Support NeoGAF

[RpgN]

I hope my edit clarified my position.

Your comment with that in mind doesn't make a lot of sense. It is focused on the press and the use of social media while some of my examples don't.

Even so, let's focus on that part then. It still doesn't make a lot of sense what you're saying. I do think there are extreme people from Palestine and terrorists that are in the wrong, but I think many of them is more a consequence for how they been treated for many decades. I don't see Palestinian people attack journalists or mock the lives of innocent children.

 

[Ashes]

See it's the freedom of press in Israel that is the reason why you hear so much. Do you hear about human rights abuses in China or Saudi Arabia?

Edit: alright I'll stop now. Cognitive dissonance is tiring.

 

[Dopus]

No, I am saying that on an uneven playing field, it's only normal more stories will come out of how fucked up Israel is.

Although we do have some insight of how messed up things can get in Palestine, even without Israeli intervention.

I think in the case of this conflict, it's warranted.

 

[pgtl_10]

this fucking pic again! It is so full of bullshit and is so misleading.

I don't understand how is it misleading.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Looking and whats happening how do you actually communicate to a Palestinian to not vote for Hamas, or even to not join Hamas?

Israel is an enabler. Drive everyone mad, make Hamas a viable option, then proceed to kill because Hamas.

Too bad the people in that hellhole are out of options. Either die from a rocket or get fucked like in the West Bank. There is no option c.

Truth

 

[MisterFalcon]

Are you seriously using whataboutisms? Go start a thread about those if you see them as such a problem.

No, it's a list of reasons why there will be no 185 million man strong Army of Islam coming to liberate Palestine.

 

[Kurdel]

And you completely missed his point.

No, I understood.

Both states have governments that are divisive, and only won with slim votes.

To throw the baby out with the bath water is why people keep hating each other, forever. So to say "they elected, so they deserve", isn't a strong argument from any side.

Your comment with that in mind doesn't make a lot of sense. It is focused on the press and the use of social media while some of my examples don't.

Even so, let's focus on that part then. It still doesn't make a lot of sense what you're saying. I do think there are extreme people from Palestine and terrorists that are in the wrong, but I think many of them is more a consequence for how they been treated for many decades. I don't see Palestinian people attack journalists or mock the lives of innocent children.

Did you read the wiki page I linked? I am sceptical of both governments and would trust neither with my life TBH. (Beig an Atheist, I doubt wither side would care about me anyway).

 

[RpgN]

While reading previous comments from this thread, I watched a youtube link and then found this documentary by accident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqL048x4msM

As a person who has been trying to learn more about this topic only for the past week or so, what the HELL is going here?! Is this really happening? Why?

Edit:

Did you read the wiki page I linked? I am sceptical of both governments and would trust neither with my life TBH. (Beig an Atheist, I doubt wither side would care about me anyway).

I'm not seeing any link with your quotes aimed at me? Can you link them again?

 

[LNBL]

 

[Kurdel]

Horrible.

And the Israeli's in their basements who think they have it bad...

 

[Dopus]

173,123 people with more by the day.

 

[Toxi]

Horrible.

And the Israeli's in their basements who think they have it bad...

I'm not sure what you mean by this comment.

 

[RpgN]

Horrible.

And the Israeli's in their basements who think they have it bad...

Not sure if you saw my edited comment.

 

[LNBL]

Was this video of Jon Snow posted?

http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video

Edit: found it on previous pages.

 

[Chariot]

Was this video of Jon Snow posted?

http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video

Yes, but it isn't wrong to post it again. It's short, but powerful.

 

[MacNille]

I don't understand how is it misleading.

Then read up on your history.
Number one: There was no state of Palestine before 1948. It was under a brittish mandate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

Number two. The map doesn't mention the 1948 arabic-Israel war, where Israel got attacked by nerealy every single arabic state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_war

Number 3. It doesn't mention that Gaza and the west bank was under Egypt and Jordanian control between 1948-1967. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Gaza_Strip_by_Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank


Do you want me to go on?

 

[Kurdel]

I'm not sure what you mean by this comment.

Go watch reports on the iron dome, and the Jewish settlers describing how their lives are impacted by the missile alerts, and they have to go to their basement shelters.

It's like, first world problems compared to the hell the people in Gaza are living.

 

[Kurdel]

Not sure if you saw my edited comment.

