Maybe but I'd still be voting yes.
Scottish Independence Referendum |OT| 18 September 2014 [Up: NO wins]
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
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Do you see how well Scotland has prospered after a British Labour Government? How they repaired the damage done by years of Conservative rule?
It didn't happen. Why would it happen now?
I've changed, the dinosaur screamed.
CyclopsRock
Member
History? The Tories flittered between being the most popular and 2nd most popular GE seat count party throughout the whole of the 20th century with the exception of a single election. "History" shows that Scotland is as happy to vote Tory as any other part of the country, in fact sometimes more so. The Scottish hatred of the Tories is a very - relatively - recent occurrence and really nothing to do with "history" at all.
JonathanEx
Member
So all three polls tonight have 52% No / 48% Yes.
Gonna be tight.
Gonna be tight.
They may not have a mandate but why is it that everyone thinks that there is virtually no Tory vote in Scotland.
Lets have a laugh. Who would expect the following
Labour 1,035,528
SNP 491,386
Liberal Democrat 465,471
Conservative 412,855
Say hello to the 2010 general election in Scotland.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
If kmag's data is true, then Scotland is the 3rd richest of the UK's 12 regions, so presumably they did fairly well?
I never claimed it wasn't relatively new but thanks for sharing.
Labour aren't a socialist party any more. Christ, when they're not apeing the Tories they're trying ineptly to outdo them at the minute.
While Scots had a lot to do with New Labour (which was probably inevitable that Scots in safe Labour seats would free more comfortable moving the party), New Labour itself has seen a gradual erosion of Labours strongholds mostly in Scottish and Local elections, but also a bit in the general elections. New Labour isn't terribly popular up here, tribal politics, traditional heartlands yadda yadda still get them the votes but there