Jimquisition (July 21) - The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine

Quadraphonic said:
Well, we can't be sure that's all in the past. They keep insisting it was an information issue and they didn't tell us clearly how it was meant to be awesome. They think if they explained it better, we'd eat it up, without them having made changes.
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Certainly is the case that if they got away with it we'd all be doomed. Certain execs & others still saying it was the "messaging" that was wrong is far away in fantasy land. 24 hour check in is terrible, kinect doesn't and most likely will never have a 100% success rate, consumer ownership still matters (who would've thought), etc... no amount of "good messaging" would've made this better. A turd is still a turd.

But with Nadella and Spencer now in charge I get the impression they are actually in this reality so that helps loads. If they even tried to reintroduce any of the old stuff with the same negative effects for the customer... then well I shudder to think of the reaction.
 
thecharrr said:
It's less misread, more what can we get away with to make more money with their retail partners.
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yeah they didn't misread it. They did a study of some of the negative policies and the results indicated consumers would not like them at all. They ignored it and decided to go ahead anyway.

That's called hubris instead :D
 
Amir0x said:
yeah they didn't misread it. They did a study of some of the negative policies and the results indicated consumers would not like them at all. They ignored it and decided to go ahead anyway.

That's called hubris instead :D
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Was about to post exactly this. MS knew and still went with it. They specifically went with a strategy that was bad for the customer and thought they could get away with it. Business 101... don't burn the customer. In this manner it was significantly misread. Even more so that they we're the very ones that taught Sony this very lesson.
 
Bu.. but "I believe in Phil Spencer"!
The savior who fought the odds to make Xbone a better console its not as simple as doing a U-turn on every crap they told the consumers last year
 
Amir0x said:
yeah they didn't misread it. They did a study of some of the negative policies and the results indicated consumers would not like them at all. They ignored it and decided to go ahead anyway.

That's called hubris instead :D
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Exactly.

While the Internet is decidedly up in arms about the way the Xbox One handles game ownership and online check-ins, Mehdi said it was "hard to say" what the larger reaction from the less attentive mainstream consumers would be. "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/
 
GrizzleBoy said:
Meh.

Literally a "never forget" post in the form of a video? Okay.

This video sounds like a fanboy war post.

As far as I've seen, the most actual praise I've seen MS get is from their consistent update support, a supercharged consumer feedback effort (which is helping said update support) and the fact that they're focusing on great gaming.
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That's exactly what it is. Also the thought of wanting an "apology" from some big corporation is fucking laughable to me. Unless of course their "apology" is by way of money is which case i gladly except.

Just give me a lot of games i want to play and we'll call it even, going by this past E3 that's exactly what's happening. This fall the "Lying Failure Machine"(lol) will get a lot of use from me.
 
Delusibeta said:
That's not apologising, that's adapting to the general public rejecting your product in favour of your nearest rival en mass. Nobody at Microsoft has admitted that the original vision for the Xbone was anything less than perfect, and a bunch of people, Jim Sterling included, are slightly insulted by Microsoft's dismissive attitude until money made it clear that change was required. The U turns aren't apologies, they're business necessities.
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So you think it would be more productive to have MS release a statement saying "lol, sorry guiz" than to just fix the problems outright? Ok.

I mean seriously, it's pretty obvious that whatever pie-in-the-sky bullshit they had planned is gone and not coming back. A written apology wouldn't do anything positive at this point. Actions speak louder than words, and the past year has been nothing but action from them.
 
Neuromancer said:
Exactly.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/
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I know that quote well... Still makes me feel all sad and stuff.

10meX.gif
 
Dr. Black Jack said:
So you think it would be more productive to have MS release a statement saying "lol, sorry guiz" than to just fix the problems outright? Ok.

I mean seriously, it's pretty obvious that whatever pie-in-the-sky bullshit they had planned is gone and not coming back. A written apology wouldn't do anything positive at this point. Actions speak louder than words, and the past year has been nothing but action from them.
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An apology from Phil Spencer at E3 would have taken one minute and made me more likely to buy an Xbox One some day, so it's their loss really.
 
Suzushiiro said:
There's a difference between "doing the right thing" and "no longer doing the wrong thing," and MS has been doing the latter and trying to pass it off as the former. That's the point Jim's trying to make- that MS isn't 180-ing on these things and going "yeah, sorry, that was dumb, we fucked up, we'll stop" but rather "look at how great we are for no longer doing this shitty thing what we said was awesome but really we shouldn't have done in the first fucking place!"
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I take it as that as well; it's not longer justifiably HATABLE since the 180s.

Still, the name of the video is rather reductive though; it's really more about the subject of a previous video (which you described).
 
You go to a restaurant, the waiter comes out smiling and bring you a big pile of shit on a fancy plate. "I brought you the special today! Bon Appétit!"

You send it back, you can hear the waiter bitching about you to the chef, and this time he brings you shit but with a side of fries thinking that will shut you up.

You send it back again, "Please" you say "I'm begging you: no shit", and this time the waiter brings out what looks like a burger. However when you look closer you can see the shit is still there, just hidden under the bun. The waiter and chef are now clearly pointing at you and complaining about your poor taste.

You send it back again. "I'm leaving," you say "All I wanted was a burger but you keep bringing me shit!" The waiter begs you to give them one more chance. Finally they bring you just a burger, as far as you can tell shit-free, but the ketchup is surprisingly dark...

How would you feel about such a restaurant?
 
They will never actually apologise. That's something business never do unless they 100% have too.

However what they can do is show the apology... or the lesson they learned by bringing the games.... and not just carefully selected design by committee mass market shooter games either. Good innovative ones of varying genres. Once they do that then I'll happily buy one.
 
Zvonimir Boban said:
I don't get it, is the next system update going to brick everybody's kinect? Voice commands still work, navigation still works, all of the stuff that was advertised still works for anybody that wants to use it.
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No, but think about it - future devs that want to make a kinect game , know that now , barely anyone will have a kinect - so basically MS left the kinect out to die at this point onwards.

Jim is spot on , and i think many people are misunderstanding what hes saying, or knee-jerking without watching the video.
 
Guevara said:
You go to a restaurant, the waiter comes out smiling and bring you a big pile of shit on a fancy plate. "I brought you the special today! Bon Appétit!"

You send it back, you can hear the waiter bitching about you to the chef, and this time he brings you shit but with a side of fries thinking that will shut you up.

You send it back again, "Please" you say "I'm begging you: no shit", and this time the waiter brings out what looks like a burger. However when you look closer you can see the shit is still there, just hidden under the bun. The waiter and chef are now clearly pointing at you and complaining about your poor taste.

You send it back again. "I'm leaving," you say "All I wanted was a burger but you keep bringing me shit!" The waiter begs you to give them one more chance. Finally they bring you just a burger, as far as you can tell shit-free, but the ketchup is surprisingly dark...

How would you feel about such a restaurant?
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Or as I put it to my friends: If someone punches you in the face then eventually apologizes you say it's cool and all... but you don't forget and certainly keep an eye out.
 
GamerMax73 said:
If you ignore PS4 sales figure entirely. MS have shipped around 5m XBox Ones since November last year, with sales probably somewhere around the 4m mark by now. I'm not sure but I don't think that constitutes a failure? Closure to one of the most successful console launches ever. Similar sales to Wii-U that's been on the market for a whole year longer. Sure it's running second to PS4 by some margin, but at this point in the life cycle I wouldn't write the One off as a failed console.
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This kind of misses the point of what Jim is saying in terms of the failure part, if we take sales out of the equation period, you see that the Xbox One has failed in damn near everything that it set itself out to do from before launch, to when it actually launched and what has happened in the past month or so in taking out Kinect.
 
I wasn't bothered by the always online thing. I understand why people were, but the internet is always on in our house so that wasn't an issue. I was kind of intrigued to see what the new kinnect could do. Never had one before so that would have been interesting. The cable thing seemed ok too, although kind of unnecessary. What soured my interest in the X1 was the price, and the revelation that it was less powerful than the PS4.
Now that they've removed the Kinnect and reversed everything that was originally announced, I can't think of any reason why I would need one. I do like that they've rolled out a lot of updates. That's something that Sony has been really bad at it. Terrible in fact. It sometimes feels like Sony saw the PS4 sales figures, shouted, "We win." Then decided to retire.
I hope MS release an updated and more powerful model of the X1. I don't know how hard that would be for them to do, but if they don't update it, then they need to go nuclear and drop the paywall. I can't see anything else that would attract gamers back to them.
 
Winter John said:
That's something that Sony has been really bad at it. Terrible in fact. It sometimes feels like Sony saw the PS4 sales figures, shouted, "We win." Then decided to retire.
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Nah I disagree. What Sony have done is just stayed the course in regards to software updates. They're doing it in very much the same manner as ps3... one or two major updates a year.

Not too take anything away from MS of course. The monthly patches are insane (i.e. I don't think many companies could do this). Software is kind of their bag though.
 
Well he is defiantly right about them needing to apologize to their customers for a lot of the promises that they never fulfilled.

Yes they completely made the right choice by dropping the Kinect and TV stuff, but they still owe us an apology for lying, and the way they treated their loyal customers...
"fortunately for those without any form of internet connectivity, we have a product for you and it is called the Xbox 360."

We probably won't see any apologies, or even admittance of their mistakes until the dawn of the next generation, just like sony didn't really admit to their mistakes with the PS3 until after they unveiled the PS4.
 
Trey said:
I don't think it's too much to say that a game that's coming to the 360 as well as the Xbox One is an X1 exclusive.
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It absolutely is too much, which is why I didn't understand how Titanfall was supposed to move consoles. Maybe someone will buy an Xbox One simply because it gets some early release Call of Duty DLC. That's not my place to judge, if that's the value they place on that. But if everything on your console is playable elsewhere -- particularly on old hardware -- what's the point of buying it?

Getting a bit off topic and for that I apologize.
 
Well, my irritation with microsoft has passed. I'm hopeful they can turn it around because I had so much fun on the og xbox and the 360. I have my ps4, and I'm excited to see what on the ropes microsoft does.
 
All of the responses to that tweet were about how it wasn't true so you can tell whoever runs that Twitter account finally found out they can't fool people.
 
Toki767 said:
All of the responses to that tweet were about how it wasn't true so you can tell whoever runs that Twitter account finally found out they can't fool people.
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Probably a team that runs that account with a 10 step approval process for anything that actually gets tweeted.

Probably...
 
Kuni said:
Nah I disagree. What Sony have done is just stayed the course in regards to software updates. They're doing it in very much the same manner as ps3... one or two major updates a year.

Not too take anything away from MS of course. The monthly patches are insane (i.e. I don't think many companies could do this). Software is kind of their bag though.
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The PS4 does not have blue-ray, cannot play mp3/mp4 media and has barely any apps that are worth using. The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine. The front screen is a fucking mess because they didn't bother to allow the use of folders. I could go on. As for this nonsense about about them staying the course, that's not good enough. They got away with it on the PS3 because it was a free service. Now they expect people to actually pay, that just won't fly anymore.
 
Kuni said:
They will never actually apologise. That's something business never do unless they 100% have too.

However what they can do is show the apology... or the lesson they learned by bringing the games.... and not just carefully selected design by committee mass market shooter games either. Good innovative ones of varying genres. Once they do that then I'll happily buy one.
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The irony is that Nintendo had the ambassador program for early adopters and Sony offered free games to everyone who had a PSN account at the time of the hack.

I'm aware my reply in context of what I bolded from the quote is different from what you're saying, but the sentence after what I bolded MS should be doing that anyway to attract all kinds of gamers to their system regardless, they should by all accounts be aware that they didn't finish off Sony when they were at their weakest and let them catch up and surpass them.
 
