The Librarian
Banned
Nor does it excuse it.
Tropes vs Women author Sarkeesian vacates home following online threats
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
- Status
Nor does it excuse it.
Ehh, I think you're taking criticism of games you enjoy too personally. Because it's certainly not just Sarkeesian criticizing games from a "moral" standpoint (I'm not sure moral is the right word here but let's go with it for now.) For example, in Mass Effect 1 and 2, female Shepard could have same-sex romances, but male Shepard couldn't. Lots of people felt this was wrong, and finally in ME3, male Shepard had two gay options. That's certainly not an indictment of people who enjoyed ME1 and 2.
And I think you're being scared for no reason. Games have gradually been changing for the better over the years. More thoughtful writing, better representation, stuff like that. You're not going to lose anything as the industry continues to move forward. We've got awesome games like The Last of Us, we've got female character models in Call of Duty, we've got playable Peach and Rosalina in Super Mario. Relax.
So what are you afraid of, exactly? Are you scared of the prospect of the next GTA not having women characters exploited and assaulted sexually solely for "grit" and "atmosphere"?
My grandmother watched Law and Order focused on sex crimes for like 2 hours a day for years. Public television ... mid-afternoon.
The writing in Rockstar games has already changed significantly to have better portrayals of women alongside their object status int he PS2 era. You're fretting over nothing.
Listen, if I started getting serious death threats about videos I'm posting, I'd stop posting them.
If she's strong enough to keep on going forward, then that's awesome and more power to her.
But she just has to expect that more shit talking and death threats are coming. And if she keeps posting more videos knowing that, I kind of doubt she's taking the threats very seriously.
The shitheads threatening to kill her are to blame, but it kind of comes with the territory of rustling feathers in any devoted community.
I used religion as an example. When you tell brainwashed people that their core beliefs are ignorant and/or wrong, they lash out. When you tell a bunch of game lovers that their games should change and/or morally in the wrong, they are going to lash out. I don't know what else to say. It is what it is.
So what is it that you want to have happen here?
Do you want her to stop making videos?
Do you want people to stop attacking her for making videos?
Do you want her to stop talking about people attacking her for making videos?
Where are you going with this?
I have to admit, if they took hookers out of GTAV I'd be annoyed. I didn't even pick up a hooker in the entire duration of the time I played GTAV now that I think about it (but did in all the others lol), but to start censoring games from stuff like that is bullshit imo. I don't care who it offends.
A strong female character that's well written? No problem whatsoever. I'd welcome it.
But if we start having the sexism police take the strippers out of Duke Nukem 3D, it would bother me. Maybe that makes me a misogynist, I don't know. I'm anti censorship across the board.
It has!?
real_slime
Banned
This shit is all so depressing. Anita's just doing interesting media criticism what is the big fucking deal? Hope things finally die down for her and she can just enjoy some recognition for the interesting videos she is doing. Although who knows how that's gonna happen, some people are hell bent on destroying everything to do with her.
Dastardly Jerks
Banned
Because most of 4chan/Reddit would be on his side.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Nobody's acting shocked that she's getting harassed, people are shocked that it's reached a level where she's had to flee her home.
Yea I've been somewhat disappointed with her output but she really nailed it with this episode. A must watch.
hurricanes
Member
So somehow this make sending death threats a OK thing to do?
Fake edit: I had a feeling you would be so banned while I was reading your first post.
Tye The Czar
Member
The "outrage" is no different to me than the Tea Party's vitrol soon after Obama was elected.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
You can appreciate why its different from her perspective though, yes? She doesn't have a secret service
hurricanes
Member
IMHO It's fine for a game to present rape/assault element as long as the consequences of such crime is also presented in game. The problem with most "rape" games we discussed is that they make it look like something absolutely acceptable to do. In fact, they ENCOURAGE such behavior, which is just wrong and disguising.
That we know of... who knows how much the nefarious reptilian games press is covering up.
Tye The Czar
Member
She might just need to if things get worse.
