Support NeoGAF

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Wow.

It was funny as hell but I agree. Jeebus Cwist dude.

So companies should just build all of their products by consensus?

Great products are built with singular vision despite the overwhelming din of naysayers. In 2004 the iPod Mini launched and according to nearly every tech fan-boy it was a colossal mistake and would be an absolute financial disaster. Thousands of posts, almost all negative right here. No one could even imagine why anyone would want to give up storage space for size.

No one owes you anything. MS, Sony, and Nintendo should lead by having a vision and sticking to it, not listening to the ravings of superfans.

You're right, but these sort of things require balance. Companies have to balance their innovative drives with consumer input, or at least need to make it clear to consumers why a product's innovations are worth it.

MS screwed up because, even if they had advantages with their super-digital vision, they absolutely failed to sell them to gamers. They couldn't explain their way out of a paper bag with these things and were ultimately forced to betray their vision.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

2) People who saw no value in Kinect and thought the console wasn't worth $499 but they bought it anyway. These people are called schmucks and screwed themselves.

I guess companies can do no wrong with you. Poor "schmucks" who were just trying to make a decision based on the information available....

If you don't think something is worth $499, do you pay $499 for it? Or do you wait for a price drop?

Cause the former course of action is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.

 

[gioGAF]

Of course it does, if Nintendo or Sony could have pushed the same agenda as the xbone and been successful, do you think they would not? They all want more control of the content and more money. People seemed to have forgotten the 599 ps3 that sony thought all would flock too.

I don't get all this 599 PS3 trolling. PS3 Sony is not even in the same league as Xbone MS. Sony (PS3) misread the market and said stupid things just like MS (Xbone) has done. However, Sony did not actively try to bend you over with ridiculous anti-consumer policies and a myriad of lies about their product.

 

[Sayter]

Just put out some games that I want to play and we'll call it even.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

The Division the Xbox is in has Surface and Windows Phone in it. That division is profitable. You think Surface and Windows Phone are making money?

Windows Phone makes tons of money due to the patents Microsoft holds which companies like Google pay licensing fees on.

Let's be real. Microsoft essentially bought their way into the home console market thanks to its mountains of cash earned through a total monopoly on the OS market. They already had the office, and the home office, and they wanted a piece of the living room. First they tried Microsoft @home, which was a tv internet service which was complete shit and thus failed in spectacular fashion.

So they decided that a game console was the next best way to shoehorn their brand into the living room. This, despite the fact that Microsoft's best known games up to that point were Solitaire, Minesweeper, and Flight Simulator. First, they fail to buy Nintendo, so we got the Xbox. Then, because they still need games, they bought one of the most notable and respected Mac game developers, Bungie, and Nintendo's biggest 2nd party Rare, to provide hits for them. They lost about a billion dollars every year of the OG Xbox's lifespan, but stayed the course because they have mountains of cash and because the Xbox brand gives the company some clout with the 18-35 crowd.

They made a little headway with the Xbox 360 (still losing a billion here, a billion there), but having lost Bungie and run Rare into the ground, they think the best thing to do is to put all kinds of draconian DRM into the console and force everyone to buy their shitty non-working peripheral, only to backpedal due to extreme blowback from their customer base. And this is the company you are defending? A company who's console would have gone the way of the Jaguar, 3D0, etc had it not been for Microsoft's need to expand into the living room, and its willingness to throw endless amounts of cash at it?

 

[Dragonborn]

He also said...

"Not once did Phil Spencer (Xbox Head) say "oh sorry about lying to the early adopters. sorry about lying to the developers who supported Kinect. never has Microsoft said 'sorry for treating us like fucking idiots over it DRM spin-doctoring'. ultimately, until we get that there's no way I'm inclined to feel 'grateful' for the recent 'favors' Microsoft is doing us."

Agreed! I jumped the Xbox ship after Microsoft decided to treat gamers like pieces of shit (8+ years XBL member, owned every MS console). I won't be back for a while, if ever.

I don't understand why Phil Spencer didn't just take some time to apologize publicly at E3. It would go a long way, I think. After the PSN fiasco, Sony took time out to apologize and I think that really helped them turn things around, PR wise.

