Digital Foundry - Metro Redux (Console Analysis)
- Thread starter stryke
- Start date
Backfoggen
Banned
If you want to lock 60 fps there are going to be downgrades, especially if you port from PC-oriented games.
It really depends on the game, there are some games that absolutely need 60, some that don't. In this case I can understand their decision, especially at higher difficulty you need the faster response time.
It really depends on the game, there are some games that absolutely need 60, some that don't. In this case I can understand their decision, especially at higher difficulty you need the faster response time.
Yeah:
Not sure I like this. Where's the lights?
Man that guy made it so easy to discredit anyone who jerked off to his meltdown.
What a twat.
Dictator93
Member
Are you running advanced depth of field? If so, turn it off. That is an FPS killer, at rightfully so based upon how it works (how diffusion depth of field works).
4XMSAA + Advanced Depth of Field 52 fps
AAA + Advanced Depth of Field 64 fps
AAA + normal Depth of FIeld 81 fps
Dictator93
Member
Actually they aren't zoomed, just low quality and cropped (technically they are "downsampled" even).
The point is to show the lack of an effect, not say something about image quality.
Because we are not comparing small details, we are comparing something that is there to something that is completely missing.
ah okay that makes sense, still feel like people will just drive-by glance and just go "ew" though
Because it's enough to demonstrate that volumetric lighting has been severely toned down on PS4. I'm sure folks will put their own PC Redux vs PS4/XBO Redux comparisons in proper form.
I think it's more toned down than completely missing.
Dictator93
Member
I can 100% say it is completely missing in the scenes presented and has been replaced with billboard textures. Otherwise you would see the shadow shafts and movement interactions.
I agree with that sentiment, DF seriously needs to revamp their comparisons.
Go away. Do you play games or video?
CambriaRising
Member
So rude.
From a youtube video? O_O
Due to 3D not being all that relevant nowadays this is something that tends to be forgotten : 2033 is indeed incredible.
Dictator93
Member
3d in metro 2033 is absurdly good looking. My favorite part is the constant particulate matter in the air which is illuminated by light sources like your flash light, it gives you an amazing sense of depth.
Unfortunately years of hunting down, reading about, and examing graphics techniques has afforded me this "ability." To the point where I wish I could wish it away when I see a misplaced jaggy, a z-fighting issue, or a low sampled effect. Believe me, it can be a curse.
GhostTrick
Banned
Are you running advanced depth of field? If so, turn it off. That is an FPS killer, at rightfully so based upon how it works (how diffusion depth of field works).
4XMSAA + Advanced Depth of Field 52 fps
AAA + Advanced Depth of Field 64 fps
AAA + normal Depth of FIeld 81 fps
What's your PC configuration ? This might explain why I only got 50FPS on that scene with my R9 290 with AAA at 1080p.
Volumetric light can be replaced with blooming light shaft. It's quite cheap & not that different at the eye perception.
One is blurrier and darker than the other.
Yeah:
I think, this is the best example of coding to metal we have ;p
---
No, it cant, its one of the solutions to help the image, but its not a replacement. You lose volumetric effect after 80 degree angle.
Dictator93
Member
GTX 570 Tri-SLI. Core i7 930 @ 4.2 Not exactly a brutal PC anymore, 1 290 should be comparable I imagine.
Just turn off advanced depth of field. Believe me, its performance is not always worth what it does (most of the time it just adds a dynamic near weapon / near FOV depth of field). It can look cool, but if it means the difference from 40- to 60 fps. Don't bother IMO.
dis:
Screen space light shafts (cerpuslcular rays as they are called) generally only work well for a single light source that is extremley far in the distance (like a sun). Putting it on local sources shows lots of errors and would cause the shadow shafts to point towards player orgin, and not from whence they originate and to where they should project to.
Wow, that PC -> console downgrade is harsh. Considering I can get light shafts on my PC right now at a decent framerate... Cancelling preorder.
Will wait to buy it cheap on console or eventually play it on PC.
Again, I can't break into the PC version as is, but this port seems less good now. I mean, Killzone Shadow Fall does god rays, raytracing... all these effects and more at 60Hz (albiet 1/2 of 1080p)...
