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[Punchy4486]

I think it really started to irritate me when a couple of years ago the trailer for Doctor Who played on an American comic con event before it was aired in the UK. In fact I don't think it was ever shown here in Britain.

When international audiences get priority over the very people who (indirectly) fund the show... Well, that's when I feel that getting annoyed is justifiable. If they want to pull this stuff off then spin the show off onto whatever commercial entity the BBC has running and fund the show directly that way.

Americans didn't ruin Doctor Who...






...We ruined Torchwood. Sorry about that.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Nah. NAH. We are not taking credit for that. That was still RTD. He was still steering that particular ship when he crashed it into the world's time-vagina at the center of the earth.

That's not America's fault.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

I've slowly been going off Doctor Who. I honestly it is largely because of how overblown the fandom has become.

It used to be this British product that we proudly exported out to everyone, but now it seems to be something shaped by American sensibilities. And that kind of bugs me a little bit.

This "British product"

Spoiler

....created mostly by a Canadian.

 

[mclem]

Oh, and that money doesn't really go back into the show. When they wanna do US location shoots, BBC America helps fund that, but that's about it. For the most part, the TV show is entirely influenced by taxpayer money, and the rest is superfluous.

While that's directly true, I think the reason it commands the budgets it does is, in part, due to the fact that it's such a lucrative property for overseas broadcasting and merchandising.

 

[Axiom]

This is what I posted on the comments under the New York Q&A video:

As an Aussie and thus someone in a country where Doctor Who was a big deal for almost as long as it was in the UK, this attitude doesn't ring true to me.
Doctor Who being treated like a show that's a global success was a long fucking time coming.

For the vast majority of its run, Doctor Who was not a minor hit with a cult international following, like say Red Dwarf. I get the impression that people don't realise how successful classic Doctor Who actually was around around the world.

Just because it remained a cult show in the US doesn't mean that's the whole story, nor diminish the international success it did have.
While the show was cancelled in '89, it was considered to have jumped the shark and become a joke in its own country long before that, and thus a generation has grown up only knowing that impression of Doctor Who. Mostly a generation that would be hanging out on a forum like this.

But there was decades of real global success before that, success that the BBC did fuck all with.

So what if they're marketing the hell out of themselves in the US? Has the show compromised its Britishness at all?

I don't understand the complaint about the "reveal" special, you may be inundated with news of the new Doctor and the like, but that's not the case everywhere (even places with substantial fanbases) and that special made Doctor Who out to be a huge deal and led to TV news coverage that otherwise wouldn't have existed.
Showing some exclusive clips at ComicCon may be annoying, but it's not like they hired a British actress to pretend she's American for the US market like ClassicWho did.

Making an international fanbase for an internationally successful show feel included is pretty damn nice frankly.

Having men and women in equal measure with varying accents all attracted to a distinctly British show is something to be bloody proud of I think.

 

[ClivePwned]

While that's directly true, I think the reason it commands the budgets it does is, in part, due to the fact that it's such a lucrative property for overseas broadcasting and merchandising.

I'd rather have it the way it is now.

The difference was that in old days, even when the series was the most profitable BBC property in terms of overseas sales and merchandising, the BBC still wanted to strangle it and cancel it. Which they did quite successfully.

I'd rather have the show as it is now, with passionate fans, a decent budget and proper marketing by a BBC not embarrased to making the show.

God, teens are discovering and loving the old series claiming "Two is my Doctor."
That's wonderful

Spoiler

and slightly irritating to old farts like me, but what the hell

.

If you want to see UK-made series pandering to US audiences, look up shows like The Saint, Department S, The Persuaders, The Champions or anything from Gerry Anderson.

In short, it's a great time to be a fan of the series. If you don't like the other fans, just watch the show and leave it at that.

 

[BigWeather]

Having started watching Dr. Who in the late 70s I'm still taken aback by how popular it is now. That's a GOOD thing, however, and as long as the American (or any other non-British) market doesn't influence the content of the show I'm happy. I'm extremely happy that new Doctor Who didn't jettison any canon, keeping even the 8th Doctor. I'd have been upset if they'd pretended the past didn't happen and rebooted it all. That is something I'd expect them to do to attract US audiences, thankfully that didn't happen.

Personally my favorite Doctor is Peter Davison and I still prefer old Who to new, but I'm thankful for the relevance that new Who has brought to the series, and that it was the hook needed to get my 17yo daughter into the show as well.

