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[Jonm1010]

I am just generally curious because it seems disingenuous to complain about the human toll and being bullied, you have a break to work on diplomatic peace, but then accuse the significantly stronger side of plotting more attacks (maybe true, who knows?) and your recourse for the accusation is to launch rockets at them?

I really don't understand.

Has it been verified that Hamas fired rockets and that it was a direct order from leadership?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Hamas is a crime syndicate that doesn't want peace. They profit from every Israeli bomb and every Western dollar and media piece used for the conflict. Their terrorist leaders are around the world profiting off of these crimes against humanity, and every casualty converts more militants in a vicious cycle.

Then why drop bombs on them?

 

[WonkyPanda]

Has it been verified that Hamas fired rockets and that it was a direct order from leadership?

This is directly from the BBC:

Hamas militants say they have fired several rockets into Israel, rejecting an offer to extend a 12-hour ceasefire in its Gaza operation until 21:00 GMT.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

10 Proofs Hamas uses Civilians as Human Shields.

So Hamas hides in civilian buildings, yet not one of those "proofs" shows Hamas using human shields. Using abandoned hospitals and schools does not qualify.

Regardless, the point is that even if there are instances of Hamas using human shields, it is still a convenient excuse used by the IDF to justify the wanton destruction of Gaza.

No one is upset about an agricultural school getting blown up. But the fact that they are uploading blurry night time videos of empty fields and trying to pass them off as busy schools is proof that that the human shield rhetoric is a major component of the IDF's propaganda machine.

 

[werks]

I am just generally curious because it seems disingenuous to complain about the human toll and being bullied, you have a break to work on diplomatic peace, but then accuse the significantly stronger side of plotting more attacks (maybe true, who knows?) and your recourse for the accusation is to launch rockets at them?

I really don't understand.

Look at what peace has done for the west bank, more settlements, more destruction of palestinian homes, checkpoints, etc

 

[LNBL]

I am just generally curious because it seems disingenuous to complain about the human toll and being bullied, you have a break to work on diplomatic peace, but then accuse the significantly stronger side of plotting more attacks (maybe true, who knows?) and your recourse for the accusation is to launch rockets at them?

I really don't understand.

There were reports of Israel planning to extend their ground operations further into Gaza. Don't assume Israel is aggreeing to peace out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[Quotient]

Let's all just abstain.

Discourse is healthy, but not the discourse in this thread. Just take 2 gaffers from the last few dozen pages from either side and see if you think they'd be able to even get close to a solution.

Most gaffers probably don't have any direct connection to this conflict, yet the emotion and hatred towards the "other" side is intense. You wonder what it must be like for those who are in the conflict.

 

[Jonm1010]

This is directly from the BBC:

Hmm thanks. Seems pretty unwise to me.

 

[knicks]

Excuse me for not following this thread, got a little to long.

I read that Hamas hides weapons and has military bases in places like hospitals and children schools, and this is the reasoning Israel is bombing these places. Is there truth to this?

 

[WonkyPanda]

Look at what peace has done for the west bank, more settlements, more destruction of palestinian homes, checkpoints, etc

And firing rockets is going to do what? At the very least, you must understand that your best position is to not instigate in any manner. There is absolutely nothing to gain from launching rockets into israel right now, except: instigation and more death.

There were reports of Israel planning to extend their ground operations further into Gaza. Don't assume Israel is aggreeing to peace out of the goodness of their hearts.

Again, WHAT is this going to do for Hamas? At the VERY least, wait until ISRAEL breaks the ceasefire and does actually attack. This is nonsensical. I can't be the only one who sees this, right? This is diplomacy and PR 101.

EDIT: It's not like Hamas even has capability to stifle said attack.

 

[Dai101]

Apparently (and i said that since i've no source verifable, just tweets from independent people there) the mortar fire from Hamas was in relation to israel still bombing the tunnels when the cease fire started.

There were reports of Israel planning to extend their ground operations further into Gaza. Don't assume Israel is aggreeing to peace out of the goodness of their hearts.