I was talking about this wiki page.

edit: sry for DP, i wanted to edit and post a link on my phone, bad idea.

 

[Chariot]

Go watch reports on the iron dome, and the Jewish settlers describing how their lives are impacted by the missile alerts, and they have to go to their basement shelters.

It's like, first world problems compared to the hell the people in Gaza are living.

Let's not downplay the fear of the Israeli. The average Ariel don't fire rockets on the palestinensi. There is no reason we should play the "but they..."-game. It never ends good.

 

[zer0blivion]

Then read up on your history.
Number one: There was no state of Palestine before 1948. It was under a brittish mandate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

Number two. The map doesn't mention the 1948 arabic-Israel war, where Israel got attacked by nerealy every single arabic state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_war

Number 3. It doesn't mention that Gaza and the west bank was under Egypt and Jordanian control between 1948-1967. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Gaza_Strip_by_Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank


Do you want me to go on?

On January 24, 2014, Dr. Hani Faris, adjunct professor of political science at the University of British Columbia, spoke to a packed hall at Simon Fraser University on “The Historical Context of the Palestine Maps: Fact and Fiction” at an event sponsored by the Palestine Awareness Coalition. Watch Dr. Faris’ talk below:
Dr Hani Faris: Historical Context of the Palestin…: http://youtu.be/TzWJDqYx6NM

 

[RpgN]

I was talking about this wiki page.

edit: sry for DP, i wanted to edit and post a link on my phone, bad idea.

Thank you, I'll take a look at it soon

 

[BMAN]

On January 24, 2014, Dr. Hani Faris, adjunct professor of political science at the University of British Columbia, spoke to a packed hall at Simon Fraser University on “The Historical Context of the Palestine Maps: Fact and Fiction” at an event sponsored by the Palestine Awareness Coalition. Watch Dr. Faris’ talk below:
Dr Hani Faris: Historical Context of the Palestin…: http://youtu.be/TzWJDqYx6NM

I had the pleasure of taking 421B Arab Gov't and Poli with Dr. Faris. That guy knows everything there is to know about the Middle East.

 

[Dai101]

Yesterday 6000 people gathered in Rabin Square in Tel Aviv to protest against the war. Afterwards, several rightists followed some of us home and I know of at least one guy that's in a hospital. Friends abroad - Please continue pressuring your governments, because the battle from inside seems like it's going to be a hard one :\

My best wishes are with you and your people. Believe me the support even for more minuscule it looks is still bigger than do nothing.

In other news:

Iran, Hezbollah break with Assad to support Hamas

A political official in Hamas confirmed to Al-Monitor that Khaled Meshaal, head of Hamas’ politburo, has recently received phone calls from Tehran initiated by Ali Larijani, chairman of the Shura Council, Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif and a senior Revolutionary Guard officer whose name he did not mention.

Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah called Meshaal on July 20. This was the first official contact between Hezbollah and Hamas since April, a Hamas official informed Al-Monitor.

Hezbollah’s official website reported that, during his phone call with Meshaal, “Nasrallah praised the steadfastness of the resistance fighters in Gaza,” stressing that he “stands next to the Palestinian resistance and supports its conditions to end the battle.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/nasralla-relation-renewed-hamas.html#


Rula Jebreal Calls out MSNBC: Whoever’s Doing Their PR ‘Needs to Rethink’ Things

Former MSNBC foreign affairs commentator Rula Jebreal appeared on CNN’s Reliable Sources Sunday morning to discuss her tumultuous week that saw her criticizing MSNBC on one of its own shows for neglecting Palestinian voices, having her subsequent appearances on the network canceled, and then being labelled a “Palestinian journalist” when she returned to debate the incident with Chris Hayes.

It was this last part that seemed to really anger Jebreal. “I felt terrible,” she said. “I was hired by MSNBC and for two years I was labelled as analyst, journalist, foreign policy expert. I was never labelled a Palestinian journalist…Who does that? Is this how we label people? Whoever is doing this PR campaign for MSNBC needs to rethink these issues.”

Jebreal was an MSNBC contributor until her contract expired last month.

“Did I become Palestinian because this way you can describe me as emotional and as biased, and can avoid debate as to who is really biased on these issues?” she continued. “They need to give these answers not to me, but to their audience.”

