gutter_trash
Banned
+ the police did not verify if that home had children, elderly or sick people living in it.
Police are supposed to serve and protect not hurt and opress
Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
- Thread starter jordan0386
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+ the police did not verify if that home had children, elderly or sick people living in it.
Police are supposed to serve and protect not hurt and opress
Mammoth Jones
Member
When overwhelming force is the only tool in the toolbox there will be a tendency to utilize it in response to any and everything. Hence why this guy was gunned down in the first place.
SMH.
I don't give a shit. I don't have a dog in this fight I'm not siding with the police on this point. I was just trying to make a guess at the action of the police and why they did what they did. No need to jump down my throat.
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
So the police can simply determine an area to be a "scene" for reasons unknown to all and demand that anyone near it has to stay locked in their home--not even on their property, but physically inside of their home--for an indefinite period of time. Anyone who doesn't comply can be physically forced to do so.
And that's okay?
If the above is true, please describe what remaining autonomy you have from the police state. I'd also like to hear how it is "common sense" to utterly subjugate yourself to a militarized force that operates with impunity on your local communities' streets. Wouldn't "common sense" be to group together tell them to get the fuck out?
Live stream somewhere?
Mammoth Jones
Member
At the end of the day this entire situation has me really upset. I'm annoyed that my child is going to enter a world in a nation where he/she can be gunned down for basically not smiling and being nice to everyone that is in a remote position of power. Or just a suspicious neighbor. All because of their ethnicity.
This dude was shot for what? Because a officer with a short fuse had a bad day and felt disrespected by some guys who didn't get on the sidewalk fast enough?
So basically every time this happens we talk about how it's just one bad apple. But what happens when ALL the other apples come to the rescue of the bad apple? What happens when none of the other apples refuse to say publicly: "Yes, this is a bad apple and it shouldn't be among us"? What happens when all the other apples enforce a no-fly zone so they can block media helicopters from reporting on them cracking down on people protesting the bad apple?
Are they still "good" apples?
This dude was shot for what? Because a officer with a short fuse had a bad day and felt disrespected by some guys who didn't get on the sidewalk fast enough?
So basically every time this happens we talk about how it's just one bad apple. But what happens when ALL the other apples come to the rescue of the bad apple? What happens when none of the other apples refuse to say publicly: "Yes, this is a bad apple and it shouldn't be among us"? What happens when all the other apples enforce a no-fly zone so they can block media helicopters from reporting on them cracking down on people protesting the bad apple?
Are they still "good" apples?
It might be, news vans are there but I am on mobile https://twitter.com/pdpj/status/499350873324421121
Read what I wrote. If the police have lost all control, if they are firing indiscriminately into the crowd, why the hell would you want to be out there and be a target? Get in the house. There is no controlled environment. Nobody is going to listen to you. It's dark. The emotional level is high, and the cops are pretty much going to shoot anything that moves. Why be standing in your yard at that point? Why not protect yourself?
No shit you don't have a dog in this fight, because I doubt you've ever needed to have one in the fight. So if you don't want to side with citizens being abused by police, thats your choice. If you want to participate in areas you have no clue about, I suggest you ask questions, and learn. Find out what sort of different environments people are developed in. Understand that brutality is very real. Care to look into it, if you want to discuss it.
Otherwise, you can continue to live your life, how you've been living it, with no need to have a dog in the fight of civilians being abused by police. But don't assume that people are getting anything other than sad at your posts. I don't get upset by ignorance. I just feel like "well shit, this guy feels this way. Im sure theres a lot of civilians that feel like this. Theres a lot of people who plain don't give a shit and don't have a dog in this fight. Man, that means that we have to do this shit on our own, with a group of people assuming we are all making this shit up." Now -- Thats not specifically you, but its the sentiment behind making excuses for the police department abusing citizens. And its depressing as all hell.
Your answer to police abuse is to accept it and act accordingly. As if people need to be educated, by you, about self preservation.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Mammoth Jones
Member
Goddamn tedesco. I did a Google image search for "apologist" and I think I see your picture. Seriously haven't been this wowed by someone bending over backwards to victim blame since Don Lemon was chiding this woman on CNN for not obeying a cop's orders. She was filming an arrest of some guy that was pulled over in front of her home. She was on her porch. Didn't stop filming, they wanted her to go inside or something or stop filming and she like anyone with a spine and a sense of justice didn't comply because it's her goddamn porch.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/882122
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/882122
benjipwns
Banned
Since when?
