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Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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Jarmel said:
Here's the problem I have with this, if Brown was a possible robbery suspect, then why did Wilson tell him to get off the road instead of detaining him?

Wilson's response doesn't make sense in the context that he was looking for a suspect.
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Exactly. Why wouldn't they say this immediately. Why was he choked through a window? Why did Wilson leave after shooting?
 
Jarmel said:
Here's the problem I have with this, if Brown was a possible robbery suspect, then why did Wilson tell him to get off the road instead of detaining him?

Wilson's response doesn't make sense in the context that he was looking for a suspect.
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What is the officer's story with regard to why he stopped them?
 
Zoe said:
And to think people want cops to aim for arms and legs.



So far the only person saying that is how the incident started is the guy who never said anything about the robbery.
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So were ignoring the female witness right? Who said they were struggling through the window? Who tries to grab a robbery suspect through his window??
 
Captain_ron_poster.jpg
 
We still don't know what happened in the altercation between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown. And the following is not the same situation, I know that, but I just want to know.

However, I'm an average upstanding white guy, went to college, and have nothing on my record aside from 1 speeding ticket. I used to steal batteries from stores because I was a stupid teenager that didn't want to pay for batteries.

If a cop pulled up next to me and started asking me about the batteries, and then grabbed my arm from his car window so I couldn't run away, and I pushed him off of me and started running, would he be justified in shooting me?

I'm asking since this is one of a few possible occurrences, and one I could've seen myself doing in that situation. Would shoving a cop to release his grip on your arm so you could flee the scene and not get arrested be considered assault and grounds for lethal force?
 
People busy picking at evidence...does it seem strange that we're still talking about a guy that MAYBE stole a pack of cigarettes, fit a "description", and got shot in the goddamn back for it?

What in the FUCK, GAF. A guy still got killed, police bungled the living shit out of everything, and we're talking about whether or not some smokes got taken? Really?
 
Jarmel said:
Here's the problem I have with this, if Brown was a possible robbery suspect, then why did Wilson tell him to get off the road instead of detaining him?

Wilson's response doesn't make sense in the context that he was looking for a suspect.
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Exactly, even if Brown did rob the store, this proves that is was completely unrelated to the shooting.
 
Watching the video on MSNBC of the robbery. The man steals some cigars. That's a crime, yes. The man attempts to leave but the clerk, who does not appear elderly, gets in his way. The man then pushes the clerk out of the way. The clerk tries to stop the man again. The man moves towards him threateningly, and then turns around and leaves. Can anybody honestly say he deserved to die for that execution style? I honestly don't think a felony even occurred here.
 
xnipx said:
So were ignoring the female witness right? Who said they were struggling through the window? Who tries to grab a robbery suspect through his window??
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No, that's not ignoring her account. She didn't come in until after they had been stopped.

The friend said they were stopped for jaywalking and then it escalated because he talked back.
 
Punchy4486 said:
We still don't know what happened in the altercation between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown. And the following is not the same situation, I know that, but I just want to know.

However, I'm an average upstanding white guy, went to college, and have nothing on my record aside from 1 speeding ticket. I used to steal batteries from stores because I was a stupid teenager that didn't want to pay for batteries.

If a cop pulled up next to me and started asking me about the batteries, and then grabbed my arm from his car window so I couldn't run away, and I pushed him off of me and started running, would he be justified in shooting me?

I'm asking since this is one of a few possible occurrences, and one I could've seen myself doing in that situation. Would shoving a cop to release his grip on your arm so you could flee the scene and not get arrested be considered assault and grounds for lethal force?
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You're white, so no.
 
Omegasquash said:
People busy picking at evidence...does it seem strange that we're still talking about a guy that MAYBE stole a pack of cigarettes, fit a "description", and got shot in the goddamn back for it?

What in the FUCK, GAF. A guy still got killed, police bungled the living shit out of everything, and we're talking about whether or not some smokes got taken? Really?
Click to expand...

It's not a gaf issue only, people who cared about this issue all over will now be focusing on whether he was a criminal or not, rightly or wrongly.
 
Zoe said:
No, that's not ignoring her account. She didn't come in until after they had been stopped.
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But she said she saw a struggle through the car window. So once again I ask you what kind of police officer tries to detain a robbery suspect through his car window??
 
HuskerDutheDu said:
He did not.
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That's a shame. I think every single police vehicle should have a dash cam with audio. It would really tell a better story in these incidents, and frankly, I think the public has a right to this type of information. These aren't secret police. What they do should be public information.
 
