Ubi - "Wii U owners don't buy AC", Watch_Dogs their last M-rated WiiU release.
- Thread starter Mushroomer25
- Start date
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Short-term thinking is the only kind that can be used. If I want a game now, I'm not going to hold off or buy a worse version just to support another console down the road. That's not short term thinking, that's idiocy - rational thinking blinded by loyalty.
The doublethink you speak of is a foolish assumption that the people saying these things are all the same people - or even that people can't change their minds. I used to dislike DLC on principle. Then I played Mass Effect 2. My tune changed.
Infernal Monkey
Member
moltonasty
Member
I see some people saying that mature 3rd party titles won't thrive on Nintendo systems until Nintendo actually makes an effort with these type of titles. The thing is, they have tried. See:
But clearly, they care about this audience. It just makes me wonder what the hell can they do going forward? I mean, I'm sure they wanted games like GTA, and probably tried to get them, but Nintendo just has the stigma of "Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games" or "Nintendo fans only buy kiddie games" so publishers don't want to put in the effort. So while Nintendo does see value with these type of titles, I don't know how they can get the mindshare for people to actually see it.
- Goldeneye,
- Perfect Dark,
- Geist,
- Eternal Darkness,
- Zangeki No Reginleiv (japan only),
- Ninja Gaiden 3:Razor's Edge
- Devil's Third
- Bayonetta 2
- exclusive Fatal Frame titles,
- Disaster (Japan and EU only),
- Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes,
and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
But clearly, they care about this audience. It just makes me wonder what the hell can they do going forward? I mean, I'm sure they wanted games like GTA, and probably tried to get them, but Nintendo just has the stigma of "Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games" or "Nintendo fans only buy kiddie games" so publishers don't want to put in the effort. So while Nintendo does see value with these type of titles, I don't know how they can get the mindshare for people to actually see it.
I'm pretty pro-Wii U, but let's not go off the deep end here. Zombi U was a great exclusive that really highlighted the GamePad's potential and the two AC games are actually pretty solid for the hardware they're on. They made a mistake in delaying Rayman Legends but overall their ports and games designed for the system were among the best efforts any third party made for Wii U.
The truth is that Wii U just isn't selling that well and people aren't buying that many 3rd party games for the console. Meanwhile PS4's selling gangbusters and that audience buys up the AC series in droves. That's just a statement of fact. It's all business and while I'm disappointed that I'll never see Zombi U 2 (please fund this Nintendo) I understand that its because other games failed on Wii U.
I'm pretty sure we disproved this argument a year ago.
ZombiU was never criticized for its bugs, it was criticized because a lot of reviewers forgot what a survival horror game was supposed to play like.
BTW BF4 has an 85, ZombiU a 77.
A lot of people say ZombiU was unfairly trashed, but I disagree. That game was released in an unfinished state and had several game-breaking bugs. I think they deserved what they got in the reviews. People trash BF4 and other games that are released with major bugs, but ZombiU was as bad as any of them.
megabytecr
Member
I don´t think the people that buy Nintendo platforms are the problem.
With the Wii and Wii U, Nintendo had and has a platform weaker than the other ones. With the Wii motion controls was a revolution, so 3rd party support created exclusives that attracted both casuals and enthusiasts. The Wii U´s attraction is the gamepad, and as much as I love it, it hasn´t set the world on fire, it is something you have to experience. So 3rd parties are stuck with less capable hardware. To make it even worse, 3rd parties have sent some games to die by releasing late, without DLC and/or with bad performance. If optimized Wii U should run most of these 3rd party games with ease locked at 30fps, but who can blame them, they thought the effort was not worth it.
It is a shame, I enjoyed AC3 on the Wii U, getting a feature as simple as the map on the gamepad was great for me. I am still thinking of getting AC4 BF on the Wii U even if I have a PS4, but the bad performance is swaying me off. I have ZombiU, Rayman, Splinter Cell and AC3.
Most enthusiast gamers have multiple systems so for these types of games they are choosing the platform with the best performance and all the DLC.
I think even for Nintendo the Wii U is a bridge console, they are preparing for a single ecosystem which could have multiple levels of hardware, so maybe 2 consoles and 2 handhelds sharing most of the library. The beefier hardware for 3rd party support and it can run Nintendo games, the lesser hardware for impulse buyers like families with kids.
With the Wii and Wii U, Nintendo had and has a platform weaker than the other ones. With the Wii motion controls was a revolution, so 3rd party support created exclusives that attracted both casuals and enthusiasts. The Wii U´s attraction is the gamepad, and as much as I love it, it hasn´t set the world on fire, it is something you have to experience. So 3rd parties are stuck with less capable hardware. To make it even worse, 3rd parties have sent some games to die by releasing late, without DLC and/or with bad performance. If optimized Wii U should run most of these 3rd party games with ease locked at 30fps, but who can blame them, they thought the effort was not worth it.
