ambientmystic
Member
Thread title change needed asap. Thanks for the update.
Man shoots and kills intruder. Police determine she was not pregnant.
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Thread title change needed asap. Thanks for the update.
Where are you getting this from? An unnamed source stated that the suspects had some sort of history with the old man.
I need to ask a question to all the internet warriors in this thread who are so against what the old guy did.
How many of you have actually been robbed while in your own home? I'm guessing not many, if any at all. I can say with complete honesty that I have been the victim of a break and enter in the middle of the night while I was asleep in my bed. I was 14, and it was just me and my younger sister home while my parents had gone away for a long weekend trip. I can only assume the robber thought the house was empty since there wasn't the usual car in the driveway. Luckily, as soon as I heard glass break I was able to sprint to my sister's room which had a lock and a phone and call the police. I guess hearing me slam my sister's door spooked the robber so he got the hell out, but not before dropping and breaking our expensive LCD TV and stealing my bike on his way out from our unlocked garage. Anyway, without going in to more detail, it was a horrible and traumatic experience. Up to that incident I would always sleep with my bedroom door open, but after that I wouldn't be able to fall alseep without the door shut and locked, even to this day. For months after it happened thoughts like, "What if he comes back to kill me and my sister because he thinks we know what he looks like?" ran through my 14 year old mind. Your home is supposed a place where you feel safe and secure, strangers breaking in to rob and and/or hurt you completely takes that away from you. So even if this 80 year old man killed this girl more out of revenge than self defense, I can't say for sure that I would have done it differently, having been in a somewhat similar situation. (note: this isn't saying I wouldn't be remorseful after emotions calmed down, but in the heat of the moment people do crazy things.)
How many of you have actually been robbed while in your own home? I'm guessing not many, if any at all. I can say with complete honesty that I have been the victim of a break and enter in the middle of the night while I was asleep in my bed. I was 14, and it was just me and my younger sister home while my parents had gone away for a long weekend trip. I can only assume the robber thought the house was empty since there wasn't the usual car in the driveway. Luckily, as soon as I heard glass break I was able to sprint to my sister's room which had a lock and a phone and call the police. I guess hearing me slam my sister's door spooked the robber so he got the hell out, but not before dropping and breaking our expensive LCD TV and stealing my bike on his way out from our unlocked garage. Anyway, without going in to more detail, it was a horrible and traumatic experience. Up to that incident I would always sleep with my bedroom door open, but after that I wouldn't be able to fall alseep without the door shut and locked, even to this day. For months after it happened thoughts like, "What if he comes back to kill me and my sister because he thinks we know what he looks like?" ran through my 14 year old mind. Your home is supposed a place where you feel safe and secure, strangers breaking in to rob and and/or hurt you completely takes that away from you. So even if this 80 year old man killed this girl more out of revenge than self defense, I can't say for sure that I would have done it differently, having been in a somewhat similar situation. (note: this isn't saying I wouldn't be remorseful after emotions calmed down, but in the heat of the moment people do crazy things.)
cjp
Member
Did your parents get in trouble for leaving you and your sister unsupervised?
She probably wanted to use anything to save her life.
Which is what many would do when a gun is pointed at them ready to end their life.
So she came up with a bullshit lie to save her worthless life after her 3rd attempt to rob this guy.
People here are attacking the guy who shot her? Look at this winner here.
Tough shit. Maybe she should have thought about that before attacking him and robbing him for the third time.
He shot her in the back as she was running away. The only reason why he killed her and not her accomplice is because she couldn't run away fast enough. How is any of that defensive? How's it not murder?
Owlowiscious
Member
Her being pregnant or not did not have anything to do with whether or not he acted illegally.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
I wonder if he was muttering anything to save his life as they were knocking him around ?
Was SHE the one that robbed him 3 times?
Has that been proven?
Probably, it's what many of us would do.
Nor did I insinuate that what he did was legal.
If he indeed shot her off his property as she was running away, what he did was illegal.
She fucking had it coming, though.
Lesser crimes?
Which of what I mentioned is a lesser crime?
I feel that people like this guy shouldn't be allowed to continue living. He shot someone that was no longer an immediate threat to him and feels no remorse about it. Yes, she shouldn't have committed the robbery but that doesn't excuse such needless and cold violence in return? If you're caught in the act of committing an awful crime, why should you get to spend the rest of your life in jail? If you do not value others, why should anyone value yours?
I understand I am in the minority with my feelings. I do not wish to suggest I know better than others, I simply wanted to have a discussion about it. I honestly greatly respect those that believe jail is still the better solution because I just don't feel compassion for people like this anymore.
And if this incident had been the first, does that make it any different? She still attacked and robbed an 80 year old man.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It has not been by the police yet. They should have police records and reports if he was.
To me it's a critical fact to the case as it goes to state of mind. If he reported 3 previous break ins...
He shot her in the back as she was running away. The only reason why he killed her and not her accomplice is because she couldn't run away fast enough. How is any of that defensive? How's it not murder?
Netherscourge
Banned
Her being pregnant is completely irrelevant.
Netherscourge
Banned
It sets the precedent that a criminal is home-free so long as he gets off your property in time.
All criminals will consider property lines and escape routes now to better plan their crimes.
baphomet
Member
They knew exactly where his safe was. It was definitely them, or some other trash they associated with.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You should do some reading on the legal system, we don't currently execute people for rape or pedophilia.
Following that line of logic, how did they get in the safe in the first place?
Let alone 3 times?
Self Defense does not include possible future actions.
Netherscourge
Banned
If he didn't shoot her, they'd both be back to rob him a 6th time.
I would argue what he did was preemptive self-defense.
I would argue what he did was preemptive self-defense.