 

[Lynn616]

Windows Phone makes tons of money due to the patents Microsoft holds which companies like Google pay licensing fees on.

Let's be real. Microsoft essentially bought their way into the home console market thanks to its mountains of cash earned through a total monopoly on the OS market. They already had the office, and the home office, and they wanted a piece of the living room. First they tried Microsoft @home, which was a tv internet service which was complete shit and thus failed in spectacular fashion.

So they decided that a game console was the next best way to shoehorn their brand into the living room. This, despite the fact that Microsoft's best known games up to that point were Solitaire, Minesweeper, and Flight Simulator. First, they fail to buy Nintendo, so we got the Xbox. Then, because they still need games, they bought one of the most notable and respected Mac game developers, Bungie, and Nintendo's biggest 2nd party Rare, to provide hits for them. They lost about a billion dollars every year of the OG Xbox's lifespan, but stayed the course because they have mountains of cash and because the Xbox brand gives the company some clout with the 18-35 crowd.

They made a little headway with the Xbox 360 (still losing a billion here, a billion there), but having lost Bungie and run Rare into the ground, they think the best thing to do is to put all kinds of draconian DRM into the console and force everyone to buy their shitty non-working peripheral, only to backpedal due to extreme blowback from their customer base. And this is the company you are defending? A company who's console would have gone the way of the Jaguar, 3D0, etc had it not been for Microsoft's need to expand into the living room, and its willingness to throw endless amounts of cash at it?

The Android patents are not in the Windows Phone hardware division.

Devices and Consumer Hardware (XBox hardware)
Devices and Consumer Other (XBox software)
Commercial Licensing (Android Patents)

Also, we have zero idea how much MS makes on those patents.

 

[Trey]

They made a little headway with the Xbox 360 (still losing a billion here, a billion there), but having lost Bungie and run Rare into the ground, they think the best thing to do is to put all kinds of draconian DRM into the console and force everyone to buy their shitty non-working peripheral, only to backpedal due to extreme blowback from their customer base. And this is the company you are defending? A company who's console would have gone the way of the Jaguar, 3D0, etc had it not been for Microsoft's need to expand into the living room, and its willingness to throw endless amounts of cash at it?

I definitely agree that MS needs to cultivate some first party talent. They're no longer the software leader and only have a few first party franchises (huge ones, mind) to fall back on.

 

[Ajax35]

It seems kind of petty to shit all over Microsoft just for not apologizing explicitly. Should Phil Spencer say "sorry?" Maybe. But who really cares? The important thing is that Microsoft listened to the market and did some desperately-needed 180s. I know it wasn't out of the goodness of their corporate heart or anything, so if you want to say it isn't praiseworthy I guess that's fair, but it's sure as hell not criticism-worthy either.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Meh.

Literally a "never forget" post in the form of a video? Okay.

This video sounds like a fanboy war post.

As far as I've seen, the most actual praise I've seen MS get is from their consistent update support, a supercharged consumer feedback effort (which is helping said update support) and the fact that they're focusing on great gaming.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I definitely agree that MS needs to cultivate some first party talent. They're no longer the software leader and only have a few first party franchises (huge ones, mind) to fall back on.

Microsoft was never the software leader. Halo is big (we'll see how big later this year, based on how the Xbone does once the Halo collection is out) but other than that they have what... Gears? And I don't think Epic is even making the new one.

Also, we have zero idea how much MS makes on those patents.

How convenient, also convenient of them to obfuscate the Xbox division's losses by putting it in with their other divisions. But back before they started doing that, we did get some numbers and so we know that the OG Xbox lost billions and that the 360 has too.

 

[Art Vandilay]

I'm personally glad they ditched the original programming, or at least most of it. They should be spending that money on exclusives.

 

[serversurfer]

I'm definitely not praising such an attempt. I'm just glad none of it ever happened and now I have a better console with a lot of great gaming to look forward to. Cheers!

No, it's far worse than that. You're actively supporting the company that made such an attempt, and encouraging others to do the same. Your bad behavior is precisely what allows MS to continue with theirs.