Will wait to buy it cheap on console or eventually play it on PC.
Again, I can't break into the PC version as is, but this port seems less good now. I mean, Killzone Shadow Fall does god rays, raytracing... all these effects and more at 60Hz (albiet 1/2 of 1080p)...
maybe don't judge it 100% off a youtube video
Dictator93
Member
The SSR in KZSF is not expensive (it is not raytracing), nor are the "god rays" in KZSF high res at all. They run at 1 quarter the screen resolution and have many artifacts.
The ones in metro render at whatever resolution you set the game to and have pretty much no artifacts (no banding, no upsampling errors, no temporal jittering).
Begaria
Member
angular graphics
Banned
I think so as well, but we'll see.
Dictator93
Member
Metro Last Light uses volumetric lighting, just much more sparsely (in Metro 2033 every scene had 1 or multiple, in Metro LL you have to search to find any at all). Also, the shading on the voluemtric fog (unlike 2033) is not very good and a lot of light sources have lower res shadows that lack the penumbra.
I'll take 1:1 pixles mapped 1080P any day. At least to me, the difference between 720/900/1080 are much more apparent than any of the FPS drops in TR or TLoU. But I'm also playing on a 70" calibrated display.
Do not skip Redux on consoles because of that, 4A Games have done a very good job overall.
60fps is very expensive no matter the hardware, 2033 maxed out is still very taxing.
it sacrifices AF too and is heavily lod'edIt's only expensive because it uses full resolution buffer for those lights. You can get away with using lower resolution buffer and have volumetric lights at 60FPS. TLoU remaster did this. So it's not something inherently not possible on consoles...even last gen consoles did it (Uncharted 3, TLoU, Alan Wake)
Like I said, I can play it on PC now at a decent framerate. And the effect is completely missing on console. Not like they couldn't scale the effect or anything. So now I can play Metro 2033 AND Killzone Shadowfall BOTH with volumetric lighting, no matter what resolution the lighting or games are rendered at, or I can play something apparently COD-looking with those missing effects, no thank you.
Summer Haze
Banned
SP is fully native 1080p.
Dictator93
Member
But then you induce all of the artifacting (as well as over-softening) which occurs.
Also, where does TLOU-remaster use volumetric lights? I would not mind seeing some screens of it!
As I stated earlier, comparing the volumetric lighting in KZSF to metro is disingenuous. One looks much better than the other.
To me Killzone ShadowFall looks much more technically impressive than Metro 2033 as-is, and I was considering buying Metro on console having experienced the PC version and expecting minor downgrades but nothing like this.
(I understand that in math theory some of these Metro effects are definitely more intensive, but if the overall result is inferior I say make the better aesthetic choice, which comes up to personal preference)
What make sense? That direct screen it's better of you tube capture? Volumetric light it's extremely expensive.
Dictator93
Member
Well the thing is, the effects that I am referring to are not only more more intesnsive from a numbers perspective, but objectively look better in teh categories that matter (aliasing, jitter, banding, etc...).
I totally agree that KZSF has a nice aesthetic and great material definitions (the game came out 4 years after, it better have something being more advanced), but I think it should be said that if you move form left to right whilst looking at a volumetric light source in KZSF, it totally bands and flickers.
What what now?
I like both quite a bit, but metro 2033 is more hardcore and more often "atmospheric" and "creepy." It has a soft spot in my heart.
They're both good, get them both,
KZSF use raytracing too. How can be less precise to the Metro? I though it was more advanced.
Dictator93
Member
It is not raytracing, it is called "screen space ray marching." It functions quite differently (not nearly as high quality or as robust, it breaks quite a bit).
Metro Last Light and Redux both use Screen space ray marching too btw.
All effects in metro are calculated at screen resolution (1080p or above), so they are less prone to artifacting. KZSF purposefully lowers the internal resolution of effects so as to have them run better. As a result, they have visible artifacts, especially in motion.
I mean, it makes sense why they do it (1.84TF) only goes so far. I can imagine the boxes are already strected quite thin doing 60fps in Metro Redux, any more effects would strain that flat 60fps (tesselation, higher resolution FX, etc...)