Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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So true.

One reason why I hate hearing white people pull the "Oh man, if I were black I'd be soooo mad! :o" when something like this happens (Saw this in a thread and it reminded me that bill maher pulled that shit with the Martin case). Why can't you have genuine and authentic outrage that something happened to someone outside of the social construct that is your "race"?


It really does seem like you have to convince them that "HEY! They're doing this to YOU TO!" for people to give a shit these days.

That ... or have this shit happen over seas i guess. :/
 
Angelus just ethered America.

It's crazy how we all occupy the same time and place but the black existence in this country is on a totally different frequency than others.
 
is this new..?

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https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/500237915805732864
 
I respect that, and I think they are both problems. I agree with pretty much everything you said there.

I guess the area we disagree on is how much of it is racial and how much is economic. (it's easily both)

That said, to get anything done, you have to convince white America that this could be them. Ferguson, combined with some lingering memories from Occupy, is helping.
Which is why we'll be waiting a very long time... or until it's too late to reverse the damage.

Just think about it. Wouldn't you shake your head at someone if they told you demilitarization is more important than equality? This sort of thinking is how select groups of people end up lesser and militarization will only exacerbate the root problem when the police are gunning down minorities with impunity. The next in line after minorities are the press and the remaining poor (a much larger group of people than just poor minorities). Maybe then more white people will get that disturbing wake up call. It'll catch up soon enough at the rate the police are treating minorities and how the ferguson department came at the press.

Everyone except the rich will soon be the "lesser". Economics will be the last piece that fits into the picture.
 
America is, like, the world's saddest clown to us outsiders at the moment. No, we definitely DO NOT think it's the greatest. Mainly for the reasons you outlined, Angelus.

Though let's be real, it's not like British attitudes to minorities are much better. The amount of racist fucks I have to put up with most days is unreal
 
So I guess anonymous is still screwing with St. Louis County websites. -.-

I need to access the property tax info that's on the county site for work...
 
Good morning, folks. Looks like the removal of the militarized police officers helped keep things peaceful in Ferguson? Who knew!? I could have never foreseen such a result. A shame they didn't think of this sooner!

Some of the doubt in here was pretty telling. Why would you think people would riot if they're being treated with respect? No barrels being pointed at them like criminals? Some just always expect the worst from us..go figure.
 
Fuck it, it's 5:22am and I'm just venting, upset, frustrated with this country and the government on every level. This shit is ridiculous and inexcusable in every sense of the word. In 50 years shit will be the same for black people, but people will proclaim from the rooftops "look how much America has changed". My future kids' kids will be fighting the same battles that are being fought today.

The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.
 
The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.

Kids don't care about color? You sure?
 
Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together.
Sheltered white suburban kids grow up thinking that "real" racism is a thing of the past. I'm convinced that systemic issues aren't taken as seriously as they should be because it's literally out of sight, out of mind to so many.
 
Shin you are being naive. You do not need hatred in your heart to be racist. Most Americans, today, have racist beliefs whether they are aware of it or not. The idiot that clutches their purse or crosses the street at the sight of a black man, you transfer that same mindstate to someone in a police uniform and they're more likely to pull the trigger on a black person and ask questions later.

Any black person that interacts with non-black people is aware of the pervasiveness of racism and/or ignorance amongst their non-black peers. It's a huge problem. Just because my family has legal recourse if I get lynched or the public can accommodate my black ass doesn't mean America gets to pat itself on the back and wash her hands. We're not even halfway towards equality.
 
The biggest problem is the ingrained institutional racism that permeates this country. Not trying to attack you when I say this, but this is why I don't believe things are going to change. No one is addressing the actual issue; at most a new law will be passed against police (but lets face it...this isn't going to happen) and people will be like "yay progress!" all the while our clear as day to anyone with an modicum of intelligence racist laws will still be around which allows for incidents like these to happen again and again.

The militarization of the police isn't what led to these people in Ferguson protesting; it was the act of one cop treating a black kid/guy like an animal because that's how society at large still views black people; one can say this isn't true there has been huge progress made, and I'd rebuttal things have largely gone unchanged for black people since the 70s because the laws that put black people in the position they're in have not changed. It's the same horrible laws, different era.

People are calling for demilitarization of the police after seeing how the police treat the news personnel and others like them; for most of America this didn't become an issue that concerned them until they saw white people being affected. People are acting like this type of treatment of black people is something new when for black people it's always been this way. The laws just aren't fair at all and this is a direct result of these laws that favor one group of people over another.

Demilitarization is the white issue, equality is the black issue. People see these militarized cops trampling all over the freedom of speech and right to gather and protest and they can directly see how that would effect them in times of protest and as a result have become very vocal about it. But these same people don't see/care about the inequality in application of law and justice that blacks have been going through since forever because that doesn't directly affect them in anyway. So as a result they demand action on what does affect them, and maybe they'll get that change. However at the rate this country progresses for blacks and other minorities (because there is very much a difference in rate of progress for blacks vs whites) it's going to be another 25+ years before someone in a position of power takes a look at these laws and sees them for what they are.

