Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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Minorities Being Places sounds like a great coloring book.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Seeing the vitriol in your posts is mind boggling to me. You really believe that every single cop is an animal? You believe Ron Johnson wanted to see his own community businesses be destroyed? That he doesn't care about what's going on?

It's not his job to arrest Wilson. His only job is maintaining peace and security and I honestly don't know how he can do it at this point. He clearly doesn't want to shut down peaceful protest but when they get hijacked by the violent few it is his job to respond to that.
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Are all cops animals? You could say we are all animals with intellect. But the cops are not using their intellect. They are using mindless force. In fact, they are the ones who are treating the protestors like they are fucking animals! Okay there is looting and vadalism going on. You send a task unit to deal with the troublemakers and leave the peaceful protestors alone. You don't use left over MILITARY EQUIPMENT from Iraq and treat an entire crowd of PEACEFUL PROTESTORS and media personnel like they are criminals with rubber bulllets, tear gas, snipers aimed at them, guns pointed to their face from pretty much day one. Are reporters looting and vandalizing? Do they deserve to be detained and harrassed? Told they can't do their jobs? What does that have to do with looting and vandalism? What does occupying the protests as if the peaceful protestors are military insurgents have to do with the looting and vandalizing? From day one they treated the entire peaceful group of protestors like they are the criminals. The police are the ones who chose to engage the crowd with military like force FROM DAY ONE!. If you want to deal with the criminals, deal with the criminals! You don't deal with criminals by treating an entire crowd of peaceful protestors and media personel like they are the enemy. Hey you know there is looting and vandalism going on. We should send a unit for the troublemakers who are doing those things and leave the peaceful protestors alone. NO! I have a better idea, we should use the toys that we got from the military and respond by occupying the protests and making all of the peaceful protestors pay for the behavior of mindless idiots. That is a great idea in a tense situation. We should add oil to the fire, that should put it out. Bullshit. The tape is all there. I have seen the footage online and on live tv. Is this really how you fucking stabilize a situation?
 
AniHawk said:
i don't think you quite understand institutionalized racism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutionalized_racism#United_States

it's something you grow up with. hell, i can read all about it all i want, but i'll never fully understand it because i never grew up with it.
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Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.

But, i'm tired...

HP_Wuvcraft said:
He's seen them on TV.

So of course they do.
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Good one, that's a zinger.
 
vagabondarts said:
Exactly. Thank you.

Getting fed up with the "Us vs Them" mindset that exists on both sides right now in Ferguson and in groups and cliques and political parties and movements all across this country which serve only one purpose; to divide us.

It's like all rational thought and objectivism flies out the window as long as your team wins. It's absolutely destructive.
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Well, it's a very prevalent thing as destructive as it is. This post kinda reminds me of people that say, "talking about racism keeps it alive."

J-Rzez said:
Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.

But, i'm tired...



Good one, that's a zinger.
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What are you even trying to say?
 
Evil_Silver said:
Are all cops animals? You could say we are all animals with intellect. But the cops are not using their intellect. They are using mindless force. In fact, they are the ones who are treating the protestors like they are fucking animals! Okay there is looting and vadalism going on. You send a task unit to deal with the troublemakers and leave the peaceful protestors alone. You don't use left over MILITARY EQUIPMENT from Iraq and treat an entire crowd of PEACEFUL PROTESTORS and media personnel like they are criminals with rubber bulllets, tear gas, snipers aimed at them, guns pointed to their face from pretty much day one. Are reporters looting and vandalizing? Do they deserve to be detained and harrassed? Told they can't do their jobs? What does that have to do with looting and vandalism? What does occupying the protests as if the peaceful protestors are military insurgents have to do with the looting and vandalizing? From day one they treated the entire peaceful group of protestors like they are the criminals. The police are the ones who chose to engage the crowd with military like force FROM DAY ONE!. If you want to deal with the criminals, deal with the criminals! You don't deal with criminals by treating an entire crowd of peaceful protestors and media personel like they are the enemy. Hey you know there is looting and vandalism going on. We should send a unit for the troublemakers who are doing those things and leave the peaceful protestors alone. NO! I have a better idea, we should use the toys that we got from the military and respond by occupying the protests and making all of the peaceful protestors pay for the behavior of mindless idiots. That is a great idea in a tense situation. We should add oil to the fire, that should put it out. Bullshit. The tape is all there. I have seen the footage online and on live tv. Is this really how you fucking stabilize a situation?
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Someone has to tell us if logistically it's possible to deal with the looters and other malicious actors if they use the crowds to hide in. If we could settle if it's possible to separate the two that would help figure out a lot.

