Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.

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Maidan wont be needed, he pledged new elections for October.

Truce without further land loss is probably better for now, some peace for civilians and rest for soldiers. In the meantime, hardware and supplies needed for the army slowly arrive.
 
MonsterHunter said:
Maidan wont be needed, he pledged new elections for October.

Truce without further land loss is probably better for now, some peace for civilians and rest for soldiers. In the meantime, hardware and supplies needed for the army slowly arrive.
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I may be wrong about this - but the October elections are for the Parliament / Rada rather than the president. Depends who the people blame I guess.

Seems like from the Russian side the story comes out more in line with the no russian involvement point of view.
Mr Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told Russian news agency Ria-Novosti: "Putin and Poroshenko did not agree a ceasefire in Ukraine because Russia is not party to the conflict, they only discussed how to settle the conflict."
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from the updated BBC story.
 
crayman said:
Seems like from the Russian side the story comes out more in line with the no russian involvement point of view.

"Mr Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told Russian news agency Ria-Novosti: "Putin and Poroshenko did not agree a ceasefire in Ukraine because Russia is not party to the conflict, they only discussed how to settle the conflict."
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dont_believe_you_anchorman.gif
 
I'm sad to say a ceasefire is good news. In spite om myself I hope it gets done. It's a bit contradictory, I know, but right now it's the best option out of two terrible ones. A ceasefire would almost certainly mean that the Donbass is lost but carrying on the conflict would jeopardize everything east of the Dnepr, maybe even Odessa. Ukraine is losing. They went all in with their assault and didn't just get stopped, they got pushed back hard. The Ukrainian military is spent. If Russia invaded full-scale tomorrow Ukraine wouldn't be able to even slow them down before they got to Kiev.

Ukraine can't engage in a total war over this, their economy is in free fall as it is even with EU and IMF support. If they start a mass conscription it could implode completely. They played their hand and lost. I fully support their decision to move in militarily against the separatists and in retrospect I wish they had done so earlier and with greater force, that way they might have been able to nip this in the bud even with Russia supporting the seps the way they have. Then again Russia might just have invaded anyway, so it's possible Ukraine never really had a chance.

I guess Russia gets its buffer zone after all if that's the case. Even with the rest of Ukraine fully aligned with the EU and NATO, a separatist controlled Donbass would both leave Ukraine severely degraded economically and provide Russia with a staging area within Ukrainian territory. This basically means that Ukraine is strategically neutralized. With a frozen conflict in the country I can't see NATO ever accepting them as a member either, it's too great a risk for too little gain. It's basically Georgia all over again.
 
Uzzy said:
Syria almost got bombed by the US for using chemical weapons against civilians. Surprisingly enough, normalising the use of chemical weapons is not a very good thing.
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Another version: Syria didn't want to give their oil fields to US but was ready to give them to RU companies. For that, US facilitated the civil conflict and supplied the rebels with weapons. Chemical stuff was a play carried out by US-related-agents to provide a reason for a bombing operation.

I'm not 100% believe in it. But, I think, that Assad is not that stupid to give to US a reason (usage of chemical weapon against rebels) for a bombing. The truth... may be we will never know it. Again, this information war sucks.

MacNille said:
You got to be a troll or just loves Putin so much. Syria is not a free country. It is run by a military dictatorship. And just look at the rest of Russia allies. How much better are they? Or look at the allies in the cold war. There is a reason why most if not all of Eastern Europa HATES Russia today. They buttfucked the region for over 40 years.
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No, I'm just giving an another opinion. I do not know why you think that Eastern Europe hates russians. I've been a lot to Finland, Estonia, Sweden... no hate or any biased treatment that I noticed. What presidents or other officials say on TV - it does not characterize the actual attitude of local folks to other country. If you start hating all russian because of TV news about Putin. I think that this is wrong.

About other allies... Allies in this world are not the "friends" but the financial partners. The financial ties between Europe and US are much stronger than between Europe and Russia, so, Europe is biased towards US. Just like Japan and Australia. Again, this is not because US - is good and RU - is evil, it is all about mutual financial benefits.

Peace, man.
 
Outcome said:
Another version: Syria didn't want to give their oil fields to US but was ready to give them to RU companies. For that, US facilitated the civil conflict and supplied the rebels with weapons. Chemical stuff was a play carried out by US-related-agents to provide a reason for a bombing operation.

I'm not 100% believe in it. But, I think, that Assad is not that stupid to give to US a reason (usage of chemical weapon against rebels) for a bombing. The truth... may be we will never know it. Again, this information war sucks.
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I think you mis-clicked your PrisonPlanet tab, bro.
 