The police are simply acting in the public interest and if it wasn't for them those people wouldn't even have property, so not only is it okay, it's necessary to defend the rights of the people.
You get to vote!
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
The beautiful thing about this is that if it were a group of white men and women confronting a militarized police by standing in their yard peacefully, people would be falling over themselves to praise such "courageous action" in defense of their community. "Common sense" would never be a consideration. There would be immediate American Revolution parallels. Freedom Fighters. Heroes. People to look up to.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Because sometimes good people have to be willing to stand up and fight for the change they believe in.
If your first question to people being beaten and attacked by a police force out of control is to comment on how wrong people are for being out in the first place you're missing the point. Probably intentionally.
But I mean, keep fucking that chicken I guess....
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
I'm back on page 19, but I just wanted to say:
I don't believe this for a fucking second.
I don't believe this for a fucking second.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is it really that difficult for people to have empathy because of a melanin gradient
America is such a horrible place. Sometimes I look back to when I was a kid and wanted to live in the grand US of A and now I just can't believe this is the same country. I mean for me it'd be great being white and all but I could never live in a country this vile towards others.
Hopefully you guys sort this shit out and get past racism at this level.
Hopefully you guys sort this shit out and get past racism at this level.
Ahh thanks dude.
kame-sennin
Member
Off-topic/on-topic:
24 year-old man shot and killed by LAPD
http://www.vibe.com/article/man-fatally-shot-lapd-during-confrontation
24 year-old man shot and killed by LAPD
http://www.vibe.com/article/man-fatally-shot-lapd-during-confrontation
Ugh at the reply by Anti-liberal guy. I want bad things to happen to that person.
Not many places are much better. Racism is a worldwide issue.
If severe racism where only in America the world would actually be a much nicer place. Sadly it is not and it is everywhere in just about equal forces.
Our big somehwat unique problem however is with the police.
not true if you've traveled.
plus, justice systems are better in other countries. Smaller % of other countries citizens are in prison as well. bonus; Police aren't armed to the teeth specifically for shooting the brown population. Systematic racism in america + an out of control/broken justice system is very much an American bred problem. Lets stop pretending everything is just hunky dory in america, other countries deal with racism in their own way, without the added bonus of a broken justice system contributing to it.
:::just to be clear and avoid rubbish, yes, there is racism outside of america.:::
I understand that. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. Allow me to try and rectify that.
Using last night as an example, when the cops were coming down the street firing gas, it is my opinion that the people on their lawns should have gone inside, if only for self preservation. I don't see that as a situation to stand up against the police because I don't view that situation as anything but a lose-lose for the protestors. They are going to get gassed, and if it escalated even further, probably shot. If it were me, I would have gone in, maybe filmed through the window, taken photos of the area after they left...basically documented everything. Any action against the police at that point would not have benefited the protestors at all. What would you suggest? Violence against the police? Arm yourselves and fight back? The protestors would have lost. It's picking your battle.
Yes, it is not as instantly gratifying to take the time to document everything and show retrain, but I believe any other action in that situation would have only given the police more reason to act out. The police were out of their mind last night. I would not consider that moment the appropriate time to try and stand up. It would be better to hang back, re-group, and plan a different avenue for attack. The only way this is going to swing in the favor of the protestors is going to be days and weeks from now when the dust settles and the lawsuits come out. Fighting the police will not help anyone, in that particular situation.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Yeah, but comparative to other industrialized nations, there's less chance of dying because of it than in the US. (And in general too, simply because of the gun culture over there.)
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
America is rare in being founded on and nurtured by racism to such an intense degree.
Velcro Fly
Member
gun culture of America obviously plays a part in the things going on too.
Funny how the police couldn't shoot the kid with that to begin with since that cop was trigger happy. Now that cop is being protected by not unveiling who he is and so on. I guess the police are still trying to figure out how to justify the shooting.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Tedesco the reason people get annoyed with posts like yours is because every time there's a case of police brutality you get a group of people saying stuff like "Thats why you do whatever the police say! If only they'd have complied they'd be ok"
It's not bad advice for self preservation but it shouldn't be that way and it only perpetuates the idea that the police can do whatever they want if you give them an excuse. It also shifts the blame onto the victims when the onus should be on the police to not brutalize.
It's not bad advice for self preservation but it shouldn't be that way and it only perpetuates the idea that the police can do whatever they want if you give them an excuse. It also shifts the blame onto the victims when the onus should be on the police to not brutalize.
