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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING

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Yeah, fantastic analysis. Whatever problems this show still faces, whatever technical issues you could say about this seasons overall writing (and that leading up to the finale), they still nailed this ending/season overall within the limitations and what can be expected from this show. Of course there is always more they could have done. Characters and plot arcs could always be more fleshed out and given more depth (but can't do to the format of the series and lack of time). But all that aside I think the finale was both amazing in its pure entertainment, as well as just being a great end to this seasons arc. And I do think each episode this season had a tighter more coherent structure compared to Book 1 and especially Book 2. I also think the overall seasons structure was competent and had a follow through (and the ending actually paid things off and didn't feel detached).

My only criticism is that I do wonder if they could have done more with the Red Lotus. Instead of having the air nation training one off episode, maybe we could have had an episode that showed us the complex nature of Zaheer. The depths of his fierce commitment to his philosophies (why he came to this world view), as well as the relationships of that organization (why they follow Zaheer). The P'Li war lord exposition was poorly handled but it was very interesting. I would have liked to know more about that. I still love Zaheer as a villain. But I can't help but wonder how much more he could have been. He never descended into a cartoony mustache twirling villain, but he also seemed very surface level when all was said and done.

I loved every episode this season though. On an entertainment level I can't complain.

Ehh, I think that episode was needed. The plot-lines it handled COULD have been truncated though.

Ultimately, I think I am satisfied with the Red Lotus. They could have been done much better, but most of the issues with them stem more from the short season with the shorter episodes.

Now, I would not say no if next season had some flashbacks with them, but I think that is unlikely. If the next season is the same length as the last, I think I would much rather flashbacks from the Gaang.
 
In order to avoid spoilers, I'd like someone to PM me with an answer as to whether or not the third season is better than the second. I really enjoyed the bit about the first avatar in the second season, and the finale was t bad, but dear god I hated basically every other part of it. I did really like the first season though.
 
In order to avoid spoilers, I'd like someone to PM me with an answer as to whether or not the third season is better than the second. I really enjoyed the bit about the first avatar in the second season, and the finale was t bad, but dear god I hated basically every other part of it. I did really like the first season though.

It's easily the best season of Korra.
 
Enter the Void/Venom of the Red Lotus is the best finale of the LoK, and one of the best pair of episodes in the franchise. Which is fitting, because Book Change has been the only season of Legend of Korra that is punching in AtLA's weight class. While Change has suffered no blunders, it isn't mistake free, and there are even minor miscues in its finale which have been nagging issues all season. Let's talk about those first.

Jinora is no master airbender. She's simply not shown to be one. She has an understated role in the story, and a lot of her personal growth is instead given to a new character. While the end scene has her as the focus, it feels unearned. It's another bit of disappointing circumstance for her character, because she has potential for interesting character dynamics with Tenzin and Korra. While her initiation scene actually works, it's in spite of her (I'll specify why later). Jinora's most recurring contribution to the show is being a person of relative importance for another character to save or mourn over, while her lack of character development and ability leaves much to be desired in the wake of all the meaningful plot she is integral to. The writers of the show have already admitted to not knowing how or why Jinora does what she does, so I suppose they want us to forget all of that and focus on how much she looks like Aang. The new (old) look is snazzy on her, at least.

The other problem element is the general lack of cohesiveness with Team Avatar. They are always cordoned off into doing separate things, and not much of the plot rolls through that group as a whole. Aang and his entourage faced most of the story together, and were stronger characters for it. While each member of the LoK team found something to do in the finale, only Mako and Bolin supported each other in battle. It doesn't make for great group dynamics when so much of who each of these characters are is determined in absence of one another. Which really is another way of saying they're generally boring when together at best, and actively destructive at worst.

Aside from the aforementioned issues - which have been entrenched problems with the series almost since LoK began - the finale was great.

