Support NeoGAF

[Maintenance]

I understand that the year still have many things left to do, but when there is the chance that two remasters end up with the best scores in the year, I think something strange is happening.

 

[Zakalwe]

It's very safe. Very generic. Very unmemorable.

Very "wider audience".

It's a Sci-Fi Action-RPG where you shoot enemies named "Knight" and "Goblin" and "Wizard", etc to a sweeping, orchestral score with your AI companion voiced by one of television's most popular actors.

Very accurate (aside from the unmemorable part imo).

Destiny adds to more than the sum of those things, and despite them all I'm finding my time with Destiny on par with any number of games with both critically acclaimed design and gameplay.

I can't enjoy the average AAA game. Destiny has something about it that elevates it much higher than that.

If Bungie make the most of this it could end up becoming something very special, if they just run with what they have and simply add more of the same we'll simply be stuck wih a good game instead of a great one.

 

[nynt9]

Did you happen to like Borderlands or Halo? Because in Borderlands, you get quest that are all about the same, "Collect this", "Kill so many of these", "Kill this boss". In Halo, you wait for a flood of enemies to fight through to get to an ending.

What, in your opinion, did you want or expect? A primary RPG?

I thought Borderlands was kinda boring as well but at least they tried to spice it up with wild weapons, there are a lot more enemy types, a more prominent story, vehicle combat and some other things to distract from the monotony. Also there are different quest types, not just "go here and fight waves while your AI companion does its thing".

As for the Halo comparison, come on. Halo has a tight story and tight level design. That's a false equivalence if I've ever seen one.

 

[puffyshirt]

I understand that the year still have many things left to do, but when there is the chance that two remasters end up with the best scores in the year, I think something strange is happening.

Well when you remaster one of the best games ever, you can't excactly give it a lower score haha. High scores or not, I don't really consider Diablo or TLoU:R to be in contention for any GOTY categories (except best remaster)

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Well when you remaster one of the best games ever, you can't excactly give it a lower score haha. High scores or not, I don't really consider Diablo or TLoU:R to be in contention for any GOTY categories (except best remaster)

Sadly, I think he was talking about GTA and MCC. The point remains either way.

 

[Maintenance]

Well when you remaster one of the best games ever, you can't excactly give it a lower score haha. High scores or not, I don't really consider Diablo or TLoU:R to be in contention for any GOTY categories (except best remaster)

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but it shows that we're still quite dependent on the last gen. Next year things might change, I understand, but this year was not what I expected from new IPs.

And I was talking about Master Chief Collection, not Diablo, though.

Sadly, I think he was talking about GTA and MCC. The point remains either way.

TLoU:R and MCC, to be honest. Forgot about GTA.

 

[RespectThySole]

I understand that the year still have many things left to do, but when there is the chance that two remasters end up with the best scores in the year, I think something strange is happening.

Honestly, I expect this to be the case. The only games that have a chance of scoring great enough to at least challenge those are probably

Smash Bros.
Bayonetta 2(this won't win it with the media)
Dragon Age
Sunset Overdrive

The other games are largely "samey" experiences like CoD, AC and Far Cry. Yes, you could make the case Smash Bros. is as well, but Smash tends to score better than those games nowadays and doesn't come out as frequently.

There are also games like Evil Within, Mordor, etc., but I doubt any will score better than the above.

 

[Alebrije]

So not a single game in next-gen has been great critically?

Mario kart

Beaten by Luigi's stare

 

[puffyshirt]

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but it shows that we're still quite dependant on the last gen. Next year things might change, I understand, but this year was not what I expected from new IPs.

And I was talking about Master Chief Collection, not Diablo, though.

Ahh yes. Yeah, this year is an odd one, since devs seem to have really (and not surprisingly) taken to this trend of re-releasing old games at mostly full price. Can't blame them if we keep buying/getting excited about them.

 

[nynt9]

Not a flop but be aware of this:

I'd say this is more accurate

 

[DryvBy]

That's not true for Borderlands, at least BL2 anyways. All the quests have a story to them, voice acting, and comedy. For example, kill yourself and get money, or call the suicide hotline and be a wimp. Go collect flowers for Jacks grandma and

Spoiler

kill the bandits who he hired to murder her so he doesn't have to pay them

. Collect body parts to turn a robot into a human.