Omegasquash said:
People busy picking at evidence...does it seem strange that we're still talking about a guy that MAYBE stole a pack of cigarettes, fit a "description", and got shot in the goddamn back for it?

What in the FUCK, GAF. A guy still got killed, police bungled the living shit out of everything, and we're talking about whether or not some smokes got taken? Really?
Click to expand...

But he isn't a "gentle giant" anymore! This supposedly changes a lot about the fact he got shot multiple times while fleeing unarmed!
 
xnipx said:
But she said she saw a struggle through the car window. So once again I ask you what kind of police officer tries to detain a robbery suspect through his car window??
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He didn't try to detain him through the car window. Even the friend said the cop tried to exit the vehicle.
 
CesspoolofHatred said:
Wait, they didn't tell Johnson about the packet?

It sounds like he just found out through the NEWS, and not through the police department himself.
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Why would they? If he's considered a suspect in it, they don't really need to give him anything.

Edit: OH you mean the other chief. Gotcha. My bad.

BruiserBear said:
That's a shame. I think every single police vehicle should have a dash cam with audio. It would really tell a better story in these incidents, and frankly, I think the public has a right to this type of information. These aren't secret police. What they do should be public information.
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Situations like this will likely lead to it in Ferguson, at the very least, if not lapel cams for all officers.
 
ISOM said:
It's not a gaf issue only, people who cared about this issue all over will now be focusing on whether he was a criminal or not, rightly or wrongly.
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Oh I know, I'm just looking at the community I'm in. Opinions nationwide are going to be shaped on this, and people are going to think it's OK that he was shot because he was an alleged criminal. It's not OK at all. It's literally leaning on a stereotype to reinforce it and it will fucking work.

God dammit.

Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
But he isn't a "gentle giant" anymore! This supposedly changes a lot about the fact he got shot multiple times while fleeing unarmed!
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Exactly. He's not a nice guy, he's a "thug" because that's how fucked up America is. It's the stereotype we've been shown forever. Use it, strengthen it, make racism all the more acceptable. What's next, let Klan members start hanging people because they felt threatened?
 
KHarvey16 said:
Was he trying to detain him?
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Wasn't the police officer's story that Brown punched him through the car window and then struggled with him to take his gun? That would be consistent with the witness account of there being a struggle at the car. Then again, this is all just talk, we need logistics, autopsies, etc.
 
I just noticed there is a man wearing similar clothing to what the robber wore, standing behind the cop in that conference. He's wearing that intentionally, right?
Edit: Actually I can't see his bottom half, could be wearing something completely different below the waist.
 
BronsonLee said:
Why would they? If he's considered a suspect in it, they don't really need to give him anything.



Situations like this will likely lead to it in Ferguson, at the very least, if not lapel cams for all officers.
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Sorry, I should have clarified, I'm talking about the guy on the stream right now, Captain Ron Johnson. Not one of the witnesses.
 
rjinaz said:
Watching the video on MSNBC of the robbery. The man steals some cigars. That's a crime, yes. The man attempts to leave but the clerk, who does not appear elderly, gets in his way. The man then pushes the clerk out of the way. The clerk tries to stop the man again. The man moves towards him threateningly, and then turns around and leaves. Can anybody honestly say he deserved to die for that execution style? I honestly don't think a felony even occurred here.
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Many will..right here on NeoGAF IN THIS VERY THREAD! Let's watch!
 
First off I am in no way defending the murder the cop is accused of because at this point that is what it was.... but this recent coming out about the robbery/possible robberies has me thinking.

The two female witness's say they saw a struggle between Brown and Wilson through the cop car (but never got in the car as the cops originally said). Is it possible Wilson saw Brown and asked me to get on the sidewalk so he could talk to him to determine where he has been, etc. before determining if this was the same guy (not just immediatly arresting him, but talking first). Things got heated between Wilson and Brown through the window as the girls said and a fight started between them, then the gun went off and the cop went nuts and chased/shot/killed Brown.

Again I am in no way defending Wilson, what he did is straight up murder, but I am beginning to wonder if the above is what may have happened.
 
Omegasquash said:
People busy picking at evidence...does it seem strange that we're still talking about a guy that MAYBE stole a pack of cigarettes, fit a "description", and got shot in the goddamn back for it?