I want to first point out that the choreography and animation of the show has been outstanding all season, but especially here. You really get a feel for these characters – most evidently in the flow of battle. For example: in the brothers' runback with Ghazan and Ming Hua, Bolin is more confident in his attacks because he's emboldened by being able to lavabend. And although he's now more of a match for Ghazan, the latter still gets the upper hand due to experience before Mako makes it a 2v1. All of this would have been apparent even if the characters never said a word. Another fine example is how Korra is characterized as a berserk force of nature when she's in the Avatar State, dying from poison. She's jumping around like Ang Lee's HULK and rocketbending like Ozai. It speaks to both Korra's natural disposition and her mental state at the time. A true force of elemental power.

Everything that happened was extremely clear and readable. It let the drama build organically because the characters moved and reacted to things believably. In this sole important avenue does LoK actually hold a slight edge to AtLA. It's a sign of the times in advancement of technique and technology. Beautifully executed animation.

The rest of the finale builds on top of the fine foundation set by the animation. Multiple arcs, both plot and character, reach relatively satisfying conclusions. And most importantly, nothing was contrived and everything makes sense (with respect to the season it is contained). This is an important factor, one lesson Mike and Bryan no doubt have learned from the reaction to Book Air's finale. When the audience spends so much time trying to make sense of what's happening on screen and why, it detracts from the entire production. We know how Zaheer can fly, we know why Korra is limited while in the Avatar State, and we know that is how Zaheer is able to overcome a fully powered Avatar, when otherwise he would have no chance. Best of all, it all occurs due to the agency displayed by the characters themselves. The plot is carried by them, the major characters; not in spite of them. Coincidences such as a random rock outcropping being the deciding factor of the drama does not occur in Change's finale.

One such arc that I don't see mentioned often is Bolin and Mako's mini rivalry with Ming Hua and Ghazan. I understand why it's not really talked about given how it's mostly incidental within the plot, but bits of small characterization can be extracted from their interactions. While Bolin gaining lavabending is an obvious result of this particular plot elements, it also allows the viewer to see some humanizing aspects of the criminals such as Ghazan and Ming Hua's possible courtship and how Ghazan is respectful of his opponents in battle. It's small stuff that goes a bit of a way in making the viewer care for the antagonists. Or at least understand a bit about who the characters are.

It's these little things that help make Change so superior to the other books in the series. Possibilities arise from small directions in writing or animation. Photographs are scrutinized, lines are debated. The writing also smartly veered from the failing romance plotting and refocused around the moralities and tenets of airbending culture. It was the first time in Legend of Korra that the major plot and motivations of the characters honestly complemented each other throughout the season. The rebuilding of a culture was Korra's goal from the beginning of the season, and it is within that culture that her foil and possible downfall is immersed. All the plot is in service or tangential to this paradigm. Because of all this can the main character finally grow.

Korra has constantly been struggling as a character, as a leader, and as the Avatar. And she's at her lowest point yet. Veelk has said much about this already so I won't retread on well defined ground, but the end scene is effective because of her. To be Korra is to be powerful, for better or worse. In that wheel chair, looking on at Jinora's finest moment, she sees both the product of her leadership, and her possible replacement(s). While it's a foregone conclusion that Korra will return to form, this situation she has been put in will be the first time Korra is truly confronted with obsolescence. It will, for a time, strip her of her most identifiable feature and force her to truly understand what the cost of battle can be and what the realities of being a leader are.

LoK Change has been a positive change on multiple fronts, ultimately bringing us to the main character's most fundamental challenge. Perhaps the most valuable thing this season has given me is the belief that the writing can be competent enough to follow through on most of the plot points introduced.
 
So are there any good Korra-likes to fill the itch between seasons?

Not necessarily a fantasy action-adventure but Zankyou no Terror (Terror in Resonance) has been very good so far. Deals with terrorism plus the protagonists and antagonists are both well-developed.

I also recommend Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
 
Western Action Cartoon wise? LOL they are literally a dying breed

Anime wise? ALOT depends on what you into.

I think Slaughtered is more appropriate, I think their downfall is companies fundamentally not understanding how to sell these things. Hell it happened to korra, YJ got canceled because toys.
 
yu yu hakusho if you want interesting characters and somewhat compelling problems. It's slow at first, because it's taking it's time to build up the main characters.

