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[Save 'N Quit]

I don't understand Waluigi fans.

At least Wario you can like in a sort of ironic way, but Waluigi is just plain unlikable.

Simple switch around that works the other way.

 

[SmithnCo]

Jimmy T with dancing cats in moveset pls

 

[The Great Gonzales]

That's entirely silly. Sakurai has trophies of characters from much earlier than Wario Land 4. Why wasn't Wario even considered back in Melee? He had several games by then and was a Mario series mainstay. Why is the only sticker from Wario Land just Tiny Wario? Why would the dev team say "oh, you want material? Here's Wario. Oh, and Tiny Wario." They wouldn't give him Mad Scienstein or Rudy the Clown or Captain Syrup or Spearmask or Spear Guy or the Black Sugar Pirates or the Ball Bunny or Golden Diva or the Genie or Hard Hat Wario or the dozens of Wario transformations/upgrades or Princess Shokora or Catbat or Spoiled Rotten or the Wario-Mobile or Cuckoo Condor or many of the different characters, enemies, worlds, bosses, objects, vehicles, weapons, etc. that have appeared throughout the Wario Land series?

Far more likely than the Wario Land devs not giving him that content is the idea that Sakurai didn't care to include it.

I share every one of your frustrations, but I think there's a big difference between a trophy or a sticker and a move. I can well imagine the developers saying, "we should get some Wario Land references in here, but it's not a very big franchise anymore, so let's restrict those reference to smaller things like collectibles. Let's save the really important stuff like his moveset for what's currently relevant - WarioWare." I don't like it either, but it makes sense to capitalize on what's big at the time.

And regarding the Shoulder Charge, I don't think it has to work exactly as it does in Wario Land. As long as it captures something important of the original move, then its fine. Consider this: say they made the Charge a B move where Wario rushes forward with his shoulder out, just like in WL. If they did that, the trade-off would be it it no longer being a kill move. But in WL, the Shoulder Charge is Wario's primary kill move. So by making it a Smash attack, they capture its being Wario's kill move, even if they lose its rushing aspect.

 

[Lunar15]

i didn't know sakurai hated yoshi's island too

Sakurai is Jeff Gerstmann confirmed.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Perhaps, but that's a stupid reason to keep a character out of Smash. Rosalina gets in, and Diddy Kong got in. Wario could have had as unique a platform game moveset as Rosalina could have.

There's no character being kept out of Smash haha. You're being ridiculous.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Why wasn't Wario even considered back in Melee?

How do you know that he wasn't?

 

[A Link to the Past]

But Rosalina's just as manufactured a moveset as Wario. It's got virtually nothing to do with any in-game depiction of her character.

Her Up B is based on the Star Launcher.

Her Down B is based on Galaxy's use of gravity in general.

Her Side B is literally taken from Galaxy 1 and 2..

Her B is based on her command of Lumas.

Rosalina is significantly more accurate to her games than Wario is to his.

But Mario doesn't need to grab a fire flower to use it. Aaaand he doesn't lose the power after taking damage.

That's a silly comparison. The movement pattern of the Fireball is the same in Smash and SMB. Wario does not have an attack where he charges forward, running, with his shoulder. Literally nothing save for contextual use as Wario-Man in Wario's moveset allows him to charge forward with his shoulder.

To call something a Shoulder Charge because he hits someone with his shoulder is the worst stretch I've ever seen.

 

[rawktapus]

I like Wario and Waluigi. A lot of their portrayals are funny, and they're a great throwback to vaudeville style villains. Overly theatrical, vain and incompetent.

 

[-Horizon-]

Boo. Ashley is the worst Warioware member.

Should have been Jimmy T or Mona instead.

 

[Spinosaurus]

How do you know that he wasn't?

He actually was considered. As a Mario clone.

Be grateful that didn't happen. :lol

 

[J@hranimo]

Off topic: One of my favorite things in the SSE is the friendship/team of Luigi, Ness and Dedede.

These scenes seemed to be the most fun.

I also liked Snake, Lucario and Metaknight together.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i want dr crygor as a wii fit trainer clone

 

[The Great Gonzales]

I like Wario and Waluigi. A lot of their portrayals are funny, and they're a great throwback to vaudeville style villains. Overly theatrical, vain and incompetent.

That's an absolutely perfect description - couldn't have said it better myself. If only Nintendo and Sakurai would stick to that, keeping the grossness subordinate to the overall character instead of making it the main feature.

The post I replied to suggested that Sakurai may have left a Wario Land-based Wario out of Smash because he didn't want more platforming characters. Would you just up and die if you paid attention to anything?

Don't let Beelzebufo rile you up, man. You don't want to get banned because of an argument about Wario.