The quests in borderlands 2 are extremely varied in their content and intent, unlike Destiny.
I don't think there is a game with more variety really, and considering how much Destiny has been hyped up, it seems pretty sad it can't come close to the amount or variety of content. Heck, the multiplayer isn't even as good, and that was supposed to be the heart of the game.

Borderlands 2 is true as well. Aside from the silliness of why you're doing a quest, they're all about the same. Collect this, turn it in. Kill this, turn it in. Go talk to this guy. After you've cleared out a quest tree for one person, you move to a new world and repeat.

Just because the reasoning is varied and hilarious, doesn't mean it's not repetitive stuff you do the entire game. I'm not complaining, because I love Borderlands 2 (I just recently got the Platinum after 2 years). If the complaint is story, then yes. Borderlands 2 is way better overall with the story. And it makes these repetitive tasks more enjoyable.

 

[ironcreed]

Oh my fucking god...when did an 86 become a game that wasn't considered a critical success? The hyperbole and mentality of some of you guys is embarrassing.

Since big budget games by high profile developers started being hyped as if they were being made by some sort of transcendent beings. Therefore, expectations are such that the final product must be divine upon release. But when reality naturally fails to meet such lofty expectations, the flaws are only that much more glaring. Gamers do this to themselves, unfortunately.

 

[Maintenance]

Ahh yes. Yeah, this year is an odd one, since devs seem to have really (and not surprisingly) taken to this trend of re-releasing old games at mostly full price. Can't blame them if we keep buying/getting excited about them.

I guess they factored the costs (don't know if this is the right expression) of making new games or just porting existing PC versions or already made but unreleased HD textures and stuff and thought that the latter would be more efficient. I don't blame them, people bought those games, so I guess they just followed the money.

 

[Savantcore]

The Guardian review - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/11/destiny-bungie-halo-game-review

 

[alexandros]

I've played Destiny quite a bit now, and only with friends/family. There's still more to do, but I have a pretty good picture now of what the game's about.

It's fun, but I don't think it's possible to give this game a very high score without being intellectually dishonest.

- It feels like "pretending to be an MMO but not really" with its endlessly underbaked social elements. You can't name characters. There are 4 total emotes. You can't even really talk to people. The social elements are underdeveloped. Meeting and forming teams with other players within the confines of the game, who you don't already know and talk to outside the game, is a fool's errand.

- The fragmented, highly modular nature of the worlds and the mission structure kills any idea of this being a real persistent world. There's nothing to explore. You run missions, that's it. And that may be fine, but this isn't how they sold it at their previous E3 presentations. They made it out to be more of an open world experience, which it really, really is not.

- Long load times. Forced cutscenes, even if you already watched them. Sometimes a forced cutscene THEN a long load time. What?

- Can't LOOK at my character while playing in a mission other than by performing one of the four emotes. Why not give me some kind of orbit mode? Even Morrowind had that, and it was single player.

- Classes/characters feel limited with not enough skills or abilities or customization. There are only like 7 faces per race, too. Many games have had far better character customization long before this. For a billion dollar game there's no excuse.

- The gunplay is good, and Halo-like, which you might expect. But that's it. Nothing new or amazing.

It's fun if you bring friends or family along, but it's a total snore if you don't have those. The story is really one of the most unremarkable, uncompelling stories I've seen, and the missions are utterly repetitive (call ghost, fight waves. If on hard, run to the entrance where the enemies don't like to go and pick them off from that spot). The game is boring played alone, and this game that supposedly has the social aspect as one of its main gameplay pillars makes it almost impossible to group up or do things together with randoms. If I don't have a real life (or outside the game) friend to team up with, there's little chance of me being able to team up for anything.

7/10 would be the highest I could ever conceive giving this.

Good review, spot on.

 

[ryanthelion123]

The more I play this game, the more I hope it gets bombed by reviews. For everione saying this is the first in a franchise and giving Bungie a pass, you need to show em what is wrong and there is so much wrong with this game.

 

[puffyshirt]

Borderlands 2 is true as well. Aside from the silliness of why you're doing a quest, they're all about the same. Collect this, turn it in. Kill this, turn it in. Go talk to this guy. After you've cleared out a quest tree for one person, you move to a new world and repeat.