So honestly I couldn't give a fuck about the demilitarization of police force; I really don't give a damn. I want to be able to drive down the street and not get stopped and worrying if this cop is going to kill me because he feels "threatened" by me; I want my brothers and sisters to be able to walk through a protest without getting maced and detained for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I want society to stop painting blacks as these savages and enacting laws that reinforce their fucked up views. I want less Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, <insert black person killed #76841> by the police because of some quota/perceived threat by the rest of the country.

Honestly, fuck the problems of white America. I'm tired of the focus on these "problems" I'm tired of the constant "well get to your problems after we address these problems" approach/attitude. Like no, fuck you we've been placed on this ever growing "To do" list since the fucking 60s. I'm tired of hearing about these really stupid ass "First world problems" I'm tired of hearing about "women's rights" that don't include the plight of black women, I'm tired of the reactionary "men's right advocates" that don't give two shits about the hilariously fucked disproportionate rate at which black men are locked up. Fuck this faux Gaza outrage, when people in your own fucking backyard are being treated like shit but we have people out here rallying about something happening across the Atlantic.

I'm tired of fucking hipster douche silver spoon fucks co-opting everything then dumping it when it's no longer "trendy". Like those fucks who wear those "I Am Trayvon Martin" shirts. No you're not, you're a white kid from the burbs who majored in fucking Art History while living off your trustfund. This will never be your reality; you sit in front of your computer making stupid caption pictures and sharing it with your friends, many of which don't give a single fuck. You then scour the internet for the next tragedy you can be a part of. Many of these assholes don't give a fuck past surface level interest. They sit in their little coffee shops drinking their overpriced shit water talking about "those poor black people, if only there was something like we could totes do". There is fecal breath, stop sharing those stupid images with dumb captions about "Civil Rights man!" and organize sit ins, gather people in your community to talk to your governor. Your facebook crusade is a crock of shit, I'd rather these people do nothing.
Black people make up all of 12% of the US population. I'm going to be painfully honest, there is very little we can do on our own without the help of a larger subset of the US population; but when the rest of the country doesn't give a shit. It absolutely sends a message to the rest of us and slowly but surely kills our morale. I've already done the cliche "send a letter to your governor" here in FL; I've been downtown and talked to people to get them to become aware...they don't give a fuck and that sends a message to me (and thus this long rant is really a cumulation of my frustrations at people's apathy over these past few days).

Don't get me wrong they are very much real issues, but they're issues that by some coincidence are always exclusionary towards minorities. I want women to have their rights, but I would love more for black women to stop being marginalized and being told their ugly by damn near everyone. Men's Rights? Man fuck that shit in general, boohoo. I'm not even going to address that shit because for the most part... simply put fuck men's rights. Talk to me about black men's rights first then I'll give a fuck about "men's" (read: white) perceived injustice. More women movies in lead roles? I'm down for that, but I'm more down for black women not being basically side pieces to these powerful white men despite the fact that vast majority of black/white relationships in America are black men/white women. I'd be down for the cause if these "more women in lead roles" also covered Asian females, black females, hispanic females. I'd be more down for that if there were more black/asian/hispanic females in Hollywood period; and fuck that stupid argument of "herp derp well maybe there aren't many Asian/Black/Hispanic women trying to be actresses".

You have a bunch of "patriots" who are all cheering this Bundy douche and people like him for "protecting our border" and being anti-government talking about how horrible the government is and how much power they're taking away from the people; but these same chucklefucks are silent when there is actual government fucketry going on in front of them. You have politicians talking about the "American" people but let this shit go on for fucking days while they play golf and snort lines of blow off the asscrack of a hooker while having their underpaid intern pen some shitty response about how bad they feel about how the police have handled things so far and sympathize with the people. No, politicians don't give a shit as long as their pockets continued to be lined by the industrial prison complex they have no incentive to change shit.

Honestly there are days where I am seriously like, fuck this country. This country is a big fucking facade; to the outside this place is fucking amazing and great and omg wow a shining beacon of human achievement, but look past the surface and it's shit; absolute unfiltered 100% no preservatives added shit.

"Things will change"…do people not realize just how long this line has been towed? Like this is all black people hear is that things will "change". What people don't tell anyone is that things will change...after this other issue is addressed. And these "issues" are always pages upon pages long.

Fuck it, it's 5:22am and I'm just venting, upset, frustrated with this country and the government on every level. This shit is ridiculous and inexcusable in every sense of the word. In 50 years shit will be the same for black people, but people will proclaim from the rooftops "look how much America has changed". My future kids' kids will be fighting the same battles that are being fought today.

I love you, and I love this. Shedding a tear at all this. This is exactly how I feel.
 
The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.

lol. my god the world you live in.
 
Sheltered white suburban kids grow up thinking that "real" racism is a thing of the past. I'm convinced that systemic issues aren't taken as seriously as they should be because it's literally out of sight, out of mind to so many.

It's not even just a suburban issue. I grew up in rural New Mexico where the most I ever came in contact with a black person was on TV or the internet. School taught us about slavery and the civil war and civil rights movement but that was it. Black america and the institutional problems it faces disappeared in New Mexico after about the 10th grade.

When I was 15 I honestly thought black people didn't have to fear racism anymore. I had no clue what reality was. There's zero awareness in these areas and an entire generation of rural children are going to be raised with the idea that Racism is dead because we had a black president. And then they'll go to college or move away from home and be faced with the truth and have no idea how to handle it. They'll tell their new black friends that 'I don't see color LOL'.
 