Cops like to use their fancy toys for more than collecting.
Police get away with shooting people documented on video.
You don't seem to understand how bad the problem is. People are fed up with the justice system that doesn't punish police at all. So when people are fed up, they protest. They don't listen, this is all bottled up as it happens constantly. Its all they can do.
For you, the civilians were in the wrong for not thinking about their self preservation, and should have hidden inside, instead of being fed up with bullshit and standing up to it. Well, if thats the case, then we wouldn't have much civil rights progress (although its going backwards) again, you're an apologist who might not understand what the definition is.
Its sad, as I said earlier. But understandable. Its fascinating to watch, because you think the words you're writing have any sort of merit to them. As if filing paperwork is going to fix the Top-Down justice system problems and corrupt police departments. I mean, a few pages ago a guy was saying its blacks fault for not voting these officers out of town!
If it was this easy, don't you think after say the first 1000 deaths people would have made progress with their paper-complaints. They aren't happening, because they aren't effective. Video isn't effective.
No one will blame anyone for standing up to corruption. But I do find it unfortunate that you're standing up for corruption and explaining the myriad of ways that simply don't work in the justice system, as viable options. As if these are innovative thoughts. You can choose to side with the group abusing civilians if you'd like. Its your choice. But your arguments and reasoning are severely unrealistic.
That's not true, but that's not the point. Perhaps my comment was more crass than I intended it to be. I don't live in MO. Nothing I do out in the middle of nowhere USA is going to affect the situation. I won't be able to vote for anything to prevent something like this from happening in St. Louis, unless it is on a national level. All I can do is to make sure that it doesn't happen here where I live.
I haven't been staying up to date with the situation, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But at this point, they way I understand it, do we not have any solid evidence of what happened? One side saying he was shot while cross the street the other side saying he wrestled the officer for his gun.
It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. You are running with your own narrative and are completely dismissing what I've said because it doesn't fit your point of view to a t. I never said the civilians were wrong. I just don't think, against a heavily armed police force during the nighttime, that unarmed civilians should take on the police at that particular moment, especially if the police are acting crazy. Sure, it might not be necessarily something you believe in, but because you disagree it doesn't mean I am against the protestors.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
how does the mother know this? was she there?
heliosRAzi
Banned
Did you read this: Eyewitness to Michael Brown shooting recounts his friends death
The cops haven't even questioned him yet.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Why is your first instinct to doubt the mother
Everything about you says its true. You know the subject matter here. And instead of addressing things properly, you're being crass. You're making up reasons to ultimately victim blame. If you were ever the subject of constant police abuse, you wouldn't be so flippant in this thread. If you realized just how broken the justice system was, you wouldn't rush in here claiming to the unwashed that petitions and lawsuits will make everything go away! The NYPD has a budget for lawsuit settlements, and they are still strangling people to death, while denying they are strangling people.
No, if you had any understanding for a fellow citizens loss of rights, you'd probably have that pit in your stomach about the whole thing, because this could have easily been you just being gunned down for no reason, and having a world believe that you of course, attacked the officer. As its believable because you're a minority/certain class, and thats why it gets a social pass. But because as you said, you live in the middle of nowhere, and perhaps you weren't privy to this information. But you should at least look into the historic and ongoing situation before victim blaming. People are running out of the little options that were available.
No sir, im reading you loud and clear. You're making the excuse that people should have run away from the police and hid in their homes instead of standing up for themselves.
You're just re-writing the same opinion over and over again. You mention that they should sue, and document. I tell you that police get away with murder on video, you don't respond to that though. I tell you that there is definitely a problem with the justice system. You don't address that. These are reasons that people don't have faith in lawsuits, or paperwork.
XT Vengeance
Member
This thread makes me sad that I live near St. Louis.
Nobody's mother has ever been present at their shooting. Ever.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Military-industrial complex
Read all about it:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1610392116/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There is little next to no difference between police & military presence/equipment/appearance in 2014. Joint training/operations has created that threat that our right to bare arms warned us about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
my first instinct is to always doubt people who aren't at the scene when they're trying to describe who did what at the scene.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
what you just said is a very small minority of countries in the world.
I could flat out agree with you and you would argue with me. I'm not victim blaming. I could sit here and explain why I disagree with you, as you made a few assumptions in your last post, but you won't listen. I said in my last post that maybe I was too crass. I suppose I need to spell it out for you: my intention wasn't to sound crass. That's why I felt the need to explain. But you have your mind made up.
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