 

[A Link to the Past]

There's no character being kept out of Smash haha. You're being ridiculous.

Confirmed: if I ask you a yes or no question, you will ignore it.

If I say something that you can't comprehend, you insult me.

So you're posting for no reason that involves good faith.

The post I replied to suggested that Sakurai may have left a Wario Land-based Wario out of Smash because he didn't want more platforming characters. Would you just up and die if you paid attention to anything?

 

[StreetsAhead]

Jimmy T with dancing cats in moveset pls

I want those dancing divas from his Game & Wario game in, too, then.

 

[Beelzebufo]

That's an absolutely perfect description - couldn't have said it better myself. If only Nintendo and Sakurai would stick to that, keeping the grossness subordinate to the overall character instead of making it the main feature.

That is a perfect description, but that really only works for the two when they're together. WarioWare Wario never seemed particularly villainous to me, he's just like this crass lunatic who tries anything to make it big. Everything about those games is just weird.

 

[Spinosaurus]

That's an absolutely perfect description - couldn't have said it better myself. If only Nintendo and Sakurai would stick to that, keeping the grossness subordinate to the overall character instead of making it the main feature.

Only his fart and butt scratch depicts his grossness in his moveset.
Theatrical and incompetent is a perfect description of Brawl Wario if you ask me. There's a reason he stands out from all the other characters.

 

[Masked Man]

wario confirmed for studly smash men

Spoiler

i'm still gonna do that, i swear

Spoiler

I'm still waiting!

Samus is an amazing character and ZSS is fun to play.

I've been really excited to try out the new-and-improved ZSS ever since I saw her at E3. She looks to be a real blast! Also, those jet heels <3

Off topic: One of my favorite things in the SSE is the friendship/team of Luigi, Ness and Dedede.

Aw, they're so cute! I'm admittedly going to miss these little moments in Smash 4/5. :'(

 

[Berordn]

Her Up B is based on the Star Launcher.

Her Down B is based on Galaxy's use of gravity in general.

Her Side B is literally taken from Galaxy 1 and 2..

Her B is based on her command of Lumas.

Rosalina is significantly more accurate to her games than Wario is to his.

Wario's choppy movement is based on WarioWare's animation style.

His forward Smash is based on his Wario Land charge attack.

His Side B is his now iconic bike.

His Up B is likely based on the Corkscrew Conk from Wario World.

His B is based on his characteristic gluttony.

His down B is based on his crass nature and is featured rather often in depictions of the character.

His Final Smash is a super powered version of himself which originated in the Wario series that he takes most inspiration from.

Rosalina has never done any of the things she's doing in Smash, outside of keeping Lumas around (which is still a pretty significant departure from her character, since she acts motherly toward them. She'd never force them on the front lines).

 

[A Link to the Past]

So what you're saying is that the Shoulder Charge not being accurate by any definition of the word accurate is okay because things that I personally don't care about are accurate?

Awesome news

It's utterly ridiculous how people look at "I want Wario to, like most characters in Smash, have SOME semblance of attempt to make playing as him feel like playing as him in the Wario Land games" and act like it's a confusing thought.

 

[Toxi]

Guys, if we're going to talk about accuracy to the characters' games, how about letting Samus charge in midair?

Seriously, it's kinda ridiculous how she's unable to do it even though other characters can charge their projectiles in midair and Samus has always been able to charge while jumping in Metroid.

 

[Beelzebufo]

So what you're saying is that the Shoulder Charge not being accurate by any definition of the word accurate is okay because things that I personally don't care about are accurate?

Awesome news

It's utterly ridiculous how people look at "I want Wario to, like most characters in Smash, have SOME semblance of attempt to make playing as him feel like playing as him in the Wario Land games" and act like it's a confusing thought.

I'm sorry, it's not all about what you want. To answer your original question, we can't all agree that Wario should get a new moveset.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Spoiler

I'm still waiting!

I've been really excited to try out the new-and-improved ZSS ever since I saw her at E3. She looks to be a real blast! Also, those jet heels <3



Aw, they're so cute! I'm admittedly going to miss these little moments in Smash 4/5. :'(

Yeah I somewhat mained ZSS in Brawl since they killed Sheik for me. Idk why but ZSS felt better to me as a Sheik main in Melee than Sheik did in Brawl. However the improvements made to ZSS in 4 make me pretty excited to use her. Depending on how she feels she might be my main this go around.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Now that I think about it, didn't we have this exact argument some time ago? I remember someone pointing out one of his jump animations being similar to this WarioWare: Twisted! artwork and people were flipping out.

Also, isn't his victory theme based off of Wario Land: Shake It?