The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.

Nothing apart from aliens landing will change the racial construct that is setup as modern society.

Social Media which, whether we like it or not lets people show their real faces, still has a surprising amount of young racists who don't even care about saying racist shit.

And these aren't even what you would call 'stormfront' white nationalist people these are kids who go to mixed high schools listen and dress 'hip hop' probably have ethnic 'friends' but can sit and write racist filth about Obama about stuff as petty as a character in the Hunger Games being black. It's sadly embedded in certain people from an an early age and it has to be passed down by their just as disgusting parents.
 
The chief is so stupid he pretty much confirmed the name yesterday when a reporter shouted it out. The look on his face. He was stunned.

Yeah, I pointed this out yesterday after watching back the vid.

Was the name the same as the one Anonymous revealed?

No, he outright denied the name Anonymous put out. Then another reported started talking about a name that the protestors at the police station were claiming was the shooter.

He said the first name of the guy, and the chief basically had a complete blank look on his face after he said it. It was basically a complete 180 of the reaction to the name Anonymous put out.

Then he gave the exact opposite answer. For Anonymous, he said outright no. For that guy, he said he wasn't going to talk about it. Then quickly left.

I won't say the guy's name because this isn't a witch hunt, but that chief basically did everything but put his hands over his ears, shake his head around, and go lalalalala I'm not listening

Is there a video up of that reaction?

I'll look for it. It's definitely in this thread.

Edit: Found it. It's the entire press conference, but it's towards the end.
 
The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.

You're under the delusion that it's simply vocal racist minorities that have our society the way it is, that is at best reductionist thinking born from not understanding the issue that plagues this country. Racists making laws and the millions upon millions of people who are completely indifferent towards these laws because "they don't see color" are the problem. It's the complacency that has allowed such injustice to becomes such a huge part of American society.

Kids playing together really in the grand scheme of things mean very little. Come back to me when they're 18+ and overwhelming believe that black people are largely responsible for their own current conditions as indicated in polls. Come back to me when these 18 year olds who are largely unaffected by the same racist post Jim Crow era laws don't do anything to change them.

Not speaking up or caring about these atrocities makes a person not much better than the vocal racist minority (and this minority is sizeable). By not simply not speaking up, one allows the atrocities to continue unabated. I just can't subscribe to the belief things are going to change when the narrative that media paints and the laws that rule this land go unchanged. In time new laws will be enacted but they serve only to obfuscate the main issue at hand. We'll still turn on the news everyday and watch as cops kill black people for simply existing; and make up a story about how they reached for the officer's gun. You have an entire political party who fights tooth and nail to keep the status quo, who did not want to repeal the 20 to 1 crack cocaine laws despite how clear as day racist they were. Who throw out so many dog whistles in regards to black people, and who blatantly do all they can to stop the President from getting anything done because of his skin color who plant seeds of stupidity in American citizens by asking about birth certificates. No one has ever asked Mitt Romney for his birth certificate, for all we know he could be fucking Russian, but this is never questioned because he is white and by proxy is "default" and unquestionably American.

These people won't be given the benefit of the doubt, their name and image will be dragged through the mud, despite the fact they are the victim it will be them who are on trial; it will be them who the media paints as the villain and will frame their deaths as justified from the get go by simply phrasing their headlines a certain way. "Black youth killed, no gang affiliation" or "Black teen shot, had prior arrest for marijuana"...as if those make their deaths okay. All the while we can have white youth who AK a school get headlines of "Youth opens fire on school&#8212;Friends state he was kindhearted and are shocked"; or how media tried to frame Elliot Rogers as some poor misguided youth. We'll continue to see people question if these deaths are a result of the black culture; while the dozens of mass shootings and other heinous acts are chalked up to "mental illnesses". They'll continue to put up the worst picture they can find and frame how they're "thugs", "delinquents", "animals". These narratives didn't happen in isolation; they're the direct effect of decades upon decades of marginalization, mistreatment and systematic abuse inflicted upon black people.

So when you tell me the youth of tomorrow are going to make it all better, I will tell you this is the same thing they said in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and things have not gotten better for black people at nearly the rate the majority. You can look at black people in the 80s and see not much has changed in our social standing in this country and the reason is the same post Jim Crow bullshit laws that were around back then are still in effect today. You want me to believe that things will get better? Show me these fucked up laws being changed, show me the for profit prison industry being dismantled, show me disproportionate arrest rates for the same crimes being evened out, show me these post Jim Crow laws being thrown out wholeheartedly; show me people who aren't naive enough to think that it's no longer a racial problem but a class problem when these laws make sure that the class most affect are comprised of black people.

What I think is going to happen is that overt racism will more and more be frowned upon while covert racism will be double downed even more (basically American society right now). I mean it's cute that people believe in that anime trope of the power of youth, but back in reality the youth will grow up largely apathetic because it doesn't affect them. They'll tackle issues that are in their face (women's rights, gay rights, etc) but black rights will be where it's been for the last 50 years because it's out of sight so out of mind.

I want to believe but reality paints a different picture.

It's 2014 and black people are still protesting the same shit from the 60s. Think about that then tell me things will/do get better.
 
Angelus, that's an amazing post.


