Every Amnesty International Twitter account the world over retweeted it or linked to it personally http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidne...akes-unprecedented-us-action-in-fergu#32kz8ts
Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
- Thread starter jordan0386
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Every Amnesty International Twitter account the world over retweeted it or linked to it personally http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidne...akes-unprecedented-us-action-in-fergu#32kz8ts
benjipwns
Banned
The Borg.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
look around
UltimaPooh
Member
It was a hypothetical. I realize what I was saying.
I find it odd no one is saying anything to the person who thinks a system can exist after there has already been one established with its roots in racism. How do you get outside such a thing in the first place to create a new system?
I like to think in a few hundred years pretty much everyone will be bi-racial to the point that there is no such thing as race. I wish I could read future history books.
I'm astounded by the solidarity this conflict is building from people around the world: from Palistinian families to Tibetan monks to the call of Amnesty International.
UltimaPooh
Member
Thanks! Just wanted to see an article on it.
Wow. This is crazy.
Like devo mentioned you should take care of things in your area, join grassroot movements, etc. You shouldn't give up, but if you want to take on the big shit, you need to first realize what your up against.
Dont think that is actually possible. Especially here in America, where we thrive on a "rich get richer" system. Someone has to be on the short end of the stick.
If you can map out a society where that doesn't happen you deserve a Nobel prize tho
Sol_Goodguy
Member
I've been loosely following this story for a few days now; it certainly has been a series of really unfortunate events. It's not exactly giving me faith in humanity.
I wouldn't have imagined a single police force could have so many systematic failures including: shooting an unarmed (and surrendering?) youth six times, intentionally aiming at protesters, manhandling the media, and the incident report for the shooting that was never made (did this change?). Most likely there are some good cops in the FPD but replacing the entire police force doesn't seem too extreme if you ask me. Perhaps I'm just ignorant. An actual police state with such a militarized police force would be pretty nightmarish.
Hopefully the shooter gets pegged with murder, but judging from everything that has happened, that's looking less and less likely. There wouldn't be any question if all cops had to wear body cams. Maybe this wouldn't have happened in the first place if these results suggest anything.
It would be great if someone could clarify some things for me:
I wouldn't have imagined a single police force could have so many systematic failures including: shooting an unarmed (and surrendering?) youth six times, intentionally aiming at protesters, manhandling the media, and the incident report for the shooting that was never made (did this change?). Most likely there are some good cops in the FPD but replacing the entire police force doesn't seem too extreme if you ask me. Perhaps I'm just ignorant. An actual police state with such a militarized police force would be pretty nightmarish.
Hopefully the shooter gets pegged with murder, but judging from everything that has happened, that's looking less and less likely. There wouldn't be any question if all cops had to wear body cams. Maybe this wouldn't have happened in the first place if these results suggest anything.
It would be great if someone could clarify some things for me:
- The night after Highway Patrol took charge was peaceful I believe. They are still in charge now, right? Why now are they significantly more aggressive than before?
- What are the consequences of calling in the National Guard? Martial Law?
- Are the looters primarily just criminal opportunists from out of town?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Has there been any insight over the autopsy report as to if he was shot in the back/front, how far away, and so on?
I'm sure people from three hundred years ago are looking at us from above and saying,
"New tech. Same bullshit."
I imagine it will be the same in the next few hundred years.
For context on local governance in St Louis, the County--importantly distinguished from the City--consists of about a million people divided among 90 municipalities. That's 90 of the most segregated municipalities around. Getting any kind of oversight or coordination done in St Louis is a Total Nightmare. St Louis government has been broken for years and years.
Devolution
Member
Did Bundy and his crew even deal with this shit and weren't those fellas armed?
From http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSumLargeMedia&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package&_r=5
6 Shots to the front. 4 in the arm, 2 in the head. Lack of gunpowder residue indicates it was from far away, but this Dr. didn't have access to his clothes.
benjipwns
Banned
Race is a social construct, most white people would be considered the equivalent of bi-racial to a society circa 1714 or something. Let alone even earlier.
Things have gotten better, even if it's not ideal right now. 50 years ago, people of color couldn't even use the same water fountain or go to the same school.
For the most part, I feel in society people are becoming more tolerant and/or open minded regarding race issues.
