forgeforsaken
Member
Bit odd that for a guy of Brown's size there were no center mass shots.
Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
- Thread starter jordan0386
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On MSNBC, one of the guests they had on said he wasn't charged because after Mike handed him the cigars, he put them back on the counter and didn't leave with them out the store. I'm not sure if that makes sense for why he wasn't charged for being an accessory or accomplice to Brown though.
That's not making up facts. Right now there is no criminal case against Wilson. An arrest of Dorian Johnson would just rile the pot up moreso in an already tense situation.
I'm not super familiar with Missouri law, but what does the DA have to gain by trying Dorian Johnson at this point? It pisses off the community to put a charge that is hard to prove and probably will carry very little repercussions because the tape (as far as we've seen it) shows that he was just present with Brown as he committed the act.
Even if he doesn't have a record that proves nothing anyway. He may not have ever been in that position before. He may have been reacting to getting ruffed up by Brown if that's what happened.
BronsonLee
Member
I think the possibility of this happening is gone now.
Gonna watch the episode later.
Unless you have evidence to present that the cops decided not to charge Darien Johnson due to political reasons, that's exactly what it is. Do you have such evidence?
benjipwns
Banned
You're probably right. So no grand statements, just a small press release when the internal investigation is completed in six months and finds that it was a good shoot.
DragonSworne
Banned
It's the governor who put the curfew in place. People don't realize how shifty the governor has been in this whole situation.
More_Badass
Member
Ferguson isn't being torn apart by rioting mobs, entire streets aren't aflame. Yes, someone was shot last night, yes there are assholes looting and causing trouble, but I really think that National Guard is a hugely disproportionate response to what I've seen on the live streams the past two-three nights.
And that is a super plausible explanation for what happened. Why haven't any of the witnesses posited that this is the way it went down? I'd be more inclined to believe that this is what happened if a single witness offered this up as an explanation and not just "he fired at the guys back without provocation because he was walking down the middle of the road."
You're not even making sense...
They release a video of Brown pushing a store clerk out of his way at the same time they release Wilson's name, and that amps up the already tense situation, but they won't arrest Johnson because they don't want to amp up the already tense situation? What?
he's joking.
Agreed. The teenager was 6' 4" and slightly below 300 lbs. Center mass would seem like an easy and effective area to hit, but I don't know what areas of the body cops are trained to shoot at.
Experience with family members who are Chicago homicide detectives. Does that count? Ideally if the guy was guilty he'd be charged, but this isn't exactly an unreasonable leap of logic.
And once again, the idiotic smear campaign the sheriff essentially started should have no bearing. Without a willing prosecutor to pursue a charge, the police do not have the power to push the a criminal case to the courts.
jamesinclair
Banned
Did you watch the video? Dorian Johnson put the cigars back, he committed no crime.
If he HAD taken one, you can bet your ass hed been arrested as a way to discredit hsi testimony. You know, in the exact same manner you did.
Yes, an arrest would rile things up. Just like releasing the video, against the advice of both the DOJ and the highway people. They did it anyway.
You know what else riles people up? Shooting tear gas at the sound of a firework. A curfew on a Saturday is another good way.
It counts as a solid reason to put you on ignore.
BronsonLee
Member
Haha, I get you're rolling with worst case scenario stuff, but I think their ability to sweep anything under the rug died when they rolled in military gear vs protests, and then the corpse was shot like 1000 times when they started pissing off the media.
No.
Wrong. Tiffany Mitchell said there was some sort of altercation beforehand while the cop was still in his car.
No, of course it doesn't count. It's speculation without evidence, and you're attempting to use it to contradict eye witness testimony. It's incredibly disingenuous.
jamesinclair
Banned
Yes, they said the department bought cameras and never installed them.
This is the same department that had a broken VCR when an innocent man was arrested and beat up in the jail, and the same department that filed charges against this man a year later when he filed a civil suit.
Trail Guide
Member
White cop comparing black people to dogs. The embodiment of everything wrong in this situation.
You're the one incorrectly labeling Johnson an accomplice.
Of course they can't charge him as an accomplice, it's because he's innocent of that charge, which you seem to think it's because of goodwill by the police department.
You can't see the twisted cycle of logic you have going on?
You're turning your assessments into "facts".
The actual facts from the autopsy is:
-He was shot 6 times.
-They recovered three bullets from the body (They don't say from where in the body.)
-The trajectory of only ONE bullet is shown in the report
-A coroner who does this for a living says this autopsy report doesn't contain enough information to definitely say how the situation went down.
Yes, you are making up facts.
Or, and I know this is crazy, but maybe Johnson didn't actually do anything:
The video shows Brown passing something back to Johnson, but it also shows Johnson placing it back on the counter.http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/michael-brown-a-suspect-in-robbery-of-cigars-from-store/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html said:
The only evidence we have is witness testimony and an autopsy report. This entire thread is speculation without evidence. My original post said that the autopsy report made this situation seem a lot more 50/50 than 100% one way or the other. I even caveated that the results of the GSR tests would tell us more.
