Ouch. Good point.
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Boogie2988: I Am NOT A Bigot. Are You?
- Thread starter HUELEN10
- Start date
Ouch. Good point.
My sentiments exactly. GamerGate? Isn't that a website used to buy games?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
what the hell is a cis white male?
Everyone needs a #gate these days dont they? Everyone needs to identify themselves as discriminated against. Everyone needs to go on social media and make a right-on video.
Jesus. Ive not been following this issue and frankly im glad. Look - idiots online and in media will invariably say stuff that will piss you off. Doesnt mean to say you have to make a rallying call and get a support group to crush your oppressors. Grow a pair and focus on the very positive elements of the industry. Ignore the bad. Like a school bully, they go away.
Using 'bigot' in this context is devaluing the term to the point of 'why bother using it'. Youre not with us - against us = Bigot.
Jesus. Ive not been following this issue and frankly im glad. Look - idiots online and in media will invariably say stuff that will piss you off. Doesnt mean to say you have to make a rallying call and get a support group to crush your oppressors. Grow a pair and focus on the very positive elements of the industry. Ignore the bad. Like a school bully, they go away.
Using 'bigot' in this context is devaluing the term to the point of 'why bother using it'. Youre not with us - against us = Bigot.
It is, but reading this 4chan thing brings another question even more forefront to my mind -- what on earth is driving all the *effort* involved in these weird campaigns? what really are the stakes? who honestly cares if a so called "SJW" journalist said something you don't like? Who honestly cares?
I think I'm too old for all this shit.
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Half the problem is everybody seems to have their own interpretation of what that word means, like fedora, hipster and now gamer. Is it an ironic label about exaggerated stereotypes who preach the death of all white/male/cis people? Or is it a banner to rally behind for equality?
The drawback of the internet still being somewhat of a wild west is there's never a consensus on this sort of thing, and while I don't think both sides are equally right/wrong here like some people are arguing (I think the majority of the Quinnspracy stuff was pretty abhorrent), if people used these meme-words less there'd be less misunderstandings about who's been accused of what here.
charlequin
Banned
Mostly I feel deeply, deeply ashamed that I've spent so much time choosing to identify myself with a name that these people feel like they have some measure of ownership over, and embarrassed that you're trying to peddle that Internet Aristocrat garbage in here as reasonable and well-researched.
That's the thing. People make sweeping generalizations about "gamers" all day. Constantly. In every thread on this forum, even, it feels like. And yet none of it will come to mind the next time someone meets someone who calls themselves a "gamer." These generalizations tend to not transform into stereotypes. It's a weird thing to be upset about now considering how prevalent it is and has always been, and despite the regular person's view of gamers not really being affected by it.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Imru al-Qays;128395304 said:
/clap
Never understood this type of argumentation. Why do I have to do this? Why can you not give me the benefit of the doubt. Until I do something that makes you think I'm a terrorist (or in this case sexist pos), assume I'm just like you.
Thank you boogie for making this video. This echoes my thoughts perfectly.
The amount of hatred and vitriol pointed toward gamers (specifically male gamers) has reached disgusting levels. I'm glad that people are starting to stand up to this revolting trend.
Never make general statements about people. This lead to many tragedies in the past, and we should all learn from past mistakes.
The amount of hatred and vitriol pointed toward gamers (specifically male gamers) has reached disgusting levels. I'm glad that people are starting to stand up to this revolting trend.
Never make general statements about people. This lead to many tragedies in the past, and we should all learn from past mistakes.
Imru al-Qays;128395304 said:
I agree with this. Not only can so much be done, but it doesn't even accomplish the idea of distancing yourself. And it is precisely because of this that all people should be given the benefit of the doubt. That people shouldn't be assumed to be a bigot because they identify with a term that means they enjoy videogames.
It is literally no different than assuming someone supports gang violence because they listen to rap.
This is only somewhat tangentially related to this whole thing, but can I just say that the word "gamer" is a stupid term and always has been a stupid term? It's bullshit PR speak used to try and identify and categorize people into groups; to make sure their products are "for the gamer" and "gamer friendly". It is used to make a demographic of people, people they want to ceaselessly sell things to mind you, feel special. It's a stupid label on people and like all labels, I feel it it something people should just let go of. I know not everyone shares this opinion but I don't like the idea of having words identify and label me as something. I'm not a gamer. I'm me. I'm making games for people. Not gamers.
I can understand why some people like identifying with the term though. It's the same reason anyone likes identifying with any group. But all the same, I really wish it (among other labels) would really just die.
I can understand why some people like identifying with the term though. It's the same reason anyone likes identifying with any group. But all the same, I really wish it (among other labels) would really just die.