Outcome said:
No, I'm just giving an another opinion. I do not know why you think that Eastern Europe hates russians. I've been a lot to Finland, Estonia, Sweden... no hate or any biased treatment that I noticed. What presidents or other officials say on TV - it does not characterize the actual attitude of local folks to other country. If you start hating all russian because of TV news about Putin. I think that this is wrong.

About other allies... Allies in this world are not the "friends" but the financial partners. The financial ties between Europe and US are much stronger than between Europe and Russia, so, Europe is biased towards US. Just like Japan and Australia. Again, this is not because US - is good and RU - is evil, it is all about mutual financial benefits.

Peace, man.
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Dude, I live in Sweden and I can tell you this. A lot of us don't trust or like Russia or Putin. We and Finland are not part of Eastern Europa at all. T
 
Back in April looking ahead to September I thought this all would've been resolved by now. If you asked me now how long it'll take. My answer is no idea
 
Outcome said:
No, I'm just giving an another opinion. I do not know why you think that Eastern Europe hates russians.
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How about 50 years of de-facto oppression and occupation? Politically and nationally motivated cleansing? Constant poverty for pretty much every citizen, especially when compared to Western countries?

Seriously, how can you think that anyone from Europe can look at Abkhazia, Transnistria, South Ossetia, Chechnya or Eastern Ukraine and say 'Yes, this truly is something I would like to see happen in my country'?
 
Putin just asked the rebels to agree on a ceasefire. There is a meeting for friday in which it is expected that a ceasefire deal will be signed ( he said he expects it and there were rumours from the meeting a few days ago that one was on the table and that's why another meeting was scheduled so soon). He really doesn't want that new round of sanctions to take place.
 
SymbiantXenos said:
News just in that France won't be delivering the Mystrals at all.

Good good
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Yeah, thank god, delivering warships to Russia in times like these would have been pants-on-head retarded. I understand the struggling French industry is going to take a hit because of this, maybe the EU/NATO can purchase the ships as part of the new European rapid response force.

I believe delivery of the blueprints and the knowhow required to build new ships (in Russia) was included in the deal as well. That's probably on hold too.
 
Sounds like Putin is pretty close to backing down. All that's left to decide is exactly what the rebels and Russia will get out of this in the end. My guess is absolutely nothing except egg on the face.
 
SymbiantXenos said:
News just in that France won't be delivering the Mystrals at all.

Good good
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"The President of the Republic declared that, despite the prospect of a ceasefire which still remains to be confirmed and implemented, the conditions for France to deliver the first warship are not to date in place," Francois Hollande's office said in a statement.
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However expert Philippe Migault, from the French think tank IRIS (Institute de Relations internaionales et strategique) told The Local he was not convinced the deal will be pulled.

"It's like any diplomatic statement, in that its almost certainly been given just to send a message to the French public and to France's allies to show that this deal is not done and all options are still possible," he said.
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http://www.thelocal.fr/20140903/france-again-weighing-warship-with-russia
 
Yeah it's all politics now. Those ships will be delivered in six months/ years time when things have settled down. Notice that France says the delivery has been "Suspended" but didn't say if it was permanent or not.
Anyway you can bet your arse a deal will be signed on friday.
 
Outcome said:
Another version: Syria didn't want to give their oil fields to US but was ready to give them to RU companies. For that, US facilitated the civil conflict and supplied the rebels with weapons. Chemical stuff was a play carried out by US-related-agents to provide a reason for a bombing operation.

I'm not 100% believe in it. But, I think, that Assad is not that stupid to give to US a reason (usage of chemical weapon against rebels) for a bombing. The truth... may be we will never know it. Again, this information war sucks.


No, I'm just giving an another opinion. I do not know why you think that Eastern Europe hates russians. I've been a lot to Finland, Estonia, Sweden... no hate or any biased treatment that I noticed. What presidents or other officials say on TV - it does not characterize the actual attitude of local folks to other country. If you start hating all russian because of TV news about Putin. I think that this is wrong.

About other allies... Allies in this world are not the "friends" but the financial partners. The financial ties between Europe and US are much stronger than between Europe and Russia, so, Europe is biased towards US. Just like Japan and Australia. Again, this is not because US - is good and RU - is evil, it is all about mutual financial benefits.

Peace, man.
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There will always been insane crackpot theories and that is exactly what you just posted. This "information war bs" that your posting is just a massive false equivalency. There are facts and then there are conspiracy theories.
 
pulsemyne said:
Yeah it's all politics now. Those ships will be delivered in six months/ years time when things have settled down. Notice that France says the delivery has been "Suspended" but didn't say if it was permanent or not.
Anyway you can bet your arse a deal will be signed on friday.
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Yup, it's probably a bargaining chip. It's just interesting that did it now after holding out for months with no suspensions or even considering it.
 