What in the FUCK, GAF. A guy still got killed, police bungled the living shit out of everything, and we're talking about whether or not some smokes got taken? Really?
Click to expand...

Without the autopsy report, we don't even know if that happened. I know what the eyewitnesses say, but if it turns out there was only one shot from inside the car then nothing will happen to the officer. If multiple shots were fired from a distance then there is no justification.

Also, the officer would not get arrested until a crime has been proven to be committed. The investigation will determine whether this was a crime or not.
 
Gordon Shumway said:
Many will..right here on NeoGAF IN THIS VERY THREAD! Let's watch!
Click to expand...

They won't say it outright, but yes...there will be people that will "play devil's advocate" or "take a different viewpoint" and then try to defend the poor armed police officer because hey...what kind of a decision do you expect an officer of the law to make when they're under pressure, right?
 
rjinaz said:
I just noticed there is a man wearing similar clothing to what the robber wore, standing behind the cop in that conference. He's wearing that intentionally, right?
Edit: Actually I can't see his bottom half, could be wearing something completely different below the waist.
Click to expand...


It's odd, but probably a coincidence. Cardinals hats are probably everywhere.
lfxWJCa.jpg
 
Anyone have a number of the witnesses to the shooting and their names? Want to read their accounts vs police. Is there just two? Tried Google but it would just bring up the Dorion story.
 
BronsonLee said:
Situations like this will likely lead to it in Ferguson, at the very least, if not lapel cams for all officers.
Click to expand...

I would love to see that happen for every officer in the country. Only obstacle should be cost.

If we are a truly free and open country, there is no reason a citizen shouldn't be able to challenge any case in court, and have a video to refer back to from the officer's point of view. There would be no more disputes over what happened if we had that type of recording of every officer interaction. It would be right there for all to see.
 
Mr.Awesome said:
Anyone have a number of the witnesses to the shooting and their names? Want to read their accounts vs police. Is there just two?
Click to expand...


Mitchell told News 4 she saw a door close on a police car. An officer was inside and Brown, Jr. was on the outside. She said the two were arm wrestling through the car window. Mitchell said she then tried to pull out her phone to record. Shots then rang out.
“It just didn’t look right for them to be arm wrestling,” Mitchell said. “The first gun shot came from the window, so I just started getting out of the way.”

According to Mitchell, Brown, Jr, began to run away after the first shot was fired.
“After the shot, the kid just breaks away. The cop follows him, kept shooting, the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit. After his body jerked he turns around, puts his hands up, and the cop continues to walk up on him and continues to shoot until he goes all the way down,” Mitchell said.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...-in-Michael-Brown-shooting-provides-new-video


And another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8BG-B50xHo
 
Somnia said:
First off I am in no way defending the murder the cop is accused of because at this point that is what it was.... but this recent coming out about the robbery/possible robberies has me thinking.

The two female witness's say they saw a struggle between Brown and Wilson through the cop car (but never got in the car as the cops originally said). Is it possible Wilson saw Brown and asked me to get on the sidewalk so he could talk to him to determine where he has been, etc. before determining if this was the same guy (not just immediatly arresting him, but talking first). Things got heated between Wilson and Brown through the window as the girls said and a fight started between them, then the gun went off and the cop went nuts and chased/shot/killed Brown.

Again I am in no way defending Wilson, what he did is straight up murder, but I am beginning to wonder if the above is what may have happened.
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It's irrelevant. A red herring. Nothing that came out today makes Mike Brown's murder okay.
 
turtle553 said:
Without the autopsy report, we don't even know if that happened. I know what the eyewitnesses say, but if it turns out there was only one shot from inside the car then nothing will happen to the officer. If multiple shots were fired from a distance then there is no justification.

Also, the officer would not get arrested until a crime has been proven to be committed. The investigation will determine whether this was a crime or not.
Click to expand...

You'll forgive me for not trusting shit from any investigative committee. I agree with everything your saying, as it all seems in line with the law. I'm saying that a young man got killed because he maybe fit a description of someone that stole some smokes.

I'm also saying I don't think that would have happened if his skin was a different color.
 
Someone get this clear for me,

He shoplifted cigarettes, and assaulted an elderly man. Then when the officer questioned him on the street, they supposedly got into a scuffle in the police cars driver window, where he tried to reach for the police officers gun(?).

I don't know if its all true, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt, but if it is, maybe you shouldn't do all that stuff if you don't want a risk of getting put into harms way.
Not saying its right what happened either if its true.
 
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