And make no mistake, this is bad behavior from MS, not a simple "PR blunder." They knew this stuff was shady, so they conducted research to determine whether or not they'd be able to get away with it. That research told them their policies would alienate core gamers, but most people weren't informed enough to realize what MS was trying to pull, so they went ahead with it. Think about how fucked up that is.

And this isn't just a one-time mistake from a rogue executive. MS was founded on shady business practices, and it's only through those ill-gotten gains that they could afford to buy a spot in your living room in the first place. They're not just going to suddenly abandon the practices that made them one of most powerful organizations in the world. This wasn't a stunning reversal from a company founded on making gamers happy. It was fait accompli from a company founded on eliminating consumer options so they can be exploited as efficiently as possible.

MS were never here to provide you with awesome games. They've been waiving just enough games under your nose to put themselves in the position to tax all of your entertainment expenditures as they see fit. Once they'd felt they'd established that with the XB360, they basically all but abandoned exclusive game development, and focused their internal efforts on their new DRM scheme and their biometric spy cam. If anything, their real mistake with XBone was in assuming they had existing XB360 owners trapped in much the same fashion as Win-Office users, and those 80M users would serve as a jumping off point for forcing the DRM and camera down everyone else's throat.

It's the leopard showing its spots, again, and leopards don't make good pets.

 

[link4117]

It seems kind of petty to shit all over Microsoft just for not apologizing explicitly. Should Phil Spencer say "sorry?" Maybe. But who really cares? The important thing is that Microsoft listened to the market and did some desperately-needed 180s. I know it wasn't out of the goodness of their corporate heart or anything, so if you want to say it isn't praiseworthy I guess that's fair, but it's sure as hell not criticism-worthy either.

Not that it wouldn't hurt Microsoft though. I agree it's kind of petty, but with any social interaction it certainly leaves a better impression when someone apologizes for what they've done wrong. It boils down to that "treating consumers like idiots" mentality that some companies seem to think they can get away with.

I think his real argument is if you keep letting companies get away with bad practices without them owning up to it, they'll keep trying to pull shit and eventually people will just swallow it and the industry goes down the shitter. Kind of like how we've seen DLC and pre-orders just go bananas lately.

 

[jem0208]

I don't understand why Phil Spencer didn't just take some time to apologize publicly at E3. It would go a long way, I think. After the PSN fiasco, Sony took time out to apologize and I think that really helped them turn things around, PR wise.

Apologise for what? Proposing some policies and then reversing them 5 months before release?

The PSN issue deserves an apology because they actually effected people. It prevented users from accessing a product they paid for. The DRM policies never affected anyone.

 

[link4117]

Apologise for what? Proposing some policies and then reversing them 5 months before release?

The PSN issue deserves an apology because they actually effected people. It prevented users from accessing a product they paid for. The DRM policies never affected anyone.

His point was it would be a good move from a PR standpoint. Like he said, it would definitely restore some good will.

 

[Foffy]

I don't understand why Phil Spencer didn't just take some time to apologize publicly at E3. It would go a long way, I think. After the PSN fiasco, Sony took time out to apologize and I think that really helped them turn things around, PR wise.

Sony apologized because their uh oh was mainstream news. Microsoft doesn't have to apologize because their bi-monthly flip floppery isn't.

 

[alterno69]

MS is learning its lesson the hard way, hard to see the Xbox One recovering and deservedly so, no product built on the foundation the Xbox One was built upon deserves success. It will enjoy decent sales and that's ok, but they don't deserve to be market leaders and i hope they never get there cause then the gaming landscape will look pretty grim IMO. If MS had their way with all the shit they tried to pull with the original Xbox One vision we'd all be screwed.

Best MS is second/third place MS as shown with the original Xbox and Xbox Live vision. By the end of the 360 life we got to see how bad MS could get when in a position of leadership, mainly neglecting the gaming side of their business.

Great video.

 

[Armaros]

Apologise for what? Proposing some policies and then reversing them 5 months before release?

The PSN issue deserves an apology because they actually effected people. It prevented users from accessing a product they paid for. The DRM policies never affected anyone.

People keep bringing up the PSN scandal.


My response: PRISM

Where is MS's apology?