Just because the reasoning is varied and hilarious, doesn't mean it's not repetitive stuff you do the entire game. I'm not complaining, because I love Borderlands 2 (I just recently got the Platinum after 2 years). If the complaint is story, then yes. Borderlands 2 is way better overall with the story. And it makes these repetitive tasks more enjoyable.

This is true, but it's also true of literally every single game ever. What makes Borderlands 2 stand out (and playing Destiny has given me a new appreciation for this about Borderlands) is that they do a pretty decent job of masking those tasks with charm, humor, and story. And more varied areas. EVERY game is repetitive by nature. Every one. The good ones are the ones that hide it, and out of all the faults I had with Borderlands, repetitive missions weren't really one of them because I was excited to see what outlying circumstances each of those missions had.

 

[Bootador83]

There's a reason why a metacritic score is green for >=75 on games, but >=61 on movies & music.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I have so much to criticize about this game. The list is endless but when I sit down and play it I can't put it down. It's so fun and addictive. I guess ultimately that's all that matters.

 

[breakfuss]

The numbers shouldn't matter nearly as much as the content of the reviews. I don't care if someone gives the game a 6 or a 9, it's not going to fix the lack of matchmaking whether they lambast it or hand-wave it. Which is why the "census" thread is pointless, boiling everyone's FPS tastes from last gen down to Love it/Hate it and grading Destiny on a number scale doesn't even attempt to address the gripes that people have with it.

Haha, not stalking you (guess we post at similar times) but you are the same dude who pointed out the lack of matchmaking to me yesterday. I cannot believe it. I finally fired it up last night and sure enough it's only available for strikes. What a STRANGE ass omission. This entire time I thought it was simply an alpha/beta limitation.

I'm really appreciating what Bungie has constructed here and ultimately still like the game so far. It just seems Destiny is a tad lost between a few great ideas. Much less of an MMO than I assumed (in fact, I wouldn't call it that all).

 

[Nestled_Grizzly]

I have so much to criticize about this game. The list is endless but when I sit down and play it I can't put it down. It's so fun and addictive. I guess ultimately that's all that matters.

I agree and I hope Bungie realizes the foundation is there but they need to polish and add more more to the game over time. I think they will and I believe that's what their plan is

 

[Yoda]

I think so too. Recently saw tweets from game journalists being annoyed at some aspects of the game. Reminding me of Watchdogs.

I'm really liking it though.

I think games which hype themselves up this much nowadays are essentially giving themselves an artificial bar to raise too. Granted in Destiny's case the game certainly has its flaws and in my opinion less than perfect scores would be appropriate.

 

[EventHorizon]

Oh my fucking god...when did an 86 become a game that wasn't considered a critical success? The hyperbole and mentality of some of you guys is embarrassing.

Well let's examine those reviews for a second. The highest review, 95, has this huge caveat at the end. Basically he admits that he loves the game (which is perfectly fine), but that that might not be a universal feeling.

However, I very much could see a player being turned off by having to repeat missions, by overly-long boss fights and the very specific storytelling techniques or the fact that everything feels ripped out of a pulpy sci-fi novel that thinks it’s important.

The second highest review, 90, is odd to say the least. For example it has this to say praising the story which he admits that you basically have to make up yourself.

One area that excels past the Halo standard, to me, is the story.
...
It does allow for some player imagination as well. This is a great thing in my eyes. Whenever the player is able to take the world they are playing in and feel connected on a personal plane of storytelling, gaming achieves a whole other sense of wonderment. Which is why MMOs generally are designed for players who are not afraid to expand upon a world with their own imagination.

The story in Destiny is almost pretty universally considered...well horrible would imply that it actually had a story. Not really sure how you can single that out as a major plus. In addition he mentions that he likes the game but other than the story(?) and graphics, he never really says why. He manages to say the Crucible is enjoyable with this stunning level of analysis.

But it is still as enjoyable as the main gameplay even for players that typically shy away from the online multiplayer in games, due to one reason or another. For example, I don’t typically enjoy the way online gaming has molded into this weird social experiment of abusive natures of gamers, and yet I have enjoyed the experiences in the Crucible thus far.

So basically he likes the game, but you'd be hard pressed to say why he thinks anyone else would. I mention all of this just to say that these early reviews aren't very good so don't read to much into them.

 

[Liamc723]

God I really wish I was the one writing the review for Destiny for the website I write for now after completing the game, Destiny is a shining example of a 7(Maybe 6)/10 game.

