I just can't.
Oh look another reason why games "journalists" will never be considered real journalists. Imagine Brian Williams complaining that people demand he be impartial despite not paying anything for NBC. (Damn entitled news viewers)
Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
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Oh look another reason why games "journalists" will never be considered real journalists. Imagine Brian Williams complaining that people demand he be impartial despite not paying anything for NBC. (Damn entitled news viewers)
I just can't.
Impartiality is paid DLC for games journalism.
That's a perfect comparison. They both rely on advertising to survive.
Really shows how embarrassing the comment is when you put it in complete context and imagine what an actual journalist might normally say about something like this.
You should visit some Football (Soccer) games. (Outside of the US with real fan culture)
BrassDragon
Member
Believe me, I fully understand how Ebert and Mossberg make money. My point is that the onus of them getting paid is not on me, the consumer of their content. Their value is drawing people like me to their publications based on their insight, experience and integrity.
I'm not paying for them to have integrity - I give them views because they have integrity of their own and their own core values lead to impartial coverage that I can appreciate.
I'm baffled this stuff needs to be explained to game journalists, honestly.
So all other sport cultures are not legit because they don't fit this model?
Interesting if true.
Yeah, no way to verify it's veracity unfortunately, but compelling if true.
No it's pointing out that extremist shouldn't color or dictate what a word means, I've seen reports of Futball games going horribly wrong in EU and other places. The one I can remember the most is this http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2013/07/06/soccer-referee-decapitated-brazil-stabbing-maranhao/2495199/ *NSFW* doesn't show any images but topic is bad. Still though this kinda thing happens more then reported in sports and other places, yet do you see mass media painting soccer fans as murderers?
And? Can you show me the major community following in support of the murderer?
Son of Cervantes
Member
Interesting if true.
No way that's true, lol. Reads like the fantasy of one of the guys stoking the flames on these issues.
Interesting if true.
We're winning? Against whom? It's like there's a war and I didn't get the memo.
Are the figureheads in gaming that made racist remarks and got away with it?
Gsak
Member
Rebuttal more like it.
Well for one they could "check their privilege" and not act all high and mighty.
You know, that's pretty much how people are responding to the "Gamer's is over" stuff, except in your case it's with sports. Kinda funny.
You didnt hear?
We called the UN but EA Veto'd.
No there is none and you know why? Because normal people condemn people for their actions separate from whatever they call themselves. Just because a racist/sexist/pile of crap calls him or herself a gamer doesn't mean all of the people are that and that anybody actually supports them.
But putting such negative connotations on a term that at it's core simply means, 'one who loves and plays games' generalizes everyone who considers themselves a gamer. Gamers are not some exclusive gang of troglodyte, social degenerate women haters and to demonize the term in such ways does nothing but create an even more toxic environment towards gamers who have not done shit. People get upset when insulted and lumped in with a group of morons.
All I am saying is that some of the articles in question could have better made their point without such generalizations and insults. That is where they are just plain wrong. Call out the individuals who have done wrong and go from there. Don't declare 'gamers are dead' and then go on to blast off every old stereotype in the book to describe the very audience that keeps the gaming industry afloat. It's absurd and they are not serving their own cause.
You know who else reported in mediums that rely on advertising to survive? (Radio and Televison)
Edward R. Murrow.
Walter Cronkite.
The press didn't apologize? The press reported on the story. And to be honest the details of this particular story made it look like, well, all allegations from both sides were true. Even after the settlement. Compared to what people are getting mad about today that almost looks like real journalism.
But the fact that the allegations had nothing to do with gaming, it was all personal life things. If allegations look true and several people then agree with them and that makes it ok to report on it, then guess what Zoe Quinn is easily able to be written about with no worries. Because hell who cares about ruining somebodies life when it's a guy.
It had nothing to do with gaming the same way the EA spouse scandal had nothing to do with gaming. It happened at the workplace of a game studio. Which AFAIK, has never been alleged of Zoe Quinn's sex life.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I just can't.
This type of nonsense is exactly what drove me away from these sites. Every time integrity comes into question these guys have to go on tangents about how their readership is so shitty and volatile and entitled and whatever else they can pull out of a thesaurus. Why are you even working as a journalist if you have such little respect for the people you write for?
Why should they care about this controversy? Is it going to affect the games they play?
K then Zoe Quinn sleeping with other devs and nathan grayson accounts for the workplace of a indie dev I mean she works at home right? So then why don't we report on her again? Or even better why didn't escapist even try to investigate the claims that Zoe Quinn maid against Wizardchan? They had no proof past her allegations, but they sure as hell wanted to report on it. That promoted her game btw. Or all of the tweets against TFYC which caused the campaign to screwed over for the longest time because of bad publicity. We can go ever further in that she with phil fish and others talked down a person who had a sexual harrasment claim against Zoe Quinn, without even trying to address it. So then why do all of these which are all bad things are not reported against her? I mean if a guy did ANY of those things or was even ACCUSED of those things the media jump down his throat in no time flat.
Stop with the double standards if you deem personal lives personal then don't witch hunt people for it, if not then you better be equal and write about all accusations fairly.
An employee suing the head of a gaming company for sexual harassment is certainly newsworthy and worth reporting. Of course it's in Brad Wardell's best interest for journalists to not report on that. It's fascinating to see people supporting his tweets while simultaneously calling for better game journalism. It's almost like some people just want to rage at Kotaku, one of the few gaming outlets that actually does journalism, instead of actually fighting for better reporting. Hmm.
I won't comment on the Max Temkin story, sorry. Not my place.
Did kotaku ever apologize? Ever? to Brad.
JesseEwiak
Member
If 90% of the interaction I had with my audience was comments either implying I was paid off, ignorant when it came to video games because I scored a game too high/low, or some sort of slur if I happened to be a minority or woman, yeah, I'd feel high and mighty compared to my audience.
Yeah, some of NeoGAF is better than that. But, no, the rest of the Internet is a cesspool.
Are you joking? Apologize for covering a story? I thought you wanted journalism, not sycophants.
Gsak
Member
Jason, a lot of people certainly don't feel that way. Not for Kotaku alone. Take a look on Twitter and #GamerGate and see for yourself.
Those are called trolls though, do you actually meet these people in real life who comment and question all the time on your work? I'd guess that you have met more friendly and accepting gamers going to various places in real life then what media let's people to believe.
The story hurt his career....and after all allegations where dropped you just find it right not to apologize?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
JesseEwiak
Member
Games press have friendly and accepting gamers they meet with. They're called other members of the games press and game developers.
Trolls or not, that's the reaction people in the games press I get, so frankly, again, yeah, I'd hate my audience too. I'm sure writers from Yahoo News feel high 'n' mighty when they look at the comments section as well.
I see a lot of people talking about boycotting Kotaku and emailing our ad sponsors or whatever, again not realizing that Kotaku is one of the very few outlets in this field that does real journalism. It's pathetic.
I don't think you understand what journalism is. A reporter does not apologize for reporting something true because it made a CEO look bad.
So you don't ever actually go out and meet new people past the devs and press....really? That's why you are starting to hate the consumers it's because you never try to meet with them.
The allegations weren't true though as evidence of the person dropping them, so then how is it reporting the truth?
I need to go to bed. I swear I thought I saw psychopaths.
What is personal about documents filed in a workplace harassment lawsuit anyway? And really, you're going for the "working from home means you're having sex at work" angle? I almost jokingly suggested you would go there in my last post, but thought it would be uncharitable.
So we're talking about what the media would do if a hypothetical guy hypothetically
-slept with game developers
-slept with "Nathan Grayson"
-made (false?) claims about a message board
-made negative tweets about a crowdfunding campaign
-hushed a sexual harassment claim against himself
Do I have that right? That last one might get some press at certain outlets. The rest of, well everything you said just sounds crazy.
The allegations were truly in a lawsuit. The "evidence of the person dropping them" was also reported truly. Though to be honest, that wasn't strong evidence that the allegations weren't true.
I'm super critical of Kotaku, but I still have a hidden soft spot for them somewhere, hoping they'll pull through.
If nothing else, I respect that Schreir and Totilo are actually engaging with us.
If I could ask for anything, it's just more even-handed approaches to coverage that show a wide range of gender and social opinions; some even ... believe it or not, critical of some aspects of feminism if there's compelling justification.
And it seems the Patricia Hernandez stuff is a pretty blatant breech of the ethics Totilo just outlined a week ago. So yeah ... that won't go away. And this is right after Grayson was the reason it was even mentioned last week.
I have other issues too, but I like that they're at least slightly heard ... occasionally, and they talk with us sometimes ...
But the truth is, you guys do have to do better still. Since I think you two are at least somewhat willing to hear that, I have some small hope.
Linking to Alexander's article on Kotaku though and featuring it prominently was really disappointing. I think Kotaku could be a beacon of hope if they wrote an opinion piece saying that they didn't agree with blatantly characterizing all gamers as horrible people. Yes, that means that you would have to actually criticize another journalist, instead of your entire audience. I'm certain it would result in some major blowback for you guys too. But ask yourself, is it right that you're scared to post a critical opinion of Alexander's article on the actual site? Scared because they would bully and try to destroy you guys? That's not right.
Your own twitlonger post would have been better if it was actually on Kotaku, for starters.
Jason, why did Kotaku write an article on the rape allegations against the Cards Vs Humanity creator, but not write about the allegations made against Quinn that she I. Abused mental illness (by trying to convince her boyfriend he was mentally ill) and II. The allegations made by Wozniak who is in the industry, and said that Quinn has sexually abused him. Phil Fish shouted Wozniak down, and bullied him on twitter to get him to shut up. Quinn + devs + journalists supported fish in this action.
Why is his allegation any less worthy of reporting then someone saying the Cards Vs Humanity creator raped them? At least with the Quinn allegations, both have a potential impact on the industry (in the sense that, it calls into question Quinn's credibility as an activist in the gaming industry for mental health and a member of the industry was bullied into keeping quiet about his claims he was sexually abused by another member in the industry). I would say an article on these allegations has more relevancy then the one on the Cards Vs Humanity one.
So why cover one story and not the other? Keep in mind, I do not care about who Quinn slept with, and do not think it's relevant and agree that it shouldn't have been covered. But under all the BS, there was some pretty disturbing behavior that I feel was overlooked by a lot of people of the press. And I don't understand why (when they write articles based on allegations in the past). I mean even if you don't want to touch the mental illness abuse allegation, surely what Fish + the devs/journalists did by bullying a member in the industry for coming forward with a sexual abuse allegation....was disturbing. Why isn't anyone talking about that?
Also what about this:
Why didn't Hernandez disclose this to her editor? Isn't this a conflict of interest?
I have been pleased so far with kotaku aproach of disclosure with Zoe's friend and patron issues. Sadly people are blinded by the initial narrative. Stay strong.
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