SlickShoes
Member
I can only hope we bin that licence fee model and sell subscriptions to folk that want it, it's 2014 I can do without a £10 a month subscription to a couple of shit TV channels and some mediocre radio stations.
Scottish Independence Referendum |OT| 18 September 2014 [Up: NO wins]
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
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I can only hope we bin that licence fee model and sell subscriptions to folk that want it, it's 2014 I can do without a £10 a month subscription to a couple of shit TV channels and some mediocre radio stations.
MilkyJoe
Member
I was pissing by the wondow...
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Reality is going to hit you like a sack of shit.
The free state, and de valeras culchie shithole was fucking anarchy.
It's fucking hilarious that some separatist still think we are going to do some deal to get easy entry into the EU, or that Spain and the other 24 countries needing to agree to it will somehow bend over backwards to accommodate us.
They said as much again last night http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5827658
They said as much again last night http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5827658
The idea is for Scotland to negotiate its membership of the EU while in the UK. That way it would continue as it is seamlessly. Of course there's the risk you brought up that maybe the process will take longer than expected, and that is indeed a risk.Hmm, I looked this up and turns out it's true, I never knew this but now I do. However, I've read that joining the EU is a long and tedious process so for at least for that time period international fees will apply affecting those 16 year olds, who are capable of voting. And furthermore, this is assuming Scotland joins the EU. There are countries such as Spain with their own separatist movements and could potentially veto Scotland for joining to set an example, even the UK could veto Scotland from joining if it really wanted to. For me, this is a position I would hate to be in.
But actually, right now English universities can charge whatever they like to Scottish students, just as Scottish universities do to English students. In fact only by becoming independent will Scottish students -protect- their right to be charged the same as English students!
That's without even considering that the UK may vote to leave the EU in a referendum much more popular in other parts of the UK than Scotland - which would be devastating for EU research grants and the Erasmus programme at Scottish universities. A 'No' vote is not an option without its own risks.
They're politicians indeed. Very good at lying - and I don't even think they'll be caught out on this. 'Scottish students will not have to pay fees' is very particular wording, if you see what I'm getting at. Maybe those who can afford it will have to pay something else later.
It doesn't actually matter whether I'm for or against nuclear weapons (I am against, for the record) - what matters is the cost of them to us and what the money could be spent on. Trident costs £2000 every minute to maintain. NATO already has nuclear weapons and the idea that they wouldn't protect the UK or Scotland isn't even worth considering, never mind thinking of Russia nuking us.Basically, I agree with all your points apart from Trident (and the voting YES part
The only reason Trident exists is prestige. It's a 200 billion pound ticket to a seat on the UN Security Council, and the last hold over of the empire. It has no use other than that.
Personally, I prefer doctors, teachers and securing the future for our children than international elitism.
Politicians don't set their own wage.
really really
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Stick to the class warfare, you know nothing about Trident.
You forgot to mention the free pixies, unicorns and rainbows for all Scottish people.
No it wasn't.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Yeah, about that, I guess Salmond needs to impose the sovereign will of the Scottish people on Spain.
This guy has said that about 20 times now - and it holds as much truth as a UK's pound bluff. Do they seriously expect anyone to believe they will cut off 6 million people and the entirety of Scottish waters from the Spanish economy, which has a massive fishing industry? It'd be the definition of cutting of your nose to spite your face.Yeah, about that, I guess Salmond needs to impose the sovereign will of the Scottish people on Spain.
They've even been setting the scene for their back track with the claims that situation in Scotland and Catalonia are different, as the Scottish case proceeded 'in accordance with the legal and institutional procedures of the UK, while Catalonia's wouldn't. - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/977a39ea-8c...n=uk&siteedition=uk&_i_referer=#axzz3DUPJTGZI
No one with any credibility seriously believes Spain will block Scotland's entry to the UK.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...-veto-an-independent-scotlands-eu-membership/
JonathanEx
Member
My guess is that it's more likely to follow the Irish model. The Irish government have a commercial deal with the BBC to allow access to their services, and then you have a separate PSB - such as RTE. How Scotland fund both of those is up to them - license fee, ads, combination of both.