Is it possible I honestly don't know. What happens if a guy is smack dab in the middle of a crowd brandishing a weapon or throwing stuff. How can he be apprehended without the crowd being broken up.
 
Evil_Silver said:
Are all cops animals? You could say we are all animals with intellect. But the cops are not using their intellect. They are using mindless force. In fact, they are the ones who are treating the protestors like they are fucking animals! Okay there is looting and vadalism going on. You send a task unit to deal with the troublemakers and leave the peaceful protestors alone. You don't use left over MILITARY EQUIPMENT from Iraq and treat an entire crowd of PEACEFUL PROTESTORS and media personnel like they are criminals with rubber bulllets, tear gas, snipers aimed at them, guns pointed to their face from pretty much day one. Are reporters looting and vandalizing? Do they deserve to be detained and harrassed? Told they can't do their jobs? What does that have to do with looting and vandalism? What does occupying the protests as if the peaceful protestors are military insurgents have to do with the looting and vandalizing? From day one they treated the entire peaceful group of protestors like they are the criminals. The police are the ones who chose to engage the crowd with military like force FROM DAY ONE!. If you want to deal with the criminals, deal with the criminals! You don't deal with criminals by treating an entire crowd of peaceful protestors and media personel like they are the enemy. Hey you know there is looting and vandalism going on. We should send a unit for the troublemakers who are doing those things and leave the peaceful protestors alone. NO! I have a better idea, we should use the toys that we got from the military and respond by occupying the protests and making all of the peaceful protestors pay for the behavior of mindless idiots. That is a great idea in a tense situation. We should add oil to the fire, that should put it out. Bullshit. The tape is all there. I have seen the footage online and on live tv. Is this really how you fucking stabilize a situation?
Click to expand...

The police are using the same tactics as the military in the middle east. Killing terrorists come with a price and that unfortunately involves civilian casualties.
 
J-Rzez said:
Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.

But, i'm tired...



Good one, that's a zinger.
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Dude. Stop. Just stop.
 
Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.
Click to expand...

we are very close to #notallcops territory here... :/
 
J-Rzez said:
Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.

But, i'm tired...
Click to expand...

I'd be tired too if I did logic cartwheels and mental tumbles all day.
 
Gustav said:
Is this sarcasm?
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The gentleman on the left has more personal body armor and weaponry than I did while invading Iraq. pic.twitter.com/5u6TxyIbkk
— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) August 14, 2014

@PaulSzoldra LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device), the last place I saw one of those was at the Iraqi detention facility.
— James Skylar Gerrond (@JimmySky) August 14, 2014

A lot of vets, me included, would go to Ferguson and gladly teach some classes on crowd control and patrolling You are fucking it up.
— Broken Handmic (@13F2PL7) August 14, 2014

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168233-military-vets-weigh-militarization-ferguson-police-force/

The police literally are inheriting gear from the Iraq War. Is it that unbelievable that they also receive more aggressive training too? It's been a pretty common sentiment over the last week. It's a big change in tactics compared to the early 90s.

You should look into it. It's been a thing since before Ferguson.
 
Shinta said:
The gentleman on the left has more personal body armor and weaponry than I did while invading Iraq. pic.twitter.com/5u6TxyIbkk
— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) August 14, 2014

@PaulSzoldra LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device), the last place I saw one of those was at the Iraqi detention facility.
— James Skylar Gerrond (@JimmySky) August 14, 2014

A lot of vets, me included, would go to Ferguson and gladly teach some classes on crowd control and patrolling You are fucking it up.
— Broken Handmic (@13F2PL7) August 14, 2014

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168233-military-vets-weigh-militarization-ferguson-police-force/

The police literally are inheriting gear from the Iraq War. Is it that unbelievable that they also receive more aggressive training too? It's been a pretty common sentiment over the last week. It's a big change in tactics compared to the early 90s.
Click to expand...

I understand the first part, don't understand the "fighting terrorists comes with a price" bit.
 
Gustav said:
I understand the first part, don't understand the "fighting terrorists comes with a price" bit.
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I think he just means that declaring a decade long war on terror militarizes more than just our military. The whole country has slipped into that mindset.
 
