Because you've continued to bring up "the angle's off" so that you can cling to the hope that you can "win" on one point.
There was no goof. No ambiguity. So no. I award you no points.
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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING
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There was no goof. No ambiguity. So no. I award you no points.
It's never even explained how bloodbending blocks off other bending. All we know is that energybending somehow fixes it, but given how nonsensical a lot Korra's rules are, we shouldn't correllate that to mean that Bloodbending = energy bending. And it would certainly not make sense that a waterbender could control lightning, unless you think Lightning just turns into spiritual energy once it enters the human body.
And you can keep saying Amon controlled his own body to counter Tarrlok's bloodbending with his own, that doesn't mean you know it. I'm not even saying that it's not what happened, because it could have just as easily been that. The point is you have nothing in the show that definitively supports it.
As for why using the big move would be preferable is because it'd probably kill them (assuming they don't have magical bloodbending abilities), and then they would be forever distracted. And it's not that big a move. It's a one second charge up. His normal firebending probably takes only a fraction less time to shoot.
Well, if your objective here is to 'beat' me rather than have meaningful discussion, then whatever. Contrary to what it might look like, I don't go into debates to 'win', do it because I enjoy good insights and using them as a correction of my own blindsights, much like how I have misinterpretted the ending of Zuko's fight for all this time. If you're just doing it to be a dick about it, well...then your being a dick about it.
And it is a bit off, so
I know! It's a tough crowd today, lol
EatinOlives
Member
Yep. Episode was trash and it decided to throw its own universe rules out the window for the sake of hasty plot resolution. Korra magically learning air bending for no reason, the whole "Amon's dead = oh well revolution's over. Everyone back to their homes" shit, the Deus Aang Machina at the end, the works. So what if Mako should or shouldn't be able to do lightning bending while being blood bended himself (he shouldn't have)? The rest of the episode is a pretty good indicator they didn't give a shit about any of the rest of the more important "rules" of the universe.
Let's just accept it all as shitty writing and move on. We've known Endgame was ass since the day it aired.
It's never even explained how bloodbending blocks off other bending. All we know is that energybending somehow fixes it, but given how nonsensical a lot Korra's rules are, we shouldn't correllate that to mean that Bloodbending = energy bending. And it would certainly not make sense that a waterbender could control lightning, unless you think Lightning just turns into spiritual energy once it enters the human body.
And you can keep saying Amon controlled his own body to counter Tarrlok's bloodbending with his own, that doesn't mean you know it. I'm not even saying that it's not what happened, because it could have just as easily been that. The point is you have nothing in the show that definitively supports it.
As for why using the big move would be preferable is because it'd probably kill them (assuming they don't have magical bloodbending abilities), and then they would be forever distracted. And it's not that big a move. It's a one second charge up. His normal firebending probably takes only a fraction less time to shoot.
Well, if your objective here is to 'beat' me rather than have meaningful discussion, then whatever. Contrary to what it might look like, I don't go into debates to 'win', do it because I enjoy good insights and using them as a correction of my own blindsights, much like how I have misinterpretted the ending of Zuko's fight for all this time. If you're just doing it to be a dick about it, well...then your being a dick about it.
And it is a bit off, so
I know! It's a tough crowd today, lol
Amon prevents his brother's bending from affecting him by basically blocking him out. This is what he does. It's undeniable. Amon is able to cut off people's bending. He's clearly more powerful and able to collapse links. It's not too far fetched to think he can redirect energy within his own body.
The natural order of the world is disorder, as in no governments or tribal leaders.
I guess the philosophy is rooted in the
Air Nomad Laghima's
idea that governments/leaders are oppressive and should be dissolved.
Evil air commie hippies? I don't know.
Evil air commie hippies? I don't know.
Okay. Then show me. Show me the undeniable proof then. Because all we see is Amon struggling for a bit, then him moving forward. This is the same as what Korra does when she outmuscles him. What, without any doubt, separates the two instances?
Then explain to me how just because he can redirect spiritual energy (which everyone has and can direct without bloodbending, otherwise lightning redirect would not be possible for firebenders), that means he can redirect electrical discharge as well. Because only firebenders have been shown to be able to do that. And if other people can do that as well, why did only Aang learn it, when it is a skill every member of the Gaang should have, in case they come face to face with Azula.
I always thought that he blood bended himself to override the foreign blood bending.