MilkyJoe
Member
Nato does not have like a Justice League flying castle or something. UK is Nato, France is Nato, Canada is Nato, US is Nato, all 12 members are Nato are all in it together, you can't just one day decide that we don't want to fund our share anymore. And if you have not noticed, the UK is kind of on Russia's doorstep, by the time those missiles in Kansas are ready to fly it would be all over for us, and maybe they would call off the launch because the Russins would just launch against the US...?? There is no black and white when you are dealing with a mad man... And even if it does cost £2000 a minute, that is 0.000033p per person in the UK per minute or £1214 per person, per lifetime, out of their taxes, assuming they live an average of 70 years - I pay more than that a month in taxes. I'm already paid up for my nuclear protection. numbers in the thousanads are not comparible when you are dividing by the contributions of 10s and 10s of millions. Have some perspective
Are you referring to Osiris's quote directly above you? You think Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, is bothered which way the Scots go in terms of their membership? If you are, why would he scaremonger or bluff? They've no horse in this race.
nelsonroyale
Member
Is it not tax payers money that is been channelled into a hyper-expensive, hyper-destructive, and hyper-underutilised weapon that has zero demonstratable net positive effect for the average citizen of the UK is it? In fact, since you like it and I don't how about you pay my share? Because I see fuck all positive reasons why wen should have such a useless piece of junk. The balance of power argument is misleading because none of the major players will even countenance disarmement because no one will be the first to make a move. Britain advocating disarmament (rather than just harrying those other who want a piece of the pie) would be a progressive step.
Nato is effectively US and its bully boys. Give me a example of when Nato has ever gone against US interests. This is considering the US has had many foreign affair fuck-ups.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
..fixed.
Yeah, about that, I guess Salmond needs to impose the sovereign will of the Scottish people on Spain.
Except there is no evidence to suggest Scotland will even be leaving the EU at all. Scotland is leaving the UK, not EU. Spain is just trying to scare Scottish voters to try and dampen down its own secessionist movements. It's not the first time these neo-Francoists have tried to subvert democracy.
As the former UK ambassador to NATO has already said, the idea that NATO will allow the entirety of the north part of the British isles and the North Atlantic to become this unprotected territory open to the Russians by denying Scotland membership is ridiculous.
I'm not opposed to joining NATO, I'm opposed to paying for Trident. These are not co-requisites. Not sure how much clearer I can make that.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Nationalism has killed far more people in the world the last 70yrs than any nuclear weapon..
nelsonroyale
Member
Precisely.
...I have even got friends who think Scotland won't be able to join the E.U. at all...
DeFiBkIlLeR: What is that even supposed to me? Do you mean attachment to a cause? That is incredibly basic analysis...How can you even compare the two? There is rightful fear of nukes. Even governments haven't been stupid enough to ignore the warnings of experts and the public, as well as their own reasoning, to nuke's destructiveness.
If you are talking about Scottish Nationalism however, I don't think many people have been killed in the last 70 years as a direct or indirect result. Nationalistic expression is generally and umbrella term in which many diverse motivations are expressed. I mean to say that the Nazi aggressions in Europe were merely a result of nationalistic tendencies is incredibly basic.
Of course it matters to him. Two of the richest regions in his country have been dying to leave for decades. Catalonia is planning their own referendum. He'll say anything that'll scare them into staying.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Scotland is not a sovereign member of the EU, The UK is the sovereign member of the EU, Scotland is leaving the UK, the UK is the continuing member state of the EU.
It's not rocket science...you leave the UK, you leave the EU.
AHA-Lambda
Member
I think he was being sarcastic.
They're surprisingly expensive.
It's actually probably cheaper to co-produce some shitter new programming in exchange for broadcast rights.
Its the whole point of the European project, being part of one union.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Like Scotland being part of the UK union?
You're just being silly now.
Isolationist Little Britain? No thanks.
We're not nationalists. We're internationalists.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
How many people have been killed by a nuclear weapon since WWII ?...none.
How many people died in Yugoslavia, nationalism in full flow....tens of thousands.
Lots more examples out there..
Absolutely. Spain wants an independent Scotland like a hole in the head. It has done everything possible within the confines of diplomatic niceties to prevent a no vote in order to dissuade Catalans from declaring independence.