This doesn't set a precedent. Surprisingly, the way the law works is that you can't just murder people for something they did in the past.
Justifiably so it sounds, how much valuable shit does this guy keep lying around? I'd rob him too.
Or, now that they know he has a gun and isn't afraid to use it, they may not come back at all. They may decide that the risk is no longer worth it. You can't kill someone because of what you think they may do in the future.
"Preemptive self-defense", are you fucking serious?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ehh... I'm sure it would come into consideration in the eyes of the law.
You defend yourself while they're in your home. When they flee and beg for their life you don't pursue and murder.
Yeah I wonder why someone would lie to save their life.
Jesus christ. It doesn't matter if she lied. In the moment, she was begging for her life and he didn't give two shits.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
You can't pre-emptively kill someone. It's the same reason why anti-terrorism laws (arrest someone with little reason and hold them indefinitely on the suspicion of future crimes) are so controversial.
Along a similar line, what if the suspects ran some distance away and started taunting the victim? "We're not robbing or threatening your life anymore. You can't shoot us, that would be murder!" Is the victim's only recourse to call police and hope they get there fast enough to arrest the suspect? Is standing far away taunting the same thing as running away and begging for your life?
Put yourself in the victim's shoes. You're elderly and more vulnerable, and had just been robbed. You feel helpless, hurt, and are scared beyond measure. Isn't it normal to feel some form of vengeance? Is there some part of you that wants to get back at the people who hurt you?
Along a similar line, what if the suspects ran some distance away and started taunting the victim? "We're not robbing or threatening your life anymore. You can't shoot us, that would be murder!" Is the victim's only recourse to call police and hope they get there fast enough to arrest the suspect? Is standing far away taunting the same thing as running away and begging for your life?
Put yourself in the victim's shoes. You're elderly and more vulnerable, and had just been robbed. You feel helpless, hurt, and are scared beyond measure. Isn't it normal to feel some form of vengeance? Is there some part of you that wants to get back at the people who hurt you?
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
So when they were beating this older man while robbing him you don't think he was begging. Or better yet do you think they gave a shit as you put it ? They chose to rob him they put themselves in this shitty position. He just happened to not care anymore .
If he were criminally charged it would matter. In some places that would change a murder into a double murder.
Winterfang
Banned
They just broke into his house multiple times and beat him up. He probably just wanted to make sure they were not going to come back, he was angry and obviously wasn't thinking clearly. His territorial instincts probably took over and he just wanted both of them dead.
BumblebeeCody
Member
America paranoia is why guns are legal. It's too funny.
I'm kinda worried that this guy next to me is "weird". I'm gonna shoot him in case something happens.
He probably begged, it's instinctive to do so.
njean777
Member
Yeah cuz that is how America is, come the fuck on.
Did I say they're in the right? No.
They should be facing charges and jail time. The police should be handling this.
If you can't see how fucked up it is to see someone begging for their life and not care and continue to kill them then I don't know what to say.
Not thinking clearly? He still doesn't show remorse for what he did. He doesn't care.
He murdered out of revenge and that is illegal. Could he get away with it? Sure. But murder charges are being considered and for good reason.
Yup, the guy went way overboard but still.
cjp
Member
Yes, that's what I asked.
Obviously, it depends on the kids and their maturity. I was definitely left alone at that age too and had no problems, like i imagine lots of kids are.
I'm just wondering if that broke laws for where they lived. Here in the UK for example, there isn't actually a specific age set in law for when you can leave a child alone, but it is "an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk". NSPCC guidance states that children under 16 shouldn't be left alone overnight. I'm not sure what the law is like for other counties or individual states.
Does that situation break the law as described for the UK? I'm not sure, I'm not lawyer.
A 14 year old child, responsible for a younger sibling, left alone for a "long weekend". Does that constitute "at risk"? He describes the incident as horrible and traumatic and that even today he can't "fall asleep without the door shut and locked". He even references his age in how it affected him:
Like I said, I'm not saying his parents were wrong to do so, I'm just curious if they broke the law or got into trouble for doing so.
Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
A guilty person begging to be spared after assaulting and robbing him ( possibly three times) Best way to avoid it from happening don't put yourself in the position in the first place. I'm not on either side. No one is innocent in this event.
That's pretty much how I feel. He should have called the police, but after all that's happened it is hard for me to that he acted like a depraved murderer, like others are saying. It isn't the same case as the guy who tied up his intruders and executed them.
That's not the same thing. You are not an 80 year old man whose house had been broken in to multiple times and been physically beaten. You can call it "America paranoia" and apply it to a whole country if you want, but in this case the man had more than enough reason to assume it would happen again. I'm not saying he was right in chasing down the woman and killing her though.
It is a little different when the guy next to you already has robbed you multiple times and assaulted you.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Nobody is saying the woman was innocent.
I never said anyone was innocent. Everyone in this situation is gross.
I don't care about the robbers. What bothers me is that anyone could watch a person beg for their life and still with no remorse kill them. That's fucked up.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
I agree no one is. My point was merely the begging factor being used by the girl and the old man not caring . Did they have any remorse over their action. Obviously not.
goldenpp72
Member
I'm willing to bet a lot of people in here think they could talk a serial killer into becoming a soup kitchen volunteer while he has a gun to their head. It comes off like these people have never been in a situation where their life/home/family is in danger, no one thinks rationally during these moments.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
I agree on no one is innocent. It didn't happen but it very well could have happened that they could have killed him and took off. I'm sure he begged also until he got ahold of his gun. They only showed remorse after they were In to deep.
timetokill
Banned
Oftentimes police don't do shit in cases of burglary, robbery, etc. They go, "well, if we figure something out, we'll let you know" and then the shit just slides.
Heh, I fucking knew it.
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