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[LNBL]

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Or how about that quote from the lady who is an elected official and active law maker in the Israeli government?

Here we go (from a previous thread):

http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/07/israeli-mp-mothers-of-all-palestinians-must-be-killed/

From Ayelet Shaked:

"Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

It's telling that this didn't make it to any kind of mainstream media. This would be fucking plastered all over Fox News if a Hamas official said it, and they'd have roudtable after roundtable discussing it. Instead, they ignore the recent and constant statements of elected Israeli officials and members of gvt condoning mass palestinian genocide, and keeps parroting a statement from Hamas' charter 26 years ago in order to defend everything Israel is doing. How vile.

 

[dripdripsplash]

I addressed general empathy by pointing out that there are conflicts going on all the time, but these gangs only focused on the Palestinian one. If it was a question of general empathy, why not burn down Egyptian stores or buildings owned by Syrians? So it's not merely empathy, it's specifically related to this conflict.

Now there could be some notion of pan-Arabism, which of course is hilarious due to the fact that the Arabs themselves were imperialists into the areas of North Africa that the immigrants likely came from.

You may not, but I do see a problem with otherwise arbitrary religious bonds. The religion leads people into frenzied "righteous" vengeance over problems that happen worlds away.

You're completely wrong. You're equating an religious bond with an violent frenzy as soon as a conflict arises in a place where other "brothers/sisters" are getting targeted. This is not true and only stands to show your blind hate against Islam/religion.

Religious unity and bonds also lead to massive campaigns for support, money-raising, calls for empathy and unity to those in need. Huge containers, freaking ambulances, hundreds if not thousands of black bags of clothes and other necessities are sent each week and month by danish muslims to the people of Syria for example.

Massive campaigns of money-raising has already started and been sent in the last weeks for Gaza.

You just try to paint it as jihadists being the only thing religious-unity exports.

You hate religion. We get it. Just don't lie or try to fit things into your own narrative.

You didn't comment on the fact that people all over the world also has protested. Many non-muslims too.

EDIT: Imperialism is not how the North-Africans saw it throughout the ages of Islamic Empires.

I am not trying to be condescending in any way but I seriously reccomend you to read a history book about pan-arabic sentiments in the Middle East, or just a wiki page.

Here is a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Arabism

 

[Messofanego]

Targetted killing of civilian in Gaza by sniper: http://youtu.be/sBakqLUBWP0

Video does specify a Israeli soldier though this is not verified.

Wow, it's like out of a horror movie. That drone in the background. Absolutely fucked.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Wow, it's like out of a horror movie. That drone in the background. Absolutely fucked.

Yes. I noticed that. It's an unnerving sound, the sound of possible death.

 

[LNBL]

 

[Slurpy2k20]

This is a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous and why, yes, people should be afraid of Islam. It whips people into a frenzy.

I recall seeing many of your posts in previous threads, throughout the years, and the only thing that remained consisted in which side you choose to cheer is the side that was attacking predominantly Arabs/Muslims, and backing the US and Israel, regardless of circumstance, as well as magnifying isolated incidents regarding any alleged Muslim in order to draw conclusions about the whole religion.

Words like the ones you just stated do show that no matter how much you try to do mental gymnastics to justify things, at the end of the day, you're simple a bigot. Fear Islam? I've met with, have worked with, and am friends with countless Muslims. I've travelled extensively and visited many Muslim countries. Not once have I "feared" any Muslim I've known, or feared Islam as a religion. Your attempts to smear Muslims, and Islam, from the actions of a tiny percentage is disgusting at best.

I imagine someone stating in all seriousness that people should be afraid of Judaism would be banned summarily. Its a despicable statement of hatred and religious division. I would never, EVER attack Judaism itself, or Jews in general- my critisisms have always been towards the Israeli government and those who support and defend it.

But people like you don't make that distinction, and your veiled attempts to justify your opinions based on something other than your hatred of Muslims and Islam is transparent. Shameful.