JoJo Bizarre adventure if you just want stupid action, with some pretty weird and funny moments.
 
Enter the Void/Venom of the Red Lotus [...]

This is probably the most concise and well reasoned analysis I have seen of the finale and the season thus far.

I particularly agree with your points on Jinora. I think she is the biggest ball dropped all season.

Like pre-Ultimatum Tenzin, we see very little to show that she deserves mastery. She is a bizarre case of "telling" amidst the sea of "showing" we have had all season.

The character can most likely be retroactively improved by giving her more to do next season.
 
Which FMA should I watch first? (Don't try to tell me one isn't worth watching, too many differing opinions on that.)

The original. It goes off on its own halfway through the series. Brotherhood quickly goes through what the original covered then follows closely to the manga. Both are fantastic.
 
Which FMA should I watch first? (Don't try to tell me one isn't worth watching, too many differing opinions on that.)

FMA original series- does the opening arc, aka the background arc better that isn't debatable.

FMA Brotherhood- follows manga to the tee.

They aren't seasons 1 and 2, they follow the same content up until a point and then the original series had to come up with their own shit because the manga/comic wasn't far enough. FMA Brotherhood on the other hand follows the manga completely.

So the answer to your question is: you don't have to watch both. Popular opinion is to just watch Brotherhood, if you watch both that's like 100+ episodes of stuff that is supposed to cover the same story.
 
FMA original series- does the opening arc, aka the background arc better that isn't debatable.

FMA Brotherhood- follows manga to the tee.

They aren't seasons 1 and 2, they follow the same content up until a point and then the original series had to come up with their own shit because the manga/comic wasn't far enough. FMA Brotherhood on the other hand follows the manga completely.

So the answer to your question is: you don't have to watch both. Popular opinion is to just watch Brotherhood, if you watch both that's like 100+ episodes of stuff that is supposed to cover the same story.

I just watched Brotherhood only. I probably will watch the original at some point, but I'm perfectly content with what I saw.

Plus it's 65 episodes which is just the right amount. Any more and you might get burnt out.
 
I just watched Brotherhood only. I probably will watch the original at some point, but I'm perfectly content with what I saw.

Plus it's 65 episodes which is just the right amount. Any more and you might get burnt out.

Yep this.

See the thing is that those of us who were watching FMA originally as it aired have largely a lot of appreciation for what it is and what it attempted to do because we had no point of comparison. And as far as shows that make anime-original content go, it is a very solid endeavor. Heck it's probably one of the better examples of making anime original content that the manga didn't have (WW2 silliness aside).

Then FMA Brotherhood came out from a studio that is widely loved in the animation department, and it delivered amazingly as we had some spectacular battles. Not to mention the characters are explored way more and given bigger roles, at least those that are supposed to have a big role. FMA did some interesting choices like they have different homunculi and one of them is especially a good idea, but the way homunculi work in one series and the other is completely different.

Regardless of which one you watch, you'll have a good time, but if you would rather not watch 100+ episodes at a time, which is a lot to watch, watch Brotherhood alone.
 
wow i have been swayed, watching brotherhood

i am a little surprised no one mentioned kill la kill. i guess it's not as mainstream?

but that one has a fairly large female cast (in the protagonist and antagonist roles), a shitload of energy in its animation, and it's just fun as hell to watch. plus it also has a character named mako and this mako is actually really great. it's not in english yet, but it is on netflix, subbed.
 
i am a little surprised no one mentioned kill la kill. i guess it's not as mainstream?

but that one has a fairly large female cast (in the protagonist and antagonist roles), a shitload of energy in its animation, and it's just fun as hell to watch. plus it also has a character named mako and this mako is actually really great.

it's also awful. i couldn't last more than 10 minutes before the gratuitous fans-service, awful trope cliches, and irritating characters put me off.
 
i am a little surprised no one mentioned kill la kill. i guess it's not as mainstream?

but that one has a fairly large female cast (in the protagonist and antagonist roles), a shitload of energy in its animation, and it's just fun as hell to watch. plus it also has a character named mako and this mako is actually really great.

Probably because it looks weird as heck.
 
i am a little surprised no one mentioned kill la kill. i guess it's not as mainstream?

but that one has a fairly large female cast (in the protagonist and antagonist roles), a shitload of energy in its animation, and it's just fun as hell to watch. plus it also has a character named mako and this mako is actually really great. it's not in english yet, but it is on netflix, subbed.

Because it's highly divisive and overly hyped to the point many people left with a bad taste since characters, especially main ones, ended up being one-note. Not to mention the fan service is over-the-top, even if it was done on purpose it can make people uncomfortable. And fights were mediocre after the beginning. Most of AnimeGAF was severely disappointed by it.

You basically only watch that once you've seen enough anime and know what you're getting into. If you want to watch a superior show from the same team, you watch Gurren Lagann.
 
i am a little surprised no one mentioned kill la kill. i guess it's not as mainstream?

but that one has a fairly large female cast (in the protagonist and antagonist roles), a shitload of energy in its animation, and it's just fun as hell to watch. plus it also has a character named mako and this mako is actually really great. it's not in english yet, but it is on netflix, subbed.

Youtubed this. What the hell did I just watch?
 
it's also awful. i couldn't last more than 10 minutes before the gratuitous fans-service, awful trope cliches, and irritating characters put me off.

hey, i'm not into 'fanservice' either but the fanservice this show delivers at the end is fucking great. and i don't mean scantily clad girls, i mean just awesome shit happening on screen that makes you root for the characters.

ten minutes is hardly enough time to judge and entire series. if i did the same with brohood i would call it a complete retread of the first fma not worthy of my time. but that would be pretty inaccurate, i believe.

Probably because it looks weird as heck.

it is weird as heck. it's part of the fun. i had heard a lot of stuff about it that made me believe i would not enjoy it. i had just come off watching knights of sidonia, which is kind of like attack on titan in space, but it was so dull and dreary. i gave kill la kill a shot despite all the negative thing i'd heard about women showing skin, and instead found i actually wanted to watch what was happening.
 
Because it's highly divisive and overly hyped to the point many people left with a bad taste since characters, especially main ones, ended up being one-note. Not to mention the fan service is over-the-top, even if it was done on purpose it can make people uncomfortable. And fights were mediocre after the beginning. Most of AnimeGAF was severely disappointed by it.

You basically only watch that once you've seen enough anime and know what you're getting into. If you want to watch a superior show from the same team, you watch Gurren Lagann.

i'm about three episodes into gurren lagann. it's really not grabbing me the same way. glasses dude is entertaining, but simon is renton levels of annoying. the girl is okay.

i actually hadn't seen much anime since... eureka seven. so i was closer to about a decade removed from it by the time i started on kill la kill and i still found it to be a lot of fun.

if i can think of any non-anime contemporary to korra it would probably be the canceled sym-bionic titan, which also intentionally plays heavily into anime tropes and 80s culture.
 
It feels like the whole season I've been hearing people complain about how they don't like it how Korra always has to save the day while the side characters are weak and useless and now all of a sudden people are complaining that she needed help?

I doubt Aang would have taken out Zaheer any quicker. He was pretty much running and dodging the whole time and that just dragged the fight on so the poison could take it's toll. Also, Korra was about to smash right though Zaheer if it wasn't for the poison.

You mean like Ozai during the finale when he was in the Avatar state? Aang would have destroyed him with far more ease. The issue was wouldn't kill him, he would have to the bending away at which point the poison would have kicked in but if he actually wanted to kill him he could fairly quickly.
 
i'm about three episodes into gurren lagann. it's really not grabbing me the same way. glasses dude is entertaining, but simon is renton levels of annoying. the girl is okay.

i actually hadn't seen much anime since... eureka seven. so i was closer to about a decade removed from it by the time i started on kill la kill and i still found it to be a lot of fun. if you haven't noticed, i don't pop into animegaf pretty much ever so i don't really give a shit about what they think. i'm giving my impressions here.

if i can think of any non-anime contemporary to korra it would probably be the canceled sym-bionic titan, which also intentionally plays heavily into anime tropes and 80s culture.