The thing is you are putting up a dividing line between white/black and everything else when in reality the racists are usually the vocal minority that are scared of the change that is currently happening.

Kids growing up do not care about color and you can see that in any group of children playing together. Our generation is moving away from the hatred and dividing lines that our parent and their parents had, and in time (yes it will take time) people will grow up in a world where the person is what matters not the color of their skin.

With that said there will always be ignorant scared racists but their days are getting short.
The older generations are just more vocal with their racism. Guess what?

Kids continue to grow up in homes where racist views are constantly brought up.
Kids are being taught plain incorrect shit that will badly skew their view of race relations in America (there a numerous states that never directly mention slavery when teaching American history).
Kids will continue to live sheltered lives without being taught empathy toward people miles away who have to actively shelter themselves for protection, and will grow up feeling that 'if I was able to pull myself by my bootstraps then there's nothing holding back others from doing the same'.
Kids will continue to bully other kids over the dumbest things, race being one of them.
Kids will continue to look at examples of beauty advertised in the media and notice that they are less or never represented, a realization that can further the spread of low self worth.
Kids will be kids and hopefully the next generation will be more inclusive than the last... but history shows that we don't have a great track record with this.
 
In what way? If the people of Ferguson started killing officers, that would be the worst thing to improve social relations.

Historically that's not necessarily true. Cincinnati was much the same in the sixties as Ferguson today and things didn't change until someone went and blew a cops head off. Granted things got worse for a while but end result was improved relations as cops had too much fear to abuse residents.

Course, that's not the type of thing that makes the history books...
 
I was off for all of last night. Anything happen while I was away? How'd the protest go last night?

You guys got through a lot of pages since I left and I have a lot to read but a synopsis would be rad.
 
The biggest problem is the ingrained institutional racism that permeates this country. Not trying to attack you when I say this, but this is why I don't believe things are going to change. No one is addressing the actual issue; at most a new law will be passed against police (but lets face it...this isn't going to happen) and people will be like "yay progress!" all the while our clear as day to anyone with an modicum of intelligence racist laws will still be around which allows for incidents like these to happen again and again.

The militarization of the police isn't what led to these people in Ferguson protesting; it was the act of one cop treating a black kid/guy like an animal because that's how society at large still views black people; one can say this isn't true there has been huge progress made, and I'd rebuttal things have largely gone unchanged for black people since the 70s because the laws that put black people in the position they're in have not changed. It's the same horrible laws, different era.

People are calling for demilitarization of the police after seeing how the police treat the news personnel and others like them; for most of America this didn't become an issue that concerned them until they saw white people being affected. People are acting like this type of treatment of black people is something new when for black people it's always been this way. The laws just aren't fair at all and this is a direct result of these laws that favor one group of people over another.

Demilitarization is the white issue, equality is the black issue. People see these militarized cops trampling all over the freedom of speech and right to gather and protest and they can directly see how that would effect them in times of protest and as a result have become very vocal about it. But these same people don't see/care about the inequality in application of law and justice that blacks have been going through since forever because that doesn't directly affect them in anyway. So as a result they demand action on what does affect them, and maybe they'll get that change. However at the rate this country progresses for blacks and other minorities (because there is very much a difference in rate of progress for blacks vs whites) it's going to be another 25+ years before someone in a position of power takes a look at these laws and sees them for what they are.

So honestly I couldn't give a fuck about the demilitarization of police force; I really don't give a damn. I want to be able to drive down the street and not get stopped and worrying if this cop is going to kill me because he feels "threatened" by me; I want my brothers and sisters to be able to walk through a protest without getting maced and detained for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I want society to stop painting blacks as these savages and enacting laws that reinforce their fucked up views. I want less Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, <insert black person killed #76841> by the police because of some quota/perceived threat by the rest of the country.

Honestly, fuck the problems of white America. I'm tired of the focus on these "problems" I'm tired of the constant "well get to your problems after we address these problems" approach/attitude. Like no, fuck you we've been placed on this ever growing "To do" list since the fucking 60s. I'm tired of hearing about these really stupid ass "First world problems" I'm tired of hearing about "women's rights" that don't include the plight of black women, I'm tired of the reactionary "men's right advocates" that don't give two shits about the hilariously fucked disproportionate rate at which black men are locked up. Fuck this faux Gaza outrage, when people in your own fucking backyard are being treated like shit but we have people out here rallying about something happening across the Atlantic.

I'm tired of fucking hipster douche silver spoon fucks co-opting everything then dumping it when it's no longer "trendy". Like those fucks who wear those "I Am Trayvon Martin" shirts. No you're not, you're a white kid from the burbs who majored in fucking Art History while living off your trustfund. This will never be your reality; you sit in front of your computer making stupid caption pictures and sharing it with your friends, many of which don't give a single fuck. You then scour the internet for the next tragedy you can be a part of. Many of these assholes don't give a fuck past surface level interest. They sit in their little coffee shops drinking their overpriced shit water talking about "those poor black people, if only there was something like we could totes do". There is fecal breath, stop sharing those stupid images with dumb captions about "Civil Rights man!" and organize sit ins, gather people in your community to talk to your governor. Your facebook crusade is a crock of shit, I'd rather these people do nothing.
Black people make up all of 12% of the US population. I'm going to be painfully honest, there is very little we can do on our own without the help of a larger subset of the US population; but when the rest of the country doesn't give a shit. It absolutely sends a message to the rest of us and slowly but surely kills our morale. I've already done the cliche "send a letter to your governor" here in FL; I've been downtown and talked to people to get them to become aware...they don't give a fuck and that sends a message to me (and thus this long rant is really a cumulation of my frustrations at people's apathy over these past few days).