 

[Hot Coldman]

While that's directly true, I think the reason it commands the budgets it does is, in part, due to the fact that it's such a lucrative property for overseas broadcasting and merchandising.

I was simplifying, yeah. Indirectly, the overseas audience is a good impetus for the increase in budget (or rather, a lack of decrease; god knows what the show would be working with nowadays if it was still just mostly a British thing).

But on the books, you won't see anything outside of taxpayer money, usually.

 

[paradox121]

Nah. NAH. We are not taking credit for that. That was still RTD. He was still steering that particular ship when he crashed it into the world's time-vagina at the center of the earth.

That's not America's fault.

Ha. That brings back memories.

Oh Torchwood. You wonderful idiot, you.

 

[Vibranium]

I'd rather have it the way it is now.

The difference was that in old days, even when the series was the most profitable BBC property in terms of overseas sales and merchandising, the BBC still wanted to strangle it and cancel it. Which they did quite successfully.

I'd rather have the show as it is now, with passionate fans, a decent budget and proper marketing by a BBC not embarrased to making the show.

God, teens are discovering and loving the old series claiming "Two is my Doctor."
That's wonderful

Spoiler

and slightly irritating to old farts like me, but what the hell

.

Heh. I'm just out of my teens and watching Classic Who. But unlike tons of people I love every single Doctor. Haven't watched the Peter Cushing movies yet though, I'll get around to that sometime.

I wish more people would learn to enjoy and go along with a new Doctor, you're missing out on a lot in my opinion. It's so fun to watch a character change with every new actor. None of this "my Doctor" stuff, my Doctor is every actor in the role.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

Americans didn't ruin Doctor Who...






...We ruined Torchwood. Sorry about that.

You can't ruin something that's already terrible to begin with.

Spoiler

Children of Earth was OK, I guess.

 

[Magwik]

You can't ruin something that's already terrible to begin with.

Spoiler

Children of Earth was OK, I guess.

Children of Earth was fantastic.

 

[APZonerunner]

Nah. NAH. We are not taking credit for that. That was still RTD. He was still steering that particular ship when he crashed it into the world's time-vagina at the center of the earth.

That's not America's fault.

In fairness, RTD was barely involved with Miracle Day beyond the initial concept, because that's when he found out his partner had cancer and dropped all the work. Think that's part of why that series went off the rails, in fact.

 

[JonathanEx]

Here's Capaldi interrupting BBC One. I didn't spot the Dalek the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIraLfBaNss

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

In fairness, RTD was barely involved with Miracle Day beyond the initial concept, because that's when he found out his partner had cancer and dropped all the work. Think that's part of why that series went off the rails, in fact.

Yeah, from what I recall he only wrote one episode (and co-wrote one other). Jane Espenson was responsible for most of Miracle Day.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Last summer one of the kids I was working with made this. I think the minifig in particular is really good

Rubbish, the windows are the wrong size.

 

[Quick]

This "British product"

Spoiler

....created mostly by a Canadian.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

This "British product"

Spoiler

....created mostly by a Canadian.

Next you'll be saying he created The Avengers.

 

[ClivePwned]

Next you'll be saying he created The Avengers.

Bam!

 

[Dalek]

In fairness, RTD was barely involved with Miracle Day beyond the initial concept, because that's when he found out his partner had cancer and dropped all the work. Think that's part of why that series went off the rails, in fact.

That makes so much sense now. Poor guy.

 

[gabbo]

Yeah, from what I recall he only wrote one episode (and co-wrote one other). Jane Espenson was responsible for most of Miracle Day.

Has she done anything well since Buffy?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

She wrote an okay episode of Battlestar Galactica.

I think she did an alright hour of Supernatural once.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Little nice video of the opening of an animation series of Doctor who done in Gravity Falss style:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALcQh2HqKT4
I really like the intro with all the doctors in it. An animated series could give the liberty of using all the doctors like no other visual media has.

Spoiler

Not using the screwdriver as a source of light instead of a torch in the intro is seriously off putting for some reason lol

 

[twobear]

I think it really started to irritate me when a couple of years ago the trailer for Doctor Who played on an American comic con event before it was aired in the UK. In fact I don't think it was ever shown here in Britain.

When international audiences get priority over the very people who (indirectly) fund the show... Well, that's when I feel that getting annoyed is justifiable. If they want to pull this stuff off then spin the show off onto whatever commercial entity the BBC has running and fund the show directly that way.