 

[ironcreed]

I have so much to criticize about this game. The list is endless but when I sit down and play it I can't put it down. It's so fun and addictive. I guess ultimately that's all that matters.

Yeah, I find that to be the hook. The gameplay is great and it is just incredibly addictive to level up, get more abilities and better gear. The story seems to settle in the background as you get hooked on those strengths. As such, it is a great game for what it is. But sure, it has it's flaws.

 

[Zakalwe]

I have so much to criticize about this game. The list is endless but when I sit down and play it I can't put it down. It's so fun and addictive. I guess ultimately that's all that matters.

Exactly.

Although I'm hoping they have plans to do more than just keep us hooked to the gameplay loop.

Come on Bungie...

 

[Jacksinthe]

Yeah, I agree. But I mean compared to like a Cal of Duty (where the whole campaign is pretty much comprised of a singular objective of "move forward") theres a lot more content. More weapons, more gear, more objectives (yes I know that seems unbelievable, but like it or not, there is a lot more to do outside of PvP in Destiny). I think where Destiny falters is its features and design. There's a good suite of PvP maps, weapons, and gear, but there aren't enough modes to play them, and the progression system is arguably not as rewarding.

Eh... I never like comparing games since you can always find a "But X is better than Y at..." And if you are comparing, it IS nothing more than moving forward as an objective. There's no reason to do anything other than ping your next waypoint. There's no point in "exploration" since there literally isn't any. Its just moving from one waypoint to another shooting the exact same bad guys.

Every game should be judged by its own merit and stand on its own legs. In this regard I have no clue where Destiny is trying to stand, honestly. Its soulless, in every degree of the word.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Oh my fucking god...when did an 86 become a game that wasn't considered a critical success? The hyperbole and mentality of some of you guys is embarrassing.

I can understand when people are disappointed or think those scores are too low and Imo it's the reviewers faults. How many mega hyped games seem like the next coming only for it to get an 7-8.5 or something ?? And it turns out the game actually sucks and is like the worst in the series even if the score and review lists it as "good"

Reviewers don't use the full scale or even close when big budget games or sequels to top tier franchises come out. So sometimes a reviewer can spend half the review listing things wrong with the game or it can do a ton of things worse than games that came before and it still gets a seemingly high score but it really isn't that high because generally punches are pulled when slapping a number on big budget franchises.

 

[cleveridea]

Like I said earlier, I think the reaction to the game varies also based on whether you played the beta.

I personally played a TON of the beta, tried all the classes & levelled them up, got to see Earth and the moon, and pretty much tried all the weapon types and basic class abilities.

I probably got 15-20 hours out of the beta which was a ton of fun.

That was only, what, a month ago? So now I have the final game, it is underwhelming because I already experienced all the core gameplay elements and guns. So the game is underwhelming but it would not have been had I not played the beta (eg it would be better if I kept progress from the beta and only experienced new content).

 

[liquidekkah]

11/10? Meh.
Will wait until its $5 on steam.

Reminds me of the "I'll buy a Wii U when it's $99 and comes prepackaged with like 5 games"

 

[Zakalwe]

God I really wish I was the one writing the review for Destiny for the website I write for now after completing the game, Destiny is a shining example of a 7(Maybe 6)/10 game.

How can you review it without trying Raids though? When you try them t in they might be the exact thing you need for everything else to slot into place.

If I were reviewing I would hold off till then.

Like I said earlier, I think the reaction to the game varies also based on whether you played the beta.

I personally played a TON of the beta, tried all the classes & levelled them up, got to see Earth and the moon, and pretty much tried all the weapon types and basic class abilities.

I probably got 15-20 hours out of the beta which was a ton of fun.

That was only, what, a month ago? So now I have the final game, it is underwhelming because I already experienced all the core gameplay elements and guns. So the game is underwhelming but it would not have been had I not played the beta (eg it would be better if I kept progress from the beta and only experienced new content).

I don't know man. I put 40 hours into the beta including pvp, Russia, and the Moon, and really like Destiny.

I don't find it underwhelming at all, which is actually quite surprising to me.

 

[Kysen]

Not liking this game at all, feels like a watered down mmo. Playing solo is even worse. Will be trading in this game asap.