Or a PR team to field questions and weed out trolls. Once you realize that, you start to understand why she has to disable youtube comments.
I'm still flabbergasted that an ordinary woman making a couple videos on the internet generated as much hatred and malice from such a large group of people online as some polarizing political figure, or a movie star. I still can't wrap my head around it.
I was finally able to watch the video in questions and some of the videos she updated before.
All I can say is that she's doing great work and that what she's saying is obviously true to me. I hope she'll keep making these videos. We need to keep talking about these issues.
Writers in movies, tv shows, comics and videogames need to take notice.
Oh, and I still can't believe how far some people can go. To threat someone just for talking and explaining these issues about women portrayals in recent media?
All I can say is that she's doing great work and that what she's saying is obviously true to me. I hope she'll keep making these videos. We need to keep talking about these issues.
Writers in movies, tv shows, comics and videogames need to take notice.
Oh, and I still can't believe how far some people can go. To threat someone just for talking and explaining these issues about women portrayals in recent media?
There was that one crazy who tried to mail the Prez botulism toxin...
Professor Beef
Banned
Why does this phrase always bug the fucking shit out of me when it's said in Gaming side?
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'm surprised she hasn't had one already, based on the Kickstarter money she raised to fund these new videos.
Elaugaufein
Member
I think some (not all) of the things she points out are stretching to fit things into preconceived notions but there's absolutely no reason for the the hatred she gets or excuse for the way it manifests. Death threats and threats of sexual violence are completely unacceptable responses.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Because it's usually being said as a way to justify a game about scantily clad twelve year olds.
I guess this person's been banned now, but just felt the need to say, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum.
I'm not particularly a fan of Sarkeesian or religion, but there's no justification for "lashing out" like this, regardless of what you're talking about. Not to mention the fact that this is effectively comparing game lovers to extremists/zealots.
People only act like this when they're scared of losing their own faith, which just goes to show it's not strong enough. If you don't believe in the good of games, you'll take criticisms of games personally and often react badly as a result. If "lashing out" is your go-to argument, then it's fairly safe to say that you might not be intelligent enough to take part in the discussion, and should just go on enjoying games in your own way.
My problem is that strippers are too often just strippers. As though strippers can't be interesting people/characters too.
In any case... I am disgusted by humanity. I had no idea the problem was this big. Jesus christ.
Moff
Member
thats just sad. I dont always agree with her, but generally I think she does a good and important Job. "we" (as Gamers) can be glad that someone points out *possible* faults in "our" medium. It's not comprehensible to me how peopl can get so angry because of that to act like this and actually threaten her.
sadly though, ist not surprising at all.
sadly though, ist not surprising at all.
Yeah, because violence against women will go away if we all just close our eyes.
Same. He used to make really interesting videos about stupid shit creationists say, but I had to unsubscribe to his YouTube channel when I heard about his ravings against Rebecca Watson (from Skepchick and Skeptic's Guide to the Universe). Now he just looks like a misogynistic piece of shit.
I am really baffled about this uproar against Sarkeesian. She makes some good observations, even if in a bit provocative manner. Yeah, it's easy to find games that do not repeat these tropes, but Sarkeesian is bringing attention to what is wrong. She's not claiming to be even handed; every YouTuber in the world is free to provide counter examples or tell why Anita's examples don't really count. But getting all riled up about it? WTF!?!
I realize you're already banned but:
Sarkeesian videos or 'evil SJWs' are not trying to take those things away. There will always be juvenile lowbrow games with boobs. People are just saying that we should have a more varied pile of games to choose from since the audience is just not young men anymore. And that game devs should reflect a bit more how they're creating their games since they might be just recycling old, tired stereotypes, weak-ass stories and questionable design choice, as evidenced by the latest video which is the best of them by far.
Find me a single piece of Sarkeesian videos where she actually says 'these games need to be censored/banned'.
figadapaura
Member
Damn, I must have stopped paying attention during those parts.
