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2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]

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Facism said:
I don't know if you're being purposefully dishonest in your discussions or just failing to understand what's going on and the parties involved. "naysayers."
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Well I know where this is going so I'm going to wrap it up. I don't think everyone in the IDF are out of their minds. I'm sure there are good people in it who only want to protect their country. It's these people I only want to see honored and not any thugs.

If you think "no, Israel is always wrong, they're evil bla bla bla" then I don't care. I'm only putting up these statements for everyone else to see and to make a [less biased] judgment.
 
Just came back from a pro-palestine rally in Melbourne, Australia. Was surprisingly big around 5-6k people. Met a number of interesting characters including a old ass guy who thought the solution to solving the conflict is to send a bunch of young men over there and give therm swords.. because that's how the conflict in that land was solved 5000-years ago.

One positive feeling I got out of going to the demonstration.. is despite the number of israeli apologists I've been seeing here in this thread and on Facebook combined.. none of them are willing to go and demonstrate to stand up for Israel, they have no balls literally, meanwhile thousands are willing to come out in support of palestine, which gives me a good feeling that the people on the right side of the fence are willing to do something, and come in great numbers too!

Also on a another note there was a zionist counter-rally at the last one and I think it only had 10 people lulz.
 
zeroOman said:
let's hope alot of ppl watch the video so they know how fuked up every one there.
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To be fair, not every soldier is like this.

Decrying "Brutal Operation Taking Place in Our Name," Israeli Military Reservists Refuse to Serve
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/24/amidst_brutal_operation_in_our_name

YONATAN SHAPIRA: And I think that if I have to give one allegory to this whole thing, and this need of Israel and me, myself, of self-protection—legitimate thing, by the way; I want to be safe, I don’t want anyone to bomb me and to kill me and my baby—I would imagine it as gang rape. And forgive me for using this hard language, but when you have a group of people raping someone, and this person that is being raped starting to scratch, the first thing you want to do in order to stop the scratches is to stop the rape. And what Israel, official Israel, is trying to do is to continue the rape and deal with the scratches. And I say, stop the rape, stop the occupation, stop the apartheid, stop this inhumane ghettoization of Palestinians, and then—then—we can start talking, and we can reach peace agreements and all these beautiful words that now don’t mean anything for us.
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Chariot said:
There is a lot to care since the USA financing Israel. But could the american people shown what their taxmoney is doing, how barbaric america's greatest ally is, hell will break loose and they will be forced to draw support. We just have to buzz loud and long enough.
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The US southern Border is Higher in the news even WITH this war going on and many people care a lot more about what is happening on Continent than off. Its far away and not impact in any way to the daily lives of US. The economy, Jobs, border and ton more shit is what it going to be cared about. And I for one really see no reason for the US do anything. This is going to happen again and again and again.

ITs the HISTORY of that part of the world and it not going to change unless some occupies it like the Romans did and for everyone redirect their to hate the new power in charge instead of on themselves.
 
Lafiel said:
Just came back from a pro-palestine rally in Melbourne, Australia. Was surprisingly big around 5-6k people. Met a number of interesting characters including a old ass guy who thought the solution to solving the conflict is to send a bunch of young men over there and give therm swords.. because that's how the conflict in that land was solved 5000-years ago.

One positive feeling I got out of going to the demonstration.. is despite the number of israeli apologists I've been seeing here in this thread and on Facebook combined.. none of them are willing to go and demonstrate to stand up for Israel, they have no balls literally, meanwhile thousands are willing to come out in support of palestine, which gives me a good feeling that the people on the right side of the fence are willing to do something, and come in great numbers too!

Also on a another note there was a zionist counter-rally at the last one and I think it only had 10 people lulz.
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Don't you feel a bit of a hypocrite given Australia is a settler society which dispossessed people and those people never had their land returned and continue to live in squalor? I mean you live on occupied land.
 
EmpReb said:
The US southern Border is Higher in the news even WITH this war going on and many people care a lot more about what is happening on Continent than off. Its far away and not impact in any way to the daily lives of US. The economy, Jobs, border and ton more shit is what it going to be cared about. And I for one really see no reason for the US do anything. This is going to happen again and again and again.

ITs the HISTORY of that part of the world and it not going to change unless some occupies it like the Romans did and for everyone redirect their to hate the new power in charge instead of on themselves.
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The USA don't have to do anything. In fact, it would be very helpful if they just stop doing what they're doing. Blocking the UN and financing Israel's army.

Also the world isn't the same like 50, 100 or 2000 years ago. Globalisation is a thing. And the conflict down there would be a lot more bloody and ruthless if it weren't for the world watching.
 
EmpReb said:
The US southern Border is Higher in the news even WITH this war going on and many people care a lot more about what is happening on Continent than off. Its far away and not impact in any way to the daily lives of US. The economy, Jobs, border and ton more shit is what it going to be cared about. And I for one really see no reason for the US do anything. This is going to happen again and again and again.

ITs the HISTORY of that part of the world and it not going to change unless some occupies it like the Romans did and for everyone redirect their to hate the new power in charge instead of on themselves.
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People are dying. How is that not a reason for the US to do anything? They could start by not vetoing any UN measures directed at Israel.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/07/24/us-stands-alone-vote-against-un-inquiry-gaza-assault

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

JordanN said:
Well I know where this is going so I'm going to wrap it up. I don't think everyone in the IDF are out of their minds. I'm sure there are good people in it who only want to protect their country. It's these people I only want to see honored and not any thugs.

If you think "no, Israel is always wrong, they're evil bla bla bla" then I don't care. I'm only putting up these statements for everyone else to see and to make a [less biased] judgment.
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I know two guys who served in the IDF. Really, really nice people. So I know they exist. Obviously. So I take what they had to say at face value. But there has been so much misinformation, blatant lies coming from Israeli media, that I've become HIGHLY sceptical of soldiers like the one in the video.
 
JordanN said:
Well I know where this is going so I'm going to wrap it up. I don't think everyone in the IDF are out of their minds. I'm sure there are good people in it who only want to protect their country. It's these people I only want to see honored and not any thugs.

If you think "no, Israel is always wrong, they're evil bla bla bla" then I don't care. I'm only putting up these statements for everyone else to see and to make a [less biased] judgment.
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I'd rather do the sensible thing and stick to the humanitarian and independent sources of information on the conflict rather than a paid soldier invested in an outcome beneficial to his side.

but what do you care you're already painting me as anti-Israel.
 
Dabookerman said:
Just watched the Louis Theroux Ultra Zionist programme. If you haven't seen it, watch it here - vimeo.com/54295216
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That's a good documentary and really gives a lot of insight into the minds of the far right. I also recommend American Radical - The Trials of Norman Finkelstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8qDpg_x49Y

Edit:
Real Hero said:
Whatever you think of the guy, this George Galloway speech is great and worth a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0gEzPG82pc
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Thanks for posting this.
 
JordanN said:
Well I know where this is going so I'm going to wrap it up. I don't think everyone in the IDF are out of their minds. I'm sure there are good people in it who only want to protect their country. It's these people I only want to see honored and not any thugs.
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Even if you believe there are some good individuals in there, institutionally its goals and methods are not good.
 
Kenshin001 said:
Don't you feel a bit of a hypocrite given Australia is a settler society which dispossessed people and those people never had their land returned and continue to live in squalor? I mean you live on occupied land.
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You're being silly. Unless he himself displaced people and stole their land, he isn't responsible for it. Plenty of people disagree with what their country does. You can't call someone a hypocrite without knowing what their views are.
 
zer0blivion said:
OxVz96O.png

https://twitter.com/DrBasselAbuward/status/492957416959397889/photo/1
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Is that image actually from this conflict or is it from Syria? If it's the former, it makes the talking point about human shields absolutely fucking OBSCENE. That whole area has been comprehensively levelled.
 
JordanN said:
Compare the evidence. Does one sides' story match up or have authenticity to it?
Hamas can say what they want. But if it's wrong, they're wrong.
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Yes lets ignore the testimony of credible third party sources and take the word of an IDF man.
I recall the IDF making these same human shielding claims of Hezbollah in Lebanon. IDF personnel then admitted in assessments after the battle that Hezbollah in fact had not engaged in a policy of human shielding and fought mostly in abandoned buildings. I can provide links for that, if you wish.
 
Chariot said:
There is a lot to care since the USA financing Israel. But could the american people shown what their taxmoney is doing, how barbaric america's greatest ally is, hell will break loose and they will be forced to draw support. We just have to buzz loud and long enough.
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Unfortunately this has been going on and on for decades and the US support for Israel has been growing instead of decreasing despite some people protesting. There is another angle to this led by vast majority of Christians that also think Israel is the holy land that needs to be protected for the second coming of Jesus. Unless there is a radical change in the thinking in US, US aid will not stop.
 
Another huge demonstration in London

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-Plasma Reus- said:
What if it had been 800 Israelis dead and 35 Palestinians dead?
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In other words, we have been here before. The claim that only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Hamas kills and only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Israel kills (Hamas “terrorists”, of course). And the constant claim, repeated over and over and over, that Israel has the highest standards of any army in the world and would never hurt civilians. I recall here the 17,500 dead of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon, most of whom were civilians. Have we forgotten all this?
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I certainly have not, but many IDF defenders seem to forget the trackhistory of this moral army.
 
TrojanBlade said:
Unfortunately this has been going on and on for decades and the US support for Israel has been growing instead of decreasing despite some people protesting. There is another angle to this led by vast majority of Christians that also think Israel is the holy land that needs to be protected for the second coming of Jesus. Unless there is a radical change in the thinking in US, US aid will not stop.
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Did we ever had such a big support and worldwide demonstrations on that scale for this conflict? The internet is a great way to show the people what happens there and rile them up. Of course there is misinformation, too, but I think we see in this thread that the evidence for Israels crimes and the cruelties of this conflict is hard enough.
 
Did anyone saw the talking with the Israel ambassador or someone from Israel in Al Jazeera English.... in which he say there is Arab country who want Hamas out of the picture...
 
The whole Hamas is using human shields just holds less and less weight as time goes on. It's a joke now. Israel has hit thousands of targets. If civilians didn't leave their house because they didn't want their homes destroyed that does NOT mean that they were human shields. Israel claims that every person staying in their house are human shields by the Hamas. These people don't have anywhere to go. I would take my chances on the rooftops as well trying to prevent the Israel army from destroying what little these people have left.
 
Israel beginning to confirm that the 3 murders were not carried out by Hamas.

Self defence folks, self defence.

Netanyahu and his like should be locked up for life.
 
"They were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by human animals. Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay."-Netanyahu.
Now where is the world press on this? I want to see them report this news with the same vigour they reported on the killings of those three teens and Hamas' alleged responsibility.
 
Step 1. Claim 3 youths killed by Hamas (knowing they weren't).
Step 2. Start a hostile search on the West bank, invading houses of palestinians (arresting and killing them).
Step 3. Use the retaliation of Hamas to the hostile search effort to start a slaughter of innocent lives.

Smart plan. Fuck the IDF and any of its defenders.
 
Kenshin001 said:
Don't you feel a bit of a hypocrite given Australia is a settler society which dispossessed people and those people never had their land returned and continue to live in squalor? I mean you live on occupied land.
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So just because someone lives in Australia or USA they automatically approve of what our countries did to the native populations and are not allowed to criticize Israel? That's quite the stretch. As an American, I think what my country did to the natives is straight up genocide, and worse than anything Israel has done. I think Andrew Jackson in particular is one of the most vile fuckers in history. That's not an excuse for Israel to do whatever the fuck it wants though, just because other countries have done shit just as bad or worse in the past. The Mongols conquered like half the world and killed like 15% of the world population. I guess it's cool for any country to do the same, because hey, the Mongols did it a few hundred years ago!
 
JordanN said:
Well I can't think of a source greater than someone who was there first hand. And as he says, information doesn't get reported or is distorted so it's possible the naysayers are using that.

Unless he's some kind of asshole, I think I can take his word for it. But I definitely want to listen from more account from both sides.
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I couldn't think of a less reliable source than a soldier (on either side). Why would they not lie to make their side look better? Stick to 3rd party sources.
 
The evidence is pilling up against Israel. I put the IDF and their government above Hamas on the list of terrorist organizations. That is based on this deliberate massacre, the massacre in Gaza and the Westbank in the previous years and the massacre of mostly covilians in the Lebanon wars.
 
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