Shinta said:
The gentleman on the left has more personal body armor and weaponry than I did while invading Iraq. pic.twitter.com/5u6TxyIbkk
— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) August 14, 2014

@PaulSzoldra LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device), the last place I saw one of those was at the Iraqi detention facility.
— James Skylar Gerrond (@JimmySky) August 14, 2014

A lot of vets, me included, would go to Ferguson and gladly teach some classes on crowd control and patrolling You are fucking it up.
— Broken Handmic (@13F2PL7) August 14, 2014

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168233-military-vets-weigh-militarization-ferguson-police-force/

The police literally are inheriting gear from the Iraq War. Is it that unbelievable that they also receive more aggressive training too? It's been a pretty common sentiment over the last week. It's a big change in tactics compared to the early 90s.

You should look into it. It's been a thing since before Ferguson.
Click to expand...

That stuff is still terrifying to me. there was another veteran who said they they leveled their weapons multiple times. The police for do not have proper training to use this equipment.
 
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Some more here:

http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2014/08/images-that-define-fergusons-protests-hands-up-dont-shoot/
 
Nanashrew said:
That stuff is still terrifying to me. there was another veteran who said they they leveled their weapons multiple times. The police for do not have proper training to use this equipment.
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It's not "proper" training. Fully agree. But it's training to use military equipment literally from Iraq (they get the old equipment and paint it black), and to be as aggressive as they can be. It's a shock and awe mentality that wasn't there before.

We have watched our rights slip for a decade because it was supposedly to help us catch the terrorists. Now we see the truth is that the rights are just gone, and that stands for anyone they decide is inconvenient.
 
J-Rzez said:
Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.
Click to expand...

Dude.

One of your examples for racism being over was black people are on television.

Shut the fuck up for your own good.

And before I type, anything else that may be against forum rules, I'm going to bed.

Dear Christ.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Dude.

One of your examples for racism being over was black people are on television.

Shut the fuck up for your own good.

And before I type, anything else that may be against forum rules, I'm going to bed.

Dear Christ.
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To be fair to him....US TV is better than what we have here, I mean the only time you see minority people on TV here is either in some film where they need unruly thugs or....well US tv shows :/
 
Shinta said:
It's not "proper" training. Fully agree. But it's training to use military equipment literally from Iraq (they get the old equipment and paint it black), and to be as aggressive as they can be. It's a shock and awe mentality that wasn't there before.

We have watched our rights slip for a decade because it was supposedly to help us catch the terrorists. Now we see the truth is that the rights are just gone, and that stands for anyone they decide is inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It makes me think of that George Carlin video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4
 
Mael said:
To be fair to him....US TV is better than what we have here, I mean the only time you see minority people on TV here is either in some film where they need unruly thugsor....well US tv shows :/
Click to expand...

It's not that different here, believe me. :(

'The Sopranos' was one of the worst when it came to the depiction of Black people.
 
Indicate said:
opportunists (terrorists) in the mix with legitimate protesters (civilians)
Click to expand...

Shinta said:
It's not "proper" training. Fully agree. But it's training to use military equipment literally from Iraq (they get the old equipment and paint it black), and to be as aggressive as they can be. It's a shock and awe mentality that wasn't there before.

We have watched our rights slip for a decade because it was supposedly to help us catch the terrorists. Now we see the truth is that the rights are just gone, and that stands for anyone they decide is inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Furgeson is a foreshadowing of what's to come if America stays on it's current path.
 
J-Rzez said:
Right, that can apply loosely to other things such as medical conditions and the sort as well for example, just to different degrees naturally. You don't know how something impacts someone unless you experience it yourself, and even then your experience can impact yourself variably. Like my back conditions, or like how it would bother me with all the "fck da police" and "all cops are scum" talk on here disregarding those who risked their lives, did what they were to do and serve and protect.