The whole point of it was the idea we would all be part of a union in Europe where we wouldn't worry about what countries we lived in but be European. Sucks that it seems to have failed
nelsonroyale
Member
I don't know if he realises just how difficult deaths by nationalism would be to quantify...
He is comparing death by a specific weapon, to an extremely broad ideological modivation...never heard that one before.
They should give Scotland like a year or two trial period for this independence thing. Not short enough that you won't run into problems, but not short enough that you don't have a chance to address some of them.
And then after that expires, they can either come back or stay independent.
I think that works well for everyone. I should be the king of stuff.
And then after that expires, they can either come back or stay independent.
I think that works well for everyone. I should be the king of stuff.
MilkyJoe
Member
UK is a rich country , why should they not pay their way in a multi national alliance.
Again, see the maths, it's a pittance when divided by the tax contribution of 60 million and growing, population.
That £2000 a minute will be all outgoing expenditure including;
- All personel assigned to the program, country wide
- All building and land costs and the associated costs - Electricity, gas, land rent if applicable.
- Maintenance of all mechanical parts of the program, missiles, submarines etc...
- Everything else...
The EU is a confederation and proto nation itself. It would be like when West Virginia split off from Virginia, it still carried on being part of the US. You cannot unilaterally revoke EU citizenship to 5 million people
Of course. iScotland won't be blocked from entering the EU, as that would be counter productive for all involved. What is up for debate, however, are the conditions of entry. I find it unlikely that there would be a lot of support, within the EU, for letting iScotland in through Article 48, and keeping all the UK opt outs in place.
I can't wait to follow Alex Salmond's call to arms. When do the SNP start supplying the rifles and semtex?
I agree. There will have to be some compromise, and it will come in the form of losing those opt outs in return for not adopting the Euro. Just my guess though - Scotland will have a pretty decent negotiating team! Salmond, Darling, Brown, Alexander et al..
I had an ex in Glasgow. Coming back and trying to spend even those notes can be a nightmare. Thank fuck for self-service checkouts that read them.
How many millions died because of British nationalist imperialism?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Who would like some REFERENDUM STUDIO PORN? In the BBC's Scottish HQ...
Get Peter Snow in front of that big Yes/No screen suspended on a bungee rope
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
lol..EU citizenship is only conferred on the peoples of member states, Scotland is leaving a member state.
You can spin & twist it all you like within the confines of a nationalistic echo chamber, but it cuts no ice in the real world.
He can bounce up and down in time to the poll data.
Is US citizenship conferred on people solely for residing in a US state?
JonathanEx
Member
I'm going to suggest to my friend there that they get Jeremy Vine to do it instead of the usual greenscreen.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
haha..the butt hurt agenda is revealed.
Scotland profited from the Empire very nicely thank you very much. They were some of the most ardent colonial expansionists out there.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Is an apple an orange?
Peter Snow is retired I believe. Get his son Dan Snow on it instead. I could just imagine the incessant sobbing from the Brit nationalist when Scotland votes aye.
I can't remember the source now, but say Scotland does eventually get into the EU, it could take up to 8-10 years which is way beyond 2016 for when Scotland is to go independent if YES wins. TBH I don't understand your point, could you expand where Scottish residents need protecting within UK universities - all Scottish students I've met have paid exactly the same as any other UK citizen.
It is a shame because I know they won't be caught out on this, furthermore I do get what you're saying but how will that affect the amount of UK citizens going to Scottish universities once it becomes a foreign country (and thus affect the Universities revenues)? Additionally, for the *free* education 130,000 university places are cut per year.
I don't understand people who are against Nuclear Weapons, one could argue that it's been the most pivotal invention of the maintenance of world peace, look at history pre nuclear weapons.
Yes Trident is expensive, however it's of my opinion that the cost of the deterrent is justified. I wish we lived in a perfect world where Nuclear Weapons weren't needed and as you rightly said the money could be spent more wisely but I've come to grow out of my naivety, the world is more like Command & Conquer.
You don't find it slightly ironic that you lambast nationalism despite the British being some of the fiercest nationalists out there?
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