Video inside the article here: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rula-jeb...evers-doing-their-pr-needs-to-rethink-things/

 

[The Last Emperor]

On January 24, 2014, Dr. Hani Faris, adjunct professor of political science at the University of British Columbia, spoke to a packed hall at Simon Fraser University on “The Historical Context of the Palestine Maps: Fact and Fiction” at an event sponsored by the Palestine Awareness Coalition. Watch Dr. Faris’ talk below:
Dr Hani Faris: Historical Context of the Palestin…: http://youtu.be/TzWJDqYx6NM

I went to this. Great event

 

[Dash27]

Go watch reports on the iron dome, and the Jewish settlers describing how their lives are impacted by the missile alerts, and they have to go to their basement shelters.

It's like, first world problems compared to the hell the people in Gaza are living.

Because you'd be ok living with going to bomb shelters every day obviously. No big deal.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Msnbc is worse than fox when it comes to Israel Palestinian conflict and msnbc is predominantly liberal. How does that happen ?!

 

[kobashi100]

My best wishes are with you and your people. Believe me the support even for more minuscule it looks is still bigger than do nothing.

In other news:

Iran, Hezbollah break with Assad to support Hamas



Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/nasralla-relation-renewed-hamas.html#


Rula Jebreal Calls out MSNBC: Whoever’s Doing Their PR ‘Needs to Rethink’ Things

Former MSNBC foreign affairs commentator Rula Jebreal appeared on CNN’s Reliable Sources Sunday morning to discuss her tumultuous week that saw her criticizing MSNBC on one of its own shows for neglecting Palestinian voices, having her subsequent appearances on the network canceled, and then being labelled a “Palestinian journalist” when she returned to debate the incident with Chris Hayes.

It was this last part that seemed to really anger Jebreal. “I felt terrible,” she said. “I was hired by MSNBC and for two years I was labelled as analyst, journalist, foreign policy expert. I was never labelled a Palestinian journalist…Who does that? Is this how we label people? Whoever is doing this PR campaign for MSNBC needs to rethink these issues.”

Jebreal was an MSNBC contributor until her contract expired last month.

“Did I become Palestinian because this way you can describe me as emotional and as biased, and can avoid debate as to who is really biased on these issues?” she continued. “They need to give these answers not to me, but to their audience.”

Video inside the article here: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rula-jeb...evers-doing-their-pr-needs-to-rethink-things/

While at the same time Nasralla has supported Assad slaughter Palestinian refugees in Syria.

 

[werks]

Msnbc is worse than fox when it comes to Israel Palestinian conflict and msnbc is predominantly liberal. How does that happen ?!

Because Israel support/opposition cross party lines.

There are plenty of liberals who support Israel. The american jewish community is also mostly liberal. Conservative evangelicals also strongly support Israel because of the bible. There is also the general opposition to any "muslim extremists".

Opposition also comes from liberals & conservatives who are sickened by the occupation. Libertarians might also oppose Israel from a strictly non interventionist position and ofcourse there are always anti semites who hate jews period.

 

[Dopus]

Because you'd be ok living with going to bomb shelters every day obviously. No big deal.

He was making a comparison between life from the Palestinian perspective to life from an Israeli one. What's your problem?

 

[Dash27]

He was making a comparison between life from the Palestinian perspective to life from an Israeli one. What's your problem?

He was blowing off the thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israel by Hamas. This is implicit in most of the Hamas supporters: "The rockets barely kill anyone". As if that makes it ok, and nobody should try and stop it. "But so many people die!" Yes even more reason not to do it and more reason to disarm Hamas. "It's disproportionate!" Well what is "proportionate" in the first place and what method is proportionate that also makes the rockets stop? "Crickets"

The fact is that the reason for the horrible conditions of the people in Gaza are due to those rockets and tunnels, specifically the need to eliminate them. That and the fact that Hamas stores weapons pretty much everywhere in Gaza. So a densely populated area with munitions (and thus targets) everywhere. There isn't much alternative.

 

[King_Moc]

He was blowing off the thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israel by Hamas. This is implicit in most of the Hamas supporters: "The rockets barely kill anyone". As if that makes it ok, and nobody should try and stop it. "But so many people die!" Yes even more reason not to do it and more reason to disarm Hamas. "It's disproportionate!" Well what is "proportionate" in the first place and what method is proportionate that also makes the rockets stop? "Crickets"

The correct method would be to give them their land back and fuck off out of Gaza.

 

[speculawyer]

He was blowing off the thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israel by Hamas. This is implicit in most of the Hamas supporters: "The rockets barely kill anyone". As if that makes it ok, and nobody should try and stop it. "But so many people die!" Yes even more reason not to do it and more reason to disarm Hamas. "It's disproportionate!" Well what is "proportionate" in the first place and what method is proportionate that also makes the rockets stop? "Crickets"

The fact is that the reason for the horrible conditions of the people in Gaza are due to those rockets and tunnels, specifically the need to eliminate them. That and the fact that Hamas stores weapons pretty much everywhere in Gaza. So a densely populated area with munitions (and thus targets) everywhere. There isn't much alternative.

Don't you think the horrible conditions also cause people to create those rockets & tunnels?

 

[Dai101]

While at the same time Nasralla has supported Assad slaughter Palestinian refugees in Syria.

Politics i guess, i'm not really trilled by this either and not really informed in the whole Syrian issue. If someone wants to chime in i'll be grateful. Besides, the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" goes against my morals.

Now, in the vein of the last post dealing with the american media bias:

As Gazans Pull Bodies from the Rubble, the NY Times Strives to Give Israel the Moral High Ground

There is a bright spot in The New York Times today, a story out of Gaza by Ben Hubbard, but the editors would rather you placed your attention elsewhere, on their efforts to sell the Israeli point of view over the news of Palestinian deaths.

The front page of the print edition gives us a teaser, “One-Sided Cease-Fire in Gaza,” directing readers to a Page 10 article on Israel’s acceptance of a ceasefire extension, an agreement rejected by Hamas. The online edition also prominently displayed this story.

Meanwhile, Hubbard’s story is relegated to the bottom of the page and tagged with a skewed headline: “Pause in the Fighting Gives Civilians on Both Sides a Moment to Take Stock.” This implies parity in the experiences of the two populations, but the article makes it clear that there is no such thing.

“The 12-hour lull granted people an ability to move,” he writes, “with Israelis visiting their troops and Palestinians discovering damaged neighborhoods and dead bodies.” The story tells of “vast destruction” that “in places stretched for blocks.” In the Gaza area called Beit Hanoun, “scores of buildings, including a hospital and a mosque had been damaged or destroyed.”

More at the link: http://timeswarp.org/2014/07/27/as-...strives-to-give-israel-the-moral-high-ground/


Now, in a lighter note, the Hasbarah Bingo Card:

SOURCE: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/hasbarah-bingo.html

 

[Akainu]

Msnbc is worse than fox when it comes to Israel Palestinian conflict and msnbc is predominantly liberal. How does that happen ?!

I find that unbelievable. I don't expect anything from them but worse than fox. Them getting rid of that woman was shit. But did fox have anyone that even pretends to care?

 

[zer0blivion]

Now, in a lighter note, the Hasbarah Bingo Card:

SOURCE: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/hasbarah-bingo.html

This is amazing.

Edit: Jewish Voice for Peace tweeted this earlier today:
Though outdated, this report is an excellent intro to structure of Israel's PR apparatus: http://t.co/0NceNxf9da http://t.co/wChGwoIRzQ

 

[Dash27]

The correct method would be to give them their land back and fuck off out of Gaza.

Don't you think the horrible conditions also cause people to create those rockets & tunnels?

I think that pulling settlers out of Gaza by Israel was a huge step in the right direction and the result was the election of Hamas, which was 10 steps back. Among other things leading to the naval blockade and the need for increased border security which makes things horrible for the people there.

 

[Akainu]

Bill Maher was all on the bottom left one.

 

[Dopus]

He was blowing off the thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israel by Hamas. This is implicit in most of the Hamas supporters: "The rockets barely kill anyone". As if that makes it ok, and nobody should try and stop it. "But so many people die!" Yes even more reason not to do it and more reason to disarm Hamas. "It's disproportionate!" Well what is "proportionate" in the first place and what method is proportionate that also makes the rockets stop? "Crickets"

The fact is that the reason for the horrible conditions of the people in Gaza are due to those rockets and tunnels, specifically the need to eliminate them. That and the fact that Hamas stores weapons pretty much everywhere in Gaza. So a densely populated area with munitions (and thus targets) everywhere. There isn't much alternative.

First and foremost, criticising Israel doesn't mean you're a Hamas supporter so don't even try and play that card here.

As for the reasons why the conditions in Gaza are so bad, are you really that delusional as to solely blame this on Hamas? Where does Israeli policy fit into this or are you just being intellectually dishonest?

I think that pulling settlers out of Gaza by Israel was a huge step in the right direction and the result was the election of Hamas, which was 10 steps back leading to the naval blockade and the need for increased border security which makes things horrible for the people there.

How about the West Bank? The settlement plan is still very much in effect.

What has Israel done to further dialogue, realistically speaking?

 

[RustyNails]

I think that pulling settlers out of Gaza by Israel was a huge step in the right direction and the result was the election of Hamas, which was 10 steps back. Among other things leading to the naval blockade and the need for increased border security which makes things horrible for the people there.

"elect people we like, or else we will fuck you up" - Democracy?

 

[jakonovski]

What has Israel done to further dialogue, realistically speaking?

Killing over a thousand people is pretty powerful as far as dialogue goes, and sends a crystal clear message.

 

[Dash27]

First and foremost, criticising Israel doesn't mean you're a Hamas supporter so don't even try and play that card here.

As for the reasons why the conditions in Gaza are so bad, are you really that delusional as to solely blame this on Hamas? Where does Israeli policy fit into this or are you just being intellectually dishonest?



How about the West Bank? The settlement plan is still very much in effect.

What has Israel done to further dialogue, realistically speaking?

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

 

[Dopus]

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

Yeah, I'm pretty much not even going to respond to your comments. Truly as waste of time when you talk with someone who is unwilling to and refuses to be reasoned with.

 

[Dash27]

"elect people we like, or else we will fuck you up" - Democracy?

Are you here to troll? They elected a terrorist organization that launches rockets at one neighbor and blows a hole in the border of the other. Neither of which like them much to begin with. But at least Iran and Syria try and arm them... thus causing a blockade.

 

[LNBL]

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

Please tell me how Netanyahu and co lieying about the kidnapping of those 3 teenagers puts the whole blame on Hamas? How does the IDF imprissoning Palestinians and ignoring their human rights in the manhunt for the 3 teenagers put the whole blame on Hamas?

 

[RustyNails]

Are you here to troll? They elected a terrorist organization that launches rockets at one neighbor and blows a hole in the border of the other. Neither of which like them much to begin with. But at least Iran and Syria try and arm them... thus causing a blockade.

Thats democracy for you buddy. Do you know who Ben Gurion is.

 

[werks]

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

You are right on that one. the IDF has slaughtered over a 1000 people, mostly civilians.

When you reduce this:

To this:

It's not human shields, its a war crime.

 

[Dude Abides]

Bill Maher was all on the bottom left one.

There's a certain type of atheist, like Maher, who tends to side with Israel for euphoric reasons.

 

[Jonm1010]

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

You act like Israel has been an honest broker of peace if only it wasn't for those pesky Hamas fellas.

How old are you exactly? Have you studied the 1990's peace talks? Israel has been anything but cooperative and reasonable when it comes to genuinely trying to reach a peace agreement.

 

[Dash27]

Yeah, I'm pretty much not even going to respond to your comments. Truly as waste of time when you talk with someone who is unwilling to and refuses to be reasoned with.

I'd be happy to have a reasonable debate. We are talking about Gaza and you're bringing in the West Bank. That's a seperate debate in my opinion. Israel still has settlements there and it's expanding them. There is a different leadership and negotiation history.

Back to the issue at hand though you're free to state your case that Hamas is somehow on the same plane as Israel or even Fatah if you want but yes I'd need to be convinced.

 

[Diablos]

Saw a video of a cameraman walking around some houses surrounded by dead bodies of women and children. Really can't believe that people find this an acceptable way of dealing with Hamas.

And yet the US just rolls over for Israel. We give them an absurd amount of money and support. It is pure lunacy. They shouldn't be getting a cent from us after this; but just like so many times in the past, our nation ultimately lets it slide.

Hamas is not innocent by any means, either. But anyone who still solely subscribes to the played out "Israel has the right to defend itself, period" talking point needs to get their head examined. They are ultimately no different than terrorists at the end of the day; they just have more money, military might, and power backing them.