The only claim i'm making is that criminal charges are subject to political pressures, and considering I've heard numerous stories from family members and friends who are in law enforcement as to how political the court system can be in regards to charging suspects, I feel i'm qualified to make that claim.
If I have to state before so that it's just an informed opinion of how the criminal justice system is dysfunctional using anecdotal evidence from life experience, I can do that.
It's a shame that a young man was killed, my belief is that this story is way murkier than originally framed.
Well, then it's a mistake. Brown was constantly referred to as a suspect in a robbery (and before someone says it, yes I know Wilson was not aware when he engaged him). I have not seen the police retract that story until now.
benjipwns
Banned
That's why they're bringing in the Guard. It won't be as likely to fuckup and cause trouble firing tear gas and crap at people so in two days the Governor can declare the "state of emergency" over and the local media can write about his quick thinking to end the crisis.
And then he can get back to Ham Breakfasts.
Brown, yes. Not Johnson.
Steve Youngblood
Member
There's more important work than Ham Breakfasts: appearing at state fairs.
We're talking about Johnson.
My use of the word accomplice referring to Johnson was predicated on the fact that he was with Brown who was considered a suspect.
BronsonLee
Member
There is no logical way you can posit that it is 50/50 without making some extreme assumptions in the favor of Wilson. That autopsy report, contrary to your belief, does not immediately wipe away the eyewitness accounts. It means there's a discrepancy.
He was with Brown at the time that Brown is alleged to have committed a robbery and/or theft.
benjipwns
Banned
But not this years...
Quite frankly he should consider suing the residents of Ferguson on behalf of the rest of the state for depriving them of his appearances.
Bluekaveli
Member
I thought the family would be holding a press conference at 10?
Doesn't matter. Johnson has been cleared in literally every way possible. Even if they wanted to charge him with something, they can't. He returned the items given to him, he's not at fault at all. Additionally, the store clerk said he would not have pressed charges against Johnson OR Brown, further invalidating this claim. Finally, the DOJ has said that releasing the video was inflammatory and non-responsive to the Freedom of Information Act. They said this has no bearing on the case, and it doesn't matter. So unless you're saying that you have more authority and knowledge on this than the Department of Justice, I'd say you stop disregarding Johnson's testimony, and stop bringing up the store altogether.
speculawyer
Member
This is pretty sad. The shooting was a terrible unjust incident. But the violence in response is going to make matters worse for African-Americans, not better. :-(
Actually, you asserted that Johnson was an accomplice to robbery, which is incorrect. You then used that incorrect statement to call an eyewitness account into question, and followed it up with a poor understanding of Occam's Razor.
Then you began making up a story by which Johnson is secretly an accomplice, but the police were too afraid of the political backlash to charge him.
So your use of the word is factually wrong.
benjipwns
Banned
Yeah, okay, but what if they had committed armed robbery.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
It will be interesting to see how the three autopsy reports agree on their interpretation of the wounds. I still wonder how often the Feds do their own autopsy when the local me does the first. Anyone have an idea on that?
Were still waiting for you to point out how this autopsy suddenly throws everything into doubt. Where had it changed anything?
AlimNassor
Banned
4 people have said it was an execution, no matter what the autopsy says or the lieing Police say I know it was an execution. 4 people would not just lie, the Police executed an innocent boy. I have no doubt, I know it in my heart. the people defending the Police are all racist, that is just further proof he was unjustly murdered.
Brown would've probably been looking for a gun to go back to kill the store owner.
DragonSworne
Banned
And this is the part where the bullshit comes in. This isn't Sherlock Holmes where you can determine everything about a crime since from the color of the nail polish a dead person has.
Of course the person who did the autopsy had isn't going to be able to construct the circunsrances of the murder since he had NO information about the case other than the body in front of him. That means no eye witness reports, no gun, no casings, no clothes, no alibi from the cop, nothing but Mr. Browns dead body to examine.
With the little information he had, his report perfectly matches eye witness accounts. It strengthens them, not weakens them. Since we, the public, know both the eye wiyness reports and the autopsy report results it's easy to construct the how Mr. Brown died, and that is with his hands up in the air in a surrender position gunned down from a distance.
There is no reason to gun someone down who is in a position like that.
And just for clarity's sake, here's the relevant statute:
Johnson took an affirmative step to prevent the commission of the offense by placing the cigarillos back on the counter.
Dude Abides
Banned
The quote from the article:
First he is an ex-cop. He isn't serving on any force at this time. So he isn't out working the streets. Just to be accurate.
It's an analogy. So comparisons are kind of the nature of the tool. But the comparison is limited in scope. If people intentionally disregard the limited scope of the analogy, then it's no longer an analogy.
I understand why some would interpret it that way, but I am not 100% it's fair to do so.
So whatever is reported in the autopsy is irrelevant and inconsequential, but the "fact" that everyone defending the police is racist is proof that Brown was unjustly murdered?
That's some thinking.
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