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[A Link to the Past]

I'd be happier with 45 with no clones. I've always felt that they drag down the overall quality of the game.

From a consumer perspective, this makes no sense. You are getting less out of a product.

From a quality perspective, this makes no sense. More clones, more options, more quality.

 

[Kinsei]

yeah, occassionally i order a pizza and ask for them to take out a few slices because i'm not going to eat them too.

I think a better analogy would be ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box to find that there is a slice of Hawaiian. Sure, the rest of the pizza is delicious but you hate Hawaiian. Of course you figure it's just a one time thing, but the next three times you order pizza from that same place, there's always a slice of Hawaiian mixed in.

From a consumer perspective, this makes no sense. You are getting less out of a product.

From a quality perspective, this makes no sense. More clones, more options, more quality.

Because of clones I'll never get to play as Ganondorf. That's why I have an irrational hatred of them.

 

[Tripon]

You Lucina fans upset just cause she's not in the demo are ridiculous.

BOO-FUCKING-HOO

Today:

Dreams never die.

In one week:

The Dream is Dead.

 

[MrSaturn99]

From a consumer perspective, this makes no sense. You are getting less out of a product.

From a quality perspective, this makes no sense. More clones, more options, more quality.

BUT ITS JUST SO LAZY!!!!!!11

 

[JazzmanZ]

I think a better analogy would be ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box to find that there is a slice of Hawaiian. Sure, the rest of the pizza is delicious but you hate Hawaiian. Of course you figure it's just a one time thing, but the next three times you order pizza from that same place, there's always a slice of Hawaiian mixed in.

then...stop ordering pizza from the same place?

 

[Tan]

I think a better analogy would be ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box to find that there is a slice of Hawaiian. Sure, the rest of the pizza is delicious but you hate Hawaiian. Of course you figure it's just a one time thing, but the next three times you order pizza from that same place, there's always a slice of Hawaiian mixed in.

It's more like ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box and find there's a whole meat lovers pizza and some Hawaiian on the side.

 

[dimb]

C'mon Anth0ny, I KNOW you're better than this. Clones aren't the reason IC, Wolf, etc. were cut. Anybody who thinks so is dumb and has only themselves to blame for their dumbness :/

There is no good reason for a character like the Ice Climbers to be cut. There are no possible complications that could arise that would be a valid excuse.

 

[Not75Drops]

First cake now fucking pizza...

 

[munchie64]

nobody is ever cut for anybody in Smash...

?

 

[Aaronrules380]

I think a better analogy would be ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box to find that there is a slice of Hawaiian. Sure, the rest of the pizza is delicious but you hate Hawaiian. Of course you figure it's just a one time thing, but the next three times you order pizza from that same place, there's always a slice of Hawaiian mixed in.

No, it's like getting a full pizza and then getting an extra slice you don't like on top of that. You don't lose anything because of the clones, so taking them away doesn't really give you more of what you like

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

You Lucina fans upset just cause she's not in the demo are ridiculous.

BOO-FUCKING-HOO

Do I get to give you your avatar yet, or do I have to wait until the game comes out next week?

 

[OmegaSmash]

then...stop ordering pizza from the same place?

But what if its the only place that serves the pizza you like?

 

[Josephl64]

?

*whistles*

 

[Kinsei]

then...stop ordering pizza from the same place?

That pizza place is the only one that has the pizza that I like. It's not like I can get Smash somewhere else.

No, it's like getting a full pizza and then getting an extra slice you don't like on top of that. You don't lose anything because of the clones, so taking them away doesn't really give you more of what you like

I lost Ganondorf because of clones.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think a better analogy would be ordering a meat lovers pizza and opening the box to find that there is a slice of Hawaiian. Sure, the rest of the pizza is delicious but you hate Hawaiian. Of course you figure it's just a one time thing, but the next three times you order pizza from that same place, there's always a slice of Hawaiian mixed in.

Bad analogy.

Let's called 45 characters eight slices of pizza.

The three extra clones are a ninth slice of pizza.

Your analogy implies that you lose value, when all you have to do it toss that extra, free slice of pizza that they were so kind to make for you into the garbage.

 

[KelpPlankton]

I don't know how many times people have to say "clones did not result in the removal of any characters, taking the clones out would mean we would just have no clones and nothing to replace them", but.

Clones did not result in the removal of any characters, taking the clones out would mean we would have no clones and nothing to replace them.

And let's pair that with the good ol' "making unique veterans takes just as long as making a newcomer", for the sake of completeness. Because making unique veterans takes just as long as making a newcomer.

6 clones = 1 newcomer or veteran, according to Sakurai while working on Melee(Dedede got cut). We've got 3 clones. Take them out and we get... half a character? More progress made on DLC characters we won't see for 6 months anyway?

Clones are good and cool and nice to have and they didn't make your favorite character get left out of the game. They are just clones.

 

[The Captain]

?

Well that was clearly a better choice.

 

[IntelliHeath]

The outrage isn't from characters getting cut, per se. It's unique characters like ice climbers being cut for clones like dr Mario and presumably dark pit.

I don't think anyone would trade a unique veteran for a new clone.

But people need to understand that clones are just bonus addition to the roster at last minutes. They don't intend to replace a unique character with the clones. Something happened during development so they had to cut Chorus Men and Ice Climbers at last minute. Maybe it don't work on 3DS, or they need a time to working on those characters so they put both characters on hold for DLC expansion.

 

[MrSaturn99]

So is pizza the new cake?

 

[Wanderer5]

Wonder how dark pit is going to be like. Not sure what they can give him for alts, but they probably can use a different weapon from Uprising for him that Pit doesn't use (like the Dark Pit staff). Think he more aggressive too, but I hate for him to be a exact clone of Pit (even through he almost is ).

 

[Kyzon]

I think if (when) DLC hits for Smash it'll be reasonably priced like the MK8 DLC.

I'm positive that will happen. If "reasonably priced" wasn't objective I'd even bet on it.

To be fair, technically the first DLC was the one from a week ago that added the Mercedes cars and fixed the awful menus and that was free. So the equivalent for smash would be a game update with the Veterans for free.

I was more going on the fact that Dry Bowser is a MK Vet.

The Mercedes thing would be more akin to if we had an update with a few extra alt colors since the karts share stats with existing vehicles.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Clone tournament; Kinsei is #1 seed.

 

[georly]

?

I'd argue young link evolved into toon link. Same way falco transformed into a declonified falco. Toon link is basically just young link, declonified, with a fresh coat of paint.

 

[Josephl64]

That pizza place is the only one that has the pizza that I like. It's not like I can get Smash somewhere else.

There's this place called All Stars Pizza...however it's the kind that tastes like cardboard

(seriously so many bad pizza analogies now)

 

[Ivan 3414]

There is no good reason for a character like the Ice Climbers to be cut. There are no possible complications that could arise that would be a valid excuse.

This is sarcasm, I suppose.

 

[-Horizon-]

Wait, the game comes with Pizza? That Reggie influence.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

I'd be happier with 45 with no clones. I've always felt that they drag down the overall quality of the game.

Someone needs a second Snickers bar.

 

[munchie64]

Well that was clearly a better choice.

Spoiler

Too obvious?

I'd argue young link evolved into toon link. Same way falco transformed into a declonified falco. Toon link is basically just young link, declonified, with a fresh coat of paint.

I could see that reasoning. The Link clones are definitely unique circumstances though.

 

[Hours Left]

Any place with all the new info together?

 

[Anth0ny]

C'mon Anth0ny, I KNOW you're better than this. Clones aren't the reason IC, Wolf, etc. were cut. Anybody who thinks so is dumb and has only themselves to blame for their dumbness :/

Again I'm not saying I agree that's just how the masses are going to interpret it. And are interpreting it. The whole "time it takes to make a clone vs. time it takes to make a newcomer/unique veteran" goes over their head. All they see is cool character out, boring character in. Outrage!

 

[Josephl64]

Wait, the game comes with Pizza? That Reggie influence.

this would make me so happy

 

[A Link to the Past]

There is no good reason for a character like the Ice Climbers to be cut. There are no possible complications that could arise that would be a valid excuse.

Untrue. Sakurai - a veteran video game developer - explicitly stated that there were complications. Please assume that the creator of Smash knows how easy or hard it is to have eight different complex, 60FPS AIs on screen at any one time.

 

[ffdgh]

Wait, the game comes with Pizza? That Reggie influence.

Pizza? Mona confirmed.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

Spoiler

Too obvious?

Yep. Saw that one coming from a mile away, but it was still necessary for sure.

 

[Kinsei]

Someone needs a second Snickers bar.

I still don't get it. Is it a reference to a commercial?

 

[-Horizon-]

Any place with all the new info together?

That Japanese Demo thread on GAF is floating around somewhere.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889829

 

[Gartooth]

But people need to understand that clones are just bonus addition to the roster at last minutes. They don't intend to replace a unique character with the clones. Something happened during development so they had to cut Chorus Men and Ice Climbers at last minute. Maybe it don't work on 3DS, or they need a time to working on those characters so they put both characters on hold for DLC expansion.

I agree. At the same time, I think the clone choices were kind of poor. For instance, I would've been more excited for Alph as a clone rather than Dr. Mario.

 

[chaosblade]

Untrue. Sakurai - a veteran video game developer - explicitly stated that there were complications. Please assume that the creator of Smash knows how easy or hard it is to have eight different complex, 60FPS AIs on screen at any one time.

Where was this? I've only ever seen speculation.

 

[The Captain]

Untrue. Sakurai - a veteran video game developer - explicitly stated that there were complications. Please understand that the creator of Smash knows how easy or hard it is to have eight different complex, 60FPS AIs on screen at any one time.

FTFY.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I agree. At the same time, I think the clone choices were kind of poor. For instance, I would've been more excited for Alph as a clone rather than Dr. Mario.

I completely disagree haha. Doc is a Melee classic.

 

[Tan]

I agree. At the same time, I think the clone choices were kind of poor. For instance, I would've been more excited for Alph as a clone rather than Dr. Mario.

I on the other hand...

 

[JazzmanZ]

That pizza place is the only one that has the pizza that I like. It's not like I can get Smash somewhere else.

There's one just down the street you should try, I hear the taste is near just like the one you like, only they seem to get the wrong slices you order and feedback hasn't been so great, I also heard the original owners got taken over too and tried to put in their own flavor over something that was planned to be great.

 

[HypnoDarkrai]

that first image is too small.
But seriously, I thought that was white charizard and we still had yet to see purple charizard?

Yeah sorry, I got it from that youtube video. :/

CHARIZARD:
-Dark red charizard, Blue charizard
- Charizard can be purple, yellow, red, grey
- Charizard's up throw is seismic toss, similar to Kirby's throw.
-Charizard: Shiny Charizard

That's 6 (Are Dark Red and Red different?) or 7, I guess the one from the video could count as grey.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So let's reiterate the proper pizza analogy

45 characters is a full pizza

3 clones is an extra slide of free cheesy bread

A lot of people like cheesy bread, and you might not. You didn't pay for the cheesy bread, it's not hurting your pizza, so why do you have to keep free cheesy bread from those that like it?

 

[HiroTSK5]

I was more going on the fact that Dry Bowser is a MK Vet.

The Mercedes thing would be more akin to if we had an update with a few extra alt colors since the karts share stats with existing vehicles.

I just had a horrible thought, what if Lucas and Wolf are DLC as Alt costumes that no longer have their independent characteristics?

 

[-Horizon-]

Someone needs a second Snickers bar.

There are Snickers now? First Mercedes, then AKB48, now Snickers. All that promotion money Nintendo is rolling in.

 

[Hatchtag]

So let's reiterate the proper pizza analogy

45 characters is a full pizza

3 clones is an extra slide of free cheesy bread

A lot of people like cheesy bread, and you might not. You didn't pay for the cheesy bread, it's not hurting your pizza, so why do you have to keep free cheesy bread from those that like it?

There's also two places down the street, All-Stars pizza, but their pizza is cheap and tastes bad, and another place that just reheats the pizza, but they do a really good job of it and manage to add two slices onto it.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

I agree. At the same time, I think the clone choices were kind of poor. For instance, I would've been more excited for Alph as a clone rather than Dr. Mario.

Nah

 

[A Link to the Past]

I just had a horrible thought, what if Lucas and Wolf are DLC as Alt costumes that no longer have their independent characteristics?

Riots

 

[MrSaturn99]

Damn, now I want to order some Papa John's pizza. Thanks, SmashGAF!