-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Heroes of the Storm Technical Alpha Thread: [Artifacts Removed]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
- Status
Rehgar is far better than what they did with Sgt. Hammer. He is a known character from the comics (along with Broll and Valeera.) Sgt. Hammer is a completely original character that was made up for the game, and in the process they passed over existing lore characters in the process.
I'll take a comic character that fits the intended unit than a no name any day.
People will spend gold on Artifacts (because you have to) and then spend real money on heroes instead. People weren't buying enough skins I guess.
A Siege Tank is (in my opinion) way more iconic and interesting than a Shaman, even if that Shaman is a named character in a WoW comic book.
Then you just didn't play much WC3/TFT.
The Lamonster
Member
Did Rehgar ever appeared in WoW? I only remember him from the comics
god damn. This is why I have 13 different Blizzard art books.
Generic fantasy comic-book art?
The biggest problem with this system is that its a stat increase straight out of the bat. At least with League of Legends it was a very slight increase over each level, this is just "here is 20% increased mount speed on start of the match because you farmed longer."
It is hilarious how bad of a decision this is, and reeks of Blizzard trying to penny pull from players (I know gold can only be earned from in-game actions but still). I loved the idea they were moving Heroes to, but now it feels like its just become a LoL rip off because that's where the money is, and having the Blizzard name could help push that further. These stat increases are literally like buying in-game items, which is something I had hoped Heroes would not do.
This game was suppose to be a drop-in, drop-out style MOBA that hasn't been around, yet now I'll be spending even more time in menus min-maxing and farming for gold to keep an edge on others. Get rid of this shit Blizzard.
It is hilarious how bad of a decision this is, and reeks of Blizzard trying to penny pull from players (I know gold can only be earned from in-game actions but still). I loved the idea they were moving Heroes to, but now it feels like its just become a LoL rip off because that's where the money is, and having the Blizzard name could help push that further. These stat increases are literally like buying in-game items, which is something I had hoped Heroes would not do.
This game was suppose to be a drop-in, drop-out style MOBA that hasn't been around, yet now I'll be spending even more time in menus min-maxing and farming for gold to keep an edge on others. Get rid of this shit Blizzard.
The Lamonster
Member
crawlingpeter
Member
I've been pretty hyped at the prospect of eventually snagging an invite to this Alpha, but after this rune/artifact addition, all of a sudden I don't feel like I give much a shit anymore.
Very hopeful they scrap it before this game gets to version 1.0 but realistically, I'm worried they won't.
Very hopeful they scrap it before this game gets to version 1.0 but realistically, I'm worried they won't.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Ugh, 4 of my friends got invites and neither are interested in the game.
Blizzard pls ;_;
Blizzard pls ;_;
The Lamonster
Member
So who are the biggest heroes that still aren't in the game besides Thrall and Jaina?
I know they still need to add the rest of the D3 heroes, but I guess we could also still see Tosh, Garrosh, and maybe even Leeroy
So who are the biggest heroes that still aren't in the game besides Thrall and Jaina?
I know they still need to add the rest of the D3 heroes, but I guess we could also still see Tosh, Garrosh, and maybe even Leeroy
You could make cases for several characters from all three franchises.
I think actually for Starcraft they have already pretty blown their load. Raynor, Kerrigan, Zeratul and Tassadar - they even have some of the newer characters from SC2 as well in the mix. Realistically in terms of big names you've only got the Overmind and Arcturus Mengsk left - there's certainly no character bigger than Zeratul, Kerrigan and Raynor.
Obviously there's loads of minor characters they can use (and I'd love to see them put some cerebrates from SC1 in the game as well), but they do seem to have gone overboard on SC characters already compared to the other two games.
Obviously there's loads of minor characters they can use (and I'd love to see them put some cerebrates from SC1 in the game as well), but they do seem to have gone overboard on SC characters already compared to the other two games.
