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[Freeman]

Maybe.

But it's way easier to find harmful female portrayals than it is to find equally harmful male portrayals. Anita can focus on one subject. That's allowed. People can have pet causes you know. Maybe your pet cause is stamping out cancer. Maybe mine is stamping out poverty.

If I reply to your attempts to raise awareness and money for a cancer research charity with 'What are you doing about starving people on the street?' you'd rightly think I was an asshole trying to sabotage your valid goal.

But don't you agree that it's fair for people to have an issue with the way things are being handled? There is an excessive focus on the bad examples and on the negative side of things, it's something that will take time to solve and that should be handle with much more care for things to move forward.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I remember a comic going around of Jade Raymond blowing a couple of journos who reviewed Assassin's Creed favorably, get it she's a woman lol

The gaming public -- and notably this forum -- has never been anything but classy in regards to Jade Raymond.

 

[plagiarize]

But don't you agree that it's fair for people to have an issue with the way things are being handled? There is an excessive focus on the bad examples and on the negative side of things, it's something that will take time to solve and that should be handle with much more care for things to move forward.

I think you should take such complaints about the videos to the threads about the videos.

 

[Vice]

I remember there was a soccer player was killed in Colombia because of a mistake he made in a World Cup. Bad examples exist everywhere for everything.

It is just as hard to find a game with a good female portrayal as it is hard to find a game with a good portrayal of anything.

The purpose of Tropes vs. Women is to focus on how women are portrayed though. Since there are less female characters of importance there will be less examples.

Its far from ideal but we have woman as head of studios, as some of the most accomplished game writers, as producers, as executives, as programmers, as journalists. In the tech side of things its a reality of the entire industry is has direct correlation with the number of people that are studding for this areas and if anything is a deep cultural issue. You also can't ignore the fact that the majority of players of traditional games are still men (missrepresentation of woman in smartphone games is likely not what everyone is talking about here).

Just because a medium appeals to one gender does not mean they have to alienate the other. If anything, it can only lead to growth. I mean, the most popular science fiction franchises for the last forty years involve strong female leaders and that's a genre that started off targeting young men.

But don't you agree that it's fair for people to have an issue with the way things are being handled? There is an excessive focus on the bad examples and on the negative side of things, it's something that will take time to solve and that should be handle with much more care for things to move forward.

Nope, you have to focus on the bad if you want things to change. Simply waiting is a fool's game that results in no change. If people just waited for the status quo to change on its own we'd be living in the world of 1865 or earlier.

 

[Htown]

not saying the threats arent real but... Sarkeesian is pretty transparent with trying to get publicity... how blown out of proportion is this?

this is the song that doesn't end
yes it goes on and on my friend
some people started singin' it not knowing what it was
and they'll continue singing it forever just because

 

[Nekofrog]

Jade Raymond was on the receiving end of a massive wave of repugnant and vile misogyny. We all remember that stupid webcomic, right?

 

[Mysterious]

I remember a comic going around of Jade Raymond blowing a couple of journos who reviewed Assassin's Creed favorably, get it she's a woman lol

Cammie Dunaway also got some sexist shit thrown her way after the E3 08 Nintendo conference

All I recall seeing regarding Cammie was that she was a mother, but that was because she pulled the whole "Mother's Day card" shit.

 

[truly101]

I remember a comic going around of Jade Raymond blowing a couple of journos who reviewed Assassin's Creed favorably, get it she's a woman lol

Cammie Dunaway also got some sexist shit thrown her way after the E3 08 Nintendo conference

I remember both of these, not good. I'm glad for Jade Raymond that Assassin's Creed has its own established legacy (good or bad) that the idea she used her sex appeal for favorable coverage died a pretty quick death.

 

[Dragonborn]

There are some actual games yes, although I think that poster was making a slight mistake in their characterization. The broader point, which is the main focus of Anita's most recent video, funnily enough, is that rape and kidnapping of women is often used as a motivator for the protagonist because "look how bad they are for raping women", while the reverse almost never happens. Its objectifying because it reduces the women's role into just things that are acted upon in a way we're supposed to find evil

Yea, I saw some of the video, thought not the whole thing (not a big fan of hers). Though I see what you mean, it's just a lot, subtler? Like, it seems a lot of this stuff is things I don't even really thing about. Like, if a female character needs to be saved or a male character punished for doing something bad to a female character, I just take it as the objective, I don't take a second to stop and think how that might be offensive.