For anyone further in the game, do the missions change in variety other than:

-land on planet
-run/shoot to objective
-use ghost

rinse and repeat? Seems like what we got was a corridor shooter mixed with low level mmo quest structure. No where near as fun as borderlands.

 

[nicoga3000]

I have so much to criticize about this game. The list is endless but when I sit down and play it I can't put it down. It's so fun and addictive. I guess ultimately that's all that matters.

This "review" is the best example of what Destiny boils down to - it's fun to play. I'll probably pick it up again in a few weeks. I just want them to make it easier to play and enjoy with friends and randoms alike.

 

[jem0208]

I'd say this is more accurate

Yeah, the previous one was far too kind.


Anything less than a 6 is god awful nowadays.

 

[jaxpunk]

God I really wish I was the one writing the review for Destiny for the website I write for now after completing the game, Destiny is a shining example of a 7(Maybe 6)/10 game.

Psh that's not how you get clicks and I don't even write for a website.

2/10 it killed my cat.

 

[K' Dash]

Like I said earlier, I think the reaction to the game varies also based on whether you played the beta.

I personally played a TON of the beta, tried all the classes & levelled them up, got to see Earth and the moon, and pretty much tried all the weapon types and basic class abilities.

I probably got 15-20 hours out of the beta which was a ton of fun.

That was only, what, a month ago? So now I have the final game, it is underwhelming because I already experienced all the core gameplay elements and guns. So the game is underwhelming but it would not have been had I not played the beta (eg it would be better if I kept progress from the beta and only experienced new content).

Thats why the beta sat there unplayed, I played the alpha 20 hours O didnt want to spoil the game even more.

 

[ironcreed]

My biggest knock on the game has to be the weak mission structure. You can only deploy your ghost and survive the waves of enemies so many times before you realize that there is a real lack of creativity here. That said, it is still very fun to play.

 

[Liamc723]

How can you review it without trying Raids though? When you try them t in they might be the exact thing you need for everything else to slot into place.

If I were reviewing I would hold off till then.

1 raid won't change my opinion of the game buddy, I have far too many problems with Destiny.

 

[Ruprit]

I know the leaked contract between Bungie and Activision is old now and anything in it may be moot at this point.

But, if I recall, wasn't part of Bungie's bonuses hinging on an agreed upon metacritic that was very lofty (94+ or something)? The sales are guaranteed at this point, but do you think Bungie will make some drastic changes to the series to try and get the aggregate score higher?

 

[WGMBY]

This "review" is the best example of what Destiny boils down to - it's fun to play. I'll probably pick it up again in a few weeks. I just want them to make it easier to play and enjoy with friends and randoms alike.

Yep, I think I'm going to take my time with Destiny, make the content stretch a bit longer.

 

[puffyshirt]

If anyhting, Destiny is a solid foundation that should make for a hell of a Destiny 2. This is the exact same game as Assassin's Creed, a flawed game that was still fun because of sheer ambition and clever ideas. Guaranteed Bungie is looking at and noting everything that isn't working with this game.

And at the end of the day, I'm still really enjoying it, so the idea of the sequel being better in every way is just icing.

 

[Zakalwe]

1 raid won't change my opinion of the game buddy, I have far too many problems with Destiny.

There's a little phrase called "more than the sum" and you need all the parts to know if that's the case.

No one can be 100% sure before it all comes together.

 

[Maintenance]

I know the leaked contract between Bungie and Activision is old now and anything in it may be moot at this point.

But, if I recall, wasn't part of Bungie's bonuses hinging on an agreed upon metacritic that was very lofty (94+ or something)? The sales are guaranteed at this point, but do you think Bungie will make some drastic changes to the series to try and get the aggregate score higher?

It might be old now, but if the metacritic score is true then I wonder what would happen. Probably nothing though, since the game sold bajillions.

 

[Liamc723]

There's a little phrase called "more than the sum" and you need all the parts to know if that's the case.

No one can be 100% sure before it all comes together.

How would a raid affect my opinion on the complete lack of a decent story and my disappointment with the PvP?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The Guardian review - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/11/destiny-bungie-halo-game-review

In short, the infrastructural brilliance hides a conservative game design ideology. Each story mission begins with some dryly intoned lore, then you run to a location, reach a choke point, shoot stuff, progress a little, new choke point, shoot stuff. Peter Dinkage decides he has to access a mainframe, so you shoot waves of monsters while he’s doing that. Then the mission is over. It is highly conventional old-school shooter level design.