 

[dripdripsplash]

I recall seeing many of your posts in previous threads, throughout the years, and the only thing that remained consisted in which side you choose to cheer is the side that was attacking predominantly Arabs/Muslims, and backing the US and Israel, regardless of circumstance.

Words like the ones you just stated do show that no matter how much you try to do mental gymnastics to justify things, at the end of the day, you're simple a bigot. Fear Islam? I've met with, have worked with, and am friends with countless Muslims. I've travelled extensively and visited many Muslim countries. Not once have I "feared" any Muslim I've known, or feared Islam as a religion. Your attempts to smear Muslims, and Islam, from the actions of a tiny percentage is disgusting at best.

I imagine someone stating in all seriousness that people should be afraid of Judaism would be banned summarily. Its a despicable statement of hatred and religious division. I would never, EVER attack Judaism itself, or Jews in general- my critisisms have always been towards the Israeli government and those who support and defend it.

But people like you don't make that distinction, and your veiled attempts to justify your opinions based on something other than your hatred of Muslims and Islam is transparent. Shameful.

And the most ironic thing is that he says calls for the end of the use of the word Islamophobe.

Looks like it's exactly what he is.

 

[theignoramus]

Seriously? A bunch of Muslim immigrants burn down a Jewish synagogue while praising Hitler and you're concerned about Islamophobia?

What do you think connects these Arab and North African communities to Palestine? They can't properly integrate into their host countries, so they cling to their religion and some sense of camaraderie with a people a world away.

This is a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous and why, yes, people should be afraid of Islam. It whips people into a frenzy.

It's clear that your agenda here is to shift the conversation about Israel and Palestine into an ugly off topic debate about Muslims and Islam. Please stop.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn...nski-netanyahu-making-a-very-serious-mistake/

 

[Partial Gamification]

Here's the documentary.

http://youtu.be/jQvUZDiYSzc

This was a weird juxtaposition of play and indoctrination. The right to return is made the central lesson of many activities. Not certian on the translation but "the Jews" are painted negatively. One child responds to the question "Who are the Jews:" "they are a gang of infidels and Christians." I thought that I heard Israeli a couple of times but it was always translated Jews (not sure, the lessons could be pounding that vocabulary in).

As far as painting the whole of UNRWA as constructor of "Camp Jihad," I'd consider it a stretch. Seems like UNRWA setup shop and had it run by locals. Still, the message in these lessons (shown) go against some planning assumptions of the UNRWA; namely, Perception of UNRWA neutrality as humanitarian actor is upheld [page 32 of pdf]. They do a lot of work and much of it is done with money from donations.

Financial support to UNRWA has not kept pace with an increased demand for services caused by growing numbers of registered refugees, expanding need, and deepening poverty. As a result, the Agency‘s General Fund (GF), supporting UNRWA’s core activities and 97 per cent reliant on voluntary contributions, has begun each year with a large projected deficit. Currently the deficit stands at US$ 65 million.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/summer-fun-weeks-2013-refugee-children-gaza-begin

Again, I'm curious to see how they respond because it does seem like there is a smear campaign against this agency. The documentary was not fair, it lacked the background of who was running the school at the classroom level and does not mention any of the other efforts done by this agency.

Some kid said, "weapons will accelerate the right of return." all the songs and statements seemed cherry-picked but maybe the school is doing a good job "teaching" these kids over the summer.

The school seems to be going against the Summer Fun Weeks crucial components (not sure if the summer camp in 2014 is related)

Crucially, the Summer Fun Weeks will provide children with a safe place to play, psychological relief from the circumstances in which they live, and most importantly a chance just to be children; free of the adult-sized worries and pressures so prevalent in Gaza. The Summer Fun Weeks will ensure psychosocial support for children at a time when it is most needed, after the recent conflict, providing an opportunity for the children of Gaza to enjoy themselves and learn new skills.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/features/summer-fun-weeks-2013-bringing-fun-children-gaza

I don't like how the right of return is presented to those kids in that documentary.