SC doesn't have all that many big name characters to begin wtih. Even WC3 at least has the random heroes and stuff to pull from (though obviously wow kind of invalidates even that need if they really want).
I'm fine with stuff like Sgt. Hammer, Brightwing, etc. Random units with names and stories being given. Much better than just going the dota route of "Faerie Dragon" or something.
Either way, yeah Starcraft they're left kind of just making people up you're right, more due to the nature of the franchise compared to the other two is all.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Even free 75k gold isn't gonna make me terribly happy with this LoL flavored patch. I feel obligated but utterly uninterested in testing these artifacts. Gonna be an interesting week if nothing else.
Have pity on us who only get 10K gold. I should just about have enough to buy 3 artefacts maxed when the patch hits.
Not entirely sure why they have graduated the gold though - if they want to test the artefacts then they need to have everyone testing them surely, not just those who play the most?
Not entirely sure why they have graduated the gold though - if they want to test the artefacts then they need to have everyone testing them surely, not just those who play the most?
The point of the system is to create an uneven playing field and as such they probably want to test how the playerbase reacts at all points of the scale.
At least link the patch notes if we're going to start talking about them: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/14742016
And holy shit, when people said we'd be bribed with gold I didn't think Blizzard was doing it literally.
Edit: Master Skins cost 10k gold. Well, there goes that gold.
Edit2: Hammer doesn't have a Master Skin. Fuck this game.
And holy shit, when people said we'd be bribed with gold I didn't think Blizzard was doing it literally.
Edit: Master Skins cost 10k gold. Well, there goes that gold.
Edit2: Hammer doesn't have a Master Skin. Fuck this game.
I suspect what it will do is make people buy the artefacts they want for one character and then just play with them all the time rather than experiment more.
If artefacts were more interesting than 'gain X%' for each stat I could understand it, but currently they are such dull upgrades I'm just going to focus on a couple of key ones for Zagara and leave it at that.
I still think having artefacts be a form of 'out of game shop' that brings in some of the items from lol / dota2 would be a better idea. Blink dagger along would make unlock some really interesting builds for characters such as Gazlowe or Malfurion.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Sorry.
Looking at changes to my characters:
Abby
- Bribe (Talent) has been removed. - Probably the only character who could still abuse it to some extent. Good for balance I guess.
- Symbiote (Q)
Stab (Q)
New Talent (Level 4): Barbed Spines
Stab deals an additional 20% damage. - Decent I guess, but I can't remember what the lvl 4 alternatives are. Probably better than Spike Burst range if that's a lvl 4.
Spike Burst (W)
New Talent (Level 1): Eradicate Minions
Spike Burst deals an additional 50% damage to non-Heroic targets. - Probably better than the other options, though occasionally the locust speed talent is helpful combined with the siege attack talent.
- Minion Killer (Talent) has been removed. - Obligatory because of Artifacts I assume.
- Assimilation (Trait)
New Talent (Level 16): Aggressive Defense
Increases shield amounts generated by using Basic Abilities from 20% to 30%. - Buffs are always nice, especially considering Murky and Lili appear to have been nuked this patch.
- Ravage (Q)
Clean Kill (Talent)
Moved from Level 7 to Level 4
Mana refund increased from 75% to 100% if the target is killed by Ravage. - More buffs I'm not sure she really needed.
New Talent (Level 7): Adaptation
Ravage can now be used to jump to allies (does not deal damage.)
Using Ravage on an ally reduces its cooldown duration by 50%. - Not sure how this fits into her playstyle. Probably more useful for survivability than anything else, just off the top of my head.
Serious post time:
It takes 81k gold to buy all the slots and max out all the artifacts (assuming there's only 14 artifacts being put in) so I'm going to immediately throw my 75k into just maxing them off, even the ones I don't think are good.
Which ones are good? Attack Damage and Attack Speed are the two to focus on for Assassins. Haven't really thought that much about the rest, but at the very least the first slot feels like a no brainer for a majority of the heroes.