And then Tarrlok just kind of got amazed that Amon neutralized the blood bending and just stopped scared.
He couldn't redirect the lightning because he was not a firebender.
Korra is the avatar and is generally more powerful so she can withstand it to some degree but clearly doesn't because she's held down and has her bending taken away. . Amon is also distracted by fighting air bending and his movement is dying due to his people knowing. Now he's just flailing about so when he's outted to the public at large he runs away.
Because the show is inconsistent when it comes to Korra?
The avatar is not a superhuman except to the extent that they can bend 4 elements and then access to the avatar state. And that's it. As far as we know that has been stated in both of the entire series, they do not have other superhero abilities like a strong sense of smell, invisibility, super healing, the ability to transform or many other superhero powers. Super strength? Same as the rest. Not suggested at all. Granted Korra is unusually strong, but that's because she's built like a body builder. Girl clearly hits the gym.
He was also not 'fighting' air bending until she already broke free of the grip preventing her from airbending that you claim he was distracted with airbending from holding. And while the whole equalist thing was an issue, I don't think you have any evidence they were on his mind at that time. I don't know if you've ever been in a fight, but..no one does that. From trained fighters to novices, when someone is in a fight, they tend to concentrate on the fight, everything else second. But even if that were the case, there is no external indication of that, so unless your a mindreader for cartoon characters, there is nothing definitively proving your version of events.
Well, you're just admitting the show is badly written then.
m_shortpants
Member
Avatar has all the spirits of Avatars before them and their locked potential.
She broke free because she connected to her air bending powers. This over rode his control. Seems reasonable since avatar state breaks free from bonds so why not connecting to a certain spirit stream.
Dude just got found out by his second in command, he had to dispose of him, the secret is essentially out. People lose their cool. That's great you're comparing him to trained fighters and all that, still doesn't change how the writers made him out to be. He was confident when Korra and Mako exposed him but deteriorated once Tenzin and co were free since him getting beat by air was something that never happened. All the way up until that point he was seemingly untouchable. He was shook. He then got found out to be a bender by his second. He eventually broke when he got found out by the public. Doesn't seem like a stretch or anything but a sequence of events that made him not focus properly.
Valiant effort here sketch, but there's really no justifying Korra breaking out of Amon's bloodbending hold. Even sorta-kinda answers like Avatar State or waterbending make no sense, because Korra had access to neither.
Amon even adopts a full bending stance to bloodbend Korra, which he's never done before. This implies that Amon is fully concentrating on bending Korra at the time, and she just busts out. Inexplicably.
Channeling into air bending without doing it before seems like a reasonable way to break out of blood bending. Heck, she literally taps into air bending and can do it well. I think the spiritual increase helped her out a bit.
Amon blood bends constantly without moving to hide it. He moves to blood bend korra at the end because he's on edge. He's distracted. He sees his movement ending.
It isn't that complicated. Did you want them to explicitly show on a molecular level what was happening?
You are now arguing knowing airbending nullifies bloodbending, which we know isn't true since Hama bloodbended Aang. Remember, Bending is a mental/spiritual act made physical through the elements. Physicality, on part of the user, comes into it very little. Why would knowing how to airbend suddenly make you immune to an external bloodbending?
As for the rest, speculation. It would be a good reason if it showed any of that within the scene, but if he was thinking about that, during the fight, you are the first one to have suggested that. For a guy that's so shaken, he certainly doesn't look it in any way. Look, its fine if you want to repair the show in your own mind so that the sequence of events makes sense, but you have to accept you are extrapolating events in compensation for the writers doing a bad job and that it is not something anyone else has to accept as canon.
I asked for undeniable proof. You are theorizing on what might have been happening in his mind for the sequence of events to make sense, but there is no proof of that happening within the show itself.
Not to mention that as far as the luitenent goes, he's the only one who knows about his blood bending that isn't an enemy, so he could just kill him. At that point, his equalist regime isn't done yet.
Korra airbending in itself is an inexplicable occurrence. It comes from nowhere, unheralded.
There is no apparent spiritual increase. Just conflicting, nonsensical plotting that leaves the fans with a sour taste in their mouths.
Never said it did. I said that when Korra taps into air bending it basically breaks her free (as far as I can recall from the episode). I wouldn't doubt this surge of spiritual energy broke her free. Seems reasonable.