I agree to some extent, but actually I think that an increasing amount of Doctor Who's funding comes from BBC Worldwide (predominantly from US funding). The show is increasingly set in the US for the same reason (by increasingly I mean that there are stories set there at all).

You might worry that it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy though, in the sense that they get an increasing amount of money from appeal to US fans, and so over time they're incentivised to pitch it more to US fans for that reason, which leads to more US funding, etc. etc.

 

[APZonerunner]

Just saw a YouTube ad for London tourism starring David Harewood - the man that RTD said would've been somewhere near the top of his list to cast as 11 once Tennant left had he been staying on as Exec Producer. The ad made me think - he would've been and still would be magnificent. And while prior to Capaldi I would've said "He'll probably be too old by the time we're at 13", he now most certainly isn't, along with many other wonderful names. I'm so glad we've had an older Doctor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfLN5XqkStM

(Yes, he has been in RTD's Who before.)

 

[The Elite]

Just saw a YouTube ad for London tourism starring David Harewood - the man that RTD said would've been somewhere near the top of his list to cast as 11 once Tennant left had he been staying on as Exec Producer. The ad made me think - he would've been and still would be magnificent. And while prior to Capaldi I would've said "He'll probably be too old by the time we're at 13", he now most certainly isn't, along with many other wonderful names. I'm so glad we've had an older Doctor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfLN5XqkStM

(Yes, he has been in RTD's Who before.)

Yeah, he has a great voice for it.

 

[Boem]

Just saw a YouTube ad for London tourism starring David Harewood - the man that RTD said would've been somewhere near the top of his list to cast as 11 once Tennant left had he been staying on as Exec Producer. The ad made me think - he would've been and still would be magnificent. And while prior to Capaldi I would've said "He'll probably be too old by the time we're at 13", he now most certainly isn't, along with many other wonderful names. I'm so glad we've had an older Doctor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfLN5XqkStM

(Yes, he has been in RTD's Who before.)

I'd be totally down for that.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Just saw a YouTube ad for London tourism starring David Harewood - the man that RTD said would've been somewhere near the top of his list to cast as 11 once Tennant left had he been staying on as Exec Producer. The ad made me think - he would've been and still would be magnificent. And while prior to Capaldi I would've said "He'll probably be too old by the time we're at 13", he now most certainly isn't, along with many other wonderful names. I'm so glad we've had an older Doctor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfLN5XqkStM

(Yes, he has been in RTD's Who before.)

I dont even know who this actor is and still gave me chills. Could make a really good cool and calmed doctor.

 

[liquidtmd]

The popularity of Doctor Who historically is fascinating in context of other shows that have failed because, and I say this with respect as a fan, a lot of episodes have been shittly plotted and are very flawed.

But its always been charming

 

[Mindwipe]

When they start investing some of that commercially acquired money into the show (I'd wager they're legally not allowed to - hence the budget that never increases) then they can do what they please.

Some money goes back in to the show in that it goes back in to the BBC as a whole, and some goes back in through funny methods - things like prequels are often funded by them, or specific things they can cofund (like the America two-parter). But it can't all go back in because of BBC rules.

This is not strictly speaking true.

While BBC Worldwide's profits are returned to the BBC coffers as a whole and not to the show directly, BBC Worldwide have to acquire the rights to the show from the BBC (BBCW is a separate company, and just giving it to them would be a breach of European State Aid law), for which they pay for at market rate. While that also goes to BBC drama, in the last few years (since the start of S5 IIRC) BBC Worldwide, through BBC America, decided to directly co-invest in the show itself as CBC used to, so they put the money in in advance. That means it can go to the show itself.

And it's a good job it does - BBC drama shows have been required to find 5% year on year efficiency savings for some years now, so the show would look pretty bloody crappy at this point if it wasn't for said co-production money.

 

[JonathanEx]

Good news! Episode titles are no longer spoilerific, it's all been released:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/New-Series-All-the-Episode-Titles-and-More

Episode 1: Deep Breath.
Written by Steven Moffat
Directed by Ben Wheatley

Episode 2: Into The Dalek
Written by Phil Ford and Steven Moffat
Directed by Ben Wheatley
Introducing Samuel Anderson as Danny Pink.