But, i'm tired...
Click to expand...

i think i get where you're coming from - you're in the police force, so you hate seeing everyone in the police force designated as racist or disrespectful. it's a blanket statement that sweeps up you and your friends who you know are good people. that's gotta be frustrating when you see yourself sucked into that vortex.

i also understand the sentiment that everyone can be scumbags. i think it's fairly evident that being a shithead knows no bounds.

again, i don't fully understand everything, but i feel people aren't actually saying, 'fuck all police officers - all police officers are scum, every last one of them, especially you and your buddies' - people are saying, 'fuck the society that allows injustice to happen, and fuck those who propagate injustice, especially those in position of power.' because the truth of the matter is, there's a lot of racial profiling going on in america and a lot of injustice towards nonwhites. an unarmed teenager was shot excessively and murdered by a police officer who should have been serving and protecting the public. in response to a community that organized peacefully, demanding answers and justice, the police force the killer belonged to shot tear gas and fired rubber bullets. i'm sure it's happened before, but i cannot remember a time when an unarmed white kid was shot excessively and murdered in broad daylight by a police officer. i sure as hell doubt that we've seen this level of brutality leveled against mostly white protesters since maybe the days of unionization.

so don't get offended. you're in a position of power. just try and understand where people are coming from.
 
AniHawk said:
i think i get where you're coming from - you're in the police force, so you hate seeing everyone in the police force designated as racist or disrespectful. it's a blanket statement that sweeps up you and your friends who you know are good people. that's gotta be frustrating when you see yourself sucked into that vortex.
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Well at least they have something in common with black people...
 
AniHawk said:
again, i don't fully understand everything, but i feel people aren't actually saying, 'fuck all police officers - all police officers are scum, every last one of them, especially you and your buddies' - people are saying, 'fuck the society that allows injustice to happen, and fuck those who propagate injustice, especially those in position of power.' because the truth of the matter is, there's a lot of racial profiling going on in america and a lot of injustice towards nonwhites. an unarmed teenager was shot excessively and murdered by a police officer who should have been serving and protecting the public. in response to a community that organized peacefully, demanding answers and justice, the police force the killer belonged to shot tear gas and fired rubber bullets. i'm sure it's happened before, but i cannot remember a time when an unarmed white kid was shot excessively and murdered in broad daylight by a police officer. i sure as hell doubt that we've seen this level of brutality leveled against mostly white protesters since maybe the days of unionization.

so don't get offended. you're in a position of power. just try and understand where people are coming from.
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Yikes. Kent State shootings.
 
devilhawk said:
Yikes. Kent State shootings.
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argh. i knew something like that had happened. i'm a big pete and pete fan and the theme song is about that so i should have known.

Mael said:
Well at least they have something in common with black people...
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eh, it's just normal work-related stuff. like if you're an attorney or something and you do pro-bono work for the underprivileged or something and you and your buddies are all on the level, it might rub you the wrong way to hear the 'kill all the lawyers' line. or if you work for a company and someone makes a remark like, 'are they even trying?' when you and people you know have been working your ass off.

i don't really feel bad for the police to be lumped in like that. it sucks for someone to take it personally, and i know the instinct is to separate yourself from the shitheads, but the sentiment that a certain workforce is bad is fairly normal letting-off-steam behavior. doing the same with skin color is something i can't honestly understand.
 
AniHawk said:
eh, it's just normal work-related stuff. like if you're an attorney or something and you do pro-bono work for the underprivileged or something and you and your buddies are all on the level, it might rub you the wrong way to hear the 'kill all the lawyers' line. or if you work for a company and someone makes a remark like, 'are they even trying?' when you and people you know have been working your ass off.

i don't really feel bad for the police to be lumped in like that. it sucks for someone to take it personally, and i know the instinct is to separate yourself from the shitheads, but the sentiment that a certain workforce is bad is fairly normal letting-off-steam behavior. doing the same with skin color is something i can't honestly understand.
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Actually that's a good point.
 
From Reddit on the presser

Quick press conference highlights: At least two people were shot. No updates on shooting victims, both were male. Police did not deploy SWAT trucks until after violence broke out and they needed to retrieve shooting victim. There were numerous reports of shots fired, and two fires broke out. On West Florissant and Canfield, police underwent gunfire and were able to retrieve two guns. While police tried to secure shooter’s car, media rushed over to take photos. Despite shots fired at police, not a single officer returned fire tonight. Molotov cocktails were used again tonight, and rocks were thrown at police. As of 2AM, 31 people have been arrested. Asks that peaceful protesters come during daytime for their safety, though they have the right to come at night, so that police can collect the small minority of criminals who have come from as far as New York and California. Media asked to clear streets and not conflict with police action. Media also asked to not glamorize criminals. No journalists were apparently arrested tonight, though police may take some into custody in the midst of chaos due to not realizing who is a journalist or not - they are released.
 
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