Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds
- Thread starter jordan0386
- Start date
- Status
I didn't say that either. In this case it very well might not have been able to be avoided. I'm sure we'll find out when more information is released. I'll assume it wasn't because a man died, until it's proven otherwise anyway. Is that really any worse than those that assume it was justified right now before all of the facts?
Even after a shot to the heart, people (white or black) can cover quite a bit of distance. It is not an instant drop to the ground.
ab.aeterno
Member
Since the answer will probably be no, let's go ahead and see what point underpins that question.
theignoramus
Member
No, he rolled up to two black youths and told them to get the fuck off the street, then instigated a violent confrontation when they talked back.
What a service to the community.
Corronchilejano
Member
Running against a cop with a knife in your hand is pretty much a suicide attempt.
Oh, so we should be grateful Office Wilson performed this service and not question the legality or morality because it was for the community?
No need to answer that.
Thank you.
I am still not seeing in that article where they said the shot that entered at his eyebrow was the last shot. The shot that killed him, which could be different than the last shot, entered at the top of his head. I believe it came out of his right eye so maybe that is where the confusion is.
I still haven't seen a source that say the last shot was the shot that entered the eye and then exited and entered back around his colar bone. If someone has a source that states that please link me
.EDIT: To clarify the NY times article I was linked to mentioned that the apex of the skull shot was the last shot.
Your straw man tactics are getting old.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I doubt it. Didn't Brown rob a store and rough up the clerk?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I actually thought of the taser option but if you're going to be all kooky and walk towards cops with a deadly weapon, that's on you.
Sorry, our cops are only trained to kill people. And occasionally wave cars on during road work.
ab.aeterno
Member
Except for where the police have already admitted that it had no relation to why he was stopped. But good try though.
theignoramus
Member
So you're ignorant about the basic facts of the case. The officer that shot Brown didnt stop him for shoplifting.
FreddieQuell
Member
Maybe you should learn at least one thing about this case before coming in here to post.
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loca...ef-officer-didnt-know-about-robbery/14124259/
And a robbery doesn't justify being gunned down in the street. Prolly should stop posting.
soundahfekz
Member
Did you even take time to read any of the thread? AT ALL?
EatinOlives
Member
Hahahaha
There it is, guys. This is exactly why the Ferguson PD released the footage of the robbery. For people to bring it up exactly the way Garopa has brought it up.
Mission accomplished for Ferguson PD. This misdirection is going swimmingly.
Byakuya769
Member
Knocked several eyes out, I hear.
There is a certain type of person that only gets news from certain types of websites.
This case is a very good way to figure out who those people are.
It doesn't matter. His point is already solid in his head, he will go for ye-ole mindset du negro of anger and violence. Clearly after his high of a robbery of cigarellos and shoving a store clerk out of the way, he had the taste for anarchy right there and then. He decided to attack an officer and try to steal his weapon. This was a crime spree that Wilson stopped. What if Brown had the gun? He could have killed YOUR CHILDREN by then...
WATCHOUT
BEHIND YOu!!!!!
You aren't waiting for anything. You're going on about how people with knives aren't all killed anywhere else. Well, they aren't all killed here either, and not all of them live everywhere else, so any point you're trying to make regarding this specific incident isn't valid.
Your misuse of the term strawman is amusing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Good grief, it's indicative of something is all I'm saying.
Predictably, you're still confused. Your'e completely misconstruing people's arguments to build your own narrative, that's not debatable.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Hmm... there's a conversation worth having about exploring non-lethal methods of subduing suspects and assailants. However, I do think it's worth not going overboard in our criticism of the police. The facet of the Brown case that made this into the story that it is involved a combination of factors: A.) Brown was unarmed, B.) Eyewitness accounts describing him as having surrendered, and C.) Overzealous tactics employed by police officers against protesters.
At this point, given current training, I would really like to encourage that we not jump to conclusions before criticizing their handling of a knife-wielding victim. Mind you, I wasn't there. It's perhaps quite possible that they could have subdued him without firing guns. As someone who is not a big fan of guns to begin with, I'm all for having a conversation about how necessary it is for anyone to carry around a firearm in public. But given the current training of police officers, I really don't know if I'm comfortable condemning them for perceiving someone wielding a knife as a threat a reacting with deadly force.
At this point, given current training, I would really like to encourage that we not jump to conclusions before criticizing their handling of a knife-wielding victim. Mind you, I wasn't there. It's perhaps quite possible that they could have subdued him without firing guns. As someone who is not a big fan of guns to begin with, I'm all for having a conversation about how necessary it is for anyone to carry around a firearm in public. But given the current training of police officers, I really don't know if I'm comfortable condemning them for perceiving someone wielding a knife as a threat a reacting with deadly force.
soundahfekz
Member
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about
Evil_Silver
Banned
Something bad might happen tonight. Something real bad. I really hope it doesn't.
The only thing that would possibly make it relevant would be if Brown thought the cop knew or if the cop found out about the robbery after the initial contact (what the phone in caller who claims to know Wilson said).
Nothing confirmed.
Its indicative of having a weapon? He was unarmed.
Indicative of what? You would shove a person, but does that immediately mean that you're going to attaack an armed officer, in an area where the police have a history of abusing the black population.
You are really infering that this 17/18 year old, had a death wish that day -- to attack a police officer. After stealing:
To smoke some pot and go to his moms house.
This is really what you think this negro is capable of? That this is the most likely chain of events. Shoving a clerk out of the way -- after a clerk was blocking him leaving a store -- NOT killing a clerk-- walking home. That escalates to a 50/50 chance of taking an armed police officer/department on, in the same day.
This is what you're sticking with..?
Thank you for being level headed in discussion. I understand what you're saying, and I'm glad you understand what I'm saying well. I understand where people are coming from, I just wish people would understand where LEOs come from as well. I can't armchair coach what's happening there, i'm not there, thankfully. If they are just unloading for no reason, that's bad. But when I see videos of people breaching no-zones, throwing frozen bottles (which can cause serious injury or death), full glass bottles, stones, and then there's the whole gunfire thing, of course the police are going to raise their level.
I just wish things would calm down and let everything get sorted out. If local was making a mess, that was on them, but recently the state was activated, a different force, and that's when we're seeing people doing this.
But lets just wait and see how things pan out here. I wish all sides can rest and let things run their course. I tend to avoid certain threads or replying to them, especially here on GAF, and sometimes I try to explain to people protocols that are in place along with the other perspective. But things like below here, this has to stop honestly. It makes those LEOs who are good who risk their lives and act fairly get down and even question why they do what they do for such little reward and thanks. In fact, it's coming from myself, why I left said career paths.
Since this is level headed as well I'll give an example:
In the academy I had many hours of training on this myself. I stood there with my gun holstered and then also drawn, while my instructor ran at me from a good distance. When holstered, he got to me before I could even sight him let alone fully aim. When already drawn, if I didn't fully incapacitate him with my first round or two, he got to me. Also you have to figure in drugs, adrenaline, mindset, etc, on top of all that. Not everyone can be a crack shot like the movies, nor do people react in real life getting shot like they do in games. I've seen many videos on this to have the point proven, and considering a 57 year old out of shape instructor managed to even get to me before I could react, it puts things really into perspective.
I understand what he tried to do perfectly well. His reasoning was invalid and so the point he was attempting to make was not made. I misconstrued nothing.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It can be somewhat relevant to show disrespect for authority and whatnot but it's really not one of the main pieces of information in determining whether the killing was justifiable.
Witness accounts will be more important though there will always be them on both sides.
Cops should have those head cameras.
End of story.
Yeah, it'll probably cost money but it'd be well worth it instead of creating war zones.
To be fair it was some asshole in the PD that leaked it to the media and they ran with it to their brainwashed viewers / readers. The PD released the video after that.
The PD has stated that the officer had no idea about the store incident therefore that should be taken as it's irrelevant to the shooting.
If I got this wrong correct away.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Ok, carry on.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Well, you should be more clear on what exactly it is you are saying, especially if you feel people here are overreacting.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Thank you.
I am still not seeing in that article where they said the shot that entered at his eyebrow was the last shot. The shot that killed him, which could be different than the last shot, entered at the top of his head. I believe it came out of his right eye so maybe that is where the confusion is.
I still haven't seen a source that say the last shot was the shot that entered the eye and then exited and entered back around his colar bone. If someone has a source that states that please link me
EDIT: To clarify the NY times article I was linked to mentioned that the apex of the skull shot was the last shot.
Above the browline was the term used in one of the press conferences to refer to the shot at the apex of his forehead. Above the browline would mean anywhere from just above the eyebrows to the top of the skull.
If you are hit in the eye, that is not above the brow line, that's below it.
This new shooting does have tangential relevance to the Brown case, though I don't think we can say the police weren't "justified" in their actions... it's disconcerting to hear the witnesses saying that the man had said 'Shoot me, kill me now'.
Like I said a few pages ago, any officer involved shooting in St. Louis County right now is going to cause tensions to rise.
ab.aeterno
Member
Can you find the word "all" in the original post? Because I sure can't. Because the person's point was pretty clearly that in other countries, their police forces are more frequently able to non-fatally resolve dangerous situations. Pottery sure they wiener speaking in absolutes, so you're tilting at a windmill.
Like, if your argument is "well it's not 100% effective there so why bother" then I have some bad news for you about efficacy rates of literally anything in the real world.
Yup armed robbery, and the clerk died actually.
OT: okay, I thought they were saying Mike Brown had a knife, figured out it was a different event. Ugh,
theignoramus
Member
Yup, they knew exactly what they were doing when they released that footage. It was very cynical, but it will be very effective at muddying the waters and swinging right wing (and probably centrist) opinion firmly and decisively in their favour.
Steve Youngblood
Member
It wasn't just "some asshole in the PD that leaked it." It was the Ferguson Chief of Police that handed out dockets to the press following a press conference where he both released the name of the officer involved in the shooting and also vaguely described Brown's involvement in a robbery.
Corronchilejano
Member
Woah what... ?
Oh I think my point is valid. As was made clear by the officer at that conference as well as by you and others in this thread, by saying using a gun against an knife wielder is always valid. You automatically assumed it was in this case already. I disagree with that sentiment and think it is not valid unless it has been proven absolutely necessary in each case. If it turns out it was, my opinion on this will change completely.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I heard the only one that died was the knife wielder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
24 total officers stabbed to death, 20 or so in the last 30 years.
I think he was being cheeky, because that poster is spouting nonsense without being familiar with the thread, yet wanting to assert some sort of opinion here.
- Status