Guy gets beat, guy gets found out: nope, totally not frazzled at all. Cool, calm, and collected. While poorly executed it's quite clear they wanted that or else he wouldn't just up and leave at the end.
Just because it's poorly presented doesn't mean that's not what happened. Why else would they show him just up and leaving at the end? He wasn't written as a member of Team Rocket who, when his disguise falls off, up and leaves and twirls his mustache and says, "WE'LL BE BACK!" he even accepted his death at the end. He clearly wasn't in the right mind set ever since Korra and Mako exposed him at the arena. It just snowballed. Poorly executed but that's how it went down.
Again, frazzled. What is he going to do? Kill the Avatar? He wants to show he is total balance. He would have to kill her as well. All he wanted to do was make her "equal". So, no, killing them wouldn't have saved his plan.
It makes sense in what the show shows us. It's also not unreasonable that his failure to remove Tenzin and his kids bending frazzled him as well (even after getting knocked down by them).
Shit started to unravel. He lost his cool. He bailed. Even accepts his own death at the end.
Your ignoring the central question. How does this work? How does knowing X affect completely distnct
There is no reason why Tenzin 'beating' him should frazzle him at all. Nor is there any indicator he is frazzled. You are making part of the series up in your head. He is obviously frazzled by being unmasked, but we know this because we SEE him being frazzled. His face, the shock, the confusion, the panic. None of that is indicated in his fight with Korra.
What he does at the end with Tarrlok has no connection to his fight with Korra aside from the fact that he gets found out at the end of it.
Ugh, if I were to address this point properly, it'd spin off into another tangent about Amon's true goals, who are put in great doubt because of this episode, and that's just a whole nother can of worms that I would not get in with you until you learn that your speculation and the show's canon are not one and the same. That's the reason I won't continue the conversation, because aside from the lightning redirect conversation where I was clearly in the wrong, your arguments for what has happened have mostly consisted of theories and speculation substituting as proof of what the show actually does. The way you view the show is alright if you contain it only to yourself, but it's not a valid method for debating the merits of a show with someone else. If speculation is allowed as 'proof' there is no argument anyone can make that would be invalid. Using your way of argument, I can say Korra is a lesbian. I can say Korra is a space alien using speculation. I can say Korra doesn't actually exist and is just a figment of Ikki's overactive imagination. It literally doesn't matter because all I have to do is make up things in my head to add to what the show shows me to justify my position. There is no argument here because the boundaries of what we can use as proof are not defined.
Your not proving Amon was frazzled, you're just saying he was, and using the aftermath of his defeat as proof that he must have been frazzled, otherwise he would have not lost. A plot hole cannot exist within this logic. Name any plothole any show or movie or book, and I can make up things that to fill in that hole.
Is it a leap to say spiritual understanding floods the person and can break it? She didn't have any (or just very little) air bending abilities. Unlocking it probably did a CC break. Doesn't seem that unreasonable. Does it? Again, do they need to go into minute detail?
The very last air bending people were in his grasp, they are set free in front of him, and they proceed to knock him off his own stage? Nope. Cool and calm. That's why he gives chase himself. He has something to lose at this point. If they get away there's a bigger chance he loses in the long run.
It has a lot to do with his fight against Korra. He gets beaten by her. He's revealed to be a fraud. He leaves because he has no idea what to do. All he knows is he has a brother and they're going to be a family again. He had no other options.
I'm not speculating anything. Amon is able to use his blood bending to power through his brothers. The Avatar is a stronger bender and can resist as shown in Jakone's trial where even Toph Beifong--a master earth earth bender--cannot resist. These aren't speculations. They occurred within the show. It doesn't matter if they don't exactly follow the rules, they set up for what happens after. It isn't the Citizen Kane of story telling but it's adequate. If these are the big nit picks you have then clearly you weren't paying attention to the story at all.
I don't have the exact details why Amon did what he did in the last episode but it's not a stretch or unreasonable to say that being beaten, had his captors freed, and being outed did affect him.
No, most of what you posted is speculation. Extrapolation, theorization, stuff-that-is-not-depicted-within-the-show-ization. Which is fine for certain purposes, but not in proving a point.
And since it is impossible to prove a negative, I can't really 'counter' this except saying "That didn't happen" and asking for proof if it did, that you are not able to provide and have not done so.
There really is nothing else to say on the subject on my end, so I guess we'll just have to end it here, because this isn't going anywhere.
