Can we talk about the apparent iCloud break-in?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think this post was mostly very good, with the exception of this part.

Even if these specific women had appeared nude in films, and as far as I know JLaw never has, I don't believe having given permission for people to see you nude in one instance means people have any right to under any other circumstances.

I do find it kind of funny that Kirsten Dunst was amongst the victims though, given you can just see her naked in Melancholia if you'd ever cared to do so.

This isn't the time for it, but I'd be interested to see a thread on here discussing people's view on sites that highlight and share nude appearances of celebrities.

Thank you for your reply. Yeah perhaps my wording was off. I agree that "having given permission for people for people to see you nude in one instance means people have any right to under any other cirucmstances." For a myriad of reasons -- 1. They are clearly separate instances of consent (one does not imply the other). 2. They were presumably compensated for the nude scenes but are not in this instance. 3. From what others report, these were clearly private photos not intended for public consumption. etc.

But part of me does feel that while they clearly did not have a right, the civil damages (e.g. "harm done") are somewhat mitigated compared to child pornography, which a vocal minority seem to feel are equivalent. If one of the artists had previously participated in consensual pornography (not that this is equivalent to nude scenes in movies), I would take from that evidence that they were somewhat okay with sharing images of their nude body in the past under certain conditions. This would indicate to me they are less likely to be traumatized by this event than an average child (the comparison I was trying to make).
 
You don't get to decide how a couple expresses love for one another within the private confines of their relationship.
I've myself done the very same thing, and I would react just like Jennifer Lawrence if someone had nefariously gained access to pictures & videos intended for my girlfriend (and vice versa.)

Most people would react with shame and anger, thats for sure. there is still a risk when using Digital to express your love, its up to the one doing it to decide if that risk is worth that.
 
Doesn't really matter what you're intention is.

Gotta understand that a lot of shitheads use the net.

If there's something really private, don't put it online.

No no I'm saying they didn't put them online to begin with. Their phones were hacked.
 
THat's not the lesson you should be taking from this. Switch to Android now, or all of your sensitive info will inevitably become public domain.

Nah, I like my Apple stuff. I'm also not convinced it really was a security breach on Apple's part, and I'm also not convinced Android is any better security wise.

That said, I don't store any sensitive info online anyway.
 
Let them go wild at the victims expense.

I understand your concerns, and it's a very legit one to have. There's a great possibility this could backfire. But they have to do something. They can't let these people affected by this just suffer through it without trying to take some action.

True, it's just that, even with all their trying these things are so easy to find. For everyone that gets deleted, people upload like 10. I don't know, must be quite the hassle.

I don't think deleting the tweets will cause this to get more exposure. "hundreds of pictures of naked celebrities!" is enough of a draw.

Twitter is simply doing their due diligence, but it's unexpected. I don't think they've ever done anything like this before.

Would twitter or any other website be in any legal trouble for showing these pics? I mean, as far as I know the only who committed a crime was the leaker.
 
No no I'm saying they didn't put them online to begin with. Their phones were hacked.
Ah right sorry.

But if this whole iCloud theory is true, the pictures were online. iPhones can be set up to backup everything and it looks like that's what happened.

It's just a theory though.
 
The latest theory seems to be that there was a group of hackers that traded these images over a long period of time. Supposedly the leaker somehow got his hands on them and decided to upload them publicly.
 
You are right in the sense that both victims of child porn and celebrities have had their privacy violated, and that they did not consent to the sharing of the photos.

But one similarity does not make them identical. Maybe to you it seems they are the same because you place a lot of weight on privacy, but let me outline how they are different.

  1. Children cannot consent to the original photograph either. Most of the celebrity photos were likely self-taken or taken with consent. In other words, yes the privacy of celebrities has been violated by the sharing of the photos, but the initial sexual act was likely consensual. This is a huge difference.
  2. Children are implicitly more vulnerable. Sexual abuse on children is one of the most universally reviled acts. Celebrities are largely adults, and while they may suffer embarrassment or even social anxiety as a result, the impact on their future lifestyle is likely less than a child suffering from sexual abuse (including child pornography). Society has generally agreed that the punishment should fit the crime -- read about the "glass jaw" argument.
  3. Some of the celebrities have consented to sharing nudity (or something very close) in other formats. For example, nude scenes in "artistic" movies or some of the fashion worn. I agree that's not identical to consent of sharing nude photos, but I think it's worth bearing in mind when determining the "intensity" of the privacy violation.
  4. In addition, it can be argued that celebrities are aware of the risk of nudes spreading. It's been well established that the public has a strong appetite for celebrity nudes, even at the expense of privacy. Assuming the original photos were performed with consent (as opposed to voyeur shots with a telescope lens or upskirts with a foot camera), the celebrities were aware of the fact that there is a chance they could be spread. This happens all the time with jealous ex's, but it could be as simple as losing the phone while past the lock screen.

Of course, the celebrities should have legal ways to seek recompense, which they do. And depending what's involved, Apple itself could probably have legal grounds for a civil suit. Maybe there's even criminal grounds (copyright? anti-hacking laws?) but I'm not an expert on that.

