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[Alcoremortis]

My problem with the trio is this: they are immune to death.
That is not a good thing in Doctor Who, imho.

We had a character being immune to death, it was Captain Jack. But it was a known fact about him. The trio? However beautiful and sassy Jenny is, their presence still means "no danger whatsoever".

What I like the most about the Big Finsih 8th Doctor audio stories is that they felt real stories, with proper endings, tragedies, somethimes. The trio lessens that effect. I just wish they would once again tackle social commentary, let the doctor go somewhere where the situation is hopeless. Capaldi is a great fit for that, but only when the situation is not relieved of any kind of threat.

To add an example: if Deep Breath was an audio play, instead of Vastra/Strax/Jenny, we would have 3 random humans from London. They would most likely meat their tragic fate by the hand of the robots. Compare that to the comedic "oh, we are in danger" parts seen in the actual episode.

I don't think it's a problem with the trio, it's a problem with Moffat in general. The number of people who have died in episodes of Doctor Who at all has gone down shockingly ever since he took over. In the RTD era, it was a huge fucking deal if nobody died in an episode. The moment Moffat took over, it seems like everybody lives every episode. Or if someone dies, it's before the Doctor shows up.

 

[Vibranium]

The first Cybermen are among the most scary things I have ever watched. They felt human, yet like a twisted version of our own desires for efficiency and perfection.

After that they looked more and more like robots and it is hard to tell the 'man' beneath/inside.

Update them, but get that edge back.

For those of you who are new to Doctor Who or have only watched Nu-Who, this is what their faces looked like:

Man, they scared the crap out of me when I started watching Classic Who and the existing parts of The Tenth Planet. And they were also great in fantastic Tomb of the Cybermen, Patrick Troughton pulled off the sense of fear really well. The Doctor starts off like his usual know-it-all self and then as the situation escalates he realizes what they have unleashed. The panic that ensues just seals the deal.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

The first Cybermen are among the most scary things I have ever watched. They felt human, yet like a twisted version of our own desires for efficiency and perfection.

After that they looked more and more like robots and it is hard to tell the 'man' beneath/inside.

Update them, but get that edge back.

For those of you who are new to Doctor Who or have only watched Nu-Who, this is what their faces looked like:

Best Cybermen design, so creepy, and somewhat human, but not. The black holes for eyes and electronic voices, but it's flesh underneath. I really want them to bring this design (maybe slightly updated) back. 48 years later and it still is nightmare fuel to me.

 

[Blader]

Okay, finally watched Deep Breath this morning. It was alright. Doesn't touch the godly effort of The Eleventh Hour (the more time passes, the more it's clear that Moffat peaked with that episode) but it was a hell of a lot better than The Bells of St. John, and I think it did everything it needed to do well enough. By which I mean, get people used to Capaldi.

I know a lot in here are shitting on the blatant fan pandering to people worried about Capaldi and his older look, from Clara's own reactions to Twelve to her phone call with Eleven (which I thought was very sweet actually), but I think it's a legitimate concern that Moffat was smart to acknowledge and get out ahead of. There are a lot of people for whom Doctor Who was defined by Tennant and Smith, and Capaldi just doesn't have that same feel or youth. He could have just shoved it in people's faces, "This is the Doctor, he's just older now, get used to it!" and to some extent he did, but for the most part it did a nice job of easing people into this new Doctor, reminding them he's still the same man underneath but appreciating why they'd feel apprehensive about him at first.

The plot was pretty throwaway, it was too long/slow, the dinosaur seemed like a pointless addition, I'm a little tired of the Paternoster trio, and the whole first 20 minutes just felt really off in general. But the most important things this ep needed to do was reintroduce the Doctor and help the audience connect to him through Clara, and I think Moffat, Capaldi and Jenna all did both of these pretty well.

Which isn't to say that I'm *completely* sold on Capaldi. I'm still not entirely sure what to think of or expect from his Doctor, or this touted "darker" direction for the show. Whereas The Eleventh Hour sold me completely on Smith right out of the gate, I still don't know entirely how to feel about Capaldi. But I'm looking forward to finding out.