It's just the few assholes who were taught by their parents to have illogical hate still fucking shit up for everyone else.
I have to think in 50 years from this point that we would have to be in a better place. I wish it was something that could happen overnight, but I like to think of myself as a realist.
TastyOreoFriend
Member
It's saddening as well since we can't even seem to get such solidarity from even our own politicians.
Been fighting the good fight since I was old enough to have "the talk" about police with my dad. I'd like to think I have my own unique perspective being half and half Black/White. Social media has taught me more and more every day what I'm up against.
benjipwns
Banned
BLM is armed and has SWAT teams like most federal government agencies/departments including the Education Department, Fish and Wildlife Service, Railroad Retirement Board, etc.
EDIT: Misread this as "or weren't those [as in BLM] fellas armed?"
Chie Satonaka
Member
No.
Not only that, they were paraded around as "patriots" and "freedom fighters".
Bundy broke the law too, just like Brown did! Interesting that a group of people in control can completely rewrite the rules as they see fit.
I wonder how many Americans would have been outraged if the sheriff there put one right between Mr. Bundy's eyes.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Lack of residue would mean that he was not an immediate threat to the officer as he was too far away correct? Also, how does this report work out with the witness testimony? For instance did anyone say he got shot in the back or point blank vs what's being reported?
Hoping for more information.
"They have always asked us, 'What will you do, what will you do?' and our stance has always been we will do whatever it takes. Open-ended."
Patriots.
SlackAdjuster
Member
It's always the police' fault no matter what, eh?
Whatever happened to the guy who got shot last night anyway, I haven't seen any updates on his condition.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57881083-90/stewart-blm-bundy-agencies.html.csp
Been looking for news on this but all I can see is the 'critical condition' reported yesterday.
timetokill
Banned
Ugh, my dad came to me today and said "so I heard that guy robbed a store and was charging the officer when he was shot."
Fucking hell.
Does anybody have a link specifically refuting the "charging the officer" bit?
Fucking hell.
Does anybody have a link specifically refuting the "charging the officer" bit?
We've hit a serious boiling point. We all knew this stuff was there but not until now have many finally seen it with our own eyes. "if it doesn't effect me then it doesn't matter to me" is the constant theme that the extremes have to be put in front of them for them to finally get it. But this only feels like history repeating. I don't want things to escalate further, I want everyone safe and sound. We shouldn't be reliving the 60's! Just hearing the National Guard moving in has me terrified for everyone.
We're all human beings and we should all be treated and respected as one.
The guy doing the autopsy didn't have any information outside of what he could get from the body so he said there wasn't enough information to say exactly how it played out. Going from the information we do have, it's looking like the eyewitness testimony is close to what happened.
CrimsonCommie
Member
Yeah this "rich get richer" system is a huge problem here and all over the world. Racism is in our laws and everything else. And I'm not talking about something that can be accomplished in our lifetimes. We need completely new laws that don't allow this kind of discrimination to happen instead of trying to fix racist ones; that hasn't worked yet. Of course there will still be racist people but we have to take away their power to discriminate. Hell I could be wrong and we might be able to fix this country with how it is in its current state. I'm losing faith that will happen though.
Yeah it is the polices fault. They were in full combat gear troops in Iraq didn't even get to enjoy yet they let unarmed, unarmored civilians risk their lives to stop looters.
It is never the job of civilians to be doing the tasks assigned to law enforcement. The fact civilians had to is bullshit
CrimsonCommie
Member
And this has stopped institutionalized racism?
benjipwns
Banned
No, because like any law it depends on the rule of men.
So I don't see how you can create "completely new laws that don't allow this discrimination" when we already have one like that that works as well as the goggles.
CrimsonCommie
Member
That was my other point about it being impossible to fix the way things are now. This kind of racism is embedded in all the other laws and every other aspect of this country. And the people in power are still given the ability to discriminate. I believe we have to recognize the roots of this problem which I believe are in the very roots of this country, the Constitution and laws. Which were written by racist upper class white men to be advantageous for racist upper class white men.
What is the difference between the below two scnarios:
A police state where the press is controlled so systematic abuses of power go unrecorded and unreported and so the public do nothing.
A police state where the press is free to report on systematic abuses of power; and the public do nothing out of a vested interest for stability.
The end result is the same. Everyone in America is hedging their bets that they will come for their neighbours and not them.