The game for me will pretty much become a siege tank simulator at this point so I'm not sure how much I should care.
The four new generic talents piss me off, mostly.
With the addition of Artifacts, the following generic Talents have been removed:
Seasoned Marksman should be replacing Path of the Assassin and really, really pisses me off. Having some heroes be given an innate ability for last hits sounds cool. Give all the Assassins a generic last hit talent really, really ticks me off. I thought this game was about discouraging last hitting?
Conjurer's Pursuit replaces Path of the Wizard, and I don't dislike anything that encourages people to get Regen Globes more often. Path of the Wizard was only given to Supports, many of which have low attack power, and especially so in the early game. As long as the numbers are tuned right for this it'll be like Regen Master (a trait that only crazy people like me ever regularly use).
Scouting Drone throws a hiccup. I don't think this replaces Path of the Warrior, so then who gets this? The drone can be destroyed, but still, it's overall better than Clairvoyance. The only thing I can see Clairvoyance having over this is the fact that it can be cast across the entire map. I'd rather more characters be given Mule than more characters be given a ward, although I must grudgingly admit that having wards helps split pushing in theory. Let's see if it helps in actuality.
Gathering Power really pisses me off too. By saying it's level 4 only, it should only go to characters with Minion Killer (Gazlowe, Sonya, Witch Doctor, Zagara off the top of my head) and in the case of just those heroes I don't mind it too much. At the very least it disappears on death. But this really shouldn't go on most Warriors and any Assassins whatsoever.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Murky was nerfed to shit. I actually didn't play against many of them after the new patch thanks to Zagara. Was he really that troublesome still?
It takes 81k gold to buy all the slots and max out all the artifacts (assuming there's only 14 artifacts being put in) so I'm going to immediately throw my 75k into just maxing them off, even the ones I don't think are good.
Which ones are good? Attack Damage and Attack Speed are the two to focus on for Assassins. Haven't really thought that much about the rest, but at the very least the first slot feels like a no brainer for a majority of the heroes.
The game for me will pretty much become a siege tank simulator at this point so I'm not sure how much I should care.
The four new generic talents piss me off, mostly.
With the addition of Artifacts, the following generic Talents have been removed:
- Minion Killer
- Path of the Assassin
- Path of the Warrior
- Path of the Wizard
New Talent (Level 1): Seasoned Marksman
- Grants +1 Basic Attack Damage permanently for every 5 Minions killed.
- This effect stacks.
- Only Minions damaged by Basic Attacks within moments of their death will count toward this bonus.
- Gather 3 Regeneration Globes to permanently gain +0.25 Mana Regeneration.
- This effect stacks.
- Places a flying drone at the target location which reveals a large area and any Cloaked
- Heroes around it for 60 seconds.
- The drone can be seen and destroyed by enemies.
- Passively grants +8% Ability Power
- Each Hero takedown grants an additional 2% Ability Power, up to a maximum of 12%. This bonus is lost on death.
Seasoned Marksman should be replacing Path of the Assassin and really, really pisses me off. Having some heroes be given an innate ability for last hits sounds cool. Give all the Assassins a generic last hit talent really, really ticks me off. I thought this game was about discouraging last hitting?
Conjurer's Pursuit replaces Path of the Wizard, and I don't dislike anything that encourages people to get Regen Globes more often. Path of the Wizard was only given to Supports, many of which have low attack power, and especially so in the early game. As long as the numbers are tuned right for this it'll be like Regen Master (a trait that only crazy people like me ever regularly use).
Scouting Drone throws a hiccup. I don't think this replaces Path of the Warrior, so then who gets this? The drone can be destroyed, but still, it's overall better than Clairvoyance. The only thing I can see Clairvoyance having over this is the fact that it can be cast across the entire map. I'd rather more characters be given Mule than more characters be given a ward, although I must grudgingly admit that having wards helps split pushing in theory. Let's see if it helps in actuality.