It also doesn't help that this "gamer" culture has been constantly ridiculed and derided over the years in all forms of media - for some people, this is the last straw, and even if they don't fully understand what the fuck is going on here with this shitshow on all sides, they see people shitting on 'gamers' and they have had it up to here - since before it was just media shit that was like small jabs at those mom's basement WoW playing neckbeards - and now they're seeing people shit on their subculture in realtime on twitter and on blogs and in news sites.
It's funny, I hate the word 'gamer' myself. I think it's fucking stupid and has been turned into a label for people especially susceptible to ridiculous marketing schemes, but I understand many people identify as such and that I'm in the vast minority.
It's funny, I hate the word 'gamer' myself. I think it's fucking stupid and has been turned into a label for people especially susceptible to ridiculous marketing schemes, but I understand many people identify as such and that I'm in the vast minority.
CambriaRising
Member
This is all so tiring. I think I'll call myself a penguin from now on.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I would be lying if I didn't say this all is pretty new to me. But at the end of the day, I'm just an individual playing games. At the end of the day, for me, this really isn't about games. It is about society as a whole. Years ago I stopped telling people that I played games because it automatically summoned X stereotype, I'm sure as shit not going to tell people now.
Shit isn't hard. Gamer, someone who plays games. Bigot, someone who is prejudiced against X/Y/Z.
And I get angry knowing that every minute you spend researching this is a minute you aren't spending on finishing Ghost Song.
Imru al-Qays;128395304 said:
very good point. the religion of Islam is something where "#notallmuslims" is actually the exact opposite of the situation we got here.
i do believe the difference is that while muslims are receiving actual harassment and abuse for being of the same belief as those that claim to base their terrorist activity on said religion, gamers here don't seem to be feeling any impact other than the reputation of their hobby being tarnished.
so i do believe - while structurally comparable - these 2 situations are vastly different considering the effects the "generalisation of an entire community". i don't think gamers are having a super hard time right now.
John Rabbit
Banned
yeah, not really. parody can be a form of criticism.
cis is short for cisgender, which means anyone who's birth gender matches their assigned sex. the reverse being transgender wherein one's gender does not match their assigned sex.
from my perspective, the term "cis white male" is typically used to connote a heterosexual cisgender white male, despite the fact that being cisgender has nothing to do with sexual preference. it's more or less shorthand for referring to the dominant male power structure of society, which is ostensibly enforced by and comprised of mostly heterosexual white men.
I just spent 14 hours straight finishing one character's animation sheet and was winding down for bed. And this is how I wind down. XD
InternetAristocrat profiting from videos about the shoddy journalism of others, while doing shoddy journalism. The irony I can't even...
The relationship between the two groups has been strained for a lot longer. Realising that the press, had drifted from the consumer's side to the developer's side was a long and slow process.
What really reflects badly on the industry and community (as it should) is that we put up with it for so long and refused to talk about it until people decided to lynch Quinn. After years of shit piling up it's petty shit like that that got the ball rolling.
HUELEN10
Member
For the people on /v/, it's the different things for different people, but the main motivation for many is to stop what a lot of those same people feel is the "corrupted joke of an industry that is games journalism" once and for all and expose some corruptions. A lot of these people want to stop conflict of interests and whatnot.
What is at stake, to some of the people on /v/, is not just the existence of an open and honest industry, free from drama and free from things like, for example as this was one of the hot topics on /v/ a few days ago, the whole ignoring the rape of Eron Gjoni, while promoting other articles (touched a bit in the 2nd Quinnspiracy Theory vid), but simply making games about games once more, without drama, without special interests, without corruption and without double-standards.
To some of the people of /v/, that is what is at stake. I am not saying every one thinks the same things, but this is one of the scenarios that some of the people on /v/ see.
As for myself, personally, one of the things the interests me about all this is what happened a few days ago where a gorllion articles from independent blogs about a single issue dropped on the same day. I need to do more of my own research before forming an educated opinion of course, but what I know at the moment seems to be fishy to me.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I'm a Republican, but I'm not that kind of Republican.
John Rabbit
Banned
i'm sorry the what of Eron Gjoni?
I don't think it should matter what 4chan says to be honest. It never meant much in the past.
the internet aristocrat is one of the most hateful mean-spirited pseudo-rational youtubers i could think of. he makes me sick to my stomach and i feel sad that you feel the need to refer to his videos.
He's like the evil twin opposite of CGPgrey
If this is so bad, stop being a gamer and get another hobby. How about...a football fan. They sure dont have any negative stereotypes thrown at them - just go easy with all those beers and pies you thug! Or how about reading - you nerd. Or cooking - bit gay that, watch you dont burn your biscuits! Or fashion design...
All hobbies can have negative connotations when used on a broad level or by idiots.