The MTS identifies four human development goals for Palestine refugees:

To have a long and healthy life
To acquire knowledge and skills
To have a decent standard of living
To enjoy human rights to the fullest extent possible
http://www.unrwa.org/how-you-can-help/how-we-spend-funds/core-programme-budget

I guess one could argue the right to return grants "enjoyment of human rights to the fullest extent possible" but that's a tilted read.


Very curious to see how they respond, or critique the documentary.

 

[Freezie KO]

You're completely wrong. You're equating an religious bond with an violent frenzy as soon as a conflict arises in a place where other "brothers/sisters" are getting targeted. This is not true and only stands to show your blind hate against Islam/religion.

Religious unity and bonds also lead to massive campaigns for support, money-raising, calls for empathy and unity to those in need. Huge containers, freaking ambulances, hundreds if not thousands of black bags of clothes and other necessities are sent each week and month by danish muslims to the people of Syria for example.

Massive campaigns of money-raising has already started and been sent in the last weeks for Gaza.

You just try to paint it as the only thing religious-unity exports is jihadists.

You hate religion. We get it. Just don't lie or try to fit things into your own narrative.

You didn't comment on the fact that people all over the world also has protested. Many non-muslims too.

EDIT: Imperialism is not how the North-Africans saw it throughout the ages of Islamic Empires.

I am not trying to be condescending in any way but I seriously reccomend you to read a history book about pan-arabic sentiments in the Middle East, or just a wiki page.

Here is a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Arabism

I'm aware of the Pan-Arab movements, and you are correct that this nationalism could also be a uniting factor. I'm no fan of nationalism either, but religion has a unique claim on divine authority, which makes causes more righteous anger and backlash. People are more willing to kill and die when they have their gods on their side. Do we not see this with the Israelis who want to expand into "eretz Israel"? Or the suicide bombers of Islamist groups?

Surely, there were protests everywhere. One blocked a street in Los Angeles (which should be a terrorist act on its own). But why did it devolve into violence in Paris? That's the question. And to minimize the role of religion is intellectually dishonest. Because let's be real. A fellow Muslim isn't really your brother. Without religion, he's just another guy you don't know.

As for North Africans, I don't want to go too far off topic, but Islam did not just stroll up to the doorstep and get invited in.

I recall seeing many of your posts in previous threads, throughout the years, and the only thing that remained consisted in which side you choose to cheer is the side that was attacking predominantly Arabs/Muslims, and backing the US and Israel, regardless of circumstance.

Words like the ones you just stated do show that no matter how much you try to do mental gymnastics to justify things, at the end of the day, you're simple a bigot. Fear Islam? I've met with, have worked with, and am friends with countless Muslims. I've travelled extensively and visited many Muslim countries. Not once have I "feared" any Muslim I've known, or feared Islam as a religion. Your attempts to smear Muslims, and Islam, from the actions of a tiny percentage is disgusting at best.

I imagine someone stating in all seriousness that people should be afraid of Judaism would be banned summarily. Its a despicable statement of hatred and religious division. I would never, EVER attack Judaism itself, or Jews in general- my critisisms have always been towards the Israeli government and those who support and defend it.

But people like you don't make that distinction, and your veiled attempts to justify your opinions based on something other than your hatred of Muslims and Islam is transparent. Shameful.

I never once attempted to smear "Muslims." And you can attack Judaism all you want! The fact that you can't distinguish between an idea and human beings is terrifying.

 

[dripdripsplash]

I'm aware of the Pan-Arab movements, and you are correct that this nationalism could also be a uniting factor. I'm no fan of nationalism either, but religion has a unique claim on divine authority, which makes causes more righteous anger and backlash. People are more willing to kill and die when they have their gods on their side. Do we not see this with the Israelis who want to expand into "eretz Israel"? Or the suicide bombers of Islamist groups?

