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[SaikyoBro]

The stage selection is pretty bad but I don't think I hate it as much as others. I've been thinking the whole time that they wouldn't be able to make a new stage for every franchise on both systems so they should use various past stages to fill the gaps... but it's pretty excessive on 3DS.

But it's a little bit hard to be understanding of it when Mario, Zelda and Pokemon all got multiple stages... that makes a lot of sense when we're talking about a normal Smash game with a whole roster of new stages, but here it seems to have been at the expense of stages from other series, it's pretty embarrassing to have no new Metroid or Donkey Kong stage (seriously, even after Returns?) and for the only Kirby stage to be a gimmicky Gameboy one.

All I can say is that I really, really hope the Wii U version's is more like Melee's or Brawl's with a great focus on new stages instead of being a 50/50 mix of new and past, it'd be super disappointing if we seriously didn't see new stages for Earthbound or Yoshi or F-Zero just because they haven't had a new game in a long time.

 

[Anilusion]

How do you guys go though like a thread a week?! Amazing! I'm really hyped for this game as well, and I will pick up both versions day 1.

 

[emb]

How do you guys go though like a thread a week?! Amazing! I'm really hyped for this game as well, and I will pick up both versions day 1.

We go through threads so fast because of posts like yours!

Keep saying things with us, and the threads will go even faster.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Given that Sakurai said that Yoshi's reveal was relativley late due to changes to his moveset, it's possible (although not esecially likely, I'll admit) that this is the reason Ganondorf, or some of the other veterans, haven't been announced yet.

 

[georly]

Edgehogging seems to be very close to useless now though. I remember one of the invitation players saying they did it once.

I enjoy the kills where they go out there and get 'em, but I think the new edgehog thing + Brawl's edgesnap puts too much recovery power in the hands of whoever's coming back. We also still have multiple air dodges for some reason, so if you're able to get to them it basically turns into a 50/50 on if you can bait it out or not.

I feel like the game is negatively impacted by some of the edge changes, but I'll grant you that it might just turn out different, rather than worse. As with anything, we'll have to wait and see.

I think it's all part of broadening the appeal of the game. The longer you stay alive, the better you think you're doing, which could help you enjoy the game more. I know most people in my house are so bad that they will never play stock w/ me because it means they lose immediately and have to sit there, bored, while the rest of the fight plays out. We always play time just to make sure nobody is bored.

Increasing time you're alive doesn't fix my particular stock problem, but it sure will help people feel like they're doing better at the game.

Given that Sakurai said that Yoshi's reveal was relativley late due to changes to his moveset, it's possible (although not esecially likely, I'll admit) that this is the reason Ganondorf, or some of the other veterans, haven't been announced yet.

It wasn't his moveset that changed, but rather his whole appearance. His character model and almost all of his animations had to change to work with his more, upright stance. He still has about just as many changes as any other vet (1-2 things are noticeably different). His dash attack is now a kick, I believe. Just like link's back roll is now a flip and his up air is now in a weird pose.

 

[Azure J]

Mandatory post saying that Lucas is far and away the better of the two Mother/Earthbound characters in Smash so far and anything pointing to someone calling him a clone is misguided at best. Ness and Lucas have three specials that look the same but every nuance to Lucas' are wildly different and he possesses completely different (and better) normals. Why is he still a clone again?

Edit: Oh dammit, I'm responding to a post that is a bit older than this tab let on. =/

 

[fredrancour]

How do you guys go though like a thread a week?! Amazing! I'm really hyped for this game as well, and I will pick up both versions day 1.

Arguing in circles about a potential leak, and depressing timewaster conversation while waiting for the PotD that broke EmCeeGramr yesterday.

I would love to see the mods posting about how to deal with this thread in their mod forum.
"NOTHING IS HAPPENING AND THEY WON'T STOP POSTING."
"THEY'VE BEEN HAVING MEANINGLESS META-CONVERSATIONS FOR TEN PAGES."
"THEY ARE DISCUSSING MADE-UP RUMORS FROM 4CHAN. HOW DO PEOPLE THIS BORED SURVIVE"

 

[Cse]

If there's really no option to turn off bosses besides FD mode, I'm never playing Wily's Castle

Same here.

And if there are other stage bosses, then I hope they're kept to a minimum. I'm going to be so disappointed if otherwise amazing stages are "ruined" because of invasive stage bosses.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Just give him Snake's moveset.

Everyone can have Snakes Moveset.
Not the most ridiculous replacement I have heard.

 

[emb]

I think it's all part of broadening the appeal of the game. The longer you stay alive, the better you think you're doing, which could help you enjoy the game more. I know most people in my house are so bad that they will never play stock w/ me because it means they lose immediately and have to sit there, bored, while the rest of the fight plays out. We always play time just to make sure nobody is bored.