For that they need to first you know, have one.

 

[Toxi]

Excuse me for not following this thread, got a little to long.

I read that Hamas hides weapons and has military bases in places like hospitals and children schools, and this is the reasoning Israel is bombing these places. Is there truth to this?

We've seen Hamas hide rockets in two schools, both abandoned.

Even if there was truth to this, there is no excuse for bombing a hospital or a UN shelter "because there might be rockets there".

 

[LNBL]

Excuse me for not following this thread, got a little to long.

I read that Hamas hides weapons and has military bases in places like hospitals and children schools, and this is the reasoning Israel is bombing these places. Is there truth to this?

The IDF says yes, Amnesty international, Human rights watch and many reporters says no. It's a matter of who you trust to tell the truth.

 

[Linkhero1]

We've seen Hamas hide rockets in two schools, both abandoned.

Even if there was truth to this, there is no excuse for bombing a hospital or a UN shelter "because there might be rockets there".

Especially when you know there are civilians and UN workers inside.

 

[GYODX]

Excuse me for not following this thread, got a little to long.

I read that Hamas hides weapons and has military bases in places like hospitals and children schools, and this is the reasoning Israel is bombing these places. Is there truth to this?

See for yourself.

 

[Chariot]

Excuse me for not following this thread, got a little to long.

I read that Hamas hides weapons and has military bases in places like hospitals and children schools, and this is the reasoning Israel is bombing these places. Is there truth to this?

Yes, this much is true, but it's just on half the truth. Israel is firing on hospitals and school too, that don't have weapons insde, and playing children. Well, if they flatten everything, they can't miss a weapon stache, I guess.

 

[werks]

So Hamas hides in civilian buildings, yet not one of those "proofs" shows Hamas using human shields. Using abandoned hospitals and schools does not qualify.

You don't need proof, just look at IDF's official reasoning for bombing the UN shelter.

"Hamas used the site couple of days ago, so we bombed it 3 days later. All civilian casualties is Hamas' fault even though Hamas wasn't there when we bombed it"

Even if everything that the IDF claims is true (believing anything the IDF says at this point is pretty stupid), what kind of fucked up thinking is it. Someone used that building days ago, even thought we know it's full of civilians and UN, we are still going to attack it.

 

[LNBL]

Discourse is healthy, but not the discourse in this thread. Just take 2 gaffers from the last few dozen pages from either side and see if you think they'd be able to even get close to a solution.

Most gaffers probably don't have any direct connection to this conflict, yet the emotion and hatred towards the "other" side is intense. You wonder what it must be like for those who are in the conflict.

You don't need to have any ditect connection to the conflict to feel sad for seeing 1000 people dead. You call it emotion and hatred to the other side, while most people in this thread are discussing for the sake of the innocent civilians caight in the middle.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

How convenient.



Hamas is an internationally recognised terrorist organisation currently making arms deals with North fucking Korea.

Israel is a democratic, modern and progressive country that has a right to remove threats to the every day lives of those who live here.



This would be the...4th? ceasefire Hamas has rejected so far?

*shoots you in foot* hopefully when you get better you'll decide to give me your house

 

[Jonm1010]

Discourse is healthy, but not the discourse in this thread. Just take 2 gaffers from the last few dozen pages from either side and see if you think they'd be able to even get close to a solution.

Most gaffers have probably don't have any direct connection to this conflict, yet the emotion and hatred of the "other" side is intense. You wonder what it must be like for those who are in the conflict.

I don't get this at all. As someone who is relatively naive to the recent goings on in gaza(studied the conflict years ago in college but still) this thread, and others, has been immensely helpful.

There are some clear cut partisans here that are not arguing in good faith or with solid supporting evidence but they are easy to identify and are often called out for it. This has been a much better place to get a realistic picture of the conflict compared to mainstream news outlets for me TBH.

Tensions and emotions are high and some people have said some pretty outlandish things in anger or disgust but that can be said for almost any highly divisive political topic.

