Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!

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Nintendo managed to simplify EVs and IVs in Pokemon for a wider audience while still catering to those who already knew what they were

I mean, wave dashing isn't outside the realm of possibility. They may have made it easier to pull off and with a decent tutorial...
 
georly said:
The people who want wavedashing to return are a lot smaller in the grand scheme of things. A small percentage of people who will actually buy and play smash 4. It may even turn some people off to ever trying to play competitively (like me). If I need to master wavedashing to play for glory with relative success, I don't want to play for glory. I'm probably not alone in this. This is melee-enthusiast wish-fulfillment. That's a lot of work for sakurai and team to have to try to balance the game for 2 different set of mechanics. Not worth it from a cost-benefit-analysis. You're making a very few people happy, probably just as many unhappy, and you give yourself a lot of work to do to please a small amount of people.
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I love Melee and wavedashing, but I agree that it's not really a good idea.

It would split the player base further. It would make both the normal and 'advanced' mode feel less exciting; the normal one would lack features, while the other would be a side mode.

I think the game would be better with L-cancelling and wavedashing enabled, but having it in a side mode is kinda meh to me. Options aren't always purely good things in multiplayer/community driven games. We don't always get to exert the level of influence on the community that we might like.
 
Xpike said:
It also doesn't really represent Mother as a whole, it's supposed to be about weird towns and discovering things like a kid, the Giygas stage would just make it seem creepy and not at all like Mother
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Isn't Metroid that series that takes place in a volcano?
 
balladofwindfishes said:
Nintendo managed to simplify EVs and IVs in Pokemon for a wider audience while still catering to those who already knew what they were

I mean, wave dashing isn't outside the realm of possibility. They may have made it easier to pull off and with a decent tutorial...
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I feel like they're missing the forest for the trees with these efforts. Don't try to simplify IVs or L-cancelling. They're both pretty mediocre mechanics that should shouldn't require the player to work for them. Give everything 31s and cancel the lag on every move. Makes the game more accessible and leaves the meaningful elements of depth.

EVs are handled a little better now though. It would be neat to see a wavedash come back, with a simplified input.

PadWarrior said:
I can't imagine trying to wave dash on a 3ds lol
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Through the SP, DS, DSLite, DSi, and even 3DS, I've had enough shoulder buttons go out that I would feel bad about ever doing it. Actually, enough that I'll feel bad about even playing Smash on the things. :\
 
Xpike said:
It also doesn't really represent Mother as a whole, it's supposed to be about weird towns and discovering things like a kid, the Giygas stage would just make it seem creepy and not at all like Mother
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Although I think that rumor is false, the representation of some series was pretty odd in Brawl as far as stages go. Kirby's only new stage was MetaKnight's ship, which certainly isn't the general atmosphere of the franchise. Even Mother 3 itself had as stage a giant spoiler that didn't really represent most of the game. Note that the atmosphere of the stages didn't seem to limit choices of music either. Although they could always just give more bgms to classic stages to avoid that problem.
 
It'd be interesting if Sakurai assigned a button for wavedashing and called it "sliding" or something. You could use it while holding forward or back. This way, there's no tech skill barrier for new players, and it's not tied to air dodging. It'd just provide a movement option for players that want it.

A - attack
B - special
X - Slide
Y - Jump
 
emb said:
I feel like they're missing the forest for the trees with these efforts. Don't try to simplify IVs or L-cancelling. They're both pretty mediocre mechanics that should shouldn't require the player to work for them. Give everything 31s and cancel the lag on every move. Makes the game more accessible and leaves the meaningful elements of depth.

EVs are handled a little better now though. It would be neat to see a wavedash come back, with a simplified input.


Through the SP, DS, DSLite, DSi, and even 3DS, I've had enough shoulder buttons go out that I would feel bad about ever doing it. Actually, enough that I'll feel bad about even playing Smash on the things. :
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Honestly the actual input is pretty simple but the timing can be tricky for some characters. Widening the window would be perfect for easing exaction
 
DaBoss said:
They should add a short-hop button.
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I'd be interested to see what it would be like if jumping had more possible heights. Like, letting off the jump button at any time (early) in the jump would stop it updward acceleration early, rather than set short hop and full jump lengths. I'm feeling like it would probably just end up being annoying though.
 
Ryce said:
Link and Zelda/Sheik were going to be the only Zelda characters in Melee until Ganondorf's last minute inclusion as a clone. He wasn't planned, and he was the last character added to the game.
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Ok? I was talking about how it would feel to common players had one of them been left out.
 
Freezie KO said:
It'd be interesting if Sakurai assigned a button for wavedashing and called it "sliding" or something. You could use it while holding forward or back. This way, there's no tech skill barrier for new players, and it's not tied to air dodging. It'd just provide a movement option for players that want it.

A - attack
B - special
X - Slide
Y - Jump
Click to expand...

That'd be such a bad default input on the 3DS. If Y was only jump, if you tried rolling Y > A to do a jump attack you'd end up pressing X and B on accident in the process unless you used something other than your thumb to press the buttons. One button wavedash sounds stupid anyway.
 
Anura said:
Why the hell would you hate a toggle option that plenty of people are asking for? I mean I even think that rumor is just bogus but hating even having the option of that stuff? That's just stupid
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You're right, I'm sorry. I should have clarified more. I wrote that reply in a rush as I'm setting up for Comic-Con.

I have no problem with them being toggles offline or online, and it would be silly if I did. It's the bit about all that shit being automatically turned on in For Glory and turned off in For Fun that I have a problem with. That purports the idea that one set of mechanics is inherently superior to the other, which is silly and not at all true.
 
DaBoss said:
They should add a short-hop button.
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emb said:
I'd be interested to see what it would be like if jumping had more possible heights. Like, letting off the jump button at any time (early) in the jump would stop it updward acceleration early, rather than set short hop and full jump lengths. I'm feeling like it would probably just end up being annoying though.
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I'd love a short hop button that jumps no higher than X height or jumps the same short height every time. I'd also love it if the same button enabled a fast fall if you're already airborn, as well. Would make those mechanics way easier for me to pull off. Especially since 3DS has no c stick, it makes doing up airs while fast falling too hard for me.
 
Village said:
They are npc's ... does no one read op's
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lol, did you think that I was implying that those characters would've ever stood a chance of being playable? I don't think Sonic is ever getting another playable rep in Smash, and if it was it would be a Genesis character.

I just don't care to see anything from Sonic Boom show up in the game via stage cameos, trophies, etc because everything about that series looks horrid.
 
Anura said:
Honestly the actual input is pretty simple but the timing can be tricky for some characters. Widening the window would be perfect for easing exaction
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That's true. It actually is pretty easy. I actually find it to be a really nice balance. It's just hard enough to be satisfying and interesting when you first learn it, but easy enough to do without thought after a little while. Like you said, the tricky part is just the timings. Imo, it's not so much that any of the timings are difficult, as it is that the timings are just different. Learning it with Marth doesn't mean you have it down with Bowser or Falco. The different jump start up times are just enough to make it weird.

But I see a lot of players talk about it as though it's overwhelming. I guess because it's not really intuitive at first. I wouldn't mind a slide button sort of thing, if it meant more people would get the hang of the movement. Widening the window could work. I'd almost like to see the angle eased up on; ie, get the full slide even if you aren't too close to perfectly horizontal at the right time. That kinda takes away from some of the options though.
 
Jedi Link said:
I agree that it's extremely suspicious at first glance (especially the toggles; I thought that was dumb as hell) but upon reading more, I feel like there may be more than meets the eye here. Quick recap of the important details (so far):
  • His source is employee who was fired a while ago but is still in contact with some people. Some of his information is current (from contacts), while some may be outdated (from his own experience before being fired).
  • Miahstorm has been constantly replying to people's questions all throughout the thread, and has shown screencaps of the supposed emails he's received. Nowhere near as elusive as Sal is/was.
  • CREDIBILITY: He said in a private message to a mod that Chrom definitely isn't in the game a few days before the Robin reveal. This is pretty bold if fake as Gematsu was still holy at the time. Similarly, he also said that Lucina would be a Marth costume with mask and no-mask varieties. We know that this isn't true now, but it was true at some point in development, and it's pretty specific for a guess. These are the biggest things in his favour right now. EDIT: He also said that Rayman was originally considered but not in the game. This was before the big trophy mindfuck happened. So there's that.
  • He said that Bandanna Dee and Meta Knight would be revealed soon, and then later stated more firmly that they'd be revealed at SDCC. This is what's going to make or break the leak.
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What I dont get is he said that the employee was fired a while back and he has some slightly outdated info that would align with development if his friend got fired at some point in the not too distant past but he somehow knows that Sakurai is planning to reveal a trailer soon and what characters will be in it. Those things dont match up unless Sakurai literally made Lucina her own character a month ago or something.

What I find funny about this leak is people are scrutinizing the Sceptile part and not the toggle options, King K Rool being playable with a Galleon Plank stage (lol), 56 playable characters, another touring Zelda stage, etc.
 
Variable jump height beyond 2 different heights would be too complicated.
georly said:
I'd love a short hop button that jumps no higher than X height or jumps the same short height every time. I'd also love it if the same button enabled a fast fall if you're already airborn, as well. Would make those mechanics way easier for me to pull off. Especially since 3DS has no c stick, it makes doing up airs while fast falling too hard for me.
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Short-hopping already exists in Smash, it just requires you to lightly press the jump button in previous games and in Smash 4 as well. And it does exactly as you said, jumps the same height all the time, just less than a normal jump.