 

[ascully]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I don't think it's a problem with the trio, it's a problem with Moffat in general. The number of people who have died in episodes of Doctor Who at all has gone down shockingly ever since he took over. In the RTD era, it was a huge fucking deal if nobody died in an episode. The moment Moffat took over, it seems like everybody lives every episode. Or if someone dies, it's before the Doctor shows up.

Yeah, it's gotten pretty ridiculous how nobody ever dies.

But if they do, don't worry, because they'll just be brought back to life by the end of the episode. Jenny died twice in The Name of the Doctor, and she was still fine by the end of it. It used to be that if only two or three characters died in a story it meant that everyone had gotten off light. By Moffat standards, that would be a bloodbath.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

Seriously? I'm not American (Canadian), but I can understand him loud & clear.

 

[GulAtiCa]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

Really? I'm from the States, and have no issue with his accent. Never really had issue understanding anyone on this show.

 

[ascully]

Yeah I understand him perfectly, I spent most of my life in the UK. She has trouble with him, it might be because he speaks very fast.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I had a hard time understanding him at various points when he was in crazy homeless mode, but he got better as the episode went on.

 

[Ser Goje]

Capaldi's fine, but understanding and hearing Amy was hell.

I'm used to watching everything with subs anyways.

 

[ascully]

I had a hard time understanding him at various points when he was in crazy homeless mode, but he got better as the episode went on.

Glad it was not just her. I think its when hes talking very fast near the start that was the main issue. He will probably calm down over the weeks and be easier for her to understand.

 

[Slowdive]

Yeah, it's gotten pretty ridiculous how nobody ever dies.

But if they do, don't worry, because they'll just be brought back to life by the end of the episode. Jenny died twice in The Name of the Doctor, and she was still fine by the end of it. It used to be that if only two or three characters died in a story it meant that everyone had gotten off light. By Moffat standards, that would be a bloodbath.

I don't know if you saw this but I'll post it again.

Steven Moffat has said that there will be more deaths in the upcoming series and that there are “dark times ahead.”

Speaking in the new issue of DWM he says: “It’s a bizarre thing that I always find myself accused of killing off characters, and I think, ‘What on Earth are you talking about? I don’t kill nearly enough people in my fiction!’

He adds: “I’m aware that I have a sentimental tendency to whack people back on their feet again – you can have several deaths in one lifetime, apparently – and I’m aware that that’s a weakness, so I thought in our new, scary universe we’d make sure we off some people, and that would make it more exciting and more visceral. The word I keep using is ‘visceral’.

“For our new Doctor, there are dark times ahead.”

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-death-there-are-dark-times-ahead-65708.htm

 

[The Scollard]

Finally managed to find the time to watch the episode. It was... alright. It wasn't fantastic, but it wasn't horrible either. It was good, but unspectacular. It did a good job of introducing Capaldi, but there were still quite a few problems with it.

Strangely enough, I had the exact opposite problem with this episode that I did with the entirety of last season. While I felt that several of the episodes in the last series would have been better had they had a longer running time, I felt this episode would have done better had it been shorter. There were several scenes that just felt like filler (like the Strax check-up scene). Some elements of the plot also felt like they didn't belong, like the dinosaur. If you're going to do a story involving a dinosaur in Victorian London, make the story about the dinosaur! While I enjoyed the villains, the dinosaur felt like it should have been its own plot.

Also, I (like a few people if these forums are anything to go by) am getting tired of the Paternoster gang. It felt like they were using the same jokes over and over again this episode (ex. all the times they mention Jenny and Vastra are married).

I'm planning on seeing it again tonight in theaters. With Moffat's scripts, I like to wait awhile before critically analyzing it, because you're often so caught up in the spectacle that you don't notice certain plot holes (What happened to the Zygons again?) right after viewing.

All and all, the episode was certainly better than The Twin Dilemma or Time and the Rani. However, it's not as good as something like Spearhead from Space. The Eleventh Hour is the better Doctor introduction episode written by Moffat.

 

[Scooter155]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

I understood maybe 60% of his dialogue, gonna have to watch again... and again.

 

[Tregard]

Anyone still having trouble hearing a lot being said because of how loud the background music is? I've been having this issue since the Eleventh Hour, it's really irritating :/

The new theme is reeeeally not great, but the intro makes up for it. Seems a lot snappier than normal. Nothing will beat Tennant/Tate's intro for me, though.

EDIT: Also one thing that confused me, The Doctor could understand the T-Rex, yeah? And yet Clara couldn't. Does the TARDIS not do that constant translation thing it used to do for the other companions? (A la Rose in The Christmas Invasion?)

 

[Scooter155]

Anyone still having trouble hearing a lot being said because of how loud the background music is? I've been having this issue since the Eleventh Hour, it's really irritating :/

The new theme is reeeeally not great, but the intro makes up for it. Seems a lot snappier than normal. Nothing will beat Tennant/Tate's intro for me, though.

EDIT: Also one thing that confused me, The Doctor could understand the T-Rex, yeah? And yet Clara couldn't. Does the TARDIS not do that constant translation thing it used to do for the other companions? (A la Rose in The Christmas Invasion?)

TARDIS translation has its limits, I guess. The Doctor can speak Baby and Horse, and apparently, Dinosaur. But we've never seen the TARDIS translate any of those languages for his companions, or anyone else.

Makes no sense but is perfectly consistent with how weird the whole universe is.

 

[thefro]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

I had trouble when he was mumbling in the first part of the episode but I understood everything once The Doctor realized that he was Scottish.

When I got caught up with the show, I generally watched with subs on because I'd miss a bit of dialogue here and there because of the fast talking, British slang, people mumbling, bad audio mix, and the occasional character who has a thick regional accent. But I understand 99% of the stuff.

 

[Android18a]

There were several scenes that just felt like filler (like the Strax check-up scene).

I too thought this was a bit out of place, but I was on the iPlayer today and noticed there was a Doctor Who special of Blue Peter, and they revealed the results of three competition winners - a competition to design a gadget for the first episode of the series.

The three chosen items were a Sonic Gauntlet (used by Jenny in the opening scene), A Sonic Hairpin (used by Vastra to call the wagon and lock it) and Strax's Sonic Medical device. So evidently this particular scene was included primarily for the competition winner's gadget to get an airing.

Hey, at least it's better than the Absorbaloff, right?

 

[ClivePwned]

I don't know if you saw this but I'll post it again.

Run through the Moffat-filter, it reads thusly

Steven Moffat has said that there will be more deaths undone to undercut any sense of drama in the upcoming series and that there are “dark times ahead which I will then undo.”

Speaking in the new issue of DWM he says: “It’s a bizarre thing that I always find myself accused of killing off characters and bringing them back to life, and I think, ‘What on Earth are you talking about? I don’t not kill nearly enough people and bring them back to life in my fiction! Only Jeff is dead.’

He adds: “I’m aware that I have a sentimental tendency to whack people back on their feet again – you can have several deaths undone in one lifetime, apparently – and I’m aware that that’s a weakness, so I thought in our new, not that scary universe we’d make sure we off some people and then bring them back to life immediately, and that would make it more exciting and more visceral. The word I keep using is ‘visceral’. I need to look up what that means."

“For our new Doctor, there are dark times ahead. But that's mainly his jacket. It's quite dark.”

In the next episode, Adric wakes up on the TARDIS having fallen asleep. "I went to pieces for a while and now I'm better."

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I don't know if you saw this but I'll post it again.



http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-death-there-are-dark-times-ahead-65708.htm

That's nice if he follows through on that (provided these moments are actually well written), but I have my doubts. Moffat has also built up quite a long reputation now of saying random shit about what the future will bring that winds up being a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Blader]

Run through the Moffat-filter, it reads thusly

Steven Moffat has said that there will be more deaths undone to undercut any sense of drama in the upcoming series and that there are “dark times ahead which I will then undo.”

Speaking in the new issue of DWM he says: “It’s a bizarre thing that I always find myself accused of killing off characters and bringing them back to life, and I think, ‘What on Earth are you talking about? I don’t not kill nearly enough people and bring them back to life in my fiction! Only Jeff is dead.’

He adds: “I’m aware that I have a sentimental tendency to whack people back on their feet again – you can have several deaths undone in one lifetime, apparently – and I’m aware that that’s a weakness, so I thought in our new, not that scary universe we’d make sure we off some people and then bring them back to life immediately, and that would make it more exciting and more visceral. The word I keep using is ‘visceral’. I need to look up what that means."

“For our new Doctor, there are dark times ahead. But that's mainly his jacket. It's quite dark.”

In the next episode, Adric wakes up on the TARDIS having fallen asleep. "I went to pieces for a while and now I'm better."

Jeff's dead?!

Guess he couldn't get that girlfriend after all...

 

[M.Bluth]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

Seriously? I'm not American (Canadian), but I can understand him loud & clear.

Really? I'm from the States, and have no issue with his accent. Never really had issue understanding anyone on this show.

I had a hard time understanding him at various points when he was in crazy homeless mode, but he got better as the episode went on.

I had difficulty while watching the episode on TV. But I think it might be the broadcast itself in my case, since when I rewatched it on iPlayer, I heard him clearly and had no trouble.

I had the same issue during the regeneration scene, iirc. The dialog didn't sound well, yet the offscreen audio of people's reaction videos sounded clearer. I need to fix my settings.

 

[ClivePwned]

For those who are having issues with sound mixes, are you listening through speakers or headphones?

 

[xandaca]

Man, they scared the crap out of me when I started watching Classic Who and the existing parts of The Tenth Planet. And they were also great in fantastic Tomb of the Cybermen, Patrick Troughton pulled off the sense of fear really well. The Doctor starts off like his usual know-it-all self and then as the situation escalates he realizes what they have unleashed. The panic that ensues just seals the deal.

Completely agree. Right now the Cybermen are little more than a palette/catchphrase swap for the Daleks when they could be so, so much creepier. Being able to see the humanoid eyes inside the shell is a terrible reminder of where these creatures came from and there's a living, flesh and bloody being inside them even though they've surrendered all trace of consciousness to technological uniformity. That's powerful stuff. Big metal stompy people are just a bit ridiculous no matter how fast they move. If anything, I'd like the cyber elements to be stripped back even more so certain cybermen could be identifiable as certain characters: it'd absolutely terrify the kiddies if a sympathetic character from earlier returned as an unthinking villain, slave to his mechanical implants. To my mind, the Daleks should be the genocidal monsters, whose first motivation is killing everything and thinking second, while the Cybermen should be slower and more devious, perhaps interested in keeping people alive to facilitate conversion later on. Either way, the two monsters are in severe need of differentiation.

 

[Kurdel]

Leaving soon to go watch it again in the Cinema, can't wait to see that Strax bit!

 

[Chitown B]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

yeah I missed a lot of what he said.

 

[sca2511]

Not sure if it's been posted, but did anyone notice that the

Spoiler

dying Tardis in Trenzalore has the same interior as Capaldi's?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I think both Eleven and Twelve's share design similarities.

 

[twobear]

As a New Doctor episode that clearly was not as good as The Eleventh Hour, but I thought it was decent. We got more character development from Clara than we did in the whole of the last series, and Capaldi was great; though I don't think he made as strong an impression on me with this episode as Matt did in TEH (though that might have been scripting too).

I'm kind of worried about

Spoiler

Missy, though. A sassy woman, with a mysterious relationship with the Doctor? Where have I heard this before...except every woman Moffat has ever written?

 

[Slowdive]

Not sure if it's been posted, but did anyone notice that the

Spoiler

Dying Tardis in Trenzalore has the same interior as Capaldi's?

The interior hasn't changed that much from Smith's.

 

[JonathanEx]

Basically they added some bookcases and a nice chair.

 

[twobear]

Not sure if it's been posted, but did anyone notice that the

Spoiler

dying Tardis in Trenzalore has the same interior as Capaldi's?

Because the TARDIS interior at that point was the same as it is now.

Spoiler

In fact they filmed that scene on the last day of shooting for Time of the Doctor.

 

[sca2511]

The interior hasn't changed that much from Smith's.

It looks pretty different to me.

But what I mean to say that is that

Spoiler

he was supposed to die at Trenzalore according to prophecy, so would Capaldi be the last?

 

[Slowdive]

It looks pretty different to me.

It's the same, just with bookshelves, blackboards and a chair, the lighting is of course very different though.

 

[thefro]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...d-season-premiere-ever-on-bbc-america/296441/

New York – August 25, 2014 – The new era of Doctor Who begins with the highest rated season premiere ever on BBC AMERICA. The US embraced award winning actor Peter Capaldi’s first full episode as the Doctor, delivering 2.58 million total viewers Live+SD Cume*. From 8:00-10:00pm, Doctor Who ranked as the #1 program in all of cable among total viewers and A25-54. BBC AMERICA was the #1 network and Doctor Who was the #1 show in all of television on Twitter and Tumblr for the day. Over 1 million total viewers Live+SD Cume* tuned in for BBC AMERICA’s new eight part paranormal thriller, Intruders, which helped deliver BBC AMERICA its highest rated Saturday night ever.

In its 8:15pm premiere, Doctor Whoeep Breath delivered 2.2 million total viewers and over 1 million A25-54, growing a significant 46% total viewers and +39% A25-54 from the season 7.2 premiere.

I wonder what the numbers would be if the show was on a more widely available channel. I guess it does benefit on BBC America since it's basically the flagship show besides Top Gear.

 

[googleplex]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

I have no problem with Capaldi's accent.

 

[twobear]

It looks pretty different to me.

It's lit differently, and they've added bits on the second floor, but it's substantially the same set.

 

[Ein Bear]

I really dislike the series 7/8 TARDIS set, it's so dark, grey and depressing. Looks more like a factory floor than a magical time machine.

 

[sca2511]

I guess they are similar, but does that mean this would be the

Spoiler

last doctor?

 

[APZonerunner]

It looks pretty different to me.

But what I mean to say that is that

Spoiler

he was supposed to die at Trenzalore according to prophecy, so would Capaldi be the last?

He already changed history. It was meant to be 11 that died there during Time of the Doctor, but the Time Lords changed history by giving him regen energy. It was lit more darkly and with reds as a tomb, which is more similar to Capaldi's oranges, but it was intended to be Smith's.

Production-wise, I doubt they ever intended for Smith to have this TARDIS design, but with the production moving, this is how it panned out. They originally wanted to move the S5 TARDIS to the new studios, but because it was built on top of the old Torchwood hub, which was all concrete and such, it would've been nearly impossible to take up and move without nearly destroying it, and just as expensive as building a new set to destroy it then rebuild it fully... so they just went for an all new design, knowing it'd be more suited to their ideas for the next Doctor.

 

[JonathanEx]

It looks pretty different to me.

But what I mean to say that is that

Spoiler

he was supposed to die at Trenzalore according to prophecy, so would Capaldi be the last?

Prophecy would be that Matt, as the last Doctor, died at Trenzalore - history changed when he regenerated.

Edit: Me and AP on the same-stuff posting double act again, I see.

 

[twobear]

I really dislike the series 7/8 TARDIS set, it's so dark, grey and depressing. Looks more like a factory floor than a magical time machine.

It's my favourite TARDIS set in NuWho, haha.

 

[Maddocks]

they need to turn the console room into the console warehouse like they did for the movie. That place was gigantic.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Could of done without the sound effects and the audio mixing still needs work. Missed the line about Amy and a few others on first watch. Music is way too loud compared to voice.

 

[DieH@rd]

Capaldi's fine, but understanding and hearing Amy was hell.

I'm used to watching everything with subs anyways.

Amy?

 

[Ein Bear]

they need to turn the console room into the console warehouse like they did for the movie. That place was gigantic.

Yeah, the console room from the TV movie, and the one from series 5/6 are my favourites. They're larger, and actually look like rooms that the characters could spend a lot of time in. I like the 'lived-in' look.

 

[twobear]

The waffleirons and bicycle pumps never really worked for me as TARDIS controls. It kind of made sense if you thought that it was a set of controls that the Doctor had jury-rigged having run out of spare parts and not having Gallifrey to collect new ones from, but it was still silly, and with the idea that the console room can be changed at any time it makes absolutely no sense.

The new control room is much closer to what I envisaged, having grown up with the old white and grey control rooms of the older show. I hadn't really realised how much I missed that retro-futuristic TARDIS interior with big chunky switches and display screens build into the panels until they made a return. It just feels right.

 

[JonathanEx]

Cos I 'got in' to Who from 2005 onwards, for me the console room should be a bit brighter and orange/gold, like when they got 9/10's TARDIS really nice. Not this metallic stuff.

But then anyone who watched it from the classic will have such a different idea...

 

[Slowdive]

I really like the current control room, the new orange lighting looks better than the blue from last series too.