Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XV: Kübler-Ross Edition

Lunar15 said:
He could have an entirely different weapon. We have no idea what he plays like.
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I really don't care what he plays like, that has nothing to do with my beef with Dark Pit.

But! The character select screen strongly suggests he's a Dr. Mario/Lucina clone because why else would he be where he is? Even Toon Link gets to sit next to the Zelda characters.
 
One thing I am 100% sure will be different about Dark Pit, again, is his Dark Staff will be his neutral B. It may work like Brawl Pit's arrows but go farther lol.
 
Kinsei said:
I'd be happier with 45 with no clones. I've always felt that they drag down the overall quality of the game.
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Such backwards thinking.

Lets go to Ultimate Street Fighter IV If you take out all shoto except ryu you're left with 37 characters instead of 44. That's 7 less characters in total. 7 different styles of play even though they come from the same humble beginnings.

Wolf plays nothing like Fox, same thing with Falco. If you try to play them all the same you'll find your success to be sorely lacking.

Clones aren't bad, and it's silly how ONLY the Smash fandom has a huge problem with them.

It's kinda embarrassing.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
If any one character is responsible for why Ganondorf is still a clone, it's one of the newcomers that took a lot of work. Like it or not, this is Ganondorf's identity in Smash Bros. Your best bet is to hope for Sakurai to include Ganon as his own character in pig form.
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I've given up on that hope. At this point if any well known retro characters were going to be playable, they would have been already.
 
I think another thing about clones that piss people off is we have to wait SIX years between Smash Bros games. The expectation is this perfect, polished experience that is the result of a brilliant director, unlimited budget and essentially no time constraints.
obviously not all of that is true, but that's the perception
Clones don't fit into that experience.
 
If Sakurai thought Ganondorf would be a good, unique fighter on his own, he wouldn't have made him a clone in the first place. It's not like the third piece of the triforce was a "Oh shit, I can totally use this guy, better gin him up in ten minutes!" decision.
 
J@hranimo said:
Oh man now that you mention it
Plasma Wraith
should be a boss on Garden of Hope.

He would Yellow Devil look tame lol.
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I'm not sure if I would prefer him as a boss, or an Assist Trophy. We already have a few bosses, and I'd like to keep the Garden of Hope as a tranquil location.
That said, with a boss toggle (and GamePad playable bosses),
Plasm Wraith
would be the shit.
 
Spent the last while catching up on all the updates. Oh man, the hype is real as fuck right now. Everything sounds amazing. Falcon regaining shades of his Melee form, those whack as fuck Yoshi buffs, Robin sounding amazing, but especially:

Makai said:
"you'll be happy to know that palutena 0 to deathed me on verismo valley. I got shreked. She did like a 12 hit combo on me as mario"
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fuuuuuuuuck yesssssssssssssss

GODDESS TIERRRRR

bless the sakurai buffs

Marth having KOs off his counter sounds fucking hysterical, heavy nerfs all aside. I can't imagine how angry people would be getting taken out by this. :lol

also FUCK YES CUSTOMS ON THE CSS GAME CHANGERRRR

Was kinda feeling down on 4, mechanically, but man, all these impressions have really lit me up. Everything just sounds... man, so much better than Brawl. And everyone I'm intending to main (RIP Marth) sounds hella amazing. Robin and Palutena is all I need, 'cause damn. New ledge play sounds great, a lot more confident about the game-speed now - I'm just hoping that we find some legit stages without huge blast-zones. It's kind of a bummer that people seem to be surviving so long on Battlefield, so... hopefully there's gonna be some relatively decent neutral stages where it's a little easier to die on. :lol
 
Nikokuno said:
Timeline :

SFZ - SF II - SF IV - SF III ... But it's Cacpcom, Hugo in, Makoto in, Yun in, Yang in, but no Alex, no Sean... Don't take the timeline seriously, even Cacpcom don't give a fuck, SF IV is just Ono's Dream Match.
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Well yeah. Its just one of my favorite mini story lines is Gen's quest for dying in a Street Fight. Imagine if he met Oro in one, or Oro fought Akuma in one ending....

Edit: Also, clones is a time honored tradition in Smash, and fighting games in general. They're the basis of creating offshoots of well established characters and can turn in really interesting ways.

You couldn't have Falco without Fox, Luigi without Mario, etc.

If and when Smash 6 comes out, Lucina will be different enough from Marth like Falco became in Brawl that she'll be her own character in her own right.
 
Kinsei said:
I've given up on that hope. At this point if any well known retro characters were going to be playable, they would have been already.
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Sakurai only seldom includes a character more than twice.

Mario
Dr. Mario

Link
Toon/Young Link

Samus
Zero Suit Samus

Zelda
Sheik

It's pretty uncommon, and Ganon is hardly a retro concept. Even if we're talking about his ALttP form, it appears in the Oracle games and Four Swords Adventures.
 
Wanderer5 said:
Wonder how dark pit is going to be like. Not sure what they can give him for alts, but they probably can use a different weapon from Uprising for him that Pit doesn't use (like the Dark Pit staff). Think he more aggressive too, but I hate for him to be a exact clone of Pit (even through he almost is :P).
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Knowing Sakurai, Lucina and Dr. Mario will be almost identical clones, while Dark Pit will be practically a new character.

Kidding!
 
There's nothing wrong with the clones. They require less dev time and every fighting game has them. Not only that, but they've been a staple of this franchise as well going all the way back to the original game. They're just a way to jam a few extra characters in there to please some people.

I don't understand why people don't get that. I further don't understand why people are actually mad or offended about their inclusion.

This game already has a huge number of characters, a few clones is ok. It's much less than most fighters anyways.
 
Pizza is kinda like cake, except you focus more on the frosting.
Triton55 said:
Saw this on the wall of a community center along with other children's projects, thought it was too cute not to share!

y7aeKKy.png
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It's nice reading what kids write. At least Luca's favorite character made it it in Smash 4.
 
Honestly Alph being still stuck to Olimar is my only real disappointment with the roster... I wouldn't have minded a slightly delay to get him up to full clone status. Remove Purple and White, add Rock as a special rare Pikmin, tweak the overall stats a bit (make him a bit lighter but faster with his Pikmin?), and bam, one more slot on the screen.

It's not a huge deal, but there's definitely the potential there for something cool and it's a shame they couldn't go all the way with it.
 
I'm bout to go to Pizza Hut and get some stuffed crust pizza with pepperoni from Pizza Hut (the Reggie endorsed pizza place) and enjoy it thanks to your pizza comparison. Thanks smashGaf
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I wish Sakurai saw value in a Boss Switch

It would make bosses so much more palatable. Why should I have to deal with Yellow Devil in order to have fun with the Guts Man platforms?
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I would love it if we had bosses on about every stage, but you could toggle them off, and you could play as them in a special mode where Player 5 is the boss (the GamePad).
 
ShockingAlberto said:
If Sakurai thought Ganondorf would be a good, unique fighter on his own, he wouldn't have made him a clone in the first place. It's not like the third piece of the triforce was a "Oh shit, I can totally use this guy, better gin him up in ten minutes!" decision.
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Uh, that's exactly what happened with Melee Ganondorf.
 
BGBW said:
I just want pictures of costumes. As a trivia fan vs a mechanics fan, power description don't really do it for me.

Also my prediction of who character 7 in Xenoblade was correct, having now got them.
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I'm glad I didn't even know abouth 7th when I played Xenoblade. I hate spoilers xD
 
ShockingAlberto said:
If Sakurai thought Ganondorf would be a good, unique fighter on his own, he wouldn't have made him a clone in the first place. It's not like the third piece of the triforce was a "Oh shit, I can totally use this guy, better gin him up in ten minutes!" decision.
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He could've just put him into Melee because he was a popular character with a similar build to Falcon and wouldn't look *that* weird with his moveset, then by Brawl/SSB4 felt the moveset was too popular to justify cutting. Doesn't mean he doesn't think he could be a unique fighter, just the pro's don't outweigh the con's for decloning him at the moment.
 
Crocodile said:
Well there is this thing called finite time and resources. Especially if even the verterans were rebuilt from the ground up. You may have heard of it :P
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There's this other thing called "project management". I heard it's pretty helpful, and might be a useful tool in freeing up the time and resources needed to slot in unique characters that define the franchise.
 
jph139 said:
Honestly Alph being still stuck to Olimar is my only real disappointment with the roster... I wouldn't have minded a slightly delay to get him up to full clone status. Remove Purple and White, add Rock as a special rare Pikmin, tweak the overall stats a bit (make him a bit lighter but faster with his Pikmin?), and bam, one more slot on the screen.

It's not a huge deal, but there's definitely the potential there for something cool and it's a shame they couldn't go all the way with it.
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What if they somehow included Ultra-Spicy Spray as a move? Where your Pikmin are briefly powered up, but then after a short time they weaken again.
 
So is my local pizza restaurant Drag's (best pizza in da world! but not mainstream) Project M?

And is that really good pizza I had on a trip to Nice, France that I can barely remember the 3DS Smash demo in Japan, so good but out of reach?

...I'm hungry
 
Oh, and I'm completely fine with Ganondorf remaining a "base clone" character. His moves in Brawl are diversified enough, on the whole, to make him acceptable for me. A few more tweaks would be cool (energy volleyball projectile please) but aren't necessary by any means. He FEELS like Ganondorf - slow and brutal and cruel - even if he doesn't reflect the games perfectly.

Pig Ganon would be a great sixth Zelda character, though, and would fit well with two Links and two Zeldas. Fans of Smash Ganon get to keep their character, fans of Zelda Ganon get a unique moveset, everybody wins.
 
The Captain said:
I would love it if we had bosses on about every stage, but you could toggle them off, and you could play as them in a special mode where Player 5 is the boss (the GamePad).
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I need something like this to happen.
Partially because I avatar betted Ridley was playable, either as a playable boss or a character.
 
dimb said:
There's this other thing called "project management". I heard it's pretty helpful, and might be a useful tool in freeing up the time and resources needed to slot in unique characters that define the franchise.
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All the characters that define the franchise are included. It sucks that Ice Climbers are apparently cut but let's not kid ourselves here. People buy Smash Bros primarily for Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, etc. Further characters like Marth and Ness I definitely buy as ones that further "define the franchise". Ice Climbers have never been that popular in any way. Again, it sucks that they're gone but every single fighting game franchise gets characters cut in subsequent games. It happens. Ice Climbers had bad luck this time. There's always still the DLC possibility anyways.
 
Captainbojanglesiii said:
120 Game and Watch clones coming up. Why? Because why not?
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I'd be very impressed if someone could come up with 12 clone ideas for Mr. Game & Watch, let alone 120. :P

But seriously, I would love this roster so much more if they threw in

Mr. L as Luigi clone
Daisy as Peach clone
Dry Bowser as Bowser clone
Funky Kong as DK clone
Classic Wario as Wario clone
Captain Syrup as Link clone
Boshi as Yoshi clone
Pichu as Pikachu clone
Fierce Deity Link as Link clone
Hilda as Zelda clone
Galactica Knight as Meta Knight clone
Roy as Ike clone
Tharja as Robin clone
Doc Louis as Little Mac clone
Medusa as Palutena clone
Paula as Ness clone
Alph as Olimar clone
Black Shadow as Captain Falcon clone
Sami as Snake clone
Metal Sonic as Sonic clone
Proto Man as Mega Man clone
Ms. Pac-Man as Pac-Man clone

Would everyone legitimately be fuming at this?
 
ShockingAlberto said:
No, I understand Ganon was added at the last minute. I am saying he was added at the last minute because Sakurai didn't find a style he wanted to use him for.
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Why couldn't it have just been time constraints? That's why we got 6 clones in the first place instead of Dedede. The famitsu article that talked about this way back when also mentioned they briefly considered making Wario a slower Mario clone but held off since they didn't think it'd go over with fans well.
 
So much to talk about, but my mind is racing in EVERY direction. Holy shit @ the Yoshi buffs though, those really stand out in my mind. Hearing that Pit is a better "jack of all trades" is so good even if arrow looping was my PhD in Brawl/Project M. At least custom moves are available right there on the CSS (YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA BOI) and I can play with different versions of his arrow special on top of his standard capability.

Marth stuff is still so weird to hear about though. Zipzo's painting a scary picture of the Hero King, but D1 continues to refute things with his own experiences and the "Day Urley Clause" (never judge characters overall viability by trade show experience alone).

PALU-FUCKING-TENA THOOOOOOOOO. This chick is going to be the GREATEST.

Also, Falcon is back in a big way it sounds. The Knee landing thing is still hilarious to me but if everything else holds true (faster Falcon Punch, Falcon Kick recovery is back, aerials back to Melee levels), he's another returning champion.

A Link to the Snitch said:
Honestly, here's what should have happened

Six clones for Smash 4

Alph
Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Roy
Pichu
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Are we doing shoulds?

Dark Samus over Dr. Mario
Medusa over Dark Pit
Lucina
Impa
Dixie Kong
(dunno who I'd put here)

Metroid and DK finally get their well deserved 3rd character, Kid Icarus gets their classic trio (and Smash gets a female villain), Zelda gets a newcomer after 13 years, Lucina stays because I respect the fan base even if I still think she's overrated.

Edit: Sami as a Snake clone? *runs away from angry Snake fans and "Andy is the main character of Advance Wars" advocates*
 
I don't mind there being new clones, but I do wish the OLD clones were given new movesets this time. I figured that would be the next step, given Sakurai had commented on his dislike of having lots of clones? I just hate how Ganondorf's moveset doesn't really reflect his appearances in the games...at all.

If Wolf is cut, Falco better have his moveset. If he doesn't...that would be ridiculous.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I'd be very impressed if someone could come up with 12 clone ideas for Mr. Game & Watch, let alone 120. :P

But seriously, I would love this roster so much more if they threw in

Mr. L as Luigi clone
Daisy as Peach clone
Dry Bowser as Bowser clone
Funky Kong as DK clone
Classic Wario as Wario clone
Captain Syrup as Link clone
Boshi as Yoshi clone
Pichu as Pikachu clone
Fierce Deity Link as Link clone
Hilda as Zelda clone
Galactica Knight as Meta Knight clone
Roy as Ike clone
Tharja as Robin clone
Doc Louis as Little Mac clone
Medusa as Palutena clone
Paula as Ness clone
Alph as Olimar clone
Black Shadow as Captain Falcon clone
Sami as Snake clone
Metal Sonic as Sonic clone
Proto Man as Mega Man clone
Ms. Pac-Man as Pac-Man clone

Would everyone legitimately be fuming at this?
Click to expand...

That roster would never happen
sadly.

Hades as a Ganondorf clone please.
 
TDLink said:
All the characters that define the franchise are included. It sucks that Ice Climbers are apparently cut but let's not kid ourselves here. People buy Smash Bros primarily for Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, etc. Further characters like Marth and Ness I definitely buy as ones that further "define the franchise". Ice Climbers have never been that popular in any way. Again, it sucks that they're gone but every single fighting game franchise gets characters cut in subsequent games. It happens. Ice Climbers had bad luck this time. There's always still the DLC possibility anyways.
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Just to add to this Scorpion got cut from MK3. Scorpion.

He got added back in UMK3 so I see no reason why ICs won't come back later at some stage.
 
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