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm sorry, it's not all about what you want. To answer your original question, we can't all agree that Wario should get a new moveset.

It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that you tell me that the Shoulder Charge is in, are proven wrong, and then say "well tough shit". I guess that's what I get for debating with someone who can't even get their facts straight.

 

[Benzychenz]

His games are some of the best out there, and he's fun to play as/has some good taunts. What's not to like?

Games being good doesn't make the character good.

I still hate all the Kong's despite Tropical Freeze being tits.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

Only his fart and butt scratch depicts his grossness in his moveset.
Theatrical and incompetent is a perfect description of Brawl Wario if you ask me. There's a reason he stands out from all the other characters.

That's true. But the fart is no doubt a major part of his moveset: because it charges up constantly, you're always aware of it, even if you're not using it. And I don't really see anything "theatrical and incompetent" about Brawl Wario - at least, not on the level of the way he gets tricked by the promise of gold into doing others' dirty work in Wario Land games, of how his greed drives him to invent a wacky device that malfunctions and gets him stuck in the TV in Master of Disguise, or his antics on the Mario sports games (which, true, also involve Waluigi.) Not to mention his trophy description in Smash 4:

EDIT: banned site, apparently. Anyone have the pic handy?

I think Sakurai definitely sees him as more the gross guy than the theatrical villain.

 

[Berordn]

It's utterly ridiculous how people look at "I want Wario to, like most characters in Smash, have SOME semblance of attempt to make playing as him feel like playing as him in the Wario Land games" and act like it's a confusing thought.

Nobody's saying that.

What we are saying is that Wario takes clear inspiration from his active series and has casual references to Wario Land to pay tribute to Wario's history. If that's not enough for you, then fine, but for many people in this thread they're more than content with Wario being depicted the way he is. The pushback here's all from you claiming bias.

Spoiler

I'm still waiting!

I'm gonna do it, I swear! But I'm gonna wait until I've got the game in my hands and the two other tournaments have had their time before assembling it.

 

[HiroTSK5]

Guys, if we're going to talk about accuracy to the characters' games, how about letting Samus charge in midair?

Playing brawl recently and I was so disappointed that she couldn't charge in midair. I know that's how its always been but it still feels weird.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Games being good doesn't make the character good.

I still hate all the Kong's despite Tropical Freeze being tits.

I think Cranky Kong would be a pretty great addition to the roster. Better than Dixie Kong, tbh.

 

[OricWindstar]

So, uh...how about that POTD? That's going to be a fun thing to see tonight.

 

[rawktapus]

That's an absolutely perfect description - couldn't have said it better myself. If only Nintendo and Sakurai would stick to that, keeping the grossness subordinate to the overall character instead of making it the main feature.

I think Wario' s grossness is pretty great, too. I love his portrayal in smash, and I think it strikes a good balance of gross and menacing. He throws his weight around in a lot of his attacks, but he also fights dirty. He'll bite you, run you over with his hog (complete with unique taunts just to rub it in), and, yes, fart on you. It's hilarious, and captures great parts of his personality from both series of games.

 

[-Horizon-]

So, uh...how about that POTD? That's going to be a fun thing to see tonight.

What we expecting?

 

[Dimitri LH]

So, uh...how about that POTD? That's going to be a fun thing to see tonight.

Were getting a Pac-man pic....I can feel it.

 

[SmithnCo]

Now that I think about it, didn't we have this exact argument some time ago? I remember someone pointing out one of his jump animations being similar to this WarioWare: Twisted! artwork and people were flipping out.

Also, isn't his victory theme based off of Wario Land: Shake It?

Yes, his double jump I think. And his win theme is Stonecarving City from Shake It.

 

[BassForever]

I have no problem with the way Wario was incorporated into Brawl, I just wish their was some kind of better visual indicator on the screen ALA Little Mac's KO meter as to how much gas Wario has built up for his waft attack.

 

[Beelzebufo]

It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that you tell me that the Shoulder Charge is in, are proven wrong, and then say "well tough shit". I guess that's what I get for debating with someone who can't even get their facts straight.

Wait, was your last post even directed at me? I honestly had no idea, because you didn't quote my post. But yeah, he has his shoulder tackle. It's his forward Smash.

But yeah, we can't all agree that he should get a new moveset. You got an answer

 

[MrSaturn99]

Much as I love the WarioWare cast, they'll probably never be playable.

Sorry, Mona.

 

[Sponge]

I think Cranky Kong would be a pretty great addition to the roster. Better than Dixie Kong, tbh.

Dixie and Cranky could be the last two DK characters added and I'd be content forever.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Nobody's saying that.