It is a shame, I enjoyed AC3 on the Wii U, getting a feature as simple as the map on the gamepad was great for me. I am still thinking of getting AC4 BF on the Wii U even if I have a PS4, but the bad performance is swaying me off. I have ZombiU, Rayman, Splinter Cell and AC3.
Most enthusiast gamers have multiple systems so for these types of games they are choosing the platform with the best performance and all the DLC.
I think even for Nintendo the Wii U is a bridge console, they are preparing for a single ecosystem which could have multiple levels of hardware, so maybe 2 consoles and 2 handhelds sharing most of the library. The beefier hardware for 3rd party support and it can run Nintendo games, the lesser hardware for impulse buyers like families with kids.
Haunted
Member
ZombiU was a great game, real shame it bombed. 
That's just incorrect. Absolutely incomparable.
It honestly seems like they gave it a fair try. I really think that most people who own Nintendo consoles are either not interested in those type of games (due to taste or age of the user) or that they are multi console owners and simply buy that type of game on another platform.
It is too bad for the people who don't fall into the groups listed above but I really feel like Ubisoft gave it a harder try than anyone else did.
It is too bad for the people who don't fall into the groups listed above but I really feel like Ubisoft gave it a harder try than anyone else did.
Shmuely Bully
Member
Most of the games you mention date back to the GCN or even were released/started development on the N64 when third-party stuff sold better on their platforms. The lack of substantial support in these areas for the last decade or so (it really started with the DS IMO) hasn't been missed by me or others and tells me that they don't care currently.
Nobody is questioning the idea that they cared at one time. The issue is that time was when Minoru Arakawa was still in charge at NoA.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Rayman Legends is the only retail game that ubisoft has released this gen(U/bone/ps4) that I've even been remotely interested in, so I can kind of understand this.
The last mature(ish) games they made that truly appealed to me were sands of time and beyond good and evil. That's a long time ago now.
The last mature(ish) games they made that truly appealed to me were sands of time and beyond good and evil. That's a long time ago now.
Easy fix...? Buying another console to get a slightly better version of a multiplatform game is an easy fix? For an enthusiast gamer with multiple consoles, maybe. The average joe will just get the version for the console he already has and won't give a damn if it doesn't look as good as another version. CoD kept selling like crazy on PS3 even if it was the worst version. I'm not saying you're "bad" for getting the best version, that's exactly what I do, but you can't expect everyone to do the same. If people are interested in your game, they'll bite the bullet and get it. I don't believe there's a big amount of WiiU users that want to play AC games but won't get them because they're not good enough. They simply couldn't care less.
Fortunately in my playthrough I didn't encounter any of them. And the situation is very different compared to BF4, when people say BF4 was unplayable, it was literally unplayable. Single player data kept deleting itself and you could not get into a game of conquest until a couple of weeks later.
moltonasty
Member
Sure, most, but not all. They have still published M rated titles as recently as on their current gen system. I just wonder what they'll do going forward, because I have a hard time believing that they'll just concede that entire section of the market.
I don't remember any big 3rd party sellers on the N64. IIRC, the only games that sold well on N64, were first party and second party games like Rare's stuff.
And Arakawa might have cared, but the big boss Yamauchi sure didn't. When the devs and gamers alike began deserting Nintendo in droves for the then new Playstation platform, Yamauchi lashed out and insulted them both rather than try to repair the damage.
EdwardTeach
Member
This is a real shame, I played assassins Creed 3 on the u, and although the visual quality was below what I have been used to on pc, the gamepad added so much to the game, that I would say it gave the best gameplay experience.
Ubi (and other devs) have to take some blame for this though. Ac4 reportedly ran poorly on the u (worse than ps360), and it was announced fairly swiftly that it wouldn't get dlc support. Similarly releasing watch dogs months after the other platforms is really going to kill sales of the u version.
Ubi (and other devs) have to take some blame for this though. Ac4 reportedly ran poorly on the u (worse than ps360), and it was announced fairly swiftly that it wouldn't get dlc support. Similarly releasing watch dogs months after the other platforms is really going to kill sales of the u version.
You think they should keep taking a loss on bomb after bomb then?
AlphaTwo00
Member
I gotta say, I want to buy multiplats on Wii U if they don't run like shit. AC3 and AC4 were a chuggy mess compared to both the 360 and PS3 version, so why would I buy it there?
Revolutionary
Member
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
The money isn't there for WiiU for 3rd parties. At least not on the same plateau as, say, the Wii.
The writing's have been on the wall. Nintendo is going to start getting lapped by the other 2 consoles. And soon.
I find strange that nobody has talked about Ghost Recon Online for Wii U. It was also "on hold" according to Ubisoft, because they wanted to focus their efforts on the PC version, and was never released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNHb2iFsTCA
They might be right, Wii U sales are poor, but if they release titles without DLC, higher prices and months later than in the other platforms, it's normal that people will tend to buy them on another platforms. Only users who are Wii U-only would by those games (like me, I have ACIII, ACIV, Just Dance 4, Zombi U and Rayman Legends and depending on the price, I plan to get Watchdogs).
Right now I'm playing ACIII and I don't find that it is a bad port. I haven't had any frame drop issue and it looks good graphically, but it is a game that was released later than in the rest of platforms. I still have to try ACIV. Zombi U was a great experience in my opinion. It is a rushed released but despite of that, it's a very good game with a great atmosphere and a remarkable ambience with scary sound effects. I would have loved to play Unity on the Wii U (even if that would have supposed to downgrade it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNHb2iFsTCA
They might be right, Wii U sales are poor, but if they release titles without DLC, higher prices and months later than in the other platforms, it's normal that people will tend to buy them on another platforms. Only users who are Wii U-only would by those games (like me, I have ACIII, ACIV, Just Dance 4, Zombi U and Rayman Legends and depending on the price, I plan to get Watchdogs).
Right now I'm playing ACIII and I don't find that it is a bad port. I haven't had any frame drop issue and it looks good graphically, but it is a game that was released later than in the rest of platforms. I still have to try ACIV. Zombi U was a great experience in my opinion. It is a rushed released but despite of that, it's a very good game with a great atmosphere and a remarkable ambience with scary sound effects. I would have loved to play Unity on the Wii U (even if that would have supposed to downgrade it)
I played AC3 on the Wii U and it wasn't all that bad. If I remember right didn't the PS3 version have alot more framerate hiccups. The Wii U version did have a problem with DOF settings during cutscenes where I characters looks all fine, but the backgrounds were blurry as hell. Sad about this news though, I really enjoyed ZombiU alot during launch. Was one of the few games outside of Nintendo Land that made good usage of the Gamepad, the Radar mode was so awesome, and even while using it I still got caught out by certain zombies! Such a tense and fun game, just needed alot more variety in the melee department.
Wii U has a larger western install base than Vita at this point. And that nebulous Vita attach rate figure is relatively meaningless without knowing what it includes (F2P? PSN+? PSP? Minis? PS1 Classics?).
And it's not getting more support from major western publishers, that's the point. Why is EA the odd man out?
CosmicQueso
Member
I know others are pointing out some of your other points, but this one got me.
Red Steel 2 and a Rabbids game were what Wii owners were missing before they'd decide to get a Wii U?
Red Steel 2 and Rabbids.
They did a Red Steel 2, but no one bought it. A sequel hardly seemed a demand from the market.
And Rabbids.
It was on the Wii U.
megabytecr
Member
AC3 plays OK, AC4 is the one that has framerate issues. Splinter Cell plays great and is a great game, Rayman plays great too, 1080p60. ZombiU also runs great.
Being so close to PS360 helped but also is killing the WiiU. So many platforms to program for, PC, XB1, PS4, PS3 and X360, Wii U requires some effort, it is a shame that 3rd parties did not created an optimized engine or code for Wii U, later ports even with poor sales would have been profitable, they would all share and benefit from the major effort at the start.
Because practically nothing sells on the console. Just Dance and Skylanders had a big following on Wii, that's why they do OK on Wii U. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Wii versions still sell better than Wii U versions. So he should just tell it like it is...Wii U isn't a viable platform for AAA development. Simple. Even Nintendo's heavy hitters barely do anything on the console. DKCR sold over 5 million on Wii. DKCTF will barely touch 1 million units LTD.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Agreed on all the latter, which is why I have all of those.
Randolph Freelander
Member
This outcome is all too common with Wii U and will only continue. The Wii U is a total retail dud, third parties can't waste their time and money on anything but total cash grabs, of which there aren't many.
I wonder if Nintendo would be interested in funding ZombiU 2 the same way they did with Bayonetta 2..? It would be a different situation because Platinum Games are an indie developer and Ubisoft Montpelier are a third party developer but they should be able to do it.
ZombiU was a system seller and Ubisoft Montpelier already started work on the sequel.
ZombiU was a system seller and Ubisoft Montpelier already started work on the sequel.
It's kind of a shame their games all tanked on the system, but there's not really a huge userbase to begin with, so selling more than a couple hundred thousand copies of anything at best is what I'd assume could've ever happened. There's only one franchise capable of Mario Kart-like sales.
For some reason, I'd have loved to get an HD remaster of Red Steel 2.