A police state where the press is controlled so systematic abuses of power go unrecorded and unreported and so the public do nothing.
A police state where the press is free to report on systematic abuses of power; and the public do nothing out of a vested interest for stability.
The end result is the same. Everyone in America is hedging their bets that they will come for their neighbours and not them.
The first step should be encouraging the community to become part of the solution. Why is there a 70 percent black population and hardly any black police? Correct me if I'm wrong but I always hear it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a police officer in the US so obviously its not an education issue.
benjipwns
Banned
But they aren't rhetorically. The Declaration and Constitution is silent on race (other than two implicit nods to then current circumstance) and especially the former is big on the universality of human rights.
The problem again is rule of men. When you can declare someone to not be human then you have no need to extend them the universal human rights you agree exist. (Or when you're hypocritical because your well being is dependent on their continued violation.)
Taken literally, as only the content in the text, they reject racism and other divisions that men setup to justify their crimes. But men seek to find exceptions.
The Lubricant will be available experimentally in 2034. I hope you have 2 million US saved up.
Three questions would need to be asked first:
- Are the Police racially hiring?
- Are the black community not attracted to law enforcement as a career? If so, why?
- Is policing even attractive to the other communities? Or is it the case that its a 'family business'?
A lot of US policing strikes me as quite family based but I am not sure how much a stereotype that is. I suspect its a mixture of the above.
It would be very very advantageous for local politicians to push for a hiring process; you shouldn't even need positive discrimination in a 70% black population.
SlackAdjuster
Member
It is the job of civilians to be civil. I think its fucking awesome that good people of the area shut that dumb shit down for the most part.
As for the police, did you expect them to be out there in t-shirts and khakis? Just be realistic please, its all I ask. They are dressed the same way when they are busting a drug house with a few people inside of it. Why wouldn't they be prepared for a potentially violent situation involving large amounts of people?
hiphoptherobot
Member
True. However, while the entire county is technically within their jurisdiction, they only police 16 of those municipalities. The remaining areas have their own police departments. So for example, while both Fenton and Richmond Heights are towns within the county, Fenton is policed by the Saint Louis County PD while Richmond Heights has its own police force.
More importantly, I hope this ends soon. The department really bungled this whole situation from the start. And now the media has found an opportunity to turn Ferguson into the set for The Great Race War 2014. That poor town is going to take a long time to recover from the damage done from this. I think these are important issues that need to be discussed and dealt with but we need to leave Ferguson alone.
benjipwns
Banned
We can figure this out with two assumptions:
Assume that a criminal background deters from getting a job as police. Either because of department standards or just a desire to avoid further interactions with police.
Assume that police/prosecutors are arresting and convicting blacks in a disproportional and extensive manner.
This would shrink the pool of available black talent even without any racial discrimination in the hiring process.
CrimsonCommie
Member
Yeah you're right maybe it's not necessarily the laws but the fact that we still have rich racist white men running this country and having all the power.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
That's along the lines of what I was trying to get at before, in this thread and others. Racism is a big issue but it's impossible to solve it completely. However, through education, reform, awareness, fighting income inequality, we can minimize the issues of racism. At least I hope we can.
benjipwns
Banned
As a communist you're well aware of how the threat of foreign/black/hispanic/Irish workers talking "our" jobs or resources can thwart class solidarity. Even if the elite may instigate that, those type of views don't spring solely from on high.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
If you haven't seen it watch the documentary The One Percent. It's made by the son of one of the Johnson & Johnson owners. It's really fucked up how crazy some of the people are that own the steering wheel to this country.
When police are busting a drug house they are addressing a criminal offense though. A peaceful protest isn't a criminal offense. Yeah the police should be ready to protect themselves but they have to be aware of the message they are sending. Remember the response they received when they arrived in their normal police attire. People responded positively even after the police aggravated them the night before. It's a relationship of trust and riot gear just shows the community that you don't trust them. The police should be protecting the protesters and community by giving them a safe area to vent their ideas and emotions. What have these officers protected so far?
One, protesting isn't a crime while a running a drug operation is. Two, being in riot gear sends a message of hostility to the community. It basically says, "We are here to shut this shit down" not "We are here to make sure things don't get out of hand when your protesting" so you can't be surprised when people become hostile.
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