Surely, there were protests everywhere. One blocked a street in Los Angeles (which should be a terrorist act on its own). But why did it devolve into violence in Paris? That's the question. And to minimize the role of religion is intellectually dishonest. Because let's be real. A fellow Muslim isn't really your brother. Without religion, he's just another guy you don't know.

As for North Africans, I don't want to go too far off topic, but Islam did not just stroll up to the doorstep and get invited in.

Why did it NOT turn violent in Denmark ? In Chigaco ? In Los Angeles ? In Kashmir ? In Algerie ? In Morroco ?

You are simply wrong in your assumption that the riots in Paris is because of Islam or them being Muslims. Maybe they're just hoodlums and criminals ? Their Islamic background is NOT the reason for the rioting. I can't believe I have to actually convince you of this.

It's actually a quite offensive thing to say and I can't believe you are getting away with it.

You still haven't answered to the point that religious unity directly is the cause of relief organizations, money-raising, sending of clothes, food, ambulances etc. to places of war.

You are trying to paint it as only violence can be exported with religious unity. A wrong assumption that stands to show how you are trying to twist the facts to play into your narrative of hate/fear of Islam/religion.

EDIT: And we're also de-railing the thread.

 

[zeroOman]

Almost all peace treaties are drawn up by third parties or intermediaries, so I'm not sure I understand your point.


Without a shred of proof?

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

which later it was found not true

u can read and google the headline

Israel's Channel 2 retracts false allegations against @UNRWA. Press release via @ChrisGunness #Gaza #hasbarafail

https://twitter.com/benabyad/status/490898783891644416

 

[TheStruggler]

protests happening in Winnipeg, people are out supporting Israel and then people came out to support Palestine. Currently the Israeli supporters and standing by the human rights museum (irony), and the Palestinian people are across the street shouting back and forth slogans at each other. Police presence just in-case.

 

[GameAddict411]

Seriously? A bunch of Muslim immigrants burn down a Jewish synagogue while praising Hitler and you're concerned about Islamophobia?

What do you think connects these Arab and North African communities to Palestine? They can't properly integrate into their host countries, so they cling to their religion and some sense of camaraderie with a people a world away.

This is a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous and why, yes, people should be afraid of Islam. It whips people into a frenzy.

Wow... I am seriously surprised that I could read something like this on a civilized forum. There is so much hate, selective arguing and misconception its staggering.

 

[Freezie KO]

EDIT: And we're also de-railing the thread.

You're right. We should have one of those... um... cease fire thingies?

 

[Messofanego]

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn...nski-netanyahu-making-a-very-serious-mistake/

So, there really is no evidence that Hamas killed those 3 Israeli kids?

 

[Exokell]

The irony is crazy, history is just a big joke. And its not funny. Middle east will eventually do something.

 

[dripdripsplash]

You're right. We should have one of those... um... cease fire thingies?

Sure. I'd still like to hear your response to my last post though.

 

[Pilgor]

As far as painting the whole of UNRWA as constructor of "Camp Jihad," I'd consider it a stretch. Seems like UNRWA setup shop and had it run by locals.

I certainly agree, I suspect UNRWA has limited control of the day-to-day operations.

 

[Freezie KO]

Sure. I'd still like to hear your response to my last post though.

I PMed so as not to derail into an debate about religion.

 

[TheStruggler]

bbc world news america just blamed Hammas for the hospital bombardment.....wtf

"Israeli woman who aids the military said they do not want to kill civilians and its not their agenda"......uhh

 

[Sayah]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

 

[SniperHunter]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

 

[wsippel]

bbc world news america just blamed Hammas for the hospital bombardment.....wtf

"Israeli woman who aids the military said they do not want to kill civilians and its not their agenda"......uhh

Maybe the IDF just sucks really, really bad at its job. That would actually explain a lot of those "accidents" - Hanlon's Razer and all...

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah, I wonder why Israel become fearful and oppressive when they elected Hamas officials.

Weird.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"

Yeah I would probably say that about the group of people who were trying to kick my family and I from our homes too.

 

[TheStruggler]

the media coverage of this has bee absolutely appalling. Roughly 450 civilians killed and they get 10 second mention in the news, and Israeli solider ends up being killed their is a story about it for 2-4 minutes, my god. I understand a loss is a loss an tragic but my god the coverage is horrible and completely one sided.

 

[Zaph]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

No words. Wish I had the ability to give them a life they deserve.

 

[imtehman]

the media coverage of this has bee absolutely appalling. Roughly 450 civilians killed and they get 10 second mention in the news, and Israeli solider ends up being killed their is a story about it for 2-4 minutes, my god. I understand a loss is a loss an tragic but my god the coverage is horrible and completely one sided.

is this not an indictment that the media is controlled?

 

[RustyNails]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

I am fucked up now. Quick pilgore, post a driveby story about french riots.

 

[phalestine]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

Man

 

[effzee]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

I made the mistake of reading the replies. Careless bigots calling their dad a terrorist.

I have to just avoid all the stories and pictures of the kids dying. Can't take it.

 

[Partial Gamification]

I am fucked up now. Quick pilgore, post a driveby story about french riots.

Come on, that's not warranted. There are things that are fundamental disagreements but here, these kids holding their mom's purse in a hospital waiting room where the wait to see her again will never end is beyond words of remorse and pain. Look at their faces in that photo. It inspires baiting pilgore? You are better than that, we all are.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Seeing stuff like this... I just can't consider Isreal a first world country anymore, you know?

 

[Yazan]

I'm aware of the Pan-Arab movements, and you are correct that this nationalism could also be a uniting factor. I'm no fan of nationalism either, but religion has a unique claim on divine authority, which makes causes more righteous anger and backlash. People are more willing to kill and die when they have their gods on their side. Do we not see this with the Israelis who want to expand into "eretz Israel"? Or the suicide bombers of Islamist groups?

Surely, there were protests everywhere. One blocked a street in Los Angeles (which should be a terrorist act on its own). But why did it devolve into violence in Paris? That's the question. And to minimize the role of religion is intellectually dishonest. Because let's be real. A fellow Muslim isn't really your brother. Without religion, he's just another guy you don't know.

As for North Africans, I don't want to go too far off topic, but Islam did not just stroll up to the doorstep and get invited in.



I never once attempted to smear "Muslims." And you can attack Judaism all you want! The fact that you can't distinguish between an idea and human beings is terrifying.

One reason for that: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

 

[Vire]

Seeing stuff like this... I just can't consider Isreal a first world country anymore, you know?

I guess the United States isn't a first world country either with all the drone strikes killing innocent civilians.

2,400 confirmed civilians have been killed in the last five years. Russia just shot down a god damn civilian boeing. The entire world is fucked.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

is this not an indictment that the media is controlled?

The Jewish lobby in Washington is too strong. No doubt they hold significant power over the media corporations as well.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I guess the United States isn't a first world country either with all the drone strikes killing innocent civilians.

2,400 confirmed civilians have been killed in the last five years. Russia just shot down a god damn civilian boeing. The entire world is fucked.

Please. I live in the American South. I have never considered the US to be a real first world country.

The Jewish lobby in Washington is too strong. No doubt they hold significant power over the media corporations as well.

A lot of religious Americans support Isreal as well; it needs to exist, as its annihilation is one of the harbingers of the End Times. And, from a military perspective, Isreal is probably America's most valuable client state.

 

[TheStruggler]

also just an fyi I was talking about the Canadian media, they pretty much have neglected the Palestinians, from when I have been watching.

 

[Partial Gamification]

The Jewish lobby in Washington is too strong. No doubt they hold significant power over the media corporations as well.

Its more influence than power, as with any lobby group. Part of it is a fraternity between the US and Israel, and the US is somewhat honor bound through its bilateral agreements. Israel is one of our largest customers when it comes to being the largest supplier of weapons to the World and so there are interest in Israel that extend beyond the Israelis and a sense of brotherhood between States. Part of it is white faces in the middle east, its ingrained to a general extent within the dominant culture. Bring the regional politics into the equation and the relationship is strengthened.