And you know, I think that's one of the big issues, I feel like everyday I learn of something else that I don't even notice yet it offends people. It helps me get better at seeing what is right and what's wrong but I'd be lying if I said I was catching on all of it. My thoughts on this whole matter are kind of just all over the place.

I just get frustrated when people like this go out of their way to make everyone look bad. And I know the old saying "if you're not guilty of it, don't take the blame" but I hate seeing the gaming community as a whole painted this way. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do try and understand the issue, and I try to find the subtler things that seem to escape me.

There's a game that popular with gaffers that requires you to sexually punish 12 year old girls. And many people were pissed it was being censored on its arrival in the states.

I'm thinking Criminal Girls? I personally don't support censoring of any kind but....yea that one was weird. Japan is a whole other mess though, it seems most Japanese games have a lot of that (well not as extreme as this particular one but just objectifying in general).

Custer's Revenge.

That's that old Atari game, right? The one that was also incredibly racist.

 

[Buzzman]

I just wanted to come in and compliment everyone here who has been so patient and understanding while being barraged by these idiots. I truly believe that with time, we can and will stamp out the rampant misogyny and hatred in this community, even if this will take years.
At times it may feel like it's an endless parade of hatred that never stops, but know that a lot of us deeply appreciate you people trying to make this place better for everyone.


I love all of you <3

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

There's so many

Can you imagine the outrage if there was a game that required you to rape a guy? I can't imagine anyone defending that with all the 'artistic vision! Censorship!' shit.

I don't know of any that require the rape of a man no, but we were discussing in the other thread games that do portray rape/strong sexual violence towards males, I myself had a particularly nasty one that I suppose in a way could be considered rape.


Edit: again, any western equivalents? Japan and that sort of *culutre* seems like a different discussion and problem entirely

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

She criticized a few video games for having overly common sexist tropes.

I know, the horror!

That's a very partial rendering of events.

 

[kadotsu]

wow, internet threats? when will self centered misogynistic losers that are awkward and have no friends get off the internet and do something with their lives?

While I think that those engaging in this are deplorable and their behavior is appalling we shouldn't create a caricature of them. You don't need to be a fedora MRA nerd to be misogynistic. It is a prevalent problem and many different types of persons engage in it. Also pushing the "them" image away from yourself can make you lazy in examining your own behavior. It prevents an immediate defensive reaction when you are being called out for sexist acts and helps you learn.

 

[Freeman]

But it happens constantly to a particular gender, it's something that needs to be addressed.

If men in games were constantly being used as window dressing, damsels, or whatnot you'd have a point. I don't remember there being even one game that required you to rape men, let alone the amount we have for the reverse.

What games are you playing? The point about raping people I just don't get at all, what game had that? How relevant was it?

It is about just as hard to find a good representation of a male character as it is of a female character, when you find a game that has a good example of one there is usually a very good example of the other as well.

 

[Toxi]

I remember there was a soccer player was killed in Colombia because of a mistake he made in a World Cup. Bad examples exist everywhere for everything.

That example had to do with the Columbian mafia betting heavily on the team. Then Columbia lost badly in the Group Stage and the mob shot Escobar. It's not really comparable because of the gambling aspect, even if it is shitty. You're better off with the death of Albert Ebosse in Algeria this week after a fan chucked a stone at his head. Football fans can be nasty.

not saying the threats arent real but... Sarkeesian is pretty transparent with trying to get publicity... how blown out of proportion is this?

Please tell me how they are blown out of proportion.

 

[Keikaku]

Absolutely disgusting behavior.

It's incredible to me to see the difference in responses to Ms. Sarkeesian's videos between my female friends, coworkers and my girlfriend and my male friends/coworkers. Many of my male coworkers at almost every game studio I have worked for (granted, that's a grand total of 2) made disgusting comments about females, what they'd like to do to them, what they were "good for", whether they'd "get it", why feminism is bullshit, etc., etc. and their comments were hardly out of the ordinary for what I've seen of the industry sadly. They were always said with an air of attempted humor but that didn't make the comments themselves less terrible.

I haven't been in the industry long at all but I absolutely believe it has a problem with sexism towards women and the response to these videos is very telling. We've got a long ways to go.

I remember there was a soccer player was killed in Colombia because of a mistake he made in a World Cup. Bad examples exist everywhere for everything.

It is just as hard to find a game with a good female portrayal as it is hard to find a game with a good portrayal of anything.

Well, so long as you're consistent in your own life about not complaining about anything at all since bad things happen to everyone, I guess you're entitled to your attitude. Just remember, you've got no right to complain about anything because bad stuff happens to other people over other topics.

 

[googleplex]

This Anita/feminism thing is blown out of proportions. No one ever talked about this stuff before, we've had several successful women in this industry, now more than ever, that have worked their asses off for a long time to get where they are just like anyone else should.

This reminds me of all the white people on fox news that says race isn't really the problem. And the real problem are the black people throwing the "race card". It drives me nuts as a blackman so I can imagine how a woman must feel after reading the garbage you just posted.

Anita isn't part of this industry and never was, yet she acts like she is important now and is having a meaningful impact that will change the way we play games or whatever.

Sometimes it takes a outsider to make you realize how bad a problem you have.

People like Anita just come in, try to create a problem/conflict where there is none, people all feel entitled now and Mario games are considered feminist/racist (seriously, wtf!), gaming conversations on forums all turn to shit and there are no more good gaming dedicated discussions anymore, people instead have stopped playing games to come to places like here and talk about this "problem" that doesn't exist.

Just like all those uppity negros complaining about racism? They're the real problem.

Why was none of this ever mentioned before of never a problem before? It's not like female rights have completely changed in the last 2 to 3 years to make these kinds of discussions apparently more relevant now. It's just a minority creating all of this turmoil and getting called out for it by people who enjoy games as a hobby and are tired of all the important stuff we care about being left aside to these unimportant discussions that have taken too much time in the spotlight.

Also, thank you 4chan!

This guy right here....I'm dumbfounded at how oblivious you are.

 

[plagiarize]

Yea, I saw some of the video, thought not the whole thing (not a big fan of hers). Though I see what you mean, it's just a lot, subtler? Like, it seems a lot of this stuff is things I don't even really thing about. Like, if a female character needs to be saved or a male character punished for doing something bad to a female character, I just take it as the objective, I don't take a second to stop and think how that might be offensive.

And you know, I think that's one of the big issues, I feel like everyday I learn of something else that I don't even notice yet it offends people. It helps me get better at seeing what is right and what's wrong but I'd be lying if I said I was catching on all of it. My thoughts on this whole matter are kind of just all over the place.

I just get frustrated when people like this go out of their way to make everyone look bad. And I know the old saying "if you're not guilty of it, don't take the blame" but I hate seeing the gaming community as a whole painted this way. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do try and understand the issue, and I try to find the subtler things that seem to escape me.



I'm thinking Criminal Girls? I personally don't support censoring of any kind but....yea that one was weird. Japan is a whole other mess though, it seems most Japanese games have a lot of that (well not as extreme as this particular one but just objectifying in general).



That's that old Atari game, right? The one that was also incredibly racist.

and this is the sensible reaction. for the longest time, when I pointed out to people that trying to change the subject in such threads was only helping the bigots, I gave people the benefit of the doubt. now I just call it like I see it, and every now and then someone stands up and says 'holy shit... I didn't think about it like that. I will try to be more sensitive to this stuff' which is the reaction I'd expect a decent human being to have.

but most of the time people just double down on the idiocy and confirm that the label I tagged them with was completely valid.

you're doing just fine.

 

[Freeman]

Well, so long as you're consistent in your own life about not complaining about anything at all since bad things happen to everyone, I guess you're entitled to your attitude. Just remember, you've got no right to complain about anything because bad stuff happens to other people over other topics.

Come on, when have I said people have no right to complain? I just think there are better way to handle it to actually get results. Since all this started things seem to only get worse and more heated.

Nope, you have to focus on the bad if you want things to change. Simply waiting is a fool's game that results in no change. If people just waited for the status quo to change on its own we'd be living in the world of 1865 or earlier.

If it's working keep at it, it seem ineffective to me.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't know of any that require the rape of a man no, but we were discussing in the other thread games that do portray rape/strong sexual violence towards males, I myself had a particularly nasty one that I suppose in a way could be considered rape.


Edit: again, any western equivalents? Japan and that sort of *culutre* seems like a different discussion and problem entirely

XStoryPlayer. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Tomohawk]

not saying the threats arent real but... Sarkeesian is pretty transparent with trying to get publicity... how blown out of proportion is this?

It would be pretty hard to blow a very real threat on your family out of proportion.

 

[Aquamarine]

not saying the threats arent real but... Sarkeesian is pretty transparent with trying to get publicity... how blown out of proportion is this?

Online death threats are always something we should take seriously, regardless of how serious the aggressor was in his intent.

She's already made the appropriate reactions to ensure her safety. In the end, the ultimate goal of Sarkeesian's project is awareness and I'm glad she's ramping up the publicity on her suffering. This is criminal activity, after all.

 

[Vice]

Come on, when have I said people have no right to complain? I just think there are better way to handle it to actually get results. Since all this started things seem to only get worse and more heated.

Things are getting heated because the side that has a problem with the way things are, are beginning to speak up more often. A debate results in change, not hoping that things will get better. If no one says they have a problem how will developers and publishers know there is a problem and how big it is? They won't.

 

[jon bones]

Because I think he is more intelligent than that, he is probably just being polite or doing what he thinks is right in light of the way she is treated by some people. Ashley Johnson is the reason Ellie changed based on what was said on the documentary.

Everyone who disagreed with the way this issue is being handled is quickly labeled as insane or someone who hates woman. Polarization seems to be the only way modern society reacts to anything. Being less self-righteous would help everyone, If I was sure I was absolutely right I won't even be discussing it.

how do people write this without cringing?

embarassing shit

Wow. Why were some of those people not banned?

god help the undersexed mouthbreathers who post stupid shit like that

i wish i was a mod

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

XStoryPlayer. I'm sure there are others.

K well I googled it, looks like porn. Not sure what I was expecting lol.

What kind of game is it? Just make your own porn(?) video game sim?

 

[plagiarize]

Come on, when have I said people have no right to complain? I just think there are better way to handle it to actually get results. Since all this started things seem to only get worse and more heated.

Ugly stuff being exposed is always going to be uncomfortable for people that didn't know it existed... but it needs to be done.

 

[Mysterious]

The gaming public -- and notably this forum -- has never been anything but classy in regards to Jade Raymond.

Wow. Why were some of those people not banned?

 

[HOMEBOY OVER HERE]

While I think that those engaging in this are deplorable and their behavior is appalling we shouldn't create a caricature of them. You don't need to be a fedora MRA nerd to be misogynistic. It is a prevalent problem and many different types of persons engage in it. Also pushing the "them" image away from yourself can make you lazy in examining your own behavior. It prevents an immediate defensive reaction when you are being called out for sexist acts and helps you learn.

Oh, I know you don't have to be a gamer nerd to be misogynistic. Most guys I know who are misogynistic fit into any and every ethnic background and come from all different walks of life. all types, caricatures from nerds all the way to hipsters.

 

[plagiarize]

K well I googled it, looks like porn. Not sure what I was expecting lol.

What kind of game is it? Just make your own porn(?) video game sim?

In the demo scenario you have a woman chained up in your apartment.

I didn't honestly play much more of it than that.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't know of any that require the rape of a man no, but we were discussing in the other thread games that do portray rape/strong sexual violence towards males, I myself had a particularly nasty one that I suppose in a way could be considered rape.


Edit: again, any western equivalents? Japan and that sort of *culutre* seems like a different discussion and problem entirely

Actual participation its hard to think of many, but tasteless depiction isn't hard. Her latest video is full of casual assault, sexual and otherwise

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Oh, I know you don't have to be a gamer nerd to be misogynistic. Most guys I know who are misogynistic fit into any and every ethnic background and come from all different walks of life. all types, caricatures from nerds all the way to hipsters.

Yeah really, pretty much any dude you could possibly ask knows at LEAST one of those guys.

Actual participation its hard to think of many, but tasteless depiction isn't hard. Her latest video is full of casual assault, sexual and otherwise

Yes but I can come up with multiple male equivalents for those, but the original post I responded to was talking about required rape of women. I didn't know of pretty much of any, but the examples brought up were seemingly just porn games for a weird market in Japan. I.e Games not well known and generally just considered weird by everyone.

 

[Buzzman]

Wow. Why were some of those people not banned?

NeoGaf was a different place back then, right there you can see the difference that highlighting these issues have made.

 

[googleplex]

Holy tapdancing christ.

HOLY FUCK. HOLY GODDAMN FUCK. You're a fucking banned user now, no doubt. I've been here long enough and been a mod before that to know your fucking fate is sealed now.

But before that point:


Did you actually fucking just imply in a roundabout way that a woman shouldn't dress that way if she doesn't want that attention? Are you fucking mad?

Protip: The reason you don't notice the offensive behavior to women is because you're part of the group causing it

I fucking love it when Aim0x losses it like this. Shit is so entertaining.

 

[Freeman]

How about this: positive representation of men vs positive representation of women.

That pretty much means games with good storytelling, there is no lack of people trying to do it. I fell like every year we have games that do it better.

how do people write this without cringing?

embarassing shit



god help the undersexed mouthbreathers who post stupid shit like that

i wish i was a mod

Some people have just no shame I suppose. Just as some people can have a discussion without finger pointing and name calling while others can't.

 

[harSon]

What a bunch of morally repugnant pieces of shit. It's truly amazing to see what shitheads turn to once their privilege is called out.

 

[Amir0x]

I fucking love it when Aim0x losses it like this. Shit is so entertaining.

i think i gotta stop posting in these topics though, giving me a migraine lol

 

[plagiarize]

That pretty much means games with good storytelling, there is no lack of people trying to do it. I fell like every year we have games that do it better.


Some people have just no shame I suppose. Just as some people can have a discussion without finger pointing and name calling while others can't.

Someone received death threats. Something which you don't seem to think is worth your attention nearly as much as people who only complain about one particular issue with gaming.

Again, if you act like a bigot would act, I'm going to presume you are one. I'll explain why I think that. I will stand by it.

You are in a thread about someone receiving death threats for voicing their opinion...

Yet you seem more concerned that people who are criticizing Anita's videos are being called names.

Think about that, and why it might look a certain way.

 

[Tomohawk]

Come on, when have I said people have no right to complain? I just think there are better way to handle it to actually get results. Since all this started things seem to only get worse and more heated.

If it's working keep at it, it seem ineffective to me.

It seems more heated, because now these things are being brought to the forefront and the opposition is lashing out.

 

[Aeana]

Wow. Why were some of those people not banned?

That was years ago. People are not permed for this stuff unless they are continual perpetrators.

 

[Buzzman]

That pretty much means games with good storytelling, there is no lack of people trying to do it. I fell like every year we have games that do it better.


Some people have just no shame I suppose. Just as some people can have a discussion without finger pointing and name calling while others can't.

Protip: Just because you're "calmly" discussing your opinions doesn't mean they can't be reprehensible.

 

[truly101]

Online death threats are always something we should take seriously, regardless of how serious the aggressor was in his intent.

She's already made the appropriate reactions to ensure her safety. In the end, the ultimate goal of Sarkeesian's project is awareness and I'm glad she's ramping up the publicity on her suffering. This is criminal activity, after all.

And the harassers that are so bent on "defending vidya games" will do far more to damn this hobby than any of her videos ever would. I don't get how they can't see it or they just don't care.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

I fucking love it when Aim0x losses it like this. Shit is so entertaining.

Yeah, sorry it has to be you Ami, but when you go off, it's pretty damn glorious.

 

[Riposte]

Read your comment. The reason people are self-righteous is because of the self-evident diarrhea splurging from individuals mouths like so many of these so-called "objective" gamers who just want to have a "discussion." Like this nonsense in your post.

That's really too bad, since it is the righteous nature that changes these criticisms into something I can find issue with, how it makes it different from just any other criticism of game mechanics or aesthetics you'd find on GAF, and, at times, pretty inconsistent or dishonest in how they come across. For example, while it is amicable (or patronizing) to say "We don't want to take away your videogames" (which I will take to also mean "We don't want to take away your themes/tropes"), given the stakes implied and what is being argued, if there is no compromise, that is exactly what many individuals are saying they desire and, most importantly, what is the only morally acceptable choice under these conditions. This can be dismissed with the improbability of having a capacity to (although denying having the desire to) eliminate all problematic examples or have them all filtered by what is considered acceptable justification, but a similar fate would be to have unyielding examples and their participants (creators and players) receive a lower status (e.g., "smut", "exploitation" film). In this case, the participants have every right to be defensive (not to give my support to how they choose to be defensive). Personally, I find a moral judgment that bypasses the quality of interactivity and atmosphere very problematic to how I envision videogame criticism.

Note that I'm not talking about Sarkseesian's videos, because there's only very little that says as much and her conclusions are hardly far reaching. The resentment aimed towards her is fairly pathetic (but then resentment always is) and shortsighted. All the worse that they are used to introduce more righteousness into the equation. Not to mention how people use that to link harassment of living women and the contested tropes found in games, very spuriously.

 

[jon bones]

Some people have just no shame I suppose. Just as some people can have a discussion without finger pointing and name calling while others can't.

i know, you'd think these manchildren would have some empathy for women and minorities but they're just too ignorant to even understand what it is to be a decent, thoughtful man

 

[Freeman]

Someone received death threats. Something which you don't seem to think is worth your attention nearly as much as people who only complain about one particular issue with gaming.