Trust me it's almost unanimously agreed that Gurren Lagann is better than Kill La Kill. There's even a time skip in the middle of the show, and both halves have their entertaining bits, not to mention the animation is balls to the walls crazy and doesn't resort to cheap tricks or CG at all or not nearly as often as Kill La Kill.

Simon, unlike Renton and Shinji and most other "whining" protagonists, doesn't keep whining the whole way through. In fact he transforms into a badass by the end of the first half and the entire second half. There's a reason it's easily like the internet's #1 favorite anime, if not up there. There's a lot of growth from the lead characters, and a lot of changes especially in the second half. Up there with my favorite anime.

Heck Kamina (the glasses guy) is extremely popular, his glasses are iconic and can be seen everywhere usually. AnimeGAF all had his glasses for a bit, even my old Avatar:
BfQUroU.png
 
Trust me it's almost unanimously agreed that Gurren Lagann is better than Kill La Kill. There's even a time skip in the middle of the show, and both halves have their entertaining bits, not to mention the animation is balls to the walls crazy and doesn't resort to cheap tricks or CG at all or not nearly as often as Kill La Kill.

Simon, unlike Renton and Shinji and most other whining protagonists, doesn't keep whining the whole way through. In fact he transforms into a badass by the end of the first half and the entire second half. There's a reason it's easily like the internet's #1 favorite anime, if not up there.

Heck Kamina (the glasses guy) is extremely popular, his glasses are iconic and can be seen everywhere usually.

i'm familiar with the switchup in the middle of the show, but i'm struggling to get there. right now i had binge-watched kill la kill. ttgl's been stuck at 3 for a month. i'll probably keep chipping at it until it gets interesting. the friend who had me watch it told me there's a point where every episode is 'shit just got real' and the next episode is 'okay, now shit got real' until the end of the series, so i'm excited for the promise of that.

but then again people kept acting like eureka seven would actually get better and then it never did and i stopped watching anime for seven years.

i'm going to take out my anger on eureka seven for a bit because holy fuck what an awful show that was.
 
I don't like Eureka 7 as much as I used to as I watched it first when there wasn't much anime going on, and it was one of the few shows airing on Adult Swim. Most of the anime I watched in Toonami/Adult Swim is still one of my favorites, but that one for some reason never stuck around. Renton ruined it. And the more I watch anime the more I realize I don't like Eureka 7.
 
Trust me it's almost unanimously agreed that Gurren Lagann is better than Kill La Kill. There's even a time skip in the middle of the show, and both halves have their entertaining bits, not to mention the animation is balls to the walls crazy and doesn't resort to cheap tricks or CG at all or not nearly as often as Kill La Kill.

Simon, unlike Renton and Shinji and most other "whining" protagonists, doesn't keep whining the whole way through. In fact he transforms into a badass by the end of the first half and the entire second half. There's a reason it's easily like the internet's #1 favorite anime, if not up there. There's a lot of growth from the lead characters, and a lot of changes especially in the second half. Up there with my favorite anime.

Heck Kamina (the glasses guy) is extremely popular, his glasses are iconic and can be seen everywhere usually. AnimeGAF all had his glasses for a bit, even my old Avatar:
BfQUroU.png
If your going into that much detail you may as well tell him or her there's an abrupt change in tone after the first third. The first third is mostly comedic monster of the week until a certain event. Hell the creators were quite literally winging it as shown by the introduction scenes of the first episodes which was supposed to be original end game.
 
Youtubed this. What the hell did I just watch?

Dumb stupid fun, The story may not be the best but the show excels at getting you pumped up while watching it.
If you like Gurren Lagann you may like this show.

May I know where this circus picture was from? I do not remember it from the show. Thanks.

They showed the picture in episode 5 when Suyin was talking about her past and travels around the world. The full pic was shown at comic con and has since being used heavily as evidence that Suyin is evil and part of Red Lotus.
 
hey, i'm not into 'fanservice' either but the fanservice this show delivers at the end is fucking great. and i don't mean scantily clad girls, i mean just awesome shit happening on screen that makes you root for the characters.

ten minutes is hardly enough time to judge and entire series. if i did the same with brohood i would call it a complete retread of the first fma not worthy of my time. but that would be pretty inaccurate, i believe.