 

[Jimmyfenix]

 

[Steroyd]

Just answer this one question:

Who looks at a games console, says "I don't want half of these features and peripherals and this is terrible value for money" then pulls out their wallet and hands over five hundred bucks for it?

Those who really really like Forza?

 

[Metallix87]

People keep bringing up the PSN scandal.


My response: PRISM

Where is MS's apology?

Why should Microsoft apologize for cooperating with the US government, exactly? Are you comparing the US gov't to criminals and hackers?

 

[jem0208]

People keep bringing up the PSN scandal.


My response: PRISM

Where is MS's apology?

I was merely responding to the poster who brought it up.

 

[Armaros]

Why should Microsoft apologize for cooperating with the US government, exactly? Are you comparing the US gov't to criminals and hackers?

Really? That is some of the most blatant whitewashing of the entire NSA scandal I have seen on this forum.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

No, it's far worse than that. You're actively supporting the company that made such an attempt, and encouraging others to do the same. Your bad behavior is precisely what allows MS to continue with theirs.

And make no mistake, this is bad behavior from MS, not a simple "PR blunder." They knew this stuff was shady, so they conducted research to determine whether or not they'd be able to get away with it. That research told them their policies would alienate core gamers, but most people weren't informed enough to realize what MS was trying to pull, so they went ahead with it. Think about how fucked up that is.

And this isn't just a one-time mistake from a rogue executive. MS was founded on shady business practices, and it's only through those ill-gotten gains that they could afford to buy a spot in your living room in the first place. They're not just going to suddenly abandon the practices that made them one of most powerful organizations in the world. This wasn't a stunning reversal from a company founded on making gamers happy. It was fait accompli from a company founded on eliminating consumer options so they can be exploited as efficiently as possible.

MS were never here to provide you with awesome games. They've been waiving just enough games under your nose to put themselves in the position to tax all of your entertainment expenditures as they see fit. Once they'd felt they'd established that with the XB360, they basically all but abandoned exclusive game development, and focused their internal efforts on their new DRM scheme and their biometric spy cam. If anything, their real mistake with XBone was in assuming they had existing XB360 owners trapped in much the same fashion as Win-Office users, and those 80M users would serve as a jumping off point for forcing the DRM and camera down everyone else's throat.

It's the leopard showing its spots, again, and leopards don't make good pets.

kazboom.gif

 

[kejigoto]

Apologise for what? Proposing some policies and then reversing them 5 months before release?

The PSN issue deserves an apology because they actually effected people. It prevented users from accessing a product they paid for. The DRM policies never affected anyone.

What about apologizing to people who bought the Xbox One at a higher price due to Kinect which is going to end up being useless and barely supported because no one wants it? What about the people who bought the Xbox One looking forward to original programming and the whole TV focus which is now pretty much gone outside of the documentary and the Halo series we've seen nothing on? What about the studios currently developing titles for the Kinect which will now have a significantly reduced audience?

Sure reversing the DRM scheme was a good idea but Microsoft still stood on stage pretending this had to be a thing when in reality it didn't. Apologizing doesn't cost them anything and comes off as better than "We decided to be nice and give you guys the choice of how, when, and where you play your Xbox One because we're just super nice like that."

Moving on.

As for the video itself I agree with many of things Jim said about Microsoft and the Xbox One. Of course my interest in Microsoft's products died about mid way through the last generation when Microsoft didn't grow Xbox Live Gold, support became lackluster, and it became increasing clear gaming wasn't going to be the main focus moving forward. To this day I still haven't really seen anything on the Xbox One (or the PS4 for that matter though I find that line up far more appealing, love me some inFAMOUS) that makes me want to get the console. Even though I know it isn't the mess Microsoft originally showcased I just have no desire to involve myself with the system. Microsoft's core lineup doesn't really get me excited anymore and outside of Crackdown 3 (which we haven't seen any actual gameplay of) there's nothing in their lineup that makes me think "I have to play that."

I'll eventually end up getting a PS4 I'd imagine simply because I like Sony's exclusives more than Microsoft's and I've grown to really love my PS3 over my 360. For now though I'm sticking with my PC, Wii-U, 3DS, and Vita to get my gaming on. Unless Microsoft comes out with something here soon that I can't play on another platform I just don't see myself caring enough to invest in an Xbox One.