Again, if you act like a bigot would act, I'm going to presume you are one. I'll explain why I think that. I will stand by it.

You are in a thread about someone receiving death threats for voicing their opinion...

Yet you seem more concerned that people who are criticizing Anita's videos are being called names.

Think about that, and why it might look a certain way.

Unlike you I'm reading the thread and I moved past the first pages.

I don't think I said anything absurd and if I end up banned so be it. The subject interests me and I discuss it I see no harm in that.

I stated many time that criminal behavior like death threats is something I completely disapprove (like everyone should and most do) and its a police matter.

i know, you'd think these manchildren would have some empathy for women and minorities but they're just too ignorant to even understand what it is to be a decent, thoughtful man

I don't entirely understand what you are saying, but trying to guilt me with the minority talk not only makes no sense since woman aren't a minority, but also doesn't work for the simple fact that I'm part of multiple minorities as well.

Protip: Just because you're "calmly" discussing your opinions doesn't mean they can't be reprehensible.

Call me out on it then, I have no issues with that whatsoever. I'm not the one assuming that everyone who doesn't agree with me is mean or insane.

 

[soxinthebox]

I've somehow managed to avoid hearing anything about this whole gross thing until they discussed it on the latest Idle Thumbs.

That harrassment image Sarkeesian posted is absolutely disgusting and the people involved should be ashamed.

 

[njean777]

i know, you'd think these manchildren would have some empathy for women and minorities but they're just too ignorant to even understand what it is to be a decent, thoughtful man

You seem to really like projecting ad hominem attacks at people. That is not the right way to argue with these people, because you will lose and just become frustrated with the results.

 

[jon bones]

I don't entirely understand what you are saying, but trying to guilt me with the minority talk not only makes no sense since woman aren't a minority, but also doesn't work for the simple fact that I'm part of multiple minorities as well.

wait wat? when did we start talking about you? i thought this thread was about how disgusting "gamer" reaction is to a woman holding a mirror up to the inherent sexism of gaming

You seem to really like projecting ad hominem attacks at people. That is not the right way to argue with these people, because you will lose and just become frustrated with the results.

i dunno, i'm having a great time

 

[Freeman]

wait wat? when did we start talking about you? i thought this thread was about how disgusting "gamer" reaction is to a woman holding a mirror up to the inherent sexism of gaming



i dunno, i'm having a great time

I assumed you were ironically referring to me, my mistake then.

Women may be populous, but you can't say we aren't treated like a minority or are well represented in most media. In television that has changed considerably since the 90s, but most other forms of media are still lacking in that department.

I don't deny that. Thankfully great progress has been made in the past decades, unfortunately not in the entire world, I find it absurd that most countries are completely fine with maintaining relations with nations that systematically abuse woman and threat them as lesser citizens.

 

[plagiarize]

Unlike you I'm reading the thread and I moved past the first pages.

I don't think I said anything absurd and if I end up banned so be it. The subject interests me and I discuss it I see no harm in that.

I stated many time that criminal behavior like death threats is something I completely disapprove (like everyone should and most do) and its a police matter.

I did not say you approved or disapproved of criminal behavior. I merely pointed out that you seem to think your energies are BETTER directed at saying people shouldn't be called names for criticizing Anita since you have focused them more there, than on decrying the reprehensible behavior that she has been subject to.

Again, I am judging you based on the effect of your posts, not their intent. I can't pretend to know your intent.

I have kept up with this thread as best I can, but my day has not been conducive to keeping on top of every post.

I am responding to your posts. You keep talking about Anita's videos and you keep talking about how the people criticizing them get called names.

A thread about her receiving death threats is NOT the best place for those complaints. It belittles the much more horrendous and criminal acts she has faced for you to keep focusing your posts on the finger pointing and name calling directed at men who criticize her.

You keep doing it. So I've drawn the conclusion that you think it is a bigger issue that some men got called names than a woman receiving death threats, and from that I've drawn the conclusion that you are somewhat bigoted.

That isn't me calling you a name, that's genuinely how your actions have come across in my eyes. You haven't done anything to dispel the opinion that your postings in this thread have instilled in me, even after I've explained to you that your actions have made me feel that way, you have only continued to reinforce those feelings.

I've explained to you the harm in what you are doing, but you don't seem to care, or pretend not to see it. So be it. I'm sure you can live with me seeing you for a bigot.