Do people not realize that the #1 producer of natural gas and oil isn't in the Middle East or Russia or South America? It's us, right here, USA. Hell, Texas alone is about to surpass Saudi Arabia in barrels per day. The days of us going to war over an oil field or two are over.
 
Crisco said:
Do people not realize that the #1 producer of natural gas and oil isn't in the Middle East or Russia or South America? It's us, right here, USA. Hell, Texas alone is about to surpass Saudi Arabia in barrels per day. The days of us going to war over an oil field or two are over.
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Don't believe this bullshit lol the multi national oil companies will always find ways to increase profits by expanding in areas that they weren't in. Also being the biggest oil producer has done fucking nothing for the country... It hasn't decreased the price and they ship out whatever they can find. They don't even pay taxes. Looks like we're getting fucked here.
 
mercenar1e said:
Don't believe this bullshit lol the multi national oil companies will always find ways to increase profits by expanding in areas that they weren't in. Also being the biggest oil producer has done fucking nothing for the country... It hasn't decreased the price and they ship out whatever they can find. They don't even pay taxes. Looks like we're getting fucked here.
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That has nothing to do with what he said.
 
Crisco said:
Do people not realize that the #1 producer of natural gas and oil isn't in the Middle East or Russia or South America? It's us, right here, USA. Hell, Texas alone is about to surpass Saudi Arabia in barrels per day. The days of us going to war over an oil field or two are over.
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If you are an oil company, you can lobby congress for a few hundred grand to start a war in some country with oil. The government funds the war without any cost to the oil company. The government then takes over the oil fields, and the oil companies that bribed congress get the contracts to manage those oil fields for pennies on the dollar. They then get billions in revenue for millions spent.

You think oil companies are going to BUY land in foreign countries? War, war never changes.

pulsemyne said:
Yeah it's all politics now. Those ships will be delivered in six months/ years time when things have settled down. Notice that France says the delivery has been "Suspended" but didn't say if it was permanent or not.
Anyway you can bet your arse a deal will be signed on friday.
Click to expand...

Unless Putin sabotages it because lol. Or Putin dishonors it because land.

Putin coloured in a new map during the Olympics and it's red to the Dniper.
 
The whole ceasefire is hopefully for real and lead to a real withdraw and not a frozen conflict though some reporters have indicated some light shelling in the Mariupol area even after its been declared.

The danger is it may just be another farce by Putin. he likes to pretend like he is going to cooperate just before a new wave of sanctions to stir up trouble and work on that divide in the EU.
 
If it holds, I wonder what they agree to.

I think we can consider Crimea lost. The big question is the status of Eastern Ukraine.
 
Maybe just a cease fire until after the NATO land force exercises.
It is in Putins' best interest to have the Russians not shoot down another plane, especially a military one.

Looks like the Ukraine exercises will be far enough away though.


https://www.lc.nato.int/articles.php?news_id=331

STEADFAST JAVELIN II (Latvia and Germany/ September 2-8), and will facilitate the training of more than 2,000 multinational Soldiers in unified land operations and interoperability. This initiative involves hundreds of vehicles, aircraft and Soldiers from nine (9) different nations and takes place across five (5) NATO countries (Germany, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland).

LOYAL LANCE (Germany/ September 15-29), is a Command Post Exercise for LANDCOM to train and develop its capabilities as NATO's new Land Component Command. It is an Article-5 scenario, based in the Baltics, and will include two (2) NATO Force Structure (NFS) Corps headquarters based in Greece and Turkey. This exercise is focused on battle staff training for all of the participating headquarters and is preparatory exercise for a formal evaluation of LANDCOM in December, also in Grafenwoehr Germany) during EX TRIDENT LANCE.

NOBLE LEDGER (Germany and Norway/ September 15-27), a Command Post Exercise, it will fulfill the annual requirement to certify the land component of the Land Component of the NATO Reaction Force (NRF). For 2015, the NRF Land Component will be the 1st German-Netherland Corps (1GNC), consisting of more than a thousand Soldiers from the dozen nations which comprise 1GNC. This certification exercise will focus on the 1GNC headquarters at the German Army's simulation center in Wildflecken Germany but will also have components at the NATO Joint Warfare Center in Stavanger Norway. Allied Land Command is responsible for the Certification of the NRF Land Component each year.

RAPID TRIDENT (Ukraine/ September 13-20), an annual exercise in Lviv, Ukraine, co-hosted by Ukraine and US Army Europe, with nearly a dozen nations involved.

ANAKONDA (Poland/ September 15 to October 2), the annual national exercise for Polish armed forces. This year's ANAKONDA has been expanded to include other nations, most notably a British Army battle group.