 

[meppi]

Apologise for what? Proposing some policies and then reversing them 5 months before release?

The PSN issue deserves an apology because they actually effected people. It prevented users from accessing a product they paid for. The DRM policies never affected anyone.

When I see posts like this it actually makes me wish all the 180s never happened and we got to see what MS really wanted to do instead of all the "we listen to you, so please buy our crap now".
They got tons of backlash and still stuck to their guns till the point that they simply couldn't because the financial outlook brought about by these policies and the consumers reactions to it were not at all what they were expecting.

All that this forgive and forget crap will do is make sure that in the future they will indeed get what they want, but just go about it in another, more clever way.

Sony got a ton of crap for their attitude in the past, rightfully so, and it has made them into a better company. That much is clear.
Defending MS because all those shitty anti-consumer policies that would take away nearly all the rights we have were just an "idea" and never made it into the released product (oh wait, they did and had to be patched out with a day 1 patch!) is only making sure you get a shittier product next time because they will think that they can get away with it.

 

[Game Guru]

Once MS had 180'd on their planned DRM, I stopped my utter hatred of the XB1... However, just because I don't hate it anymore doesn't mean I have to buy it. I was a fence sitter in regards to 360 & PS3 for the longest time, but eventually chose a 360 because I found a deal where I could get it for effectively $99. This time I will get a PS4 because I no longer trust Microsoft anymore. And if PS4 had the same DRM that XB1 was planned to have and neither changed, then I would have not bought either system and instead might have built a Gaming PC. If I have to accept DRM to play the newest games then I'll accept it only with the PC's digital market openness and the PC's backwards compatibility.

 

[sono]

That video was amusing and obviously resonates with a lot of people.

For me the issue is loss of credibility or trust with Microsoft. To say so many things at the launch that were fundamental or an integral part of the system which they then back tracked on means that for me, anything they say today may in fact be completely wrong or misleading.

 

[gioGAF]

No, it's far worse than that. You're actively supporting the company that made such an attempt, and encouraging others to do the same. Your bad behavior is precisely what allows MS to continue with theirs.

And make no mistake, this is bad behavior from MS, not a simple "PR blunder." They knew this stuff was shady, so they conducted research to determine whether or not they'd be able to get away with it. That research told them their policies would alienate core gamers, but most people weren't informed enough to realize what MS was trying to pull, so they went ahead with it. Think about how fucked up that is.

And this isn't just a one-time mistake from a rogue executive. MS was founded on shady business practices, and it's only through those ill-gotten gains that they could afford to buy a spot in your living room in the first place. They're not just going to suddenly abandon the practices that made them one of most powerful organizations in the world. This wasn't a stunning reversal from a company founded on making gamers happy. It was fait accompli from a company founded on eliminating consumer options so they can be exploited as efficiently as possible.

MS were never here to provide you with awesome games. They've been waiving just enough games under your nose to put themselves in the position to tax all of your entertainment expenditures as they see fit. Once they'd felt they'd established that with the XB360, they basically all but abandoned exclusive game development, and focused their internal efforts on their new DRM scheme and their biometric spy cam. If anything, their real mistake with XBone was in assuming they had existing XB360 owners trapped in much the same fashion as Win-Office users, and those 80M users would serve as a jumping off point for forcing the DRM and camera down everyone else's throat.

It's the leopard showing its spots, again, and leopards don't make good pets.

Exactly!

 

[blankempathy]

If you don't think something is worth $499, do you pay $499 for it? Or do you wait for a price drop?

Cause the former course of action is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.

But thats not what we are talking about though. It doesn't matter if the kinect sku xbox one is worth 500 dollars or 600 dollars etc. All that matters is that possibly for the next year or 2 ,according to microsoft, the kinect 500 gb xbox one sku was the only option aside from some games being bundled in.

 

[jem0208]

What about apologizing to people who bought the Xbox One at a higher price due to Kinect which is going to end up being useless and barely supported because no one wants it? What about the people who bought the Xbox One looking forward to original programming and the whole TV focus which is now pretty much gone outside of the documentary and the Halo series we've seen nothing on? What about the studios currently developing titles for the Kinect which will now have a significantly reduced audience?