 

[Toxi]

See for yourself.

Notice that the school was vacant.

 

[Abounder]

It has been a while since we heard te "hamas does not want peace" and "Hamas wants the covilians dead to use as propaganda and profit" arguments.

I'm sure any other group op people from other countries or religions would live in peace under occupation. An occupation that denies them many Human rights.

Hamas is an extreme terrorist organization that does not profit from peace. Note that I am not justifying casualties and have called this situation for both sides as 'crimes against humanity'.

I am just generally curious because it seems disingenuous to complain about the human toll and being bullied, you have a break to work on diplomatic peace, but then accuse the significantly stronger side of plotting more attacks (maybe true, who knows?) and your recourse for the accusation is to launch rockets at them?

I really don't understand.

It doesn't make sense for the civilians that want peace. But it does make sense for crime syndicates like Hamas because the vicious cycle brings more extremists and weapons to their cause.

Then why drop bombs on them?

Eye for a thousand eyes. Western powers tend to retaliate with overwhelming force. Russia/China as well. Nation-states don't tolerate being shelled at.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Israel could well be all that you say, they still murdered 1000 people in Gaza, all jusified by a lie created by Netanyahu and his agenda. They are as much part of a terrorist organization as Hamas is.

Ah, the three teenagers? How quick you are to believe those unconfirmed tweets. Still, few in Israel care about that now, especially after the discovery of the terror tunnels.

Netanyahu's "agenda" includes doves like Livni. Israelis in general support the military action

You're making it very easy, yes.
Hamas isn't internationally recognized as terrorist organisation, mostly in the USA and their allies.

The United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organisation.

Your blog sucks.

It's not my blog, but thanks for your contribution to this thread.

Link me proof the schools were ever occupied when the rockets were stored? Your blog conveniently leaves out any evidence trail. Just a photo and his interpretation that already selectively chose not to mention that at least one of the schools was abandoned.

The school you refer to was abandoned as it was part of a complex of three schools being used to house some 1500 displaced persons.

The fact you are so quick to share and stand behind a blog that is completely one sided and is riddled with inaccuracies over international investigations shows me your judgement and account of reality is not to be trusted.

Riddled with inaccuracies that you are completely unable to show me? You attack one of the ten proofs the blog provides.

My account of the reality in the Middle East is first hand as I live in it.

I know you're probably being paid for this, but come the fuck on.

Accusing posters on GAF of being shills is bannable.

So, why did Hamas fire rockets back at Israel to reject the ceasefire? What's the objective there as the Israeli cabinet is working on a longer ceasefire proposal to the UN?

Because terrorists.

I'm sure any other group op people from other countries or religions would live in peace under occupation. An occupation that denies them many Human rights.

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Even Hamas says this.

 

[GYODX]

Hamas shoots rockets and rejects offer to extend humanitarian cease-fire.

What a surprise.

 

[Toxi]

It doesn't make sense for the civilians that want peace. But it does make sense for crime syndicates like Hamas because the vicious cycle brings more extremists and weapons to their cause.

You could say the same about the Israeli government.

Eye for a thousand eyes. Western powers tend to retaliate with overwhelming force.

And when you say that profits Hamas, why are they doing it?

 

[GYODX]

Notice that the school was vacant.

Do you think that makes it any better? Of all the places Hamas has to hide its rockets, they choose to hide them on UN premises. Maybe ask yourself why?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Even Hamas says this.

...you can't be serious. You're just trolling at this point.

Do you think that makes it any better? Of all the places Hamas has to hide its rockets, they choose to hide them on UN premises. Maybe ask yourself why?

...maybe because they're trying to hide them?

 

[Dabookerman]

Jon Snow's thoughts on the Children of Gaza (not that Jon Snow)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Hamas shoots rockets and rejects offer to extend humanitarian cease-fire.

What a surprise.

Actually they want a 24h-extension of the cease-fire:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607272

See for yourself.