10 minutes was an exaggeration, I sat through the first 2 eps. I'm sorry, but none of the characters have any depth to them and are mostly an excuse to have barely covered female anatomy. I find it difficult to root for characters I can't even vaguely empathize with.
 
I don't like Eureka 7 as much as I used to as I watched it first when there wasn't much anime going on, and it was one of the few shows airing on Adult Swim. Most of the anime I watched in Toonami/Adult Swim is still one of my favorites, but that one for some reason never stuck around. Renton ruined it. And the more I watch anime the more I realize I don't like Eureka 7.

here are my recollections 7 years later:

-renton is a kid who dreams big and wants to be a big shot
-monstrous alien creatures called coral attack and kill things by just ripping big chunks out of them
-renton joins this thing called the gekko state which is some sort of anti-government group but instead of ever doing anything they just fly around for 52 episodes and then the show ends
-holland is the captain of the ship and he's an awful person
-talho is the ship's tsundere who likes holland. she gets a lobotomy halfway through the show
-renton is in love with eureka but eureka is dating holland or something. also, eureka has three terrible children who destroyed an entire city and then waited for someone to find them
-eureka is a coral
-there is something that happened called the summer of love. this was a bad thing. i don't remember why but it was related to the aliens showing up, and renton and his sister and his dad were all related in some way with that event
-where does seaweed look for a job? in the kelp-wanted ads. the kelp-wanted ads, coral

okay i'm done.
 
If you are looking for an anime to watch that is very much like Korra, then Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood really is the only choice isn't it?
 
If you are looking for an anime to watch that is very much like Korra, then Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood really is the only choice isn't it?

Brotherhood is great but it's really not the only one. There's massive swades of battle shounen. It's literally pick your poison.
 
If you are looking for an anime to watch that is very much like Korra, then Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood really is the only choice isn't it?

There are other choices. But they're not very good. There's that anime about the different clans in Japan that control different elements, and the main guy is from a fire family who disowned him but he controls wind and one of his cousins who controls fire has the hots for him.

But if you want to watch an actually competent show, you go to FMA: Brotherhood. I mean there are more traditional battle shonen too, but I'd say in terms of tone and cast of characters and action animation this is the closest.

Mike and Bryan have said that Cowboy Bebop was a huge inspiration for Avatar/Korra, so maybe try that show?

Besides Spike's karate and both having great animation, I don't really see it. Maybe they meant it as in it inspired them because it's such an amazing show (my #1 anime btw)
 
i'm about three episodes into gurren lagann. it's really not grabbing me the same way. glasses dude is entertaining, but simon is renton levels of annoying. the girl is okay.

I had the opposite reaction. Kill la Kill didn't grab me, but I'm really enjoying Gurren Lagann. It just feels so damned earnest and optimistic. Like YEAH BRO, GRAB THAT ROBOT YOU GOT THIS SHIT WE ARE AWESOME
 
i always thought katanagatari was pretty rad, but there's not a lot of ways to watch it and it has about a 9:1 talk to fight ratio.

Mike and Bryan have said that Cowboy Bebop was a huge inspiration for Avatar/Korra, so maybe try that show?

bebop and flcl both.
 
I had the opposite reaction. Kill la Kill didn't grab me, but I'm really enjoying Gurren Lagann. It just feels so damned earnest and optimistic. Like YEAH BRO, GRAB THAT ROBOT YOU GOT THIS SHIT WE ARE AWESOME

that's all on kamina though. like i was in it for kill la kill with a defined antagonist from the start, the comedy relief, and a protagonist with a goal. and then there was a wide supporting cast that was all cool except for tenzin (think that was his name, the guy who got jobbed throughout the series). right now it's super charisma man's adventures to the stars. that's all it has for me. the rest of the cast needs to start picking up the slack because they sort of have to.

leeron seems pretty rad at least.
 
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