Sure reversing the DRM scheme was a good idea but Microsoft still stood on stage pretending this had to be a thing when in reality it didn't. Apologizing doesn't cost them anything and comes off as better than "We decided to be nice and give you guys the choice of how, when, and where you play your Xbox One because we're just super nice like that."

Did they forcibly remove the Kinect from us? No. Do the voice commands still work? Yes. Does the IR control still work? Yes! Does automatic sign in and every other advertised feature of the Kinect still work? Yes it does.

Sure, chances are less games are going to support the Kinect now. That is a shame, however very few games seemed to be supporting it even when it was bundled.


This is actually something I agree with. However it is a massive "damned if you do, damned if you don't" Many people were complaining about the focus on TV TV TV and as such this was probably a good move. Others may be upset that they did close the studios down. MS can't win here.



Yes, this is also a shame. However it has little effect on the consumers.

 

[kejigoto]

Did they forcibly remove the Kinect from us? No. Do the voice commands still work? Yes. Does the IR control still work? Yes! Does automatic sign in and every other advertised feature of the Kinect still work? Yes it does.

Sure, chances are less games are going to support the Kinect now. That is a shame, however very few games seemed to be supporting it even when it was bundled.


This is actually something I agree with. However it is a massive "damned if you do, damned if you don't" Many people were complaining about the focus on TV TV TV and as such this was probably a good move. Others may be upset that they did close the studios down. MS can't win here.



Yes, this is also a shame. However it has little effect on the consumers.

Things may still function but there is very few reasons for Microsoft to continue to keep up support for it though is my point. There are a number of studios who are developing games for Kinect and now it is no longer included this means their potential market just shrunk significantly. Part of the reason a studio like Harmonix would take the time to develop a title for Kinect is because majority of what was out there for it isn't that great or interesting to people who aren't looking for a casual mini-game experience.

I'm glad Microsoft reversed their stance on things but it doesn't change the fact that the stood out in front of everyone and lied to us about how crucial Kinect, the DRM, and the TV focus was to the Xbox One. I also can't imagine the lies they've told to development studios in order to get them on board certain things like Kinect.

Making the right steps to fix an issue is a good thing but it doesn't look good when you act like you never made a mistake in the first place. This is like crapping yourself in bed while you're spooning with your significant other, then when they get upset you just act like nothing happened. Finally when they get pissed enough to leave you get up, clean yourself off, change the sheets, then come back to bed expecting everything to be okay and acting like you made cleaned up the mess because you're just cool like that. When you make mistakes you have to own them and not act like they never happened. That's the big issue with Microsoft.

 

[Feindflug]

There's too many people on this website that doesn't know what "arrogance" is when it comes to consumer products. Also, people always conveniently forget the PS1>PS2. I wonder why?

Anyways, let's go over this "arrogance". Someone just to pull this card in the NPD thread so here's a post.


I skipped around a few pages and you're constantly bringing up Sony de-railing the thread and trying to apply your opinion as facts for some strange reason.

Please stop it dude, anyone who has a decent memory remembers quite well how Sony reeked of arrogance and lies at the launch of the PS3.

Hell the PS3 was hyped and launched through a shit load of lies:

"I believe that the Sixaxis controller offers game designers and developers far more opportunity for future innovation than rumble ever did. Now, rumble I think was the last generation feature;" (Phil Harrison, 2007)

"The Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console." (Ken Kutaragi on the design of the competition, 2005)

”Did you see the movie 'The Matrix'? Same interface. Same concept.” (Ken Kutaragi on the online capabilities on the upcoming PS3, 2000)

”Xbox is 1.5, the PS is more than what I was expecting, so it's 3.5. That's the difference." (Ken Kutaragi explains the difference between the PS3 and 360, 2005).