If nothing else, you get to see the very rare instance of me admitting I was wrong about something.
Well, you could show information on his earlier episodes where he's calm and collected and whenever the Avatar and her friends escape he has his lackeys find them instead of him. There's an obvious shift in his commands near the end. He starts doing things himself he would normally send his lackeys to do. After the rally where he takes away the crime lord's fire bending he sends his lackeys after Korra, Mako, and Bolin. He just disappears in the shadows. He knows what he's doing.
When they fight on monument island he brings lackeys and basically ties her up and says she will only be a martyr and the world needs to see her equalized. This means he would not kill the avatar.
He does barely little during the arena match except remove the power and escape. Again, he has his lackeys do all the work.
During the raid on air temple island, he has his lackeys do the work. When Lin Beifong attacks the air ship, lackeys again.
During the last episode he does it all himself. His plan up until this point was going well. He then loses his air captives, gets knocked down by them, this is probably the first time he gives chase to the avatar really except outside Tarrlock's cabin, the avatar gets away, gets found out by his number 2, gets defeated by Korra after she taps into air bending. While the story wasn't perfect. It does lend support that his plan was failing and he was scrambling. When he was fully outed and seen as a water bender he just said fuck it and left with his brother. Him accepting the murder suicide is him knowing he failed and it's ultimately over. There's no recovery. The avatar will hunt him, no one will ever trust him. It's over.
Also, he even entertains the idea of letting Mako keep his powers because he was able to hit him with lightning.
Icyflamez96
Member
I didn't read this page, but just from reading the last page I was sorta kinda on Veelk's side just because I was on mobile and couldn't watch the video. From the pictures that were first posted I couldn't really tell that he was shooting up either. Of course that was cleared up later though.
Infinite Justice
Member
I see you are new to ATLA/Korra threads
more leaks would have been good but its usually this instead when there is nothing else current to talk about.
None of this is proof of anything by itself. There could be literally a hundred different reasons he decides to do things himself instead of his minions. Maybe he is sick of their failure. Maybe he felt he could only do the job himself. Or maybe... maybe...
Maybe instead of 'frazzled', I instead say he had a stomache ache? Yes, he had too big a helping of Water Tribe noodles, is bloated, and that harmed his judgement and fighting abilities? I mean, we know he has to eat since he is human, that he's water tribe, and there is even foreshadowing that Bolin got bloated earlier in the season. Obviously, the only reason they could have shown us that is because it would signify somethign in the future. It was his big moment in a few hours, so he needed his strength, but he over did it. There, undeniable proof. NEW CANON! AMON DEFEATED BY INDIGESTION! ALSO, HE BROWNED HIS PANTS WHEN KORRA KNOCKED HIM OUT. THIS IS ALSO CANON!
See? The power of speculation is limitless.
Icyflamez96
Member
That's not a "sorta kinda" answer btw. I'm not talking directly about how Korra did it, but being in the avatar state can make you completely ignore bloodbending as we saw with Aang in the flashback.
It is proof. It's a series of events that shows what kind of leader and strategist Amon is. How it isn't proof is beyond me.
I am not speculating. I am taking the information provided in the show and presenting it to you. Amon's plans were working well until the arena. Shit starts falling apart. While not presented in such minute detail that it would be on the next Sight and Sound list, it does provide a reason why Amon lost and how his movement failed.
There is no proof he was eating noodles. I am taking evidence from the show.
Infinite Justice
Member
Speaking of discussions i haven't seen BorkBork in here for a while. Dude always had some great discussion in regards to TLA.
i wonder if he gave up on Korra or got busy, etc
i wonder if he gave up on Korra or got busy, etc
How you just gonna ignore the second half of the very sentence you bolded?
Icyflamez96
Member
I didn't, I just thought you meant it wouldn't be a valid answer to overcome blood bending in general.
The fact that when you look at my speculation for why he failed the only objection you could find is "We're not sure it's noodles he ate" is kind of hilarious.
Anyway, I was supposed to end this 3 replies ago. I'll just say this: being knocked off the platform by Tenzin is proof of nothing except being knocked off the platform by Tenzin.
Being frazzled is a character behavior or mental state. To be frazzled isn't to be beaten, or knocked off a platform or to lose a regime. It is to behave in a certain way. To show characteristics of being exhausted, or unstable, or manic. It is in the act, not the cause.