Gathering Power really pisses me off too. By saying it's level 4 only, it should only go to characters with Minion Killer (Gazlowe, Sonya, Witch Doctor, Zagara off the top of my head) and in the case of just those heroes I don't mind it too much. At the very least it disappears on death. But this really shouldn't go on most Warriors and any Assassins whatsoever.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Murky was nerfed to shit. I actually didn't play against many of them after the new patch thanks to Zagara. Was he really that troublesome still?
He's got redhair, bro, RED HAIR. Nothing generic about red hair on an orc.
Edit: oh wait I guess that's a pelt. Generic orc reconfirmed!
Team support 4 lyfe.
Did I mention how much I hate the new artifact system? Because the new artifact system is hot garbage. Getting rid of minion killer is just one more thing to hate about it.
No word on keybinding; it's something that has been requested since Alpha came out in March but they're in zero hurry to get it out. Consider they even put out "hold right click to continually move" in this patch instead.
Blizzard post on Murky changes. Short version: Backdooring is out completely. http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/13569316916#1
Blizzard post on Murky changes. Short version: Backdooring is out completely. http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/13569316916#1
sobaka770
Banned
Watched interview with developers and two things struck me as odd.
First topic which I have issues with, is unlocking stuff for the sake of unlocking stuff. Browder stated that it was one of the main design goals to have a game with things to unlock and set as example multiplayer-focused shooters, such as BF4 and CoD, where there is account progression and weapon progression.
I understand the idea and it's a cool analogy, unfortunately, the problem is that CoD/BF games are rarely played with as much emphasis on team combat, apart from tournament play, and one player having un-upgraded guns is not a big issue since nobody usually cares in public matchmaking and one person doesn't usually win or lose the game. In HotS or in other MOBAs, however, lack of talents or choice of ult is detrimental to gameplay.
I have a similar issue with the second topic which is about artifacts: Browder talked in length about how they want the changes to be meaningful enough to feel the progression but not overpowering to the point of must-have. Apart from all the problems with "grinding" that artifacts create, which I won't touch here, this is once again an idea which, in my opinion, doesn't suit the game for same reasons as above: if you don't have powerful artifacts you're penalizing your team and in MOBAs people care about every single detail. Therefore, it will promote toxicity from the player base and serve as a barrier to new players.
I think that instead of having progression systems which affect gameplay, players should have other cosmetic things to farm gold or level up for. Heroes recoloring is cool feature, but why can't we have dyes in-game, which would cost gold or money? Can't we have a hero-themed HUD enhancements which we could get at a certain hero level and buy with gold? Special dance animations, moves, death effects etc etc.
There is so many cosmetic things that people can be farming in this game, but, please, let the gameplay be accessible from the get-go to everyone.
NB And artifacts are a terrible idea. LoL should've gotten rid of them a long time ago, and HotS shouldn't have even bothered.
First topic which I have issues with, is unlocking stuff for the sake of unlocking stuff. Browder stated that it was one of the main design goals to have a game with things to unlock and set as example multiplayer-focused shooters, such as BF4 and CoD, where there is account progression and weapon progression.
I understand the idea and it's a cool analogy, unfortunately, the problem is that CoD/BF games are rarely played with as much emphasis on team combat, apart from tournament play, and one player having un-upgraded guns is not a big issue since nobody usually cares in public matchmaking and one person doesn't usually win or lose the game. In HotS or in other MOBAs, however, lack of talents or choice of ult is detrimental to gameplay.
I have a similar issue with the second topic which is about artifacts: Browder talked in length about how they want the changes to be meaningful enough to feel the progression but not overpowering to the point of must-have. Apart from all the problems with "grinding" that artifacts create, which I won't touch here, this is once again an idea which, in my opinion, doesn't suit the game for same reasons as above: if you don't have powerful artifacts you're penalizing your team and in MOBAs people care about every single detail. Therefore, it will promote toxicity from the player base and serve as a barrier to new players.