Don't get me wrong they are very much real issues, but they're issues that by some coincidence are always exclusionary towards minorities. I want women to have their rights, but I would love more for black women to stop being marginalized and being told their ugly by damn near everyone. Men's Rights? Man fuck that shit in general, boohoo. I'm not even going to address that shit because for the most part... simply put fuck men's rights. Talk to me about black men's rights first then I'll give a fuck about "men's" (read: white) perceived injustice. More women movies in lead roles? I'm down for that, but I'm more down for black women not being basically side pieces to these powerful white men despite the fact that vast majority of black/white relationships in America are black men/white women. I'd be down for the cause if these "more women in lead roles" also covered Asian females, black females, hispanic females. I'd be more down for that if there were more black/asian/hispanic females in Hollywood period; and fuck that stupid argument of "herp derp well maybe there aren't many Asian/Black/Hispanic women trying to be actresses".

You have a bunch of "patriots" who are all cheering this Bundy douche and people like him for "protecting our border" and being anti-government talking about how horrible the government is and how much power they're taking away from the people; but these same chucklefucks are silent when there is actual government fucketry going on in front of them. You have politicians talking about the "American" people but let this shit go on for fucking days while they play golf and snort lines of blow off the asscrack of a hooker while having their underpaid intern pen some shitty response about how bad they feel about how the police have handled things so far and sympathize with the people. No, politicians don't give a shit as long as their pockets continued to be lined by the industrial prison complex they have no incentive to change shit.

Honestly there are days where I am seriously like, fuck this country. This country is a big fucking facade; to the outside this place is fucking amazing and great and omg wow a shining beacon of human achievement, but look past the surface and it's shit; absolute unfiltered 100% no preservatives added shit.

"Things will change"…do people not realize just how long this line has been towed? Like this is all black people hear is that things will "change". What people don't tell anyone is that things will change...after this other issue is addressed. And these "issues" are always pages upon pages long.

Fuck it, it's 5:22am and I'm just venting, upset, frustrated with this country and the government on every level. This shit is ridiculous and inexcusable in every sense of the word. In 50 years shit will be the same for black people, but people will proclaim from the rooftops "look how much America has changed". My future kids' kids will be fighting the same battles that are being fought today.

So much damn truth in one post!
 
The older generations are just more vocal with their racism. Guess what?

Kids continue to grow up in homes where racist views are constantly brought up.
Kids are being taught plain incorrect shit that will badly skew their view of race relations in America (there a numerous states that never directly mention slavery when teaching American history).
Kids will continue to live sheltered lives without being taught empathy toward people miles away who have to actively shelter themselves for protection, and will grow up feeling that 'if I was able to pull myself by my bootstraps then there's nothing holding back others from doing the same'.
Kids will continue to bully other kids over the dumbest things, race being one of them.
Kids will continue to look at examples of beauty advertised in the media and notice that they are less or never represented, a realization that can further the spread of low self worth.
Kids will be kids and hopefully the next generation will be more inclusive than the last... but history shows that we don't have a great track record with this.

Kids will continue to be consume media that enforces racist views. The #1 cable news channel is Fox News which has entire shows that seem dedicated to telling us that Black People are the problem with Black People.
 
Best post

Martin Luther King said:
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”

Just saying.
 
Angelus, what do you feel are some tangible goals/solutions to best tackle the covert racism?
Not sure what angelus will say but I think people accepting that covert racism even exists would help. Them people starting to care. Then people starting to talk about it for more than a month. Then laws being repealed or new laws being passed. Then those laws actually need to be enforced.

That would be a start.
 
Which is why we'll be waiting a very long time... or until it's too late to reverse the damage.

Just think about it. Wouldn't you shake your head at someone if they told you demilitarization is more important than equality? This sort of thinking is how select groups of people end up lesser and militarization will only exacerbate the root problem when the police are gunning down minorities with impunity. The next in line after minorities are the press and the remaining poor (a much larger group of people than just poor minorities). Maybe then more white people will get that disturbing wake up call. It'll catch up soon enough at the rate the police are treating minorities and how the ferguson department came at the press.

Everyone except the rich will soon be the "lesser". Economics will be the last piece that fits into the picture.

I do worry about that myself. Economics is huge though. It's a lot harder to shit on a group that has wealth and can hurt folks via the free market.

Racial inequality is a great way to divide the poor against the rich, it's SOP for Southern white populist politicians for a reason, and has been since the Civil War.

I do agree with the order of how things will go. I think we're all pretty much in agreement that something needs to be done, we're just disagreeing on the details and order, and what's most important- probably because we're coming from different perspectives.


And Angelus deserves a "damn straight" tag for that post, even if it comes at my expense.
 
You're under the delusion that it's simply vocal racist minorities that have our society the way it is, that is at best reductionist thinking born from not understanding the issue that plagues this country. Racists making laws and the millions upon millions of people who are completely indifferent towards these laws because "they don't see color" are the problem. It's the complacency that has allowed such injustice to becomes such a huge part of American society.

