol. Here it is: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122037502&postcount=1629
Click to expand...

That's really sad...
If I was stuck in a concentration camp, I'd do anything to get out. :(

maharg said:
Concentration camp is an evocative analogy more than an actual term for what it is, but it, as well as the West Bank, is under military occupation and under a blockade. The IDF does not maintain an active presence in Gaza, it was pulled out in 2005, so it's kind of a prison run by the inmates thanks to the blockade and Israel reserving the right to re-enter or bomb targets inside Gaza with impunity. When Hamas was elected in the last actual election in the Palestinian territories, Israel imposed an unelected Fatah government on both Gaza and the West Bank, which was violently rejected in Gaza.

Short form: People in Gaza and the West Bank effectively have no rights and live under permanent martial law.
Click to expand...

I saw this image being tossed around...
Is this still true?

image-supply-ban-to-gaza-may-2010.jpg
 
Carcetti said:
Are you going for the root causes of this conflict and why the peace process isn't working? Well, I for one would like a pro-Israeli poster to tell me what purpose the settler settlements serve for Israel and how Palestinians are supposed to choose a peaceful resistance when they're slowly squeezed out of their living space by a heavily armed occupying force?
Click to expand...

I can't say I'm surprised this question has been skipped over.
 
Pilgor said:
Jewish Owned Stores Burned to the Ground, Synagogue Firebombed in ‘Paris Intifada’



Video
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Loads of nice people in that article:

“This new anti-Semitism can lead to the departure of all the Jews,” he said, in an interview with Le Monde Juif. “If Sharia becomes their state religion and we let ourselves be invaded by people who do not respect the government.”
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Sounds like some islamophobe bullshit. The riots are complete bullshit too. But it'd be nice too, if you steered clear of the bullshit and for example commented on the link in LNBL's post: http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/22/gaza-airstrike-deaths-raise-concerns-ground-offensive
 
Linkhero1 said:
I can't say I'm surprised this question has been skipped over.
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Yeah. The only answer that no one seems to want to face up to is that the Palestinians are expected to just die or leave quietly.
 
Carcetti said:
Are you going for the root causes of this conflict and why the peace process isn't working? Well, I for one would like a pro-Israeli poster to tell me what purpose the settler settlements serve for Israel and how Palestinians are supposed to choose a peaceful resistance when they're slowly squeezed out of their living space by a heavily armed occupying force?
Click to expand...

Um, please tell me you are not trying to justify launching rockets at civilians because of Israeli settlement buildings?
 
Vire said:
"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"
Click to expand...

You can flip the religions in that quote and it's actual news that's on right now.
 
Vire said:
Yeah, I wonder why Israel become fearful and oppressive when they elected Hamas officials.

Weird.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"
Click to expand...

Is this relevant to the question of the rights of the Palestinian people? This is just plain deflection. The right to vote so long as a third party agrees with your vote is no right at all.

It's also worth noting that engaging in the political process has, in the past, had a moderating effect on terrorist organizations. Notably Fatah, which was itself a bus-blowing-up terrorist organization at one point, the IRA/Sinn Fein, and the ANC in South Africa. The reaction did nothing but empower the militant wing of Hamas.
 
Vire said:
Yeah, I wonder why Israel become fearful and oppressive when they elected Hamas officials.

Weird.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"
Click to expand...

Hamas was elected in 2006, and the charter is not modern nor reflective.
 
NullPointer said:
This doesn't seem like a fair argument to make. The fact that Israel has a stellar missile defense system doesn't wash away the intent behind those rockets to inflict random civilian casualties.

Hamas would love to cause mass casualties with their weapons on the civilian population if they could. Or do you think that's an unfair assumption and those rockets are purposefully meant to miss?

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around in all of this.
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that missile defense system's efficacy has been wildly overstated. It probably intercepts no more than 10% of the incoming rockets.
You can talk about Hamas' evil intentions all you want, the reality is that it's the IDF that has the precision weapons and surgical capability and we now have whole neighbourhoods being destroyed, hospitals attacked and kids on beaches blown up.
 
Zen said:
Hamas was elected in 2006, and the charter is not modern nor reflective.
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Right, they say that they have changed their ways since, but it's not hard to see why Israel sees them in the light they do.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Pilgor said:
Jewish Owned Stores Burned to the Ground, Synagogue Firebombed in ‘Paris Intifada’



Video
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Only just attempts to encircle Pro-Israel supporters and verbal Antisemitism so far in Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYTUUZLGus&t=1m10s

Jew, Jew - cowardly pig - come out and fight alone.

Congrats. This is how you edge out the general populous which may have sympathies for the Palestinians and may want to demonstrate along. You'd think the Neo-Nazis would want to show solidarity, but ever since the aggressive, messianic Salafist they stopped doing that (afaik).
 
maharg said:
Is this relevant to the question of the rights of the Palestinian people? This is just plain deflection. The right to vote so long as a third party agrees with your vote is no right at all.

It's also worth noting that engaging in the political process has, in the past, had a moderating effect on terrorist organizations. Notably Fatah, which was itself a bus-blowing-up terrorist organization at one point, the IRA/Sinn Fein, and the ANC in South Africa. The reaction did nothing but empower the militant wing of Hamas.
Click to expand...

Who had just recently announced that they are together with the PLO, who are moderates.
 
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