I think that instead of having progression systems which affect gameplay, players should have other cosmetic things to farm gold or level up for. Heroes recoloring is cool feature, but why can't we have dyes in-game, which would cost gold or money? Can't we have a hero-themed HUD enhancements which we could get at a certain hero level and buy with gold? Special dance animations, moves, death effects etc etc.
There is so many cosmetic things that people can be farming in this game, but, please, let the gameplay be accessible from the get-go to everyone.
NB And artifacts are a terrible idea. LoL should've gotten rid of them a long time ago, and HotS shouldn't have even bothered.
To add to your point, just because another game does it doesn't mean it's a good thing. But to break down the analogy even further, the upgrades for CoD are per gun and would translate to Heroes if there were a number of unique artifact choices to unlock for each individual character (instead of having to unlock talents) and you didn't have to level them up at all.
Next, there's the simple fact that meaningful out of game choices can completely leave you fucked over before a match even starts unless you go into the match with information on your teammates' hero choices, enemy team's hero choices, and the map you'll be playing on.
Finally, having this system hurts Heroes of the Storm as a competitive game. Even in something like CoD it's assumed that you're playing on max level accounts with everything unlocked, just in case, but that doesn't make it good. A proper competitive game should allow you to be on equal footing with your opponents with minimal headache. CoD isn't a proper competitive game but a game played competitively. You can say the same thing about TCGs like Magic or Hearthstone; outside of draft and arena modes they tend to be very Pay to Win type games.
Needing to grind or pay a bunch to unlock or earn things belong in single player and cooperative games, not competitive games. These days gamers have to make compromises on this all the time, but I just won't be able to ever consider playing Heroes of the Storm even seriously while the current Artifact system remains.
Edit: Dammit Yoshi, now I have to quote.
Edit 2: There's actually one possibility where the artifact system will do minimal damage to competitive play. And that's if competitive play abandons bans and exclusive picks. Personally, I have no love for pick/ban systems and not having one makes it easier for gimmick teams to rise up if teams can hide their chosen heroes until they load onto the map. But I also know that there's a risk of optimal team comps being what everybody plays. I'm not sure if that's much of a bad thing though. I could legitimately only play my top 1 or 2 favorite heroes without any worry.
Anyway, if custom games were still in (so we could pick map) and I was on a team, I'd want to try scrims for the time being without a pre-game draft. And this option would only solve the problem of Artifacts being an out-of-game choice. There's still the matter of the amount of grind for them.
ScepticMatt
Member
Funny that this gets repeated, when on average Valve makes more money per user than league of legends.
Of course this doesn't mean Valve couldn't have made even more per user if they were less generous, but then they wouldn't have as many users either.
(Source: http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/mmo-arpu/ )
I am so jelly of all the people who has this alpha
I am in this, but I'd rather just play lol, lol...
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Play what? You started laughing just as you were about to say what game you'd rather play!
Hint: itt has awesomeness like Leona, Lux, Ahri, and all that jazz. Wake me up when HOTS gets there.
Jokes aside, I am afraid to grind in HOTS because i am sure that a wipe will come the moment this gets into public beta. So... no point in investing time into it.
Or no wipes will come?
sobaka770
Banned
Who, who, who and what jazz? Diablo, Kerrigan, Illidan and ETC rock only!
PS. I will never get in Alpha, won't I?
So in other words, we don't know how to handle Murky so we'll just ruin the hero. Okay Blizzard, now with the rune rip off it is starting to sound like a LoL clone. Murky is going to just be Lee Sin all over again in that they won't know how to handle how he plays and constantly shifting him from super OP to downright useless.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Don't be. It's really not worth playing yet.I am so jelly of all the people who has this alpha
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
How so? Unfished? Buggy? Unrewarding?
- Status