Kids playing together really in the grand scheme of things mean very little. Come back to me when they're 18+ and overwhelming believe that black people are largely responsible for their own current conditions as indicated in polls. Come back to me when these 18 year olds who are largely unaffected by the same racist post Jim Crow era laws don't do anything to change them.

Not speaking up or caring about these atrocities makes a person not much better than the vocal racist minority (and this minority is sizeable). By not simply not speaking up, one allows the atrocities to continue unabated. I just can't subscribe to the belief things are going to change when the narrative that media paints and the laws that rule this land go unchanged. In time new laws will be enacted but they serve only to obfuscate the main issue at hand. We'll still turn on the news everyday and watch as cops kill black people for simply existing; and make up a story about how they reached for the officer's gun. You have an entire political party who fights tooth and nail to keep the status quo, who did not want to repeal the 20 to 1 crack cocaine laws despite how clear as day racist they were. Who throw out so many dog whistles in regards to black people, and who blatantly do all they can to stop the President from getting anything done because of his skin color who plant seeds of stupidity in American citizens by asking about birth certificates. No one has ever asked Mitt Romney for his birth certificate, for all we know he could be fucking Russian, but this is never questioned because he is white and by proxy is "default" and unquestionably American.

These people won't be given the benefit of the doubt, their name and image will be dragged through the mud, despite the fact they are the victim it will be them who are on trial; it will be them who the media paints as the villain and will frame their deaths as justified from the get go by simply phrasing their headlines a certain way. "Black youth killed, no gang affiliation" or "Black teen shot, had prior arrest for marijuana"...as if those make their deaths okay. All the while we can have white youth who AK a school get headlines of "Youth opens fire on school&#8212;Friends state he was kindhearted and are shocked"; or how media tried to frame Elliot Rogers as some poor misguided youth. We'll continue to see people question if these deaths are a result of the black culture; while the dozens of mass shootings and other heinous acts are chalked up to "mental illnesses". They'll continue to put up the worst picture they can find and frame how they're "thugs", "delinquents", "animals". These narratives didn't happen in isolation; they're the direct effect of decades upon decades of marginalization, mistreatment and systematic abuse inflicted upon black people.

So when you tell me the youth of tomorrow are going to make it all better, I will tell you this is the same thing they said in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and things have not gotten better for black people at nearly the rate the majority. You can look at black people in the 80s and see not much has changed in our social standing in this country and the reason is the same post Jim Crow bullshit laws that were around back then are still in effect today. You want me to believe that things will get better? Show me these fucked up laws being changed, show me the for profit prison industry being dismantled, show me disproportionate arrest rates for the same crimes being evened out, show me these post Jim Crow laws being thrown out wholeheartedly; show me people who aren't naive enough to think that it's no longer a racial problem but a class problem when these laws make sure that the class most affect are comprised of black people.

What I think is going to happen is that overt racism will more and more be frowned upon while covert racism will be double downed even more (basically American society right now). I mean it's cute that people believe in that anime trope of the power of youth, but back in reality the youth will grow up largely apathetic because it doesn't affect them. They'll tackle issues that are in their face (women's rights, gay rights, etc) but black rights will be where it's been for the last 50 years because it's out of sight so out of mind.

I want to believe but reality paints a different picture.

It's 2014 and black people are still protesting the same shit from the 60s. Think about that then tell me things will/do get better.
Pastor Angelus, Chapter 3, Verse 11 - Sermon on the Mount

Only thing left to do is pass the offering plate and do the Alter Call.
 


It's not even just a suburban issue. I grew up in rural New Mexico where the most I ever came in contact with a black person was on TV or the internet. School taught us about slavery and the civil war and civil rights movement but that was it. Black america and the institutional problems it faces disappeared in New Mexico after about the 10th grade.

When I was 15 I honestly thought black people didn't have to fear racism anymore. I had no clue what reality was. There's zero awareness in these areas and an entire generation of rural children are going to be raised with the idea that Racism is dead because we had a black president. And then they'll go to college or move away from home and be faced with the truth and have no idea how to handle it. They'll tell their new black friends that 'I don't see color LOL'.
I grew up in Milton, WV. The student body of my high school was almost 2000 strong, and I think I only needed one hand to count the number of black students who attended. Other ethnicities were similarly sparse in number. The only metric of diversity in the surrounding area basically amounted to which denomination of Protestant Christian your family was.

So you grow up in that kind of environment, you're taught about slavery, and the Civil War, and the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s and MLK, and that's about it. Kids today get to tack on the election of the first black President as a happy ending, even. There's no demonstration that modern racism amounts to anything more than politically incorrect language and stereotypical jokes. You're not clued in to the kind of ordeals that entire swaths of the country have to overcome in day-to-day life.

That's the perspective I grew up with. I remember applying for scholarships in high school and just being amused at the disproportionate volume of "hand-outs" offered exclusively to minority applicants for all kinds of scholarships and grants. "Thank god I have a brain, talent, and actual academic achievements under my belt," I'd think to myself, "because I can't just coast by on being black." That's an actual thought I had in my head at one point in time, and I'm confident that it's a common sentiment among those who would consider themselves to be "moderate," whatever that's supposed to mean.