Elsewhere, the Patrol quests offer some free-roaming fun, and exploring these spectacular planets is a real rush for a few hours. Then you discover that the eerie landscapes are largely empty, save for groups of regenerating baddies and some “collect-ten-of-these-things” side-quests. Unlike Grand Theft Auto V’s bustling domain, these are but cruelly beautiful theatrical sets. It is like being trapped in an interplanetary Truman Show.

That’s all fine, really it is, but it’s not new. The Last of Us shifted narrative shooters to a new level; the role-playing shooter Borderlands mixed blast-’em-up idiocy with character progression in a more daring and anarchic way. Ubisoft’s forthcoming collaborative strategy blaster Tom Clancy’s The Division is also promising to innovate on co-op play. Destiny is bigger than all of them, but somehow, the sum breaks down in the act of playing.

This echoes what a lot of people have been saying in this thread and the OT. They don't seem to have any problems with the communication aspect though.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

How can you review it without trying Raids though? When you try them t in they might be the exact thing you need for everything else to slot into place.

If I were reviewing I would hold off till then.

You kind of have to review what you have though, don't you? Otherwise, it's just moving goal posts to 'wait for this patch' or 'wait for this DLC'. Now I agree, I do hope that they wait for the raid, but I don't see these big sites getting past Monday or Tuesday without getting their reviews up.

Also keep in mind that the Raid isn't going to change the fundamental issues in regards to social features, drive in doing missions, lack of depth to the world/npcs.

Perhaps it will be enough to transcend the mission design arguments, but that's just one raid in comparison to the other 90% of the game when factoring in Sword of Crota and other missions that get close to breaking the mold but don't quite get there. Same goes for the loot drop issues. You get a guaranteed drop of unique armor pieces and weapons, but that doesn't change the issues for the rest of the game's content.

The amount of content isn't really the issue. It's how it is executed and the underlying features.

 

[Zakalwe]

How would a raid affect my opinion on the complete lack of a decent story and my disappointment with the PvP?

How do you know it won't make them not as big a deal because it brings all the pve mechanics together in a way you find much more satisfying?

Nothing's ever surprised you like that?

You kind of have to review what you have though, don't you? Otherwise, it's just moving goal posts to 'wait for this patch' or 'wait for this DLC'. Now I agree, I do hope that they wait for the raid, but I don't see these big sites getting past Monday or Tuesday without getting their reviews up.

Also keep in mind that the Raid isn't going to change the fundamental issues in regards to social features, drive in doing missions, lack of depth to the world/npcs.

Perhaps it will be enough to transcend the mission design arguments, but that's just one raid in comparison to the other 90% of the game when factoring in Sword of Crota and other missions that get close to breaking the mold but don't quite get there. Same goes for the loot drop issues. You get a guaranteed drop of unique armor pieces and weapons, but that doesn't change the issues for the rest of the game's content.

The amount of content isn't really the issue. It's how it is executed and the underlying features.

The Raid is endgame. A game like this really needs endgame for it to make sense.

I didn't ever suggest the addition of a raid would fix the flaws. I said it might be what the game needs for those things to not feel so consequential to you.

For example, I really don't like the lack of chat and social options and the terrible story, but the pvp and co-op gameplay make me forget about the issues I have and everything just comes together for me.

Maybe the raid is the thing that will do that for others.

You can't know that till it happens.

As I said "more than the sum" is something to consider, and you can't know for sure till you have all the parts to add together.

 

[Z3M0G]

It's very safe. Very generic. Very unmemorable.

Very "wider audience".

It's a Sci-Fi Action-RPG where you shoot enemies named "Knight" and "Goblin" and "Wizard", etc to a sweeping, orchestral score with your AI companion voiced by one of television's most popular actors.

Perfectly stated. This game feels like a list of checked checkboxes.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

How do you know it won't make them not as big a deal because it brings all the pve mechanics together in a way you find much more satisfying?

Nothing's ever surprised you like that?

Were talking a raid here. Not a major change to game mechanics, explorable locations or extensive additions to loot etc. I don't think end game+ content like raids matter that much to the normal gaming public.

 

[Dubz]

Absolutely love the gunplay and art design.

Absolutely frustrated with the lack of matchmaking and communication limitations.