Israel attacks another UN school (19 dead, 126 injured)
- Thread starter Gemüsepizza
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All Hail C-Webb
Hailing from the Chill-Web
It's in the main thread. Only a couple of posts on it since it wasn't about something bad that Israel did, so might have to do some searching (I'm on my phone).
Now we have idiots comparing this to the Holocaust? The only similarity is that jews are involved, and innocent people are dying.
I'm going to avoid these threads and stick with reading the news, which is sad enough without the stupid diatribes thrown around here.
There seems to also be the issue of (at least this was a big issue a few years ago), where any higher up who spoke up against Israel's actions was accused of anti-Semitism, which silenced a lot of protestors, since they didn't want to be wrongly accused of the same thing.
Fun fact, Palestinians/Arabs are also Semites...
Maninthemirror
Banned
Your argument is same as IDF. It wasn't us it was them
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-...-as-palestinian-fighters-cross-border/5630560
Hamas rocket as fact is not true, you were stating it being a Hamas rocket as fact
I really think comments like these are a major reason why the majority of Westerners will never care about Palestine.
massivekettle
Member
Who deems it relevant? Does any conflict now equals ethnic cleansing?
Did Israel set up gas chambers, concentration/extermination camps, etc.?
Different cultures have different ideas of morality. Consider the Roman morality where they would kill off one tenth of their own legions. Or the mongol morality where they built pyramids of heads out of their enemies. In their minds, these were right and just actions.
So basically because you can't provide a link with evidence that it actually was Hamas, because there's no evidence that it was Hamas, now you're leaving. Alrighty then.
DerZuhälter
Member
IDF investigator's will inspect what happened here. Preliminary results will probably explain once again that this attack was done by stray Hamas missle's or the other go to excuse, missle strikes were launched exactly from there and Hamas cowardly uses these building and civilians as human shields.
IDF doesn't do any mistakes.
Ah typical hit and run tactics since you can't back it up with a credible source.
News article quoting what the IDF says is not proof.
And the irony.
No, but they are indiscriminately killing civilians only cause they're Palestinians, which I guess is what the post is referring to.
Pankratous
Member
Can someone explain in ten sentences or less why this all started in the first place and why? I haven't been taking an interest till now.
Winterfang
Banned
Someone do something please =(
Edit:
What I was told is that, three Israeli teenagers where kidnapped and killed in Gaza. Israel blamed Hamas(sp?), they deny it. Israel attacked. Of course that's an overly simplified explanation.
Edit:
What I was told is that, three Israeli teenagers where kidnapped and killed in Gaza. Israel blamed Hamas(sp?), they deny it. Israel attacked. Of course that's an overly simplified explanation.
massivekettle
Member
Do you have any proof, though? Isn't IDF responding to Hamas sites, rocket launch spots or ammo caches? Also, there is (unfortunatelyla margin of error with military attacks and collateral damage.
Just pointing out here that people are very quick to blame Israel for everything without giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Look at the death figures, benefit of the doubt ran out a long time ago.
They've repeatedly hit UN schools (now refugee shelters staffed with UN personnel so unlikely to be any ammo caches or Hamas personnel.) to which they've been given the GDP co-ordinates. There were some rocket caches found in some unused UN schools when the UN returned to set them up as refugee shelters but none have ever been found in active UN facilities.
Maninthemirror
Banned
WWII ends, persecuted Jews have to go somewhere, they end up in Israel, independence is declared, Arabs dont like it go to to war with Israel in 1948 and get defeated and Israel takes more land. tensions keep going. Israel strikes preemptively thinking arab armies will attack again in 1967 and Israel takes even more land. All this while the Palestinians want their share of land be independent, after 1967 Hamas is formed as a radical movement because they feel the secularists have done shit for Palestine, Israel keeps building more settlements, Hamas influence grows and PLO falls. Rest is recent
What kind of proof would you accept?
I don't agree that they are doing "exactly what Hitler did to the Jews". That is obviously false. There are certainly some similarities which make some analogies perfectly relevant to the conversation. Godwin's Law is not for when one group denies rights to, walls in, and slaughters a bunch of non-combatant members of another group using terror tactics.
Israel is shifting further to the right and they're electing more and more fascist leadership, I think Israel's healthy economy is a buffer against the kind of radical action we saw in in Hitler's rise to power but I would argue that while many things are not the same, and it would be a mistake to reference the holocaust, there are parallels to be drawn between where Israel is heading now and where Germany ended up under Hitler. As I would expect there to be with any rise in fascism.
massivekettle
Member
If they attack a spot with no Hamas affiliation/connection in a 250-500m radius.
Quoting sensationalistic/biased journos won't do it for me. As much as you like to blame Fox News, etc. for their bias, the BBCs, Guardians, etc. of this world are as equally biased.
massivekettle
Member
Which will never happen - at least not in our lifetime.