TRIDENT LANCE (Grafenwoehr Germany/ December 3-13), will be a multi-echelon, distributed exercise with JFC Naples as the Operational Level commanding headquarters and LANDCOM as the principal training audience. Three corps headquarters from the NFS (NRDC TUR, NRDC GRC, and MNC-NE) will participate as secondary training audiences. This will be the largest and most sophisticated command post exercise since the end of the Cold War, with multiple echelons of command involved, using an Article-5 scenario in the Baltics, and with most of the units being trained via connectivity from their home headquarters in Istanbul (TUR), Thessaloniki (GRC), and Szczecin (POL). LANDCOM will train at the US Army's Joint Maneuver Training Center at Grafenwoehr, Germany while JFC-Naples will participate from its own C2 facility in Naples as well as in the JWC at Stavanger, Norway. Upon completion of this exercise, LANDCOM will achieve Full Operational Capability, on schedule as directed by and agreed upon by the Alliance at the 2010 Lisbon Summit.

At the activation ceremony for LANDCOM in Izmir Turkey November 30, 2012, then SACEUR, Admiral James G. Stavridis stated, "Interoperability within the Alliance is better now than it's ever been because NATO forces have been training and operating together, non-stop, over the last 10 years in Afghanistan. LANDCOM's job is to ensure we don't lose that level of effectiveness and interoperability in NATO's land forces after the ISAF mission is concluded in 2014."

Pursuant to that mandate LANDCOM has focused expanding education and training capacity of the Alliance by connecting national and Alliance exercises, facilities, and activities, concentrating in particular on communications and common standards. The exercise schedule for fall 2014 will do much to improve long-term effectiveness and interoperability while in the near term giving assurance to our Allies and deterring Russian aggression.
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Putin was going to stop after he create the "Eastern Ukraine" with all the military industry and coastal line anyway. So Frence is taking credit for "forcing Putin" to back down?
 
President Poroshenko is in England meeting with NATO as NATO holds its yearly Summit.

Attack on Mariupol has begun it appears even as Putin speaks peace out of the side of his mouth
@olgatokariuk 8m
Mariupol eastern suburbs,sound of explosions heard, smoke rises as rebels, Russian troops launch assault
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@lennutrajektoor 3m
News coming #Ukraine air force are making heavy raids on #Russian army @ #Mariupol. Vata in Zello complains someone leaked their positions.
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MacNille said:
Dude, I live in Sweden and I can tell you this. A lot of us don't trust or like Russia or Putin. We and Finland are not part of Eastern Europa at all. T
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Yeah, there is people like Mikael Skillt, but I do not think that there are a lot of them. You say that "a lot of us don't trust or like Russia or Putin", the most of Sweden people has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to Russia not speaking about Putin. So, there is nothing to trust or like for Sweden people about Russia. We are just foreigners.

P.S. Sorry for messing up with Eastern territory.

Other stuff
Funny thing from Remarks by President Obama to the People of Estonia on the www.whitehouse.gov:
As a result of state-run propaganda, many Russians have become convinced that the actions taken by their government is strengthening Russia. But reaching back to the days of the tsars -- trying to reclaim lands “lost” in the 19th century -- is surely not the way to secure Russia’s greatness in the 21st century. (Applause.) It only shows that unrestrained nationalism is the last refuge of those who cannot or will not deliver real progress and opportunity for their own people at home.
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The only land that was lost by monarchy russian empire in 19th century is... guess what!... Alaska! So, Obama is scared that Russia will try to reclaim Alaska? :)

P.S. Alaska was sold to US on March 30, 1867. As to Crimea, in 1954, it was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic within the Soviet Union.

And, sticking to the topic:
Ukraine president says expects ceasefire, peace plan agreed on Friday by Reuters:
At 1400 local time (7.00 a.m. EDT on Friday), provided the (Minsk) meeting takes place, I will call on the General Staff to set up a bilateral ceasefire and we hope that the implementation of the peace plan will begin tomorrow," Poroshenko said.
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I guess it's sorta related since it's about the NATO summit today, but BBC has this picture posted with the article:

_77366333_023740106-1.jpg


What the hell is going on in this picture?
 
Someone ask Russia what it is they really want. Cut the bullshit. Everyone lay out your agendas for the world to see and let's figure it all out together.
 
Veritigo_X said:
I guess it's sorta related since it's about the NATO summit today, but BBC has this picture posted with the article:

_77366333_023740106-1.jpg


What the hell is going on in this picture?
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The only interesting golf game ever.

Real answer,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/04/tanks-fighter-planes-par-course-nato-summit

One of the more incongruous sights at the Nato summit in Newport is that of British military hardware strewn among the greens and bunkers of the Celtic Manor golf resort.

Parked near one of the holes, close to a sign warning: "Danger: Golf In Progress From Right", are an armoured personnel carrier, a tank and a fighter plane.
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