Weapons in 2 vacant schools are a justification for bombing schools full of refugees?

 

[Toxi]

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Even Hamas says this.

The UN considers it occupied.

Do you think that makes it any better? Of all the places Hamas has to hide its rockets, they choose to hide them on UN premises. Maybe ask yourself why?

Because Hamas are a bunch of assholes.

Still, there is no evidence of them hiding rockets in a populated school or hospital, yet Israel bombs those areas anyway. There is no justification for bombing them, and it's disheartening to see you excuse civilian casualties like that.

 

[Linkhero1]

Do you think that makes it any better? Of all the places Hamas has to hide its rockets, they choose to hide them on UN premises. Maybe ask yourself why?

How does this make it okay for IDF to bomb a UN school they know had civilians and staff?

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

The UN considers it occupied.

And Hamas doesn't.

The UN isn't firing rockets at Israel.

 

[GYODX]

...you can't be serious. You're just trolling at this point.


...maybe because they're trying to hide them?

You didn't answer the question. Why, of all places, do they choose to hide their weapons in UN premises?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You didn't answer the question. Why, of all places, do they choose to hide their weapons in UN premises?

Because it was vacant.

 

[Toxi]

And Hamas doesn't.

The UN isn't firing rockets at Israel.

According to you, Hamas is an extremist terrorist organization who wants violence and benefits from this attack. Why should you trust their word over the UN?

 

[Jonm1010]

Ah, the three teenagers? How quick you are to believe those unconfirmed tweets. Still, few in Israel care about that now, especially after the discovery of the terror tunnels.

Netanyahu's "agenda" includes doves like Livni. Israelis in general support the military action



The United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organisation.




It's not my blog, but thanks for your contribution to this thread.



The school you refer to was abandoned as it was part of a complex of three schools being used to house some 1500 displaced persons.



Riddled with inaccuracies that you are completely unable to show me? You attack one of the ten proofs the blog provides.

My account of the reality in the Middle East is first hand as I live in it.



Accusing posters on GAF of being shills is bannable.



Because terrorists.



Israel does not occupy Gaza. Even Hamas says this.

So both of them were abandoned. So they weren't human shielding? So I am right to question the validity of your blog. And still no mention of the numerous reports and accounts that human shielding isn't going on as it is portrayed by the IDF. Nor any comment on Israelis use of human shields?

You read like a propaganda spambot throwing out anything that supports your argument no matter how flimsy and ignoring anything contrary. When a person is only looking for evidence to support the conclusions he's already made before hand, it's a good rule of thumb of mine to seek my information elsewhere.

 

[GYODX]

The UN considers it occupied.

Because Hamas are a bunch of assholes.

Still, there is no evidence of them hiding rockets in a populated school or hospital, yet Israel bombs those areas anyway. There is no justification for bombing them, and it's disheartening to see you excuse civilian casualties like that.

As far as International Law is concerned, hospitals lose their protection if they're being used for military purposes, actually.

I established this when I quoted the Fourth Geneva Convention a couple of dozen pages ago.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

You didn't answer the question. Why, of all places, do they choose to hide their weapons in UN premises?

Didn't think I'd need to spell it out so explicit. They want to hide weapons, and an abandoned UN building probably makes a great hiding location. Should they be hiding them all in large easily identifiable depots instead?

 

[Ingueferroque]

Jon Snow's thoughts on the Children of Gaza (not that Jon Snow)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

Oh man.

 

[Abounder]

You could say the same about the Israeli government.


And when you say that profits Hamas, why are they doing it?

Definitely.

Hamas does it to get more bombs and extremists. They don't want peace.

And on a sidenote I think Israel is basically fucked. We've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan just how worthless years of Western influence and support can be after the ISIS raids and other extremists take over

 

[werks]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._questions_about_the_war_and_palestinian.html

Israel’s Media Blackout

Why aren’t Israeli journalists questioning their military’s devastation in Gaza?