Increasing time you're alive doesn't fix my particular stock problem, but it sure will help people feel like they're doing better at the game.

I run into that problem too with some people. I usually just try to let them kill me (though I hate to do it, and find it kind of disrespectful... but sometimes it's what people want).

I need to start using time mode for those situations too though. I remember being baffled a while back that time was ever a default option until posters here explained it to me. Makes sense, really. That way they can keep playing. The crying still comes at the results screen though, most of the time. :\

 

[WiiRevolution1]

Re: no Duck Hunt Dog trophy:

The game has at least been a trophy before, if not the dog himself.

...the more I think about it, the more I think that poster who said that you play as the Duck is true. The dog chases you and attacks other players who gets in its way automaticaly. You yourself would not be able to attack. If the dog catches the duck, you auto KO.

Sakurai pls.

 

[emb]

Mandatory post saying that Lucas is far and away the better of the two Mother/Earthbound characters in Smash so far and anything pointing to someone calling him a clone is misguided at best. Ness and Lucas have three specials that look the same but every nuance to Lucas' are wildly different and he possesses completely different (and better) normals. Why is he still a clone again?

Edit: Oh dammit, I'm responding to a post that is a bit older than this tab let on. =/

Apparently Ness is better now. I had no idea until someone posted this in this thread a few (dozen? hundred?) pages back. I'm also really surprised to see Snake has fallen so far, and ICs so high.

 

[georly]

I run into that problem too with some people. I usually just try to let them kill me (though I hate to do it, and find it kind of disrespectful... but sometimes it's what people want).

I need to start using time mode for those situations too though. I remember being baffled a while back that time was ever a default option until posters here explained it to me. Makes sense, really. That way they can keep playing. The crying still comes at the results screen though, most of the time. :\

Yup, time is for people who are really bad and don't want to be bored! I mean, I guess some people might prefer it and still be good, but I've found that nobody actually prefers it unless they lose all of their stock really often and don't want to wait until they can play again :/

This is really helpful for little kids, honestly.

...the more I think about it, the more I think that poster who said that you play as the Duck is true. The dog chases you and attacks other players who gets in its way automaticaly. You yourself would not be able to attack. If the dog catches the duck, you auto KO.

Sakurai pls.

I'm hoping you play as neither the dog or the bird, but the 'duck hunt' itself. That is, you are the cursor! That's why it's called 'duck hunt' and not 'duck hunt dog'!

 

[Richie]

Being someone who thought the Gematsu leak was IT and was VERY happy with the unveil of Robin and Lucina, personally I'm pleased as punch if the leak turns out to be true (considering our vets ARE indeed DLC, and even then I could take Snake's departure!)

 

[Shadow Hog]

I believe their correct name is #TeamFlake.

I've always been more partial to "#TeamRake".

Maybe we can compromise at "#TeamFrakes"?

I will Shulk all the ducks.

 

[PadWarrior]

I've always been more partial to "#TeamRake".

Maybe we can compromise at "#TeamFrakes"?

LOL oh man!

 

[EatChildren]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

 

[emb]

Yup, time is for people who are really bad and don't want to be bored! I mean, I guess some people might prefer it and still be good, but I've found that nobody actually prefers it unless they lose all of their stock really often and don't want to wait until they can play again :/

This is really helpful for little kids, honestly.

I'm hoping you play as neither the dog or the bird, but the 'duck hunt' itself. That is, you are the cursor! That's why it's called 'duck hunt' and not 'duck hunt dog'!

Exactly, it's a perfect fit for kids. I usually just play on teams vs a cpu or let them go against a level 1 while I watch, but in the future I'll probably stick to time mode.

Lolll, how would playing as the cursor even work? You can shoot the duck, causing an explosion. You can miss the duck, causing a dog attack. Or you can shoot the enemy, instantly killing them. But I can't think of any attacks besides those three :x If you do play as the cursor though, one thing is for sure: we're gonna need an NES controller adapter to go with the GCN one. Real zappers mandatory to play as Duck Hunt.

 

[Kyzon]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

Or Rosalina. I agree, it seems to make no sense to cut anyone unique.

 

[Neoxon]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

Again, DLC

 

[random25]

So close...yet so far because NoA

 

[Gleethor]

I don't think it's about not getting the ICs to "work" but rather they recognized at some point that there wouldn't be enough time to include everyone, and wanted to focus on the new characters and then release the missing vets later when they're done.

 

[BassForever]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

The Pikmin are basically are just glorified items

Luma is basically just a mirror that copies exactly what Rosalina does and has no independent AI outside of slowly attempting to return to Rosalina if it gets to far away

Nana by comparison mirrors you when she's close but basically acts like an ai and will attack or move somewhat independently if you get separated. This is what makes the IC more complex and I think the reason people are speculating they may end up cut is that the 3DS version struggles to hold a solid 60fps if 4 ice climbers with ai partners plus items/pokeballs/assist trophies happens.

 

[fredrancour]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

Withheld to be added value for the wiiu version? Advertise that it has all the characters out of the box. That way, either people double-dip or settle for dlc.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Again, DLC

This makes no sense. Why would they "save" the Ice Climbers as DLC over somebody like, say, Dr. Mario? I don't think technical difficulties is a good excuse.

Withheld to be added value for the wiiu version? Advertise that it has all the characters out of the box. That way, either people double-dip or settle for dlc.

That would be extremely shady, and I hope Nintendo doesn't do this.

 

[Makai]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

Tinfoil: Sakurai watched EVO 2013 and decided tourney players needed punishment.

 

[Durden77]

I really don't know how I feel about this leak anymore. Been on the fence for a while, but let's be real, #TeamNeutral's kind of lame...

I lean more towards real than fake, but at the same time I don't believe Noboku Toda would be around if Snake isn't returning. Yes I know there are other composers there from games not repped, but I just don't see the reason for specifically being her back other than Snake coming with her.

So either it implies that Snake will be in the game from the get-go, or that composers and stuff involved even with DLC characters are still being listed, which I guess makes sense. They did work on the 3DS version, it just might be added afterwards.

 

[udivision]

I just can't see them cutting Ice Climbers for any plausible reason. The only one I can think of is technical difficulties running a two avatar character combo on limited hardware like the 3DS, hence the dismantling of other double (though not similar) characters, like Zelda/Sheik. But if that were true we shouldn't have Olimar and his entourage.

Olimar's Pikmin got cut to 3 from 6, they're models are really low poly and their AI might even be less complex than the Luma (with the secondary IC probably being the most complex.) Not saying I think IC are cut, but I don't think Olimar's existence is good enough to say they aren't.

 

[SmithnCo]

They can't put ICs in the base game because they haven't completed their beachwear alt costumes yet.

 

[emb]

This makes no sense. Why would they "save" the Ice Climbers as DLC over somebody like, say, Dr. Mario? I don't think technical difficulties is a good excuse.



That would be extremely shady, and I hope Nintendo doesn't do this.

The obvious reason: Doctor Mario takes less time to implement after Mario is already made. Even going off the previous engine, adding in a unique returning character is more work than reskinning Mario and modifiying a few move properties. At least I would expect that to be the case.

But yes, it is shady and unfortunate if it really happens. Unless the DLC characters are free DLC for 3DS, and on disc at launch for Wii U.

 

[BassForever]

I would assume if Ice Climbers are DLC it's because they needed more time to get them working at 60FPS on the 3DS when there are 4 of them with items and such. I would assume Lucas/Wolf as DLC is simply due to them being lower priority and just being cut for time and finished later, Snake is probably DLC as Konami may have wanted extra money for Nintendo to let him appear in the game again so charging him as DLC would fix that issue. Would assume Chorus Men if it's a 3 character like some people have speculated would be similar to Ice Climbers in needing more time to work consistently at 60fps.

 

[Durden77]

But yes, it is shady and unfortunate if it really happens. Unless the DLC characters are free DLC for 3DS, and on disc at launch for Wii U.

I have a feeling they would unlock for free in the 3DS version if you buy the Wii U version. If you just buy the 3DS version, well I don't know. I hope they're free, but I kind of doubt it.

 

[TomShoe]

I swear, "Added Value" is the new buzzword these days.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

This makes no sense. Why would they "save" the Ice Climbers as DLC over somebody like, say, Dr. Mario? I don't think technical difficulties is a good excuse.



That would be extremely shady, and I hope Nintendo doesn't do this.

Dr. Mario would be much easier to implement than the Ice Climbers and wouldn't make as good of a selling point.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i'm no specs guy but doesn't the 3DS have more processing power than the gamecube anyways (2x266MHz vs 485MHz) so AI shouldn't be an issue (though i guess 3DS has OS stuff going on and they're two different games and blah blah)

It'd be nice if we could get some more knowledge dropped on this topic. The post made about their polycount was neat and informative, so maybe if someone by any chance knows anything about their AI...?

 

[fredrancour]

They can't put ICs in the base game because they haven't completed their beachwear alt costumes yet.

Ah, yes, the Sand-Dune Climbers.

 

[-Horizon-]

No, I don't hate you

Spoiler

Just Miku

Spoiler

And myself a bit

That second spoiler tagged plot twist D:
Kriken don't be like that!

Its your choice..

Horizon submits to no one!

 

[Makai]

i'm no specs guy but doesn't the 3DS have more processing power than the gamecube anyways (2x266MHz vs 485MHz) so AI shouldn't be an issue (though i guess 3DS has OS stuff going on and they're two different games and blah blah)

It'd be nice if we could get some more knowledge dropped on this topic. The post made about their polycount was neat and informative, so maybe if someone by any chance knows anything about their AI...?

There's more going on in terms of items, stages, and effects.

 

[Durden77]

The DLC characters make a lot of sense to me. A group full of vets, one which is very substantial and even divisive (Snake), one which many have been attached to for years in Smash (Ice Climbers), and two that many people really love, but are seen as semi-clones. All packaged in with one newcomer, which is compelling enough as it is.

There's pretty much at least one character in that pack for everyone.

 

[EatChildren]

Good feedback regarding Ice Climber complexity and performance, and was something I had on my mind when the 3DS version was first announced. Cutting a character like that due to the shackles of 3DS hardware would be sensible but extremely disappointing nonetheless, and in my opinion detrimental to the franchise. From the very beginning I've been worried that making a game that must, under all conditions, perform on the 3DS and the Wii U would ultimately hold back the latter, and that's a shame because it really shouldn't be so. Especially if it results in the cutting of a character like Ice Climbers, which went a long way towards diversifying the lineup.

EDIT: While I think Smash (along with Kart) is one of Nintendo's most ideal franchises for DLC, I can't see them splitting the roster. From the start they've been saying that stages will be different but the roster will be identical. Anything can happen I suppose.

 

[Caladrius]

Lack of Ice Climbers is the only part of the leak which struck me as truly weird. Not enough to discredit it in my eyes, but it's by far the strangest omission considering that they are the only characters in their franchise and have a completely unique playstyle.

Read that as calladuty boy. Kinda works?

Well I only play Call of Booty.

 

[georly]

Exactly, it's a perfect fit for kids. I usually just play on teams vs a cpu or let them go against a level 1 while I watch, but in the future I'll probably stick to time mode.

Lolll, how would playing as the cursor even work? You can shoot the duck, causing an explosion. You can miss the duck, causing a dog attack. Or you can shoot the enemy, instantly killing them. But I can't think of any attacks besides those three :x If you do play as the cursor though, one thing is for sure: we're gonna need an NES controller adapter to go with the GCN one. Real zappers mandatory to play as Duck Hunt.

You can shoot clay pigeons, summon ducks, shoot said ducks, dog jumps to fetch ducks. Any contact with ducks, pigeons, flashes, bullets, etc = damage. Any hits on dog = you take damage

 

[PK Gaming]

Mandatory post saying that Lucas is far and away the better of the two Mother/Earthbound characters in Smash so far and anything pointing to someone calling him a clone is misguided at best. Ness and Lucas have three specials that look the same but every nuance to Lucas' are wildly different and he possesses completely different (and better) normals. Why is he still a clone again?

Edit: Oh dammit, I'm responding to a post that is a bit older than this tab let on. =/

Define "best"

Competitively, Lucas was an inferior character. Design wise, he aped off an existing moveset. And he didn't have the smash history like Ness did.

I'd argue that he was worse in almost every aspect.

 

[The Bankslammer]

There's more going on in terms of items, stages, and effects.

More like what?

I'm honestly not sure what would make this game more CPU intensive than Melee, so any specifics would be appreciated.

 

[EhoaVash]

I really hope ice climbers return. Fuck that fake "leak"

If not, fuck 3ds version

 

[SmithnCo]

Lucas > Ness

I like Lucas's smashes a lot better. His specials are okay though I prefer Ness's down special where it is centered on him.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I could see Ice Climbers being both a technical hurdle and DLC.

Presuming a situation where the game has already been delayed and they have to get it out and do eventually figure out how to get Ice Climbers working but it's too late to fully build them for launch, so the 3DS team stays on while Sakurai et al. move to the Wii U version to finish it up.

 

[udivision]

If there were any DLC, it have to be free. It'd just be an update to the game, and it wouldn't really be your choice to download it. (I've noticed several of my Wii U games now say 1.1 or 1.01 on the title screen). I don't think Nintendo wants to deal with a fractured player base.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If there were any DLC, it have to be free. It'd just be an update to the game, and it wouldn't really be your choice to download it. (I've noticed several of my Wii U games now say 1.1 or 1.01 on the title screen). I don't think Nintendo wants to deal with a fractured player base.

What do they have to lose with a fractured player base, out of curiosity

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I don't think they are interesting enough characters to warrant being separate.

I feel there's a difference between a clone Wolf or clone Ganondorf or even clone Lucina and having those two.

Doc won't be the clone he was in Melee. Assuming they don't do something really stupid like give him a Fludd, he will be quite different from Mario.