What we are saying is that Wario takes clear inspiration from his active series and has casual references to Wario Land to pay tribute to Wario's history. If that's not enough for you, then fine, but for many people in this thread they're more than content with Wario being depicted the way he is. The pushback here's all from you claiming bias.

...

Sakurai put a sticker, two trophies, and an alt costume from Wario Land into Smash.

For no reason, that one sticker is not any one character from WL besides Wario, it's just a different Wario.

Yet DK gets everything under the sun, and because Dixie or K. Rool isn't playable, "BIAS"

Yes, if people can validly claim that Sakurai has bias for "under-representation" (if Wario Land was as under-represented as DK is claimed to be, half of the content from all of its games would be in Smash), I will say that Sakurai is biased for completely ignoring the many kinds of content available that he could have included, and for not even including an accurate representation of what his Shoulder Charge should be.

 

[The Bankslammer]

wario waft is the most canon

 

[Chase17]

I'm excepting some type of menu. Set the bar low and I can't get disappointed

Spoiler

probably

 

[Spinosaurus]

Now that I think about it, didn't we have this exact argument some time ago? I remember someone pointing out one of his jump animations being similar to this WarioWare: Twisted! artwork and people were flipping out.

Yep. It's a really neat detail

That's true. But the fart is no doubt a major part of his moveset: because it charges up constantly, you're always aware of it, even if you're not using it. And I don't really see anything "theatrical and incompetent" about Brawl Wario - at least, not on the level of the way he gets tricked by the promise of gold into doing others' dirty work in Wario Land games, of how his greed drives him to invent a wacky device that malfunctions and gets him stuck in the TV in Master of Disguise, or his antics on the Mario sports games (which, true, also involve Waluigi.) Not to mention his trophy description in Smash 4:

EDIT: banned site, apparently. Anyone have the pic handy?

I think Sakurai definitely sees him as more the gross guy than the theatrical villain.

It's a major part of his moveset, but you don't see it often because of it having to charge. It's not really a move you tend to be aware of unless you want to go for the kill or pressure your opponent with if it's full. The Bike and Bire are more prominent moves.
Also it's not exactly easy to depict greed in a fighting game.

As for the trophy, do we even know if Sakurai wrote it? :x

EDIT: It's funny that you mention Master of Disguise because that's the one game where Wario is the grossest. lol

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh boy bashing WarioWare Wario time?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wait, was your last post even directed at me? I honestly had no idea, because you didn't quote my post. But yeah, he has his shoulder tackle. It's his forward Smash.

But yeah, we can't all agree that he should get a new moveset. I hope you got an answer

Awesome. I forgot that his Forward-Smash was a running tackle that allowed you to jump out of it.

Also, I know that being an asshole is clearly second-nature to you, but could you spend a moment of time not being that? Thanks. It makes it a bit easier to talk to you.

 

[SmithnCo]

wario waft is the most canon

I fear for this man's sanity sometimes

 

[J@hranimo]

3DS custom controls tonight.

 

[Troubled Bat]

WHAT HAS WARIO DONE TO YOU PEOPLE!

 

[The Captain]

I'm completely lost on this argument. For no real reason, Doc Louis will be a Little Mac clone? You've not shown me anything other than vets, and that's a rather silly argument because Doc Louis isn't a vet. With the exception of clones, most characters in Smash have a pretty unique moveset from one another. Your argument works for Chibi as well - Chibi-Robo could very easily be a boring character, or he could be interesting. You can't base a character's value on the worst-case scenario.

Shulk doesn't command the idea of changing movesets mid-fight. Honestly, if Sakurai couldn't do a mode-switching moveset for Doc that wasn't derivative of Mac, he's probably in the wrong job.

Finally, like I said, Punch-Out!! should get a second character before Chibi-Robo gets its first. People have been wanting Little Mac in Smash since before Chibi-Robo was even in development.

When I bring up veterans, I mean that in the past characters with a lot of potential, like Ganondorf and Toon Link, ended up being clones instead of using the source material for a creative moveset. While they're disappointing, I wouldn't go as far to say that Sakurai has failed as a game developer.
Changing movesets mid-fight has also already been done with Zelda/Sheik and the Pokemon Trainer, and is now removed.

In my opinion, I think it's more important to bring in unique characters from other series before going back and adding newcomers from already represented series. If you feel that putting more representatives into fewer series while still maintaining a variety of unique characters is the way to go, then that's fine. To each their own. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, and either way the game would end up being great.

Just curious, why can't you appreciate that we have Little Mac as a newcomer? He had an awesome reveal trailer, and has two unique palette swaps (wireframe and sweatsuit), as well as a stage in both versions.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Okayyy...

So anyway, assuming we know the starting roster now, what do you think the unlock conditions will be for the remaining characters?