However, it is not equivalent to child pornography, and as you experienced above, to most posters may not even be comparable. The privacy concerns are secondary to the consent of the original act in my opinion. Unless the celebrities are also underage, but to my knowledge they were not (though I have not seen the photos myself or even aware of who was leaked).

And I agree paparazzi laws need to be reevaluated or enforced, but again it's not the same as child pornography.
I've been only comparing this to a particular set of child porn. Again, imagine instead of celebrity nudes leaking, it was pedophiles sharing leaked iCloud pictures of children being photographed at the beach with their kids in swim suits or other typical pictures like kids taking a bubble bath. I was never comparing this to children who were forced to be sexually active or directly sexualized in the taking of the photo. That obviously has a lot worse things involved in directly harming the child. Every argument seems to argue a point I didn't make.
 
I've been only comparing this to a particular set of child porn. Again, imagine instead of celebrity nudes leaking, it was pedophiles sharing leaked iCloud pictures of children being photographed at the beach with their kids in swim suits or other typical pictures like kids taking a bubble bath. I was never comparing this to children who were forced to be sexually active or directly sexualized in the taking of the photo. That obviously has a lot worse things involved in directly harming the child. Every argument seems to argue a point I didn't make.
You're missing the fact that these leaks don't involve anyone under legal age.

If these leaks involved children then it would be another issue completely.

Why even bring children into the mix when this leak involves only adults.
 
The latest theory seems to be that there was a group of hackers that traded these images over a long period of time. Supposedly the leaker somehow got his hands on them and decided to upload them publicly.
The idea of a hacker illuminati that swaps nudes of celebrities is pretty hilarious.

Being a celebrity must be weird. I can't imagine what it feels like to see thousands of people thirsty as fuck to see a picture of your bits.
 
I've been only comparing this to a particular set of child porn. Again, imagine instead of celebrity nudes leaking, it was pedophiles sharing leaked iCloud pictures of children being photographed at the beach with their kids in swim suits or other typical pictures like kids taking a bubble bath. I was never comparing this to children who were forced to be sexually active or directly sexualized in the taking of the photo. That obviously has a lot worse things involved in directly harming the child. Every argument seems to argue a point I didn't make.
Then that's actually not pornography
 
The idea of a hacker illuminati that swaps nudes of celebrities is pretty hilarious.

Being a celebrity must be weird. I can't imagine what it feels like to see thousands of people thirsty as fuck to see a picture of your bits.

I'd imagine that it would feel pretty creepy unless you're so starved for attention that you deliberately leak your own photos and sell your sex tapes to an adult entertainment company just so you can increase your time in the limelight.
 
I've been only comparing this to a particular set of child porn. Again, imagine instead of celebrity nudes leaking, it was pedophiles sharing leaked iCloud pictures of children being photographed at the beach with their kids in swim suits or other typical pictures like kids taking a bubble bath. I was never comparing this to children who were forced to be sexually active or directly sexualized in the taking of the photo. That obviously has a lot worse things involved in directly harming the child. Every argument seems to argue a point I didn't make.

Children under 16 (or 18 in different cases) are legally seen as unable to give consent which is why there are such strict laws protecting them. Adults can give consent but in this case they didn't. There are already laws that cover this particular breach of privacy with regards to adults and it has nothing to do with the sexualisation of children.

Why you're so fixated on that comparison I don't know...
 
I'd imagine that it would feel pretty creepy unless you're so starved for attention that you deliberately leak your own photos and sell your sex tapes to an adult entertainment company just so you can increase your time in the limelight.
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to imply it would feel good. Just surreal.
 
I've been only comparing this to a particular set of child porn. Again, imagine instead of celebrity nudes leaking, it was pedophiles sharing leaked iCloud pictures of children being photographed at the beach with their kids in swim suits or other typical pictures like kids taking a bubble bath. I was never comparing this to children who were forced to be sexually active or directly sexualized in the taking of the photo. That obviously has a lot worse things involved in directly harming the child. Every argument seems to argue a point I didn't make.

It still applies, as these are Adults that are looking at Adults (which can go from Sexual Gratification to just curiosity), is not the same when its Adults looking at kids with sexual gratification in mind.
 
It's a weakness in the "Find my iPhone" API which does not have protection against brute force:

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2014/09...aw-that-led-to-celebrity-photos-being-leaked/



Screen-Shot-2014-09-01-at-10.49.17-pm.png

Worth a read:
https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/506421890517200896
 
The latest theory seems to be that there was a group of hackers that traded these images over a long period of time. Supposedly the leaker somehow got his hands on them and decided to upload them publicly.

Yeah I read this as well.

These picture and video sets would have been worth exchanging between themselves for favours and other shit. Sort of building their own collections. As there is no way one guy could have gotten all those pictures by himself there must have been over 100 celebs folders in one picture I saw.
 
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to imply it would feel good. Just surreal.