When Israel launched Operation Cast Lead in 2008 to stop Hamas rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israeli journalists were hungry to cover the military operational details. They wanted to know how many Hamas militants had been killed or captured, what of the terrorist group’s infrastructure had been hit, what remained on the Israel Defense Forces’ target list, and so on. What didn’t interest most newspapers or newscasts was the wider impact on the other side, especially the civilian death toll. If there was any questioning, it wasn’t why so many Palestinians were being killed, but why the campaign hadn’t started sooner. By the time Israel launched Pillar of Defense, its next Gaza military offensive in 2012, the Israeli media watchdog group Keshev concluded that the war had “blurred the distinction between the IDF spokesperson and Israeli media outlets more than ever.”

The same can be said today.

Israeli journalists, many of whom I have known and admired during nearly two decades of reporting on this conflict, are skilled. They can be relentless questioners, brutal in their analysis, and still maintain their access to key figures. Give them a good old-fashioned financial or sex scandal and they’ll make that politician wish he’d never run for office. Just ask former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert or former President Moshe Katsav how the coverage of their trials went.

Few Israeli journalists have cultivated Palestinian sources because there is amazingly little interest among the Israeli public in understanding Palestinian affairs.
But in times of war, many, if not most, Israeli journalists—with some admirable exceptions—hunker down with the rest of the country and are afraid to ask tough questions, especially in the early days of a military campaign. Instead, they tend to parrot the country’s political and military leaders. (The Hebrew phrase critics have for journalists in these times is—meguyasim—the drafted, or recruited.) Israelis are barred from entering Gaza. And with that access cut off, few Israeli journalists have cultivated Palestinian sources because there is amazingly little interest among the Israeli public in understanding Palestinian affairs.

It helps explain why Israel and the world see the war in Gaza so differently. With their country under fire by rockets and with soldiers fighting and now dying on the battlefield, the Israeli journalists’ role transforms from dogged inquirer to purveyor of piecemeal information provided by the military. Patriotism suddenly trumps any duty to report impartially. That leaves Israelis—many of whom even in this global media age turn exclusively to Hebrew-language news sources—an incomplete and skewed picture of what is happening. Public support for the war is bolstered. And the narrative put forth by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about Gaza and Hamas simply becomes the consensus.

American media, some would argue, acted similarly by failing to question intelligence on Saddam Hussein’s alleged weapons of mass destruction before the Iraq war. But the situations are decidedly different. There just isn’t the same intimate relationship between the American press and the military the way there is in Israel, where everyone serves and the IDF remains the most vaunted institution. In 2003, there was a multitude of voices in the American media arguing against the war. Today in Israel there are very few speaking out against this campaign, however ill-advised it may seem to the outside world.

The few who do are vehemently criticized. “You're a traitor!,” a man yelled at Gideon Levy, a Haaretz columnist, as he was being interviewed on a street corner about a column he wrote criticizing Israeli pilots for carrying out bombing runs in Gaza. “Have you no shame? You should be the one to live with Hamas. We have the most ethical fighter pilots. You think children should spend the summer holiday in a bomb shelter? Shame on you!” One newspaper reported that Israel Channel 2’s telephone circuits crashed after the flood of calls protesting even having him on air. Similarly, the Israel Broadcasting Authority banned a radio broadcast produced by a human rights organization because it included the names of some of the Palestinian children who have died in Israel’s shelling. Israel’s regulators claimed the content was too “politically controversial.”

In a climate where almost any dissent is deemed treason, Israeli media mostly choose to limit the coverage of what is actually happening in Gaza, lest they be accused of siding with the enemy or undermining the state when it is under attack.

Long before this calamitous war, fatigue with the issue and a dramatic drop in Palestinian attacks on Israelis allowed the country to turn inward and pretend the conflict had gone away. The public wanted to read about Israel’s hi-tech successes, not its military occupation. Most Israelis have today, in fact, become decidedly post-Palestinian, and as a result so has the media. That is why, for many, this war feels like it came out of nowhere, even if it was entirely predictable.

The lack of interest is not mirrored on the Palestinian side. “Can you believe what happened?” a Palestinian woman asked me on a 2010 trip to Gaza while I was reporting for the Washington Post. I had no idea what she was talking about. An Israeli man had killed his wife in a shocking case of domestic violence. She had heard about it on the radio.

Israelis rely on their hourly mivzak (news update) on the radio; the prime-time evening broadcast on Channel 1, 2, or 10; and commentary in the mass-circulation dailies Yedioth Ahronoth and Maariv—colorful tabloids that place serious news and analysis alongside photos of bikini-clad beachgoers. Haaretz—the most daring in its criticism of the military campaign—is one of the most widely read Israeli newspapers abroad (in English translation), but it is the least-read major paper in Israel. Israelis are ravenous news consumers—about themselves.

Sunday night’s prime-time broadcast of Mabat, the Channel 1 Israeli news show, was emblematic of the coverage. It was almost exclusively devoted to the deaths of 13 Israeli soldiers. It was understandable. Practically every Israeli Jew knows someone who has been called up to fight in Gaza, and those deaths represented the highest single-day military death toll in eight years. That is what viewers wanted to see reported.

Reporters were stationed in Israel near the Gaza border, at the hospitals, and at the funerals—everywhere but Gaza itself. Even though the government forbids Israelis from entering Gaza, the channel didn’t bother to have an American, European, or Palestinian journalist report on what was happening on the ground there.

As the Mabat newscast aired, reports of scores of Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli forces in the eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Shejaia—the deadliest day of this operation so far—were already hours old and dominating international news outlets’ coverage. Brutal, horrific images of dead children were everywhere. Netanyahu would later refer to some of these images as “telegenically dead Palestinians.” Early in the broadcast, one Israeli reporter made a passing reference to the civilian deaths by saying Hamas was using the images of Shejaia against Israel internationally—essentially aping the message from the Israeli government itself.

Near the end of the hour-and-eight-minute broadcast, a three-minute package on Shejaia, put together from Arab network footage, finally aired. The Israeli reporter introduced the segment by saying there were allegations that more than 60 Palestinians—mostly women and children—had been killed and that the Israeli military had warned residents to evacuate days earlier. While viewers got some sense of the destruction, the reporter said he was sparing Israeli viewers the most gruesome images of victims being shown elsewhere.

In the middle of the newscast, the anchors had cut to Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon addressing the nation. “We have to be united together, strong, in difficult days like this,” Netanyahu said. “We are in a fight for our home,’’ he added, framing the battle as a matter of survival.

Everything Netanyahu said was intended to make this war seem absolutely necessary. “We didn’t choose this,” he said. He talked about the need to destroy Hamas’ tunnels—the ostensible reason for the ground invasion—so they couldn’t be used for a future attack.

The first question from an Israeli journalist was smart. He asked if the tunnels were an existential threat, why did Israel agree to a cease-fire five days earlier that would have precluded the current ground offensive? Netanyahu replied that the tunnels could have been dealt with through diplomacy had Hamas agreed to a cease-fire.

It was an astonishing acknowledgment that the ground operation may not have been necessary—that there may have been a peaceful way to solve the problem. Still, no reporters followed up. Netanyahu and Ya’alon were left to brag about the success of the operation so far.

Questions that went unasked:

Is it for this limited tactical achievement—destroying some of the tunnels—that the IDF is killing so many Palestinian children and so many young Israeli soldiers are dying?

I know Hamas rejected the original cease-fire plan. But if you are acknowledging that this could be resolved diplomatically, why didn’t Israel continue to negotiate the terms of the cease-fire and try to avoid this escalation?

If Israel weakens Hamas too much, are Israelis going to actually regret this when al-Qaida­–type groups gain more of a footing there?

How long will it take for Hamas to build new tunnels?

These are just some of the most basic questions that aren’t being posed. Instead, given the lamentable reticence of the ordinarily aggressive Israeli press corps, Netanyahu has silenced any broad questioning of his strategy. And it’s working: A poll this week showed 80 percent of the Israeli public supports the operation and 94 percent are satisfied with the military’s performance.

If the war drags on and Israeli military casualties mount without a clear end game, more Israeli journalists will surely become more critical. But for now there remains little dissent. Indeed, if anything, there is cheerleading. As Ben Caspit, one of Israel’s most influential analysts, wrote in the daily Maariv on Monday: “We need to continue to grit our teeth, shut our ears and get the job done.”

There’s been too much discussion of how social media is shaping how this war is being perceived abroad. Facebook and Twitter are simply vehicles for pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian advocates to have a vitriolic, virtual slugfest. How Netanyahu continues to maintain wide support for this offensive has more to do with how the leading Israeli writers and news outlets allow him to shape the story. Diplomats will never get Israel to explore alternatives to this military option until the Israeli press leads a domestic debate that is as honest and exhaustive as its democracy deserves.

In case anyone was wondering why the Israeli's seem so tone deaf.

 

[Chumly]

Hamas is a crime syndicate that doesn't want peace. They profit from every Israeli bomb and every Western dollar and media piece used for the conflict. Their terrorist leaders are around the world profiting off of these crimes against humanity, and every casualty converts more militants in a vicious cycle.

IDF is a crime syndicate that doesn't want peace. They profit from every Hamas rocket and every Western dollar and media piece used for the conflict. Their terrorist leaders are around the world profiting off of these crimes against humanity, and every casualty converts more IDF militants in a vicious cycle.

In fact I would say that the statement is more true for IDF than it is Hamas.

 

[Buzzman]

As far as International Law is concerned, hospitals lose their protection if they're being used for military purposes, actually.

I established this when I quoted the Fourth Geneva Convention a couple of dozen pages ago.

Cool, now show me that they were used for military purposes.

 

[Toxi]

As far as International Law is concerned, hospitals lose their protection if they're being used for military purposes, actually.

I established this when I quoted the Fourth Geneva Convention a couple of dozen pages ago.

There is no evidence the hospitals were being used for military purposes.

You are defending the murder of innocent people.

 

[zer0blivion]

See for yourself.

Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked
http://m.thenation.com/article/180783-five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked

Feel free to try to refute that.

 

[Linkhero1]

As far as International Law is concerned, hospitals lose their protection if they're being used for military purposes, actually.

I established this when I quoted the Fourth Geneva Convention a couple of dozen pages ago.

Did the school that was staffed with UN workers and civilians lose protection? Again, why did IDF attack a school they knew had UN staff and civilians? Why didn't they allow them to leave? Why did they ignore UN's request to evacuate?

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

According to you, Hamas is an extremist terrorist organization who wants violence and benefits from this attack. Why should you trust their word over the UN?

Why would they chose to lie about their motive?

Surely painting the picture of their motive being "resistance to occupation" presents them in a far more liberal-friendly light than for religious (ie, Jihad) reasons.

 

[Abounder]

IDF is a crime syndicate that doesn't want peace. They profit from every Hamas rocket and every Western dollar and media piece used for the conflict. Their terrorist leaders are around the world profiting off of these crimes against humanity, and every casualty converts more IDF militants in a vicious cycle.

In fact I would say that the statement is more true for IDF than it is Hamas.

Yup it's a vicious cycle. Western powers deem Hamas as a terrorist organization but as we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan Western support only matters so much

 

[Toxi]

Why would they chose to lie about their motive?

Surely painting the picture of their motive being "resistance to occupation" presents them in a far more liberal-friendly light than for religious (ie, Jihad) reasons.

So basically, pro-Israelis argue we can't trust Hamas to want peace or justice because they're an extremist terrorist organization, and argue we can trust Hamas over the UN because "why would Hamas lie?" And apparently the UN hate Israel and are liars.

Amazing.

 

[GYODX]

Oh, and for the people who said only Israel claims that Hamas uses human shield tactics.