As for Israel not having strategic purpose to the US, that might very well be the case but that's where AIPAC and the like come in.
Margin for error? Every strike hits UN centres, schools or hospitals. This moved beyond Hamas a long time ago.
LOL.
You mean we don't give the benefit of the doubt to the people who killed close to a thousand civilians because they thought Hamas kidnapped/killed 3 teenagers when they had no proof of them doing so and did not attempt to finish an investigation before acting?
He means the Guardians and BBC are just as bad as Fox News. Heh.
they're not, I mean they're not good, but nobody is as bad as the organization that employs Sean Hannity.
cuchulainn
Member
How many innocent lives does it take? and not counting these so-called settlements for America to firmly speak against this nonsense? Innocents and lives lost on both sides are a tragedy here.
If Russia itself was to be this ruthless more so against Ukraine....would America respond?
If North Korea was to be this ruthless against South Korea....would America respond?
I mean, what on earth does it take for something to be done??
A human orchestrated tragedy at its worst (schools bombed and children on beaches for crying out loud) that is on-going and with no sign of stopping. I love America, they are the worlds greatest and most powerful nation and they must do something surely?
Why defend Israel in this circumstance? Is there someone who can tell me why the U.S defend Israel so much when its quite obvious of the war crimes committed? Is it because of Israel lobbies in U.S Government? Israel pressure groups in U.S societies? I'm generally at loss and confused at this.
If Russia itself was to be this ruthless more so against Ukraine....would America respond?
If North Korea was to be this ruthless against South Korea....would America respond?
I mean, what on earth does it take for something to be done??
A human orchestrated tragedy at its worst (schools bombed and children on beaches for crying out loud) that is on-going and with no sign of stopping. I love America, they are the worlds greatest and most powerful nation and they must do something surely?
Why defend Israel in this circumstance? Is there someone who can tell me why the U.S defend Israel so much when its quite obvious of the war crimes committed? Is it because of Israel lobbies in U.S Government? Israel pressure groups in U.S societies? I'm generally at loss and confused at this.
I disagree. BBC and the Guardian are among the best of the mainstream media.
massivekettle
Member
The US should stay out of it. The US is in a lose-lose situation here. They have literally nothing to gain by doing something.
Besides, people claiming the US HAS to get involved will be the first ones to criticize the US once they are involved ("OMG, they always meddle in everybody's business" shtick).
The US should not get involved beyond not vetoing a UNSC resolution. Basically they need to get out of the way and allow UN blue hats in to monitor a peaceful situation.
Unlike now where they continually back Israel, its time the US just stepped back and let others do the work to fix things.
Unlike now where they continually back Israel, its time the US just stepped back and let others do the work to fix things.
The US actively support the IDF terrorists. The US is already involved.
Problem is that the US is the most active foreign power in the region. It is the only one providing diplomatic cover to Israel. It shovels billions of dollars and tons of military aid to Israel. In no way can you define the US as 'staying out of it'
cuchulainn
Member
Why then isn't there a U.N peace keeping force sent in? It would hold things up to get the two sides talking were they have to compromise with each other.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Vetoing every attempt the international community makes to reduce the systematic slaughter of Palestinians means the US is not only involved but is complicit in every death.
Pankratous
Member
I'd wager the US also supports Israel because they (and a few other countries) consider Hamas to be an official terrorist organisation. Let Israel kill a few and it is less the US have to worry about it.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Jerusalem Post article:
So Hamas militants store weapons and munition in schools and they fire at the IDF from schools. It fits right in with their pattern of hiding behind civilians to fight this war and using those civilian deaths as a propaganda tool.
So Hamas militants store weapons and munition in schools and they fire at the IDF from schools. It fits right in with their pattern of hiding behind civilians to fight this war and using those civilian deaths as a propaganda tool.
They have tons to lose by doing something would be a more accurate statement in this case.
googleplex
Member
If you don't see the similarities to this situation and the Warsaw ghetto then there is no hope for you.
No idea. Israel would have to approve it (which they wont whilst theyre happily murdering innocents), and sending in peacekeepers would require the UN Security Council to approve it, which they wont, because the USA will veto it.
deathkiller
Member
The IDF says "near the facility" not from the school.
Not really. We label any enemy that Israel is willing to war against or threatens Israel enough to spook them as "terrorist" to justify the actions taken against them, but there's zero domestic threat from Hamas particularly. It's ironic that you mentioned that actually, because Fatah, the group Israel desperately wants back in control of Gaza, actually has planned and executed international criminal activities including hijackings that have directly affected US citizens.
Think about it, has there been a single government that has been aggressively critical about Israel's pretty blatant behavior over the past 30 years that hasn't been labelled either terrorist or despotic by the US?
Israel, like North Korea or Pakistan, has the ultimate leverage over the US; the only guarantee that the US will not interfere domestically with your politics through military force, nuclear weapons.
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