“True generation quality only available on PS3" (Kaz Hirai, explaining how the PS3 ascends past Next Gen, 2007

Then there were the classic CGI trailers at E3 2005 that were "gameplay" and "real time" and of course the backwards compatibility that was too hard to implement in the later PS3 models:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nI15BGscFac#t=226

Interviewer: "Now I know there were some other downloads that were shown there... there was KILLZONE, a lot of people were excited about that. People were wondering though, you know... was some of the stuff real... was it CGI, it looked so good. I mean what was the... what was th since from you. Is.. is there some stuff in there thats just... you know, computers, smoke and mirros?


Jack Tretton: It's definately real, I guess we are pretty good at keeping secrets because the dev kits were out there... the devs kits are pretty intuitive so people did some incredible things. And thats one thing Ted wanted to make sure everyone understood... that is real gameplay that everyone is seeing out there.

"I would like my car to fly and make me breakfast, but that’s an unrealistic expectation." (Jack Tretton’s thoughts on those who expect backwards compatibility in future PS3s, 2007)

Yet they normally sold PS2 titles that had a software based bc solution included just fine.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-ps2-classics-on-ps3

Regardless, we delved into our PS2 game collection, dug out some titles available on the PlayStation Store and ran them on three different PlayStation 3s - our launch debugging station (which runs any PS2 game from any region under full hardware back-compat), an EU launch unit with the hardware graphics synthesizer and emulated Emotion Engine, and finally, a newer PS3 with no hardware support for the older console at all. The latter turned out not to be required at all, so it was quickly disposed of: even if you're running a launch NTSC unit with all the original PS2 hardware contained therein, the PSN downloads still run completely under software emulation.

So yeah please stop trying to portrait Sony as saints.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Does automatic sign in and every other advertised feature of the Kinect still work? Yes it does.

Lamp might disagree with you on that.

 

[LogN]

I still don't understand the fervent backing of the Xbox One in this thread. I got one day one and was and still am horribly dissapointed in the console. They can make good on a myriad of things, but it doesn't change the fact that its a sub par piece of hardware that brought nothing to the table. I'm actually a big supporter of Microsoft and I'm still beyond disappointed with my purchase. While I don't want the system to die forsake of competition,I also have no desire to see it succeed.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Lamp might disagree with you on that.

Twist = Jeff is lamp

 

[Neuromancer]

So companies should just build all of their products by consensus?

Great products are built with singular vision despite the overwhelming din of naysayers. In 2004 the iPod Mini launched and according to nearly every tech fan-boy it was a colossal mistake and would be an absolute financial disaster. Thousands of posts, almost all negative right here. No one could even imagine why anyone would want to give up storage space for size.

No one owes you anything. MS, Sony, and Nintendo should lead by having a vision and sticking to it, not listening to the ravings of superfans.

The problem is, in this case, the Xbox One's singular vision was built around removing consumers' notions of ownership of their property, and expanding a video game box far beyond the role of playing video games, in fact making the playing of video games a tertiary concern after TV TV TV and NFL.

So yeah, it's great they had a vision I guess; it's just too bad that vision was dogshit.

 

[jem0208]

I still don't understand the fervent backing of the Xbox One in this thread. I got one day one and was and still am horribly dissapointed in the console. They can make good on a myriad of things, but it doesn't change the fact that its a sub par piece of hardware that brought nothing to the table. I'm actually a big supporter of Microsoft and I'm still beyond disappointed with my purchase. While I don't want the system to die forsake of competition,I also have no desire to see it succeed.

Personally I think it's a great piece of kit. It succeeds pretty damn well at being an "All in one" entertainment/media hub.


Every single thing I do on my TV goes straight through my Xbox. Want to watch a TV show, switch on the Xbox. Ad break? Snap TV to the side and do a race in Forza. Want to watch a movie? "Xbox go to Netflix" Someone has a phone call mid movie, switch over to Wolfenstein to kill some Nazis then switch straight back when their call is over. Sudden emergency mid game? Switch the Xbox off, come back the next day and boot right back into the game exactly where you left it.


People rag on it all the time because of all the Ps (or lack of thereof), but to me the device is just awesome.

The problem is, in this case, the Xbox One's singular vision was built around removing consumers' notions of ownership of their property, and expanding a video game box far beyond the role of playing video games, in fact making the playing of video games a tertiary concern after TV TV TV and NFL.

So yeah, it's great they had a vision I guess; it's just too bad that vision was dogshit.

1 billion dollars spent on making games kinda ruins this post...

 

[alterno69]

Do the voice commands still work? Yes.
Does automatic sign in and every other advertised feature of the Kinect still work? Yes it does.

No and No

I have to log in manually most of the times cause it doesn't work as advertised. Maybe the conditions in my room aren`t ideal for the sensor but then that's not what they advertised. Voice commands are a pain in the ass, i have to repeat commands for them to be registered.

I'm sorry but even the last gen Kinect had more use when it launched, for one it had a game included and it was at least decent, it had way more support than the current one has six months after launch too.

Basically IR control is the only thing it's really good at atm.

 

[Toki767]

Every single thing I do on my TV goes straight through my Xbox. Want to watch a TV show, switch on the Xbox. Ad break? Snap TV to the side and do a race in Forza. Want to watch a movie? "Xbox go to Netflix" Someone has a phone call mid movie, switch over to Wolfenstein to kill some Nazis then switch straight back when their call is over. Sudden emergency mid game? Switch the Xbox off, come back the next day and boot right back into the game exactly where you left it.

That sounds so much better in words than it does when translating to real life.

 

[Zxrophantom]

Valid points i will give him that if not a bit harsh on Microsoft.

 

[jem0208]

That sounds so much better in words than it does when translating to real life.

How so?

Everything works damn near perfectly on my end. The occasional missed voice command is the only issue I ever get. Everything else is pretty slick.

 

[Suzushiiro]

And to be fair, he did do a video bashing on Sony a while back, it just focused on the Vita.

 

[Neuromancer]

1 billion dollars spent on making games kinda ruins this post...

How many billions did they spend on making an always online DRM box with TV TV TV capability? Unfortunately Phil Spencer didn't share that with us so we'll never know.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

And to be fair, he did do a video bashing on Sony a while back, it just focused on the Vita.

Yup!

 

[EGM1966]

That video was amusing and obviously resonates with a lot of people.

For me the issue is loss of credibility or trust with Microsoft. To say so many things at the launch that were fundamental or an integral part of the system which they then back tracked on means that for me, anything they say today may in fact be completely wrong or misleading.

Exactly. It's something that can happen in any industry but seems particularly an issue with video game consoles.

In the end a number of people bought the vision MS marketed and some of them got burned in terms of features that likely won't be fully realized anymore.

To a lesser extent same thing happened with PS3 when full BC vanished and features like card reader slots were pulled.

The XB1 is probably more damning as the PS3 changes coincided with region releases and due to their nature worked for those lucky enough to get them (not sure if that's still the case today but certainly my Fat card readers and BC kept working until I simply want using them) whereas the XB1 changes have occurred post purchase for many and do affect future outlook (for exple baring a miracle Kinect games will likely be thin on the ground now).

The lesson is don't buy if most of what you're buying is a future promise - if you just want the games and evetything else is a bonus then sure why not, but if you really wanted the Kinect / TV vision it would have been better to wait until it was shown to be robust and delivering.

In the end I don't blame MS for changing to survive and I don't even feel they need to apologise either - but I do hope the gaming market has learnt a lesson in taking launch messages and PR for some amazing future with a little more healthy caution.

 

[cyber_ninja]

All I know is that Xbox won't be getting any of my money in any shape or form.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I don't understand why Phil Spencer didn't just take some time to apologize publicly at E3. It would go a long way, I think. After the PSN fiasco, Sony took time out to apologize and I think that really helped them turn things around, PR wise.

They're not going to apologize because in their mind they did nothing wrong. Remember that we're the ones who didn't buy into their horrible future vision. Really, the apology should be from us.

 

[kinoki]

I agree with Jim's thinking but I'm not mad about it. This is just a greedy company showing their true colours. The "vision" for Xbone has been demolished. The only losers are the consumers. This is competition at its best.

I'd like to believe that Microsoft has learned their lesson that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. If the next generation of consoles brings a Microsoft that's actually trying to be nice we'll have a great generation. Now it's just a matter of making the best with what they've got and they're doing "okay".