This is why your 'proofs' just...aren't. Korra broke through his bloodbending, and then airbended, so you call it undeniable proof that her airbending must have broken the bloodbending. Correlation is not causation, and there is nothing that we know about airbending or the learning of airbending that would cause it to do that. Both you and I can make up something it can do that would make it affect bloodbending, but that's fanfiction, that's us making shit up. That's not proof.
Swear to god, last reply on this subject.
I didn't say that. Please do not misquote. I said, "There is no proof he was eating noodles." Your speculation isn't referenced in the show. My "speculation" is referenced. You can watch the episodes and see what I said. There's a difference.
You're taking it as a single event and not including everything else. Sure, a single event is meaningless in a single event but it snowballed. He was never knocked around like that before. This has been shown in previous episodes. He easily defeated people. Now his prizes are free and he has catch them or else his rally is ruined and if he doesn't catch them he loses in the late game.
Pulling the semantics card? You're scrapping that barrel now.
I didn't say "air bending must have broken the blood bending." I said she gains her air bending power during the fight. He's beating on Mako and she taps into air bending. It isn't a reach to say this surge of spiritual understanding freed her from it.
m_shortpants
Member
hurr durr DAE hate mako
Give it a fucking rest already. We get it, Mako is literally worse than Hitler.
m_shortpants
Member
Season 2 was so bad Hulu refuses to acknowledge it exists
Spring-Loaded
Member
That's right Korra, you put Wonder Asami in her place. Just Mako's no longer your man don't mean she can just be any old kind of way
Pretty much. This makes little sense as the airbending is happening based on an earthly attachment Korra has, which is in contrast to spirituality's themes of detachment. Not to mention that Mako wasn't in actual danger. I mean, yeah, it sucks that he wouldn't be a bender anymore, but it's not like he'd be dead. Unless Korra places value on a person based on how they can bend an element, so if Mako is not a bender, he might as well be dead, but that just makes her out to be a bad guy, doesn't it?
It'd have made more sense if Amon had debended her in that one episode early on, and her journey was about how bending did not actually define you as a human being. It'd have both fit in the themes of the villain, and it would have been a really nice character arc.
Lol.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yes. Everything about it was amazing especially the music.
That would have been way too early. Would have been better if he did that right after knocking off Tarrlok.
That's two episodes she has to grow up and understand herself before finally confronting Amon with legitimately earned airbending.
That might work, but I would prefer it earlier, because this is a pretty huge world view that Korra has to rework. 2 episodes is time for her to have some scenes with herself and maybe Tenzin before she has to get to work, unless you have 2 whole episodes of nothing but her reworking that worldview. But do it that far back, she can interact with the whole Krew, and get some much needed character development with them. Actual character development scenes with Mako and Bolin might seem like a dream, but it CAN happen, dammit.
Being overpowered by relatively perverse bending by a person who is in a position of authority would hopefully open Korra's eyes and expedite her growth. I think two episodes could work under that hypothetical paradigm.
All this to say that I'm not letting you take the Probending Arena Roof scene away from me, dammit.
Fair enough. The problem with discussing how 'it should have been' is that our minds each have our own versions of things we describe on paper.
But honestly, you want to know the biggest problem, I had with season 1's ending? I mean, I hated how it broke established rules of what bending was and how it pulled bullshit DeM's out of it's ass and everything. But what bothers me more than any of that, as I reflect back on it, is that Korra gave up.
She lost her bending, and her entire life crumbled before her eyes. She could still airbend, but that meant nothing to her. She ran out of the hut, and looked down off a cliff, implying that she seemed to be considering suicide. All because she couldn't bend. At which point, Aang comes in and pulls his bullshit DeM, and she gets everything back, and that's supposed to be the happy ending.
I mean, the implication here...that if you don't have something physical, you are an incomplete person? That you should just give up and die. Try to apply that to life. So what I get into an accident and lose my leg? What if a magic spirit doesn't magically appear and tell me I'm sad enough that I can have it back? And you want to teach this to kids?
I'd have never liked what they did to Amon, but what truly made me lose respect for the show was that moment, because of the implication and the way they solved it.
Admiral Woofington
Member
When did this thread become so aggressive among members? Jesus
I thought we were here to hate on Mako, not on each other.
Come on people now
Smile on your brother
I thought we were here to hate on Mako, not on each other.
Come on people now
Smile on your brother
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