I just think it is pointless to have 2 buttons dedicated to jumping and thought it would probably benefit people (including myself) to have a short hop button to make it much more convenient to do.
 
K-A-Deman said:
Huh, seems I stepped on some toes. Well take these as bandages then; Xenoblade-themed avatars in the combined hope of Smash representation, yay *confetti*
WARNING - SPOILERS FOR GROUP MEMBERS

I tried to go with an obscured effect so that thier silhouettes were identifiable and some basic detail. But the modified filter I ran them through is a little antsy and worked better on some them others.
Anyway I'm no Neorice, but enjoy them anyway, whoever wants them.

Oh, I do have higher res one's if anyone wants to modify them, just send me a pm.
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These are sick. Can I rock the Shulk one?
 
PadWarrior said:
Not really making alternate stages is probably easier then making two different fighting mechanics in one game.
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Directional Dodging isn't hard to implement though >_>
With the old primitive brawl modding tools one could add it to a character's moveset in under 10 minutes if they're doing it slowly.

It's literally just adding directions to your dodge, and then throwing the helpless air animation there if you're still in the air when the dodge ends.

Making actual stages, modeling, texturing, adding collision boxes, etc. take way longer to do.
 
DaBoss said:
Variable jump height beyond 2 different heights would be too complicated.

Short-hopping already exists in Smash, it just requires you to lightly press the jump button in previous games as well as Smash 4. And it does exactly as you said, jumps the same height all the time, just less than a short jump.

I just think it is pointless to have 2 buttons dedicated to jumping and thought it would probably benefit people (including myself) to have a short hop button to make it much more convenient to do.
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I know how to do a short hop :p I just meant that since 3DS doesn't have the best joystick and doesn't have a c stick, a short-hop/fast-fall button would be great. I agree w/ your 3rd paragraph. Makes it easier for me to pull off (I don't have the dexterity that I used to and I don't have the time to master it) and the 3DS is vastly different, so I wouldn't mind some concessions to make it easier/more accessible on 3DS.

Smashbros-miiverse poll: https://epoll.me/v/ACQRnyh_-jo
Vote for your number 1 most wanted vet. (Warning, facebook poll, i think)
 
georly said:
I'd love a short hop button that jumps no higher than X height or jumps the same short height every time. I'd also love it if the same button enabled a fast fall if you're already airborn, as well. Would make those mechanics way easier for me to pull off. Especially since 3DS has no c stick, it makes doing up airs while fast falling too hard for me.
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I feel like I'd get too confused trying to double jump and accidentally fast falling with that button.

But I agree that ff uairs are kinda tough without a c-stick. I feel almost helpless anytime I play Melee single player. The c-stick is basically air as far as I'm concerned. Necessary for life. :P
 
Giving wavedash a 'button' would be cool, but I don't really care either way. I don't really think it's that important for what I want in Smash 4. Landing lag, survival percentages, and relative game-speed is something I'm more concerned about and I couldn't really care about most of the Melee-specific mechanics being retained (except for momentum conservation, I guess) if everything in those three regards remained the same. Just tacking it onto the existing flow wouldn't really change much, I feel.

also fuck l-cancelling

Lord_Byron28 said:
What I find funny about this leak is people are scrutinizing the Sceptile part and not the toggle options, King K Rool being playable with a Galleon Plank stage (lol), 56 playable characters, another touring Zelda stage, etc.
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It's stupid for plenty of reasons. Like if I recall it also insisted that you could airdodge three times in a row. :lol
 
This was asked a long time ago before, but will ask again now. Who uses Tap Jump? It is when you tap your stick upwards to jump.

I NEVER used it. I was so happy it was an option to disable in Brawl lol. Dedicated jump button for life.
 
Loco4Coco said:
Oh I know, but from your first statement it sounds like you're trying to say NPCs can't be in smash.
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He probably thought my post said "Thank god these characters won't be playable in Smash" when I was really saying "Thank god these characters won't appear at all in Smash".
 
emb said:
I feel like I'd get too confused trying to double jump and accidentally fast falling with that button.

But I agree that ff uairs are kinda tough without a c-stick. I feel almost helpless anytime I play Melee single player. The c-stick is basically air as far as I'm concerned. Necessary for life. :P
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I think if 'X' was short hop/fast fall and 'Y' was normal jump/double jump, you could learn to only press the other when trying to do something specific.

Like Y to jump, X to fast Fall, all while you tilt up on the joystick , then press A to do uAir. Just a button rhythm you learn.

DaBoss said:
This was asked a long time ago before, but will ask again now. Who uses Tap Jump? It is when you tap your stick upwards to jump.

I NEVER used it. I was so happy it was an option to disable in Brawl lol. Dedicated jump button for life.
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Never ever ever. Hate it. Love that you can turn it off in brawl. Everyone in my household thinks i'm crazy. They all tap jump.
 
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