Episode 3: Robot Of Sherwood
Written by Mark Gatiss
Directed by Paul Murphy

Episode 4: Listen
Written by Steven Moffat
Directed by Douglas MacKinnon

Episode 5: Time Heist
Written by Stephen Thompson and Steven Moffat
Directed by Douglas MacKinnon

Episode 6: The Caretaker
Written by Gareth Roberts and Steven Moffat
Directed by Paul Murphy

Episode 7: Kill The Moon
Written by Peter Harness
Directed by Paul Wilmshurst

Episode 8: Mummy On The Orient Express
Written by Jamie Mathieson
Directed by Paul Wilmshurst

Episode 9: Flatline
Written by Jamie Mathieson
Directed by Douglas MacKinnon

Episode 10: In The Forest Of The Night
Written by Frank Cottrell Boyce
Directed by Sheree Folkson

Episode 11/12 Dark Water/Death In Heaven
Written by Steven Moffat
Directed by Rachel Talalay

 

[The Elite]

Only the one two parter?

I'm starting to think with the 45 minute running time that I would like more two-parters throughout the season. It would give some stories the room they need to breath. At least one more two parter now that the season is one episode shorter.

 

[paradox121]

Those are some classy episode titles. I love the sound of Dark Water.

Though 'The Caretaker'? Come on Gareth Roberts. Spice it up a bit.

Also being a picky linguist: Shouldn't it either be The Robot of Sherwood or Robots of Sherwood. Seems odd.

 

[Exterminieren]

Moffat's been co-credited on Into The Dalek, Time Heist and The Caretaker.

Maybe he's being credited for the bits establishing Danny Pink?

 

[paradox121]

Moffat's been co-credited on Into The Dalek, Time Heist and The Caretaker.

Maybe he's being credited for the bits establishing Danny Pink?

I swear there was an article the other day that said this season was mostly standalone episodes except for the odd little bit at the beginning and end. So maybe he did those?

He did that bit at the end of Crimson Horror right?

 

[twobear]

The popularity of Doctor Who historically is fanscinating in context of other shows that have failed because, and I say this with respect as a fan, a lot of episodes have been shittly plotted and are very flawed.

But its always been charming
charming.

I was thinking the exact same thing about 20 minutes ago.

Although I actually think that the 'charm' isn't enough for me any more. I keep watching Who because I grew up with it and I love the universe, but particularly Moffat's reign is really turning me off it now.

 

[acheron_xl]

Moffat's been co-credited on Into The Dalek, Time Heist and The Caretaker.

Maybe he's being credited for the bits establishing Danny Pink?

I wonder. I don't think RTD ever took a credit for a rewrite, and he did loads.

 

[Ade]

Moffat's been co-credited on Into The Dalek, Time Heist and The Caretaker.

Possibly bits that involve set up for the season finale?

 

[rezuth]

Episode 8: Mummy On The Orient Express

Straight into my veins

 

[mclem]

It's probably not a good sign that when I saw Time Heist, my mind instantly went to Time Lash, one of the candidates for the worst ever story. Although I suppose the excellent Big Finish "Grand Theft Cosmos" could also fit the bill.

 

[Kathian]

I wonder. I don't think RTD ever took a credit for a rewrite, and he did loads.

Waters of Mars

 

[Mindwipe]

Moffat's been co-credited on Into The Dalek, Time Heist and The Caretaker.

Maybe he's being credited for the bits establishing Danny Pink?

Wouldn't be given for that. Otherwise RTD would have had a co-writing credit for virtually every episode under his watch.

Probably means he did a script redraft (not neccessarily the final one), or that they were his concepts written by someone else.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Straight into my veins

"Och, sorry I'm about eleven-hundred years late"
"...You are?"

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

The also released the title poster for the first episode.

 

[Android18a]

Those are some classy episode titles. I love the sound of Dark Water.

Though 'The Caretaker'? Come on Gareth Roberts. Spice it up a bit.

Also being a picky linguist: Shouldn't it either be The Robot of Sherwood or Robots of Sherwood. Seems odd.

It's probably a play on Robin of Sherwood, where you wouldn't say The Robin, or Robins.

^ Also, that poster. New intern at the BBC I guess?

 

[Slowdive]

That poster is worse than any from series 7.

 

[acheron_xl]

Waters of Mars

Hmmm. I guess Phil Ford just needs the help and doesn't have an ego?

 

[The Elite]

The also released the title poster for the first episode.

This is a terrible mess. I refuse to believe it's even real.

 

[Exterminieren]

The also released the title poster for the first episode.

Oof.

All the imagery and concepts they could have used for a poster, and they go for that?

 

[M.Bluth]

Considering how well, how much of an upgrade, their trailers have gotten for this season, it's simply ridiculous that we're still getting shitty posters.

BBC!