After I left home, saw a little more of the world, and made several friends of drastically different upbringings in different parts of the country, well, my outlook was a little different. Eventually I realized that my father had opportunities to put food on the table for his family that others wouldn't have had, and that living in a safe neighborhood or attending well-funded and staffed public schools aren't guarantees. And that I don't have to worry about being shot to death for Driving While White.

Most people will never break out of that bubble, though, either due to a lack of experience or a very stubborn close-mindedness, and all sorts of powers that be pretty much make sure that it stays reinforced. That screencap of Fox News using MLK as a means to shame the victims of Ferguson literally made me nauseous.
 
The biggest problem is the ingrained institutional racism that permeates this country. Not trying to attack you when I say this, but this is why I don't believe things are going to change. No one is addressing the actual issue; at most a new law will be passed against police (but lets face it...this isn't going to happen) and people will be like "yay progress!" all the while our clear as day to anyone with an modicum of intelligence racist laws will still be around which allows for incidents like these to happen again and again.

The militarization of the police isn't what led to these people in Ferguson protesting; it was the act of one cop treating a black kid/guy like an animal because that's how society at large still views black people; one can say this isn't true there has been huge progress made, and I'd rebuttal things have largely gone unchanged for black people since the 70s because the laws that put black people in the position they're in have not changed. It's the same horrible laws, different era.

People are calling for demilitarization of the police after seeing how the police treat the news personnel and others like them; for most of America this didn't become an issue that concerned them until they saw white people being affected. People are acting like this type of treatment of black people is something new when for black people it's always been this way. The laws just aren't fair at all and this is a direct result of these laws that favor one group of people over another.

Demilitarization is the white issue, equality is the black issue. People see these militarized cops trampling all over the freedom of speech and right to gather and protest and they can directly see how that would effect them in times of protest and as a result have become very vocal about it. But these same people don't see/care about the inequality in application of law and justice that blacks have been going through since forever because that doesn't directly affect them in anyway. So as a result they demand action on what does affect them, and maybe they'll get that change. However at the rate this country progresses for blacks and other minorities (because there is very much a difference in rate of progress for blacks vs whites) it's going to be another 25+ years before someone in a position of power takes a look at these laws and sees them for what they are.

So honestly I couldn't give a fuck about the demilitarization of police force; I really don't give a damn. I want to be able to drive down the street and not get stopped and worrying if this cop is going to kill me because he feels "threatened" by me; I want my brothers and sisters to be able to walk through a protest without getting maced and detained for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I want society to stop painting blacks as these savages and enacting laws that reinforce their fucked up views. I want less Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, <insert black person killed #76841> by the police because of some quota/perceived threat by the rest of the country.

Honestly, fuck the problems of white America. I'm tired of the focus on these "problems" I'm tired of the constant "well get to your problems after we address these problems" approach/attitude. Like no, fuck you we've been placed on this ever growing "To do" list since the fucking 60s. I'm tired of hearing about these really stupid ass "First world problems" I'm tired of hearing about "women's rights" that don't include the plight of black women, I'm tired of the reactionary "men's right advocates" that don't give two shits about the hilariously fucked disproportionate rate at which black men are locked up. Fuck this faux Gaza outrage, when people in your own fucking backyard are being treated like shit but we have people out here rallying about something happening across the Atlantic.

I'm tired of fucking hipster douche silver spoon fucks co-opting everything then dumping it when it's no longer "trendy". Like those fucks who wear those "I Am Trayvon Martin" shirts. No you're not, you're a white kid from the burbs who majored in fucking Art History while living off your trustfund. This will never be your reality; you sit in front of your computer making stupid caption pictures and sharing it with your friends, many of which don't give a single fuck. You then scour the internet for the next tragedy you can be a part of. Many of these assholes don't give a fuck past surface level interest. They sit in their little coffee shops drinking their overpriced shit water talking about "those poor black people, if only there was something like we could totes do". There is fecal breath, stop sharing those stupid images with dumb captions about "Civil Rights man!" and organize sit ins, gather people in your community to talk to your governor. Your facebook crusade is a crock of shit, I'd rather these people do nothing.
Black people make up all of 12% of the US population. I'm going to be painfully honest, there is very little we can do on our own without the help of a larger subset of the US population; but when the rest of the country doesn't give a shit. It absolutely sends a message to the rest of us and slowly but surely kills our morale. I've already done the cliche "send a letter to your governor" here in FL; I've been downtown and talked to people to get them to become aware...they don't give a fuck and that sends a message to me (and thus this long rant is really a cumulation of my frustrations at people's apathy over these past few days).

Don't get me wrong they are very much real issues, but they're issues that by some coincidence are always exclusionary towards minorities. I want women to have their rights, but I would love more for black women to stop being marginalized and being told their ugly by damn near everyone. Men's Rights? Man fuck that shit in general, boohoo. I'm not even going to address that shit because for the most part... simply put fuck men's rights. Talk to me about black men's rights first then I'll give a fuck about "men's" (read: white) perceived injustice. More women movies in lead roles? I'm down for that, but I'm more down for black women not being basically side pieces to these powerful white men despite the fact that vast majority of black/white relationships in America are black men/white women. I'd be down for the cause if these "more women in lead roles" also covered Asian females, black females, hispanic females. I'd be more down for that if there were more black/asian/hispanic females in Hollywood period; and fuck that stupid argument of "herp derp well maybe there aren't many Asian/Black/Hispanic women trying to be actresses".