There is a lack of accountability that can be corrected; its not the end of the World.

 

[LNBL]

bbc world news america just blamed Hammas for the hospital bombardment.....wtf

"Israeli woman who aids the military said they do not want to kill civilians and its not their agenda"......uhh

The laws of war place obligations on all parties to ensure that the wounded and sick receive medical care. Hospitals have special legal protections and may be attacked only if being used to commit acts harmful to the enemy. Israeli claims that armed groups were launching rockets 100 meters from the hospital was insufficient justification for repeatedly striking the hospital. The warnings did not remedy the illegality of repeatedly striking a hospital without a lawful military justification. The fact that Israel used accurate missiles, as well as direct tank fire, yet still struck the hospital, suggests intentional or reckless attacks on the hospital, which are war crimes.

Hospitals have special protections under the laws of war. While other presumptively civilian structures become military objectives if they are being used for a military purpose, hospitals only lose their protection from attack if they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy. Attacks intended for military targets near a hospital would still need to be conducted in a manner that were not indiscriminate or did not cause disproportionate harm to the hospital or its patients. Israel has not provided enough information about the target to justify such damage to the hospital. Israeli forces repeatedly warned hospital staff to evacuate since July 11, but issuing warnings did not remedy the illegality of repeatedly striking a hospital without a lawful military justification.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/22/gaza-airstrike-deaths-raise-concerns-ground-offensive

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

This media coverage has made me upset. It is like they think Palestinian lives aren't worth anything!

 

[Slurpy2k20]

protests happening in Winnipeg, people are out supporting Israel and then people came out to support Palestine. Currently the Israeli supporters and standing by the human rights museum (irony), and the Palestinian people are across the street shouting back and forth slogans at each other. Police presence just in-case.

LOL, I'm in Winnipeg. Was @ Gaza rally on Sat. It was also held @ the "Human Rights" Museum. Looks like the Israeli supporters are being rained on right now. What a shame.

 

[Dai101]

This media coverage has made me upset. It is like they think Palestinian lives aren't worth anything!

They're worth anything even in their own land. Fucked up situation all around.

 

[TheStruggler]

This media coverage has made me upset. It is like they think Palestinian lives aren't worth anything!

i concur im going to stay away from the media even this thread for a while. I have been watching since this has started and it has taken me to a dark place, i feel down the majority of the time its just to much with the deaths of women, children, men etc. , I know what your thinking first world problems what do i have to complain about but the situation is horrendous. The world is idle and doing nothing and its pissing me off

 

[TheStruggler]

LOL, I'm in Winnipeg. Was @ Gaza rally on Sat. It was also held @ the "Human Rights" Museum. Looks like the Israeli supporters are being rained on right now. What a shame.

how was the rally on sat I wanted to go but was busy

 

[theignoramus]

I try to stay away from political topics but this is too much.

https://twitter.com/palinoia/status/490861839841234944

unbelievably sad image

 

[Slurpy2k20]

how was the rally on sat I wanted to go but was busy

Was great, good speakers, 100% peaceful, no counter-protestors, media said around 400 people. I've stopped going to rallies for a long time (because I think they're essentially useless) but thought I'd show up to this one to add a +1.

 

[RustyNails]

Come on, that's not warranted. There are things that are fundamental disagreements but here, these kids holding their mom's purse in a hospital waiting room where the wait to see her again will never end is beyond words of remorse and pain. Look at their faces in that photo. It inspires baiting pilgore? You are better than that, we all are.

Sorry, I got carried away. Yes I got the same emotional response as you did, but these exact horrors of war drive me to be more passionate about the freedom of Palestinians. I get more annoyed when people do "LOOK, Muslims are burning synagogues in a country thousands of miles away" when the thread is about military aggression in Gaza and we already have a thread about the protests in France.