Yeah I know. I get what you were saying. It definitely wouldn't be a good feeling. Personally I like having a middle ground of being important in someone's life but not being the center of attention, so if this happened I'd be pretty shaken.
 
lol at a few celebs calling their pics fake only to lead internet detectives to prove them wrong. (Victoria Justice, im looking at you)
 

So basically -

1. Somehow, some guy got a celebrity's email
2. He figured the email is probably the one they use for their Apple account
3. He used the (now fixed) "find my phone" exploit with the email address - and waited for it to work
4. Once he was in, he found other celebrities' emails. (The ICloud backs-up an address book?)
5. Rinse and repeat over a long stretch of time
 
The proof against the Buzzfeed guy is pretty weak. It's so amateur that there's no way that's him. The actual leaker and/or hacker is still elusive right now.
 
Things that happen to celebrities are inherently more popular than things that happen to non-celebrities. That doesn't affect the moral calculus of the underlying act at all.

I didn't say anything like that. I said there was no outrage on GAF when it happens to non-celebrities. On a story that got national attention and federal charges, there wasn't a big thread on GAF where people who didn't care were attacked more than the hackers, and people are being compared to rapists and child pornographers. All because it happened to some celebrities? Is that not weird to other people?
 
Children under 16 (or 18 in different cases) are legally seen as unable to give consent which is why there are such strict laws protecting them. Adults can give consent but in this case they didn't. There are already laws that cover this particular breach of privacy with regards to adults and it has nothing to do with the sexualisation of children.

Why you're so fixated on that comparison I don't know...
I'm not talking about laws.
 
Seriously?

She's a beautiful woman, so yes?

Btw, this is a great lesson to everybody to not upload very private pics of yourself on whatever server. If something can get hacked, it will get hacked (eventually).

These are the modern times we live in. I hope more and more people will understand why it is so important to fight for your right of privacy and why shady organizations like the NSA are such a bad thing.

This might "just" be a celebrity leak, but this could help spread the awareness to more important things (mass surveillance by the NSA for exmaple). If such a thing can be done by "just" normal hackers, immagine how many NSA members have already fapped to celebrity pics without anyone even knowing it or had access to similar delicate information.
 
It still applies, as these are Adults that are looking at Adults (which can go from Sexual Gratification to just curiosity), is not the same when its Adults looking at kids with sexual gratification in mind.
The only difference is what they are attracted to. Both groups equally care just as little about their victim's privacy or lack of consent.
 
Pepboy said:
Though I do find it odd that you seem so outraged but still seem to have viewed the photos...

I'm not outraged. I just thought it was ludicrous that because you have seen some of the actors nude before in film, that suddenly gives you a right to see them nude anywhere.

But part of me does feel that while they clearly did not have a right, the civil damages (e.g. "harm done") are somewhat mitigated compared to child pornography, which a vocal minority seem to feel are equivalent. If one of the artists had previously participated in consensual pornography (not that this is equivalent to nude scenes in movies), I would take from that evidence that they were somewhat okay with sharing images of their nude body in the past under certain conditions. This would indicate to me they are less likely to be traumatized by this event than an average child (the comparison I was trying to make).

Thankfully no judge would ever buy this as grounds for dismissal. You are (continuing) to compare apples and oranges. Stars appearing nude in a film for artistic reasons is ENTIRELY different than stars appearing nude (and in JLaw and Uptons case, much more than just nude) in private photos.
 
Pretty interested in seeing the pictures, but eh, it's wrong so not going to do it. Now I'm trying to remember if I ever did look at leaked pics before...
 
I'm not outraged. I just thought it was ludicrous that because you have seen some of the actors nude before in film, that suddenly gives you a right to see them nude anywhere.

Thankfully no judge would ever buy this as grounds for dismissal. You are (continuing) to compare apples and oranges. Stars appearing nude in a film for artistic reasons is ENTIRELY different than stars appearing nude (and in JLaw and Uptons case, much more than just nude) in private photos.

You continue to misrepresent my argument. How do you get "that suddenly gives you a right to see them nude anywhere"? In the original statement I say "I agree that's not identical to consent of sharing nude photos,"

No where did I claim that the judge should buy this as grounds for dismissal. Instead I explicitly said they have grounds for a civil suit. The points you have quoted are regarding the extent and degree of damages, not whether the damages exist (which I continue to agree that there is a very reasonable case that they do).

I don't even want to be comparing child pornography to this case, but found it ludicrous that people were making the comparison and was making a list of reasons why they are not comparable. One of those reasons is not just the difference in consent but the extent of damage.

You keep saying that they are different from consent, and I have agreed with you twice including in the original post. If you are incapable of recognizing that, I don't see any sensible discussion moving forward.
 
I didn't say anything like that. I said there was no outrage on GAF when it happens to non-celebrities. On a story that got national attention and federal charges, there wasn't a big thread on GAF where people who didn't care were attacked more than the hackers, and people are being compared to rapists and child pornographers. All because it happened to some celebrities? Is that not weird to other people?

I don't know what point you're trying to make, but using the number of posts on an Internet message board as a metric of anything other than what the people who happened to login to the board on a particular day are interested in is dumb.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom