Probably after you made this post
Jimquisition (July 21) - The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I think it's patently in worse hands.
Like Halo is now with 343, and Killer Instinct has been thrown into the hands of some unknown developer at the last minute. It doesn't give you any confidence in the products.
That's not how you do it, MS.
I never said that their 1st party portfolio is equivalent to Sony or Nintendo's but they certainly have the means to bring original games to the system whether it has to involve a 1st party studio or 3rd party which doesn't really matter since I hardly saw many complaints about that with the original Xbox's library.
With regards to acquiring studios, Twisted Pixel and Press Play are the newest that they've gotten relatively speaking. Anyway, veering more towards the topic given all the changes the Xbox division's been through I'm not really surprised a lot of the stuff has been dropped or altered since the reveal given that Don's not there anymore and a few other big execs.
Despite all the sea changes, Xbox One suffers for relatively weak hardware since it's now positioned for purposes it wasn't originally designed for. PS4 has always been a game machine first, but still pales compared to a solid gaming PC.
Steve wounded MS with the buyout of Nokia and Windows 8 disaster. He was too busy screwed up in other sectors to pay attention to xbox.
My Xbox doesn't have a Kinect but I don't see what TV integration is lost other than original programming, although the halo thing is still on and the Every Street United series was great.y Xbox is currently the main focus of my TV. My cable goes through it and it has all the media apps I need minus crunchyroll and it's done a heck of a job of doing that while also playing games just fine. I can see you aren't much of a fan of the console which is fine, but saying it feels half baked is inaccurate and rather baseless.
I can't even remotely relate to this video.
The Xbox One might have a laundry list of problems, but the simple fact that the product as it currently stands is drastically improved over both their proposed vision and how it launched is a good thing for me, period. I simply can't be arsed to give a shit why or how it got here. It's better, and I'm thankful, and I just want to play games.
The Xbox One might have a laundry list of problems, but the simple fact that the product as it currently stands is drastically improved over both their proposed vision and how it launched is a good thing for me, period. I simply can't be arsed to give a shit why or how it got here. It's better, and I'm thankful, and I just want to play games.
It wasn't actually confirmed until just before E3 I thought.
Anyway, the point remains that it was a short amount of time and was still reversed over 5 months before the release of the console.
And I know full well that if pre orders had been higher they wouldn't have reversed it but I don't see the problem in that. Enough hypothetical people still wanted the console, why would that be an issue?
I personally never had a problem with the original policies, they wouldn't have affected me.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Well, when you said "all the great exclusives coming this year" I thought you meant more than 4 games, one of which is a compilation of older titles, and another which is simply more characters for a fighting game that debuted at launch.
My point was that regardless of whether or not YOU think it is a good idea (you stated that you don't want them bother going down that path) it is HIGHLY likely that MS is already working on a VR solution as we speak.
Halo 4's a divisive game but I wouldn't say it's in worse hands just based on one game (that I liked!), and Iron Galaxy is a known developer who's worked on fighting games so it's not like they're giving it to some indy upstart studio.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
As a game machine, it does look that way.
What else conclusion can you come to when it costs the same as a rival platform that is significantly more powerful?
Fiddling around with the insides to remove the Kinect processing drain on the console also smacks of half measures. Why do that less than 5 months on the market?
What kind of vision do we have for the console now? Will that be 180'd in due course too?
Ahh playing the semantics game now I see.
I honestly don't care if they do either way, I don't have a horse in that particular race.Uncle Rupee said:
It's not been stripped out though. You can still buy Kinect and the HDMI passthru is still there. It still functions excellently as an entertainment/media hub as well as a games machine.
Syphon Filter
Member
MCC is rerelease and ki is just download content for a launch game.
MCC is a little bit more than just a rerelease.
MCC is the first time Halo 2's been remastered and the overall package has extensive multiplayer additions. KI Season 2 isn't just DLC characters, it adds new stages, fixes, and rebalances the game so it's a significant change to the game.
Considering the Xbox One plays games just like the other console and the fact that it offers different experience and a different console experience(if you want to take advantage of what else the console offers, which I wrap ally do which is why it's my main console at the moment and my ps4 remains waiting for Driveclub), I'm still not seeing what's half baked about it. It not being as powerful as the ps4 =/= half baked.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I wouldn't have to if you weren't speaking in hyperboles
I didn't know that opinions were viewed as such.
Droopaloop
Banned
I understand that. It's why I feel people putting trust in a company is somewhat short sited. Sure, sometimes they make changes that benefit the consumer; but it's not for the sake of the consumers.
Heh I'm not real sure at the point I'm trying to make. I guess I just don't feel like a corporate apology wouldn't change anything on how I view Xbox when I view them as a corporate machine and not on a personal basis.
I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at.
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
Both the XBOne and Ps4 make for shitty entertainment/media hubs. The promise is there, but they both shipped woefully lacking in features and software.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
It's simple.
It was built half media box with Kinect and half console. MS even shamelessly announced right before their 180 that Kinect is integral to the XB1 experience and couldn't be experienced properly without it.
So they drop Kinect and are now just trying to sell it as a 'powerful' games console, because there sure as hell isn't any noteworthy Kinect software to play on it even if you were still interested in that.
So when you have half the design philosophy dropped from the machine, for all intents and purposes, what you have left feels like a half-measure. A games machine that wasn't designed to be one 100% from the start. Somethings missing now. It offers a similar package to its rival but its weaker from a processing POV. There is a legacy for why that is in the design of the thing. Somethings missing. Why's it so big for a games console? Some functionality or need that was there before is gone now.
It all feels rather...half-baked.
Syphon Filter
Member
its still halo 2 .and for ki that is still content,not a new game.
That's nice, but I wasn't referring to last gen. I'm talking about the current one.
Seems to me the Ps2 did just fine against the Xbox.
Sorry for misinterpreting. You said "Games will always be an area of subjectivity", so I assumed that it meant you were saying hardware's differences being rather objective was perpetual as well. But yeah, Xbone/Ps4 being mostly apples to apples with the same CPU/GPU vendor definitely cuts out some of the junk debates.
KernelPanic
Member
Good comments but what's the point?
they had a vision that no one seemed to want and MS clearly had to adjust.
What's the point of sticking to a vision few people are interested in?
Consumers spoke and they had to change. Their original vision seemed to benefit them more than the consumer anyway.
they had a vision that no one seemed to want and MS clearly had to adjust.
What's the point of sticking to a vision few people are interested in?
Consumers spoke and they had to change. Their original vision seemed to benefit them more than the consumer anyway.
This old chestnut again?
The PS2 launched a full 18 months before Xbox and GameCube.
The PS2 was also one of the first affordable DVD solutions on the market, enhancing its attractiveness to videophiles who could give a shit about gaming, resulting in even better sales.
Context trumps canards every time.
unapersson
Member
To me the whole thing seemed like Microsoft doing business as usual. The XBox kind of started out as it's own thing, slightly independent with its own branding. Then it became big enough for the corporate branch of Microsoft to notice so they started working on how they could leverage the brand into other areas. It was bought more in line with Microsoft branding and policies, whereas before the Microsoft brand played second fiddle to that of the XBox. Becoming the gatekeeper to TV by overlaying their content all over it, finding a way to draw profit from the used content market, tying Xbox to their cloud platform rather than their competitors. It's a similar pattern to what they've played out with Windows client/server in the past.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I'm not attempting to justify the Xbox One being underpowered when it came out the same holiday season as the Ps4. I don't think it is justified, and I'm certainly not happy about it.
I was simply trying to say that a less powerful console without a novel input device to differentiate it (the Wii) can still bill itself first and foremost as a place to play good games. As the Ps2 did for the majority of it's lifespan.
Mike Works
Member
Has anyone pointed out how immensely ironic nomis's avatar is considering he's debating the internal specs of the Xbox?
Okay okay you got me, MCC and KI Season 2 will not actually be Xbox One exclusives.
And I'm saying that throwing out 'PS2 did okay against Xbox' as if they launched on equal footing is doing the argument an injustice at best and purposefully dissembling at worst.
It's like bragging about winning the 400 meter against the pack without mentioning that I had a 200 meter head start.
It's like bragging about winning the 400 meter against the pack without mentioning that I had a 200 meter head start.
Are you deriving this by presuming the context of my last couple posts? Because despite what they might make it look like, I never actually debated the specs of anything at all.
I genuinely didn't mean to give them false equivalence. This is what the guy said...
...and my thought was that if you remove disliking Microsoft's PR 180s from the equation, you're left with a console that is kinda like the Ps4 but considerably weaker. For the vast majority of it's lifespan, the Ps2 wasn't being primarily sold as one of the first affordable DVD players, it was being sold as a games machine that was kind of like an Xbox, but it was weaker. Yet it still outsold the original Xbox year over year because they did good with exclusives. Hopefully Microsoft can salvage the console they have and make it successful as a games machine first, despite the power gap, and not just write it off so we can all buy an Xbox Two.
My "Ps2 did okay" quip also wasn't meant to imply that I thought the Xbox One was poised to "win the gen" in a Ps2-like fashion. No head start and all that. I'm just trying to be optimistic that their output of games can ensure Microsoft doesn't do something I don't want like selling off the entire division.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
It seems to me that they read the thread title and felt the urge to defend it (XBO), w/o paying attention to the OP.
CarbonByGravity
Member
Is has already.
PS NOW is absolutely something that MS should have came out with before Sony given that they're the ones that talked most about cloud gaming.
Syphon Filter
Member
i never said that.just that a rerelease is not a new game and content for an existing game is not either.
Mike Works
Member
It's a Se7en joke, dude...
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Xbone is definitely not the console Microsoft originally planned it to be.
But now it's just trying to catch up with PS4 by trying to be like the PS4. Unfortunately, for Microsoft, that strategy won't work for them, especially when their game output is significantly slower than PS4's.
But now it's just trying to catch up with PS4 by trying to be like the PS4. Unfortunately, for Microsoft, that strategy won't work for them, especially when their game output is significantly slower than PS4's.
Earthanoid
Member
IMO Microsoft's main problem is that they don't know how to shut up. I don't think they necessarily need to apologize publicly (though it'd be nice). They just need to stop talking about the cloud, or how their vision is awesome but the consumer isn't ready for it yet, or whatever half-truth they seem to spout every other week and get called out on. They just need to be quiet, hype up the stuff they're doing right (like the regular updates) and focus on making their product better.
The 180 thing is an old joke by now, people would forget about it given enough time but they keep bringing it up again.
To be fair, this isn't a bad idea. In fact, if they'd been able to implement it well, it would've been pretty awesome. If they were able to leverage the TV aspect, plus try to leverage other tech they have and try to get some synnergy going with Windows 8 and Windows Phone, it could've been great. Unfortunately, they didn't execute well.
The 180 thing is an old joke by now, people would forget about it given enough time but they keep bringing it up again.
To be fair, this isn't a bad idea. In fact, if they'd been able to implement it well, it would've been pretty awesome. If they were able to leverage the TV aspect, plus try to leverage other tech they have and try to get some synnergy going with Windows 8 and Windows Phone, it could've been great. Unfortunately, they didn't execute well.
Again, context matters. The PS2 started with a ~10m headstart over the Xbox before it launched in the US, and an even larger lead by the time the system was rolled out globally. It was DOA in Japan, and had to have immediate price cuts in Europe. The Gamecube was, well, the Gamecube. Of course it was going to do well with exclusives - in much of the world they were pretty much the only game in town. The power factor was secondary to the circumstances.
Microsoft is entering this gen with none of the PS2's advantages, with some disadvantages heaped atop it.
crappybannedjunior999999
Banned
What does that even mean?
staticneuron
Member
I think the issue is that they really have reversed on everything they were sticking to their guns for and they didn't do so until the sales numbers. This most likely would not have been as big of an issue if they did this earlier or even before the one launched.
Actually the reason the PS2 trounced the competition was primarily the 18 month head start and the sheer fact that the xbox was entirely new brand to the market. In addition to those who purchased the PS2 as a cheaper DVD player the people purchasing into that generation only had the Dreamcast and the PS2 to choose from. When the DC was shown to lack support from some major third parties that didn't do them any favors. The gap made certain titles exclusive, and because of familiarity and regional differences ( I hear MS first foray into Japan didn't make them alot of friends) this trouncing continued through the gen because of developer choice. The industry has had very large changes happen since then and the context that Bish is mentioning is even more important. There are not going to be as many exclusives as they were during the sixth generation, the last generation should have proven that. Again the situations aren't even similar at all. There isn't a point of comparison, even if you are using it only as an optimistic projection.
More like the opposite, "How does the Xbox stack up to the PS2".
I get where you're trying to go with it but using PS2 as an example is a little misguided because the console had exclusives like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, GTA and so on whereas now all the heaviest hitters are on both platforms, and as much as MS has a Sunset Overdrive here and Sony has a Driveclub over there it pales to the quantity of Assasin's Creed, Destiny, Fifa, COD, Battlefield etc.
crappybannedjunior999999
Banned
All in on the Xbox One pony though, aren't ya?
Hawaii Jeff
Member
That Jim sure knows how to raise a shitstorm!
(Unlike Polygon, it's usually intentional)
(Unlike Polygon, it's usually intentional)
Great points all around.
Oh, absolutely that's what it was in the eyes of the wide audience. I was just trying to keep my metaphor consistent.
Well yes, the heaviest hitting 3rd parties tend to be platform agnostic these days. I think that leaves the ball in Microsoft's court when it comes to differentiators that aren't fucking Kinect, but my overall sentiment was that if power gap wasn't the whole story in gen6 then it might not be in gen8. This all started because I was quoting a guy illustrating how Xbox One was an underpowered box that was "too big" once you make it less about TV functionality. You can also say that the WiiU's tablet isn't much of a purchase incentive, yet there are people who are optimistic that it can start finding it's feet purely on the merit of good games played on a pro controller, graphical parity be damned. I'm talking that to a lesser extent.
Per usual, Jim is spot on. Note how he doesn't say he doesn't enjoy playing games on the console, only that they've never apologized for lying to us all. I mean, yes they've had positive PR lately, but it is hard to get past the sour taste in your mouth and the lack of an apology for trying to sell us a broken promises.
serversurfer
Member
WTF? No. PS2 wasn't being sold as a shitty XBox. XBox was being sold as a shitty PlayStation, in that it had no games, you had to pay for multiplayer, and it was approximately 72x the size of the PS2.
You've got everything all backwards. That's why your comparisons aren't making any sense. The XBone can't do well against the PS4 "just like the PS2 did well against the XBox" because Gen8 isn't anything like Gen6 in any way, shape, or form. MS don't have the 18 month head start. MS don't have the stable of first party developers. MS don't have the goodwill of third party developers. MS don't have the hot, new tech people want. MS don't even have Bungie anymore the team that made XBox a brand so that's why you're getting Halo retreads instead.