For some reason, I'd have loved to get an HD remaster of Red Steel 2.
theechrisfox
Member
Wii U owners have plenty of way better games to play than Ass Creed anyway.
Or, the console is a major bust and software sales across the board are simply awful.
EdwardTeach
Member
Given when it was released, I would imagine most wii u owners that would be interested in playing assassins Creed will by that time already gave owned a console or pc capable of playing assassins Creed. Therefore comparative performance would have come into the purchase decision for many.
PhoenixDawn
Member
Well at least they've outright said it ahead of time instead of holding off blaming the WIi U owners until Watch_Dogs gets released at full price near Smash's Wii U release and bombs as a result of that + the delay. Here's hoping the Wii U version turns out well as I'm still interested in getting it, but it's been handled pretty poorly by Ubisoft especially after the Rayman delay.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
First party titles struggle to reach 300k and so many people are saying third party sales suck because no DLC... I'm not sure that's the right way to look at it.
As if 1. DLC content was ever a broad sales driver for software and 2. The demographic of the system even really care that much
Though plainly speaking, when the system launched Nintendo didn't even have a clear path to purchase for DLC on the eShop. They added it in later and even now it's kind of difficult to find and the merchandising isn't consistent since the eShop changes frequently. Just wasn't a priority for them
As if 1. DLC content was ever a broad sales driver for software and 2. The demographic of the system even really care that much
Though plainly speaking, when the system launched Nintendo didn't even have a clear path to purchase for DLC on the eShop. They added it in later and even now it's kind of difficult to find and the merchandising isn't consistent since the eShop changes frequently. Just wasn't a priority for them
captmcblack
Member
Probably the one time in modern history that any third party actually tried to plant a flag for market-relevant, current paradigm mature content to thrive on Nintendo consoles was Capcom with Resident Evil in the GameCube era...and even that was half-hearted support. They couldn't wait to find a way to port RE4 to everything else under the Sun - and to get to that point, they had to test the waters with REmake.
I can't think of another company that actually tried to release market-relevant, current paradigm mature software on a post-N64 Nintendo that was supported with the same strength of features/marketing as they would be on a more industry-standard platform. I realize that could never happen unless and until Nintendo was literally the only game in town...and even then, these companies would ask that Nintendo foot the bill for marketing/publishing/etc, and on top of that to also own the content so it could be ported to other devices in short order.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, they had an equal spec console with GC (actually more powerful than PS2) and only sold 22 million. That's not there problem. There problem is when the partnership with Sony fell through for the CD-Rom add on, and they stuck with carts and high licensing fees for the N64 while the PS1 came out with standard CD-Rom discs they began to lose third party support.
They also failed to snap up western exclusives, and missed the FPS wave despite the N64 having some of the first big FPS console hits with Goldeneye, Turok, Perfect Dark etc. as exclusives. If they'd continued that with the GC it might be a very different story today sales wise.
Those both added up to losing third party support AND losing interest of core gamers when the market shifted to shooters, WRPGs, sports sims etc. They lacked those genres and the mainstream gamer market became loyal to Sony and/or MS and moved on from Nintendo. They tried to reclaim it with the equal spec or better GC and failed. They tried something completely different with the Wii and had a huge sales success. But core gamers were still mostly playing their shooters, sports games etc on 360 or PS3, while maybe having a Wii a second console for Wii Sports etc., and that Wii crowd didn't stick around for Wii U.
So now they're back where they were after the GC failure pretty much. Mostly irrelevant sales wise in the core/mainstream gamer market with no real chance of recapturing that segment due to those gamers being loyal to Sony/MS and inability to get exclusives in the genres that sell consoles to that group. So they need to find a way to broaden the market like they did with the Wii, or just make enough profit from their niche of diehard fans and kids/families.
I don't think that represents the picture well enough.
It's a target demographics issue that can't be solved by selling the most hardware.
If you're talking about exclusives then yeah there's nothing apart from like Madworld and some light gun games for the Wii. There were plenty of mature multiplats that hit Gamecube though.
Sure, it's not the whole picture, but it's most of it. If the console was even selling as well as the Gamecube you wouldn't have seen third party pull out as fast as they did. Of course, target demographic is an issue, especially since these franchises never released on Wii. However when your old console (Wii) that's been dead for three years is selling more Skylanders and Just Dance than your new console that's nearly 2 years old, obviously it's a fundamental problem with the console itself.
DeuceGamer
Member
As someone who enjoys Nintendo games I agree, but I would say that's not the point. To the average Joe the AC/COD/Madden type games are very important when looking to buy a console. If Nintendo could get the 3rd Party games (on par performance wise) with their amazing 1st party titles then they would be in a much better situation with software.
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