You have a bunch of "patriots" who are all cheering this Bundy douche and people like him for "protecting our border" and being anti-government talking about how horrible the government is and how much power they're taking away from the people; but these same chucklefucks are silent when there is actual government fucketry going on in front of them. You have politicians talking about the "American" people but let this shit go on for fucking days while they play golf and snort lines of blow off the asscrack of a hooker while having their underpaid intern pen some shitty response about how bad they feel about how the police have handled things so far and sympathize with the people. No, politicians don't give a shit as long as their pockets continued to be lined by the industrial prison complex they have no incentive to change shit.

Honestly there are days where I am seriously like, fuck this country. This country is a big fucking facade; to the outside this place is fucking amazing and great and omg wow a shining beacon of human achievement, but look past the surface and it's shit; absolute unfiltered 100% no preservatives added shit.

"Things will change"…do people not realize just how long this line has been towed? Like this is all black people hear is that things will "change". What people don't tell anyone is that things will change...after this other issue is addressed. And these "issues" are always pages upon pages long.

Fuck it, it's 5:22am and I'm just venting, upset, frustrated with this country and the government on every level. This shit is ridiculous and inexcusable in every sense of the word. In 50 years shit will be the same for black people, but people will proclaim from the rooftops "look how much America has changed". My future kids' kids will be fighting the same battles that are being fought today.

Quoted for new page. Brilliant brilliant post.

What is needed is revolution
 
Angelus, what do you feel are some tangible goals/solutions to best tackle the covert/institutionalized racism?

Yes, I've been saying since Obama came into office that in my opinion one of his biggest failing is not even speaking on the institutional racism and the post Jim Crow era laws but rather doubling down on the rhetoric of "work hard and you can over come". He didn't need to enact any new laws or remove old racist ones (would be nice though), but by having the person of highest position in our country who is black speak on this would have done wonders for this country. It would have gotten people researching these laws and realizing that life isn't actually all peachy and American dreamy in the US.

Just speaking on it would have resulted in the GOP commenting on it (negatively) and Fox reporting on it, why by extension would have more moderate stations respond to their most likely racist statements and discussion would have spawned. Both good and bad this might have led to actual tangible change and not surface level ass-kissery. Better education across the board on the social inequality in our country is another thing, but that won't happen when a sizeable amount of our country are under the delusion that every thing is A-okay. That racism died with the Civil Rights Movement; and that black people are responsible for their condition today. I honestly think real unfiltiered teaching would do the best for this country. It will give people insight and give them a view of life in America through the eyes of someone not like them; it'll make kids ask questions that normally get sidestepped.

But as I stated prior the only time this racial injustice is ever brought up in the US is when a black youth is shot. The cop gets put on vacation, a few statements are made and the rest is swept under the rug. It's a controlled response that contains the situation and keeps the status quo. I don't have an answer for how to directly and quickly change that other than a complete overhaul of some of our laws which is where much of my frustration is born from, the feeling of being absolutely hopeless.

As one of the victims stated in Ferguson, politicians want the black vote but don't want to help them when they need it.
 
9:57 is the timestamp about the names. Two names are blurted out other than the already dismissed one. The name will only be released until the investigation is over and the person is formally charged.

I don't recall a 3rd name being said, but my memory is junk. I'm referring to the first one the reporter said.

And yeah, they need to wait until he's charged to announce his name, otherwise him and his family are in extreme danger. Think of it like that Dark Knight scene.
 
9:57 is the timestamp about the names. Two names are blurted out other than the already dismissed one. The name will only be released until the investigation is over and the person is formally charged.

I was wondering about this. I didn't hear it when I watched this initially but now I did. His reaction to the last one is pretty crazy. That expression of "oh fuck" is priceless.
 
I think the sad fact is that many facets of institutional racism can only be solved with time and long-term social change. With that said, there are some very concrete things that can be done to help us here and now. Maybe I'm misguided, because I'm no expert in sociology or economics or anything like that but it always felt like the issues sprung from the wealth gap. Laws can and should be put into place to help support and push minority families out of poverty. Better public assistance including a larger push toward childcare services during the working day(of course that means we trust local cities to handle childcare but one step at a time). More tax breaks for minority business owners. More tax breaks for hiring minorities. Affirmative action was a push in the right direction but it clearly hasn't been enough.

The benefits of this are abundantly clear, but it's obvious that the lopsided poverty lines have effected law enforcement and the psychology of law enforcement officers. I know this is a loaded comparison, but try to understand what I'm saying. What always struck me about the madness associated with how officers(at large) treat minorities is so similar to the madness that informs how Israel has treated Palestine. The psychological effect of only associating brown faces with crime(violence, theft, drug use, rape, etc) and areas that are effected most by crime just can't be overstated enough. Then of course there's the for-profit prison system that needs to be dealt with but that's a whole ball of wax.

I guess my perspective is ultimately that maybe it's not that existing laws aren't doing enough, it's that the absence of certain laws is what's holding back the change that we all deserve.
 
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