Winter John said:
The PS4 does not have blue-ray, cannot play mp3/mp4 media and has barely any apps that are worth using. The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine. The front screen is a fucking mess because they didn't bother to allow the use of folders. I could go on. As for this nonsense about about them staying the course, that's not good enough. They got away with it on the PS3 because it was a free service. Now they expect people to actually pay, that just won't fly anymore.
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It has blu-ray though.
 
Jim , i have a pink tie from "france".
Are we soulmates ?


Anyway , on topic.

I don'tlike how Microsoft went and said " hey we listen to you , so we have done all we could to give you what you want" as if they were doing me a favor.

You're trying to steal my wallet , i tell you to back off and they answer by " see we backed off , aren't we wonderfull ?" and i should be happy now ?

i wish the xbone works and stay a competitive machine so that there is a steady amount of games exclusives on each side ..BUT seriously ... how can i be blamed when i just can't forget blindly that something like that happenned . Am i supposed to just give in and forget all the u-turns ?

i can't.
 
Winter John said:
The PS4 does not have blue-ray, cannot play mp3/mp4 media and has barely any apps that are worth using. The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine. The front screen is a fucking mess because they didn't bother to allow the use of folders. I could go on. As for this nonsense about about them staying the course, that's not good enough. They got away with it on the PS3 because it was a free service. Now they expect people to actually pay, that just won't fly anymore.
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It does have blu-ray unless you are talking about 3D. You're complaints are valid but have nothing to do with you paying for PS Plus since all those things work without PS Plus so no you aren't paying for a service that impacts those things.
 
Winter John said:
The PS4 does not have blue-ray, cannot play mp3/mp4 media and has barely any apps that are worth using. The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine. The front screen is a fucking mess because they didn't bother to allow the use of folders. I could go on. As for this nonsense about about them staying the course, that's not good enough. They got away with it on the PS3 because it was a free service. Now they expect people to actually pay, that just won't fly anymore.
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Wow slow down.

PS4 has blu-ray.
PS4 doesn't need 5-10 minutes to restart an app , at WORST it's 5-10 seconds depending on how the game/app was closed.
As for the store , on ps3 it went trought 4 redesigns , PS4 just keep the lastest redesign , nothing that need a mention in your improvised list.
 
Winter John said:
The PS4 does not have blue-ray, cannot play mp3/mp4 media and has barely any apps that are worth using. The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine. The front screen is a fucking mess because they didn't bother to allow the use of folders. I could go on. As for this nonsense about about them staying the course, that's not good enough. They got away with it on the PS3 because it was a free service. Now they expect people to actually pay, that just won't fly anymore.
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Well you pay for the online and free* games not for the software I suppose. Not saying that everything is all rosy in PS4 land. It is a shame they changed software and hardware stacks (through necessity) and now have to reinvent the wheel on a lot of PS3 features... Sony's just quite a bit slower is all (clearly some kind of waterfall method)... They do eventually deliver though (where they can)... PS3 of today is nothing like the original (ahhh ... closing the game to read messages... Good times!)

The store is as terrible as it was on the PS3. When I switch a game off I can't access it at all without either waiting for 5-10 minutes or resetting the machine.
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Sounds like you have a broken PS4 :/ The store has a little judder but nothing compared to the mess it is on PS3. Closing the game takes 5 - 10 minutes? You should still be in warranty to get a replacement.
 
Steroyd said:
The irony is that Nintendo had the ambassador program for early adopters and Sony offered free games to everyone who had a PSN account at the time of the hack.

I'm aware my reply in context of what I bolded from the quote is different from what you're saying, but the sentence after what I bolded MS should be doing that anyway to attract all kinds of gamers to their system regardless, they should by all accounts be aware that they didn't finish off Sony when they were at their weakest and let them catch up and surpass them.
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I agree with all of what you said :) They should be doing it regardless. I suppose I should've stipulated this is the best case scenario I expect from MS based on previous history.
 
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