Green Wiggly
Member
I don't really think it's a problem with the content in games either. As you said, the market is widening so the target demographic widens with it (and I think we're seeing this now). But there's this (now) niche group of people who are used to having their tastes catered to by game developers, and they're afraid of losing that (and they are losing that). So they get online and type up hateful shit and make threats to people, and the end result is that they just push support for their cause further away.
But yeah, it's not just gaming. Or the internet. People just seem to be unhappy in general.
What does this have to do with anything? A TV show focused on catching criminals is nothing like a game allowing people to rape others.
It creeps me the fuck out too.
scoobidoo112
Member
Speaking of blatant sexism in the media (0:32 - 1:49)
What a delightful and classy way to start your video!
"Barry, I hope you were zooming in to the boobs slowly, the entire time we did that"
I thought these guys were on the side of "let's do something about sexism", and they were recently rooting for and supporting Anita, so I am disappointed to see them do tactless things like this to make money.
What a delightful and classy way to start your video!
"Barry, I hope you were zooming in to the boobs slowly, the entire time we did that"
I thought these guys were on the side of "let's do something about sexism", and they were recently rooting for and supporting Anita, so I am disappointed to see them do tactless things like this to make money.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You going to tag all the other moments they make fun of or said "horrible" things about a game that's obviously pandering? This doesn't even have anything to do with this thread anyways.
scoobidoo112
Member
I was editing my post when you commented. Read again. They are supposedly on the side of fighting against sexism and voicing support for Anita while throwing tits into their audience's face to keep their attention. I thought it was incredibly off-putting and this was the best place to express that.
figadapaura
Member
scoobidoo112
Member
The game is ridiculous, yes. That is on the developers. I don't mind the Grumps playing it or making fun of it, it's just that specific joke and piece of editing that I found incredibly off-putting. I immediately stopped watching.
I agree with your opinion but this kind of treatment bothers me. Why the feminist side of this discussion asumes that they are the only mature ones?
Clearly I'm not an expert on feminism, I support inclusion and diversification of themes in videogames, but why suddenly I'm being called immature because I like GTA, Bayonetta, No more Heroes or whatever.
That never happened. In fac in each and everyone of Anita's Tropes vs Women videos she reminds you that you can still enjoy a thing while being critical on it.
figadapaura
Member
I'm a feminist and I enjoy/play GTA. I've played every one. They're not mutually exclusive.
Playing GTA doesn't make you immature. If you can understand the problems, criticise the game for these problems, and still be able to enjoy it, that makes you a mature person.
I think, to get very specific, that one could reasonably be called immature if they did not recognize the problems brought up by most critiques.
In this case immature wouldn't, of course, be an insult as much as an emotional expectation. A synonym for 'naive'.
You were wrong about this being the best place to express it, because it's wildly off-topic. If you can't remember what the topic of this thread is, feel free to scroll to the top and remind yourself.
I don't think anyone has to take it personally. I enjoy some juvenile stuff and don't think it means I'm particularly immature in of itself. That's the separation between enjoying something and still being able to see it for what it is -- I can't speak for GTA or Bayonetta since I'm not very familiar with either of them, but No More Heroes has potty humour, a protagonist whose primary goal in the game is getting respect and laid, and a PR tour wherein Suda 51 had toilets as a feature. It's still a great game to me because it respects it's protagonist, juvenile as he is, and builds a good story around him. It's juvenile, but that's not necessarily bad. In fact I wish that more games had a fraction of the ambition and writing of NMH.
Cymbal Head
Banned
In this context, it's because gamers tend to naively conflate voluntary changes to creative works made in response to thoughtful criticism with externally-applied censorship a la the comics code authority. i.e. they don't know what the word 'censorship' actually means.
That and the loli thing. Which I personally don't have a beef with, but it gets tiresome.
figadapaura
Member
Sure, I'd say most of the people who think the gaming industry has none of the problems Anita brings up are naive at best.
She's never condemned anyone for enjoying the games. You're allowed to have problematic favorites so long as you acknowledge they have problems.
Also, why is this some sort of competition in maturity? What does maturity have to do with any of this?
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll