I had a rare encounter with a racist today.

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ishibear said:
What would you call him then?
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A person who was not aware that the term Oriental could be seen as racist to OP?

Just because OP was offended does not mean it was inherently racist, or that the man implied it to be negative.

Unless he actually has negative presumptions based on a person's race, I think calling him a racist or scumbag is going too far.

I mean, this thread is all about OP being offended because of a word used. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to actively start calling the father a scumbag over this? As other's in this thread have shown, there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the word being racist or not.
 
Fiction said:
I've actually gotten used to really old dudes hitting on me. I work at a truck stop and can't wear my wedding ring because I'm allergic to it and RA makes my fingers swell all stupid sometimes anyhow lol
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Off topic but have you ever thought about getting a ring tattoo? My friend who is a electrician had that done.
 
Ingueferroque said:
A person who was not aware that the term Oriental could be seen as racist to OP?

Just because OP was offended does not mean it was inherently racist, or that the man implied it to be negative.

Unless he actually has negative presumptions based on a person's race, I think calling him a racist or scumbag is going too far.

I mean, this thread is all about OP being offended because of a word used. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to actively start calling the father a scumbag over this? As other's in this thread have shown, there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the word being racist or not.
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He was being a douche at the very least with the he conducted himself when OP told him the word was offensive to him.
 
Ingueferroque said:
A person who was not aware that the term Oriental could be seen as racist to OP?

Just because OP was offended does not mean it was inherently racist, or that the man implied it to be negative.

Unless he actually has negative presumptions based on a person's race, I think calling him a racist or scumbag is going too far.

I mean, this thread is all about OP being offended because of a word used. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to actively start calling the father a scumbag over this? As other's in this thread have shown, there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the word being racist or not.
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Well calling the offended party "full of shit" is kind of messed, kind of to the point of scumbaggery (or douchery, whichever sounds better).
 
Ingueferroque said:
A person who was not aware that the term Oriental could be seen as racist to OP?

Just because OP was offended does not mean it was inherently racist, or that the man implied it to be negative.

Unless he actually has negative presumptions based on a person's race, I think calling him a racist or scumbag is going too far.

I mean, this thread is all about OP being offended because of a word used. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to actively start calling the father a scumbag over this? As other's in this thread have shown, there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the word being racist or not.
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I'm sorry, didn't OP tell the Sketchbag that the word was offensive and said Sketchbag digi-volved into a Mega Sketchbag?
 
foxtrot3d said:
I don't care what assholes from the 50's used and I don't care what they grew up with learn to live in the present and know what is and is not acceptable. Second, OP pointed out to the guy that what he said was offensive, the polite thing to do was not to pick a fight and simply accept that. So this isn't adorable old white grandma who still uses negro to describe black people totally ignorant of its outdated nature, this dude was told and he still continued to pick a fight.
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'scuse me. I am one of those, as you put it, "assholes from the 50's" and I should point out that the word "asshole" is considered derogatory in many places particularly when used of individuals. I really don't care if it is a word you grew up with, you ought to be a bit more careful about giving gratuitous offence.

You may not have meant to imply that everyone from the '50s is an asshole, but that is the way it came across - and yes, I do feel offended by it.

Mineshaft_Gap said:
In all seriousness, the thing I took most offense to was his doubling down on his ignorance in response to my polite correction of his ignorant vernacular. His Britishness isn't a factor as the truly offensive thing about this guy wasn't the initial statement but rather the tirade which followed.
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And that's fair enough I think. Without being there I really couldn't comment further on how the thing unfolded.

For myself, I do try to keep up with usage and ease out of my vocabulary things that people find offensive. But until this thread I wasn't even aware that "oriental" was considered offensive anywhere. So far as I'm aware though I've only ever used it to refer to locations and cultures and not individuals - that may be a more recent development.
 
Great, so we have people defending a racist they have never met. When is it ok to argue with someone about what is offensive and what is not to their face?
 
DECK'ARD said:
He said that was the word he was brought up with, which is correct and isn't racist in the UK.

If OP has then gone "Well things are different over here" instead of "That's the excuse racists use when they say the word nigger" maybe the outcome would have been very different.

OP was even aware there might be a cultural difference but dived right in to escalating it.

Both are at fault.
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First of all, "oriental" is, as someone already keenly described here, a quaintly racist term, even amongst Commonwealth nations. Secondly, it seems you're under the impression that racism is primarily about what makes white people comfortable or uncomfortable.
 
fader said:
Look. I don't care what Google or a Dictionary says, it is a dated derogatory term towards Asians but it's still offensive. We have an Asian GAF member who stated how they were offended by it, and I know plenty of Asians who stated how it's an offensive term because it classifies objects not people.
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First of all oriental classifies peoples, cultures, foods, areas, etc. of the "east". It's a historical word. It has no root in religion, ethnics, etc. It's literally a historical descriptive word. It's why universities used to call it "Oriental Studies" but now have it changed to "Asian X Studies" to be more specific and add more courses.

You can be offended by the word, but we have to wonder if it's an over reaction or an actual offense. Oriental has the same meaning as "Asian". The only really difference is "Asian" is exclusive, colloquially, to Japan, China, etc. or places where they "look Asian". Oriental wasn't harmful, it was perceived to be harmful, so some people asked to be called something else (which is essentially the same word). There are already people who dislike being called Asian and especially "Asian-Country". It's just a growing trend of replace the previous word with a "better" word.
 
Ingueferroque said:
A person who was not aware that the term Oriental could be seen as racist to OP?

Just because OP was offended does not mean it was inherently racist, or that the man implied it to be negative.

Unless he actually has negative presumptions based on a person's race, I think calling him a racist or scumbag is going too far.

I mean, this thread is all about OP being offended because of a word used. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to actively start calling the father a scumbag over this? As other's in this thread have shown, there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the word being racist or not.
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Way to miss the fuck out of the point. How many times do I and other users need to point out that his reaction was the crux of the issue?
 
Fiction said:
I am allergic to tons of different kinds of metals, and tattoo ink sometimes contains metal, so not tattoo artist will take me. :/

Also, since it would be in a place near my joints (knuckles and finger) any immune response (swelling from the tattoo) would suck ass.

I've always wanted a tattoo as well :(
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what about wood?
 
Honestly, as far as offensive terms go, Oriental is pretty low on the list. I wouldn't be offended if someone called me Oriental, although I might raise my eyebrows because I can't recall a single instance of anyone ever calling me it. And I've dealt with somewhat racist comments before.
 
I've always wanted to say "How about I 'orient' my foot up your ass!" if I were in a weird situation like that.

"Oriental" sounds fine when applied to rugs or stores, not people.
 
CeramicDragon said:
Great, so we have people defending a racist they have never met. When is it ok to argue with someone about what is offensive and what is not to their face?
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People are debating the definition of the word and its use throughout multiple societies. Just because a word is taboo in one culture doesn't make it taboo in the other.

"Cunt" is a perfect example of this.
 
Darren870 said:
People are debating the definition of the word and its use throughout multiple societies. Just because a word is taboo in on culture doesn't make it taboo in the other.

"Cunt" is a perfect example of this.
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I'm a girl and I find the cunt irresistibly fun to use. Almost every other girl I know hates that word with a passion.
 
Sketchbag said:
First of all oriental classifies peoples, cultures, foods, areas, etc. of the "east". It's a historical word. It has no root in religion, ethnics, etc. It's literally a historical descriptive word. It's why universities used to call it "Oriental Studies" but now have it changed to "Asian X Studies" to be more specific and add more courses.

You can be offended by the word, but we have to wonder if it's an over reaction or an actual offense. Oriental has the same meaning as "Asian". The only really difference is "Asian" is exclusive, colloquially, to Japan, China, etc. or places where they "look Asian". Oriental wasn't harmful, it was perceived to be harmful, so some people asked to be called something else (which is essentially the same word). There are already people who dislike being called Asian and especially "Asian-Country". It's just a growing trend of replace the previous word with a "better" word.
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Need citation for bolded. It can't be just asians who are offended of being called of what their ethnic country is. This would be the equivalent of person with France at their ethnic country getting offended at being called French (We must call them personne française!).

I've made the argument before on another thread: Words change over time. Origin is important of course but if the current definition held by many (especially the receiving party) to be offensive, then it's going to be offensive.
 
Ingueferroque said:
Sure, I definitely agree that he was being annoying. But scumbag? Racist?
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I'm not interested in what to call the guy. What he did however was douchey and can be perceived as racist. Kinda silly to attack OP over this point and a sure fire way to derail the conversation.
 
Kinda getting a 2012 vibe here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=494772

But lately a PC brigade has been stringing up anyone who holds a position anywhere not completely in line with their agenda, and I've been cringing more and more reading these threads and their evangelical hostility.

The important thing at NeoGAF is that our members are civil and respectful with each other. Each other. Be civil and respectful with every member of the forum, period. We'll remain free to ban anyone who isn't in line with the vision of the site, mainly idiots and bigots and cuntly dickish assholes, but it's not your responsibility, any of you, to enlighten us as a whole and cast the disbelievers down into a pit.
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ishibear said:
I'm substituting scumbag for a less offensive term.

Funny how I can do it but you can't.
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ZuGqAMt.gif
 
EmptySpace said:
it's funny to learn that your use of the term isn't shared by the rest of the world?

didn't you read my post? i said we use it freely because we use their definitions the way they're intended to be used and not the definitions 'usa usa usa' imposed on it. that is why you see people from the uk and even some chinese in this thread not seeing 'oriental' as racist or offensive. one more thing, we pronounce it as neh-gro, it's pronounced the way it's spelled. so i'm sorry to disappoint you. i am not racist, and i use the term even in combination with other terms as a descriptor for the colour black. it also helps to learn that not everyone who uses these words are racists or they use it "the american way". i wonder who's actually ignorant now.

as i've said, it depends upon the person and their intent.
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Nobody was talking about the use of the word "negro" in Spanish where it means something totally different and is pronounced differently. We were talking about its use in America where its meaning is totally different and known to everyone.
 
DECK'ARD said:
Oriental in the UK means East Asian.

It's outdated and not in common use but wasn't a slur. He was surprised it was, learnt it could be offensive, and said that was the word he grew up with.

Instead of further educating him he's branded racist and told he's making excuses and just called the OP the equivalent of nigger. I'm not surprised he got pissed off at that leap.
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Lol reread the OP please. The OP politely informed him that the word was offensive and instead of apologizing and moving on the guy decide to try to dictate what the OP was allowed to find offensive and began arguing with him/her. Also the OP never told him he was a racist, he/she just said that his rational is the same that racists use, which is absolutely correct.

akira28 said:
wait, Mineshaft_Gap, are you in the US or the UK?
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Yeah OP I'm curious as well.
 
AnathemicOne said:
It's as racist as calling a black person a negro. It's not particularly offensive but it recalls older times that both minorities aren't fond of (in relation to the dominance of white/western culture). Atleast that's how I view it.

Plus, why use the term(s) when we've new politically correct terms that replace it? Not to mention said newer terms make sense as they name people of the continent (Africa isn't called Negroa and Asia isn't called Orient).
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well I dont, but I could see how 60 year old that wasn't a racist might use it because that's what they grew up using.

Sounds like the OP flew off the handle and blindsided a guy who probably wasn't actually trying to be racist, then that guy responded with calls of his racism by acting badly. Sounds like 2 dudes not wanting to be diplomatic and getting all shouty more than a case of racism IMO.
 
PhantomHound said:
Don't the British call Asian people "oriental" and Indian people Asian?
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I believe they can fight their programming, but that requires a hefty bit of resources to go into the Matrix.

People are responsible for their own words and actions, and being old or living in another country isn't really an excuse. I will concede that in the grander scheme of things, "oriental," "colored," and other "why would you say this in 2014" quaintly Eurocentric terms aren't on the level of more obviously racist vocabulary, but if someone directly in front of you expresses discomfort at their use, just put it back in the box instead of quadrupling down.
 
I had dudes not more than 20 years older than me calling me a colored boy. Behind my back of course. And I'm sure that was once the polite term for Shenandoah Virginny, but it doesn't cut it in the 21st century.

Mineshaft_Gap said:
I'm in 'MURRRICA.
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I figured. since you said apartment and not flat. So why are people defending what they say in the UK? Did this guy have a British accent?
 
AnathemicOne said:
Need citation for bolded. It can't be just asians who are offended of being called of what their ethnic country is. This would be the equivalent of person with France at their ethnic country getting offended at being called French (We must call them personne française!)

I've made the argument before on another thread: Words change over time. Origin is important of course but if the current definition held by many (especially the receiving party) to be offensive, then it's going to be offensive.
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Growing up in Vancouver I've met quite a few Asians who dislike being labeled as Asian. They're Canadian. It's similar to how minorities in America don't want to be seen as African-American or what not (it was a trade-up but can still do better). I don't have actual sources but I do know previous co-workers (who came and still live in South Korea) who didn't like being called Asian either. They were Koreans. People are nuanced this way.

Words do change over time but "oriental" and "asian" are the same word. It's just packaged differently.

I don't call Asians Oriental because I wasn't raised in a region that used that descriptor. I contest that it's really just an over reaction when Asian is the same word and has the exact same meaning. The only real big difference is, and this is widely contested, that white people didn't create Asian; however, oriental was popular long, long ago in the Middle East.

It's a muddy word. You can be offended by it or not, it's just benign and there seems to be a lot of backlash just because.
 
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