All hobbies can have negative connotations when used on a broad level or by idiots.
LightofRohan
Member
I'm just so fuckin sick of this entire discussion. It was interesting and helpful a year or two ago, now its just getting out of hand and exhaustive. I wish I could just block all discussions about this crap from every place I visit... It is never ending and tears communities apart.
FF Seraphim
Member
Well you got to admit the article could of been better written...
Nein!
If you turn off your brain a bit, /v/'s vision of a dramaless world of real vidyagames is pleasant. But then you realize they refuse to acknowledge that Gone Home is a game, and blame Polygon's 6/10 review score on Feminazis (despite the review critisizing it's repetitive and grindy nature.) And a whole bunch of other insane ideologies.
I hope they successfully fund that game jam though, that'd be fun to see.
I hope they successfully fund that game jam though, that'd be fun to see.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I like that he mentioned disabilities among the other diversity categories. It's always struck me as incredibly ironic that even may people who demand diversity will wind up forgetting about, or in some rare circumstances even actively excluding, people with disabilities, which is unfortunate because it's one of the few diversity categories that would actually impact a game's narrative and potentially even how a game with such a character would play.
People with disabilities, particularly people with very specific mental or neurological disorders, are pretty much following the standard rights activism path, but lagging behind by a few decades. For example, "homosexuality" used to be viewed as a disease that could be cured by religion. Obviously those days are mostly behind us by now, but disorders like autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and PDD-NOS are still being viewed as diseases that need cures, even as many, many (though admittedly not all) people with these disorders say that they would never want such a "cure".
This "lagging behind" in rights activism means that many people, even those who want diversity, overlook this particular significant portion of the video game-playing population, so I really appreciate that Boogie called out to the disabled gamer population while so many other inclusion activists overlook them.
People with disabilities, particularly people with very specific mental or neurological disorders, are pretty much following the standard rights activism path, but lagging behind by a few decades. For example, "homosexuality" used to be viewed as a disease that could be cured by religion. Obviously those days are mostly behind us by now, but disorders like autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and PDD-NOS are still being viewed as diseases that need cures, even as many, many (though admittedly not all) people with these disorders say that they would never want such a "cure".
This "lagging behind" in rights activism means that many people, even those who want diversity, overlook this particular significant portion of the video game-playing population, so I really appreciate that Boogie called out to the disabled gamer population while so many other inclusion activists overlook them.
Wow.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Isn't that how this normally goes though?
It all starts well enough in the beginning, then you end up with a situation later on and you aren't quite sure how you got there.
You can't fix a systemic problem by scaring individuals out of the industry. Not to mention as Jenn elaborated on her blog, she did declare her conflict of interest in that case and the newspaper editor/legal team cut it out.
HUELEN10
Member
Again, I am still trying to check and double check things for research as, truthfully and this is me and my own personal opinion here, there is a lot of stuff going around and happening, and it can be overwhelming. The stuff I have read from some of the points raised checks out with what I've checked. Does this mean I agree with this, or any other guy or groups views all the time/none of the time? Of course not, I am trying to learn more from as many sources as I can. Some of this stuff is serious, and it's the reason why I haven't done any stuff like tweet these hashtags or sign petitions or whatnot: I want to be as informed with this as I can.
What do you recommend as a primer to those who are just learning about some of these happenings? I think it would be great if someone could post a catch-up vid series that might be a little less emotional.
Hot Coldman
Banned
It's a pedantic point, but if it results in people getting grossed out by GmrGt, then I'll push it. Because no-one should be using it. Fuck hashtags in general, to be frank, but these are particularly narrow-minded.
The guy you linked to is an absolute shithead.
Eron and Zoe agreed on the idea that if their partner were to cheat on them, and then had sex with them, it would be considered rape because they would not consent if they knew.
Then, well, y'know.
Agreed. This whole argument is stupid and I'm surprised it's been going on this long.
#notallpenguins
DICKS AHOY
Banned
but what will reddit and by extension the internet use for their memes now
I mean yeah, Quinn doesn't come out of this looking good either (though she's definitely more of a victim than her ex who went about this the wrong way), but part of the problem is we shouldn't have known about any of her cheating in the first place. It's not our business, and the claims it tied into positive reviews for game you can get for free anyway amounted to one mention a list of 50 different Greenlight games once. There are far better ways to warn select people you think may have been under threat of getting emotionally manipulated by her than misconstruing or outright lying about the connections she had to everybody on a public blog.
the Quinn videos are gross beyond words
"but simply making games about games once more, without drama, without special interests, without corruption and without double-standards."
what this really means is: keep making games that feature 98% white males as protagonists and any attempt at inclusiveness of other races, genders, and orientations will be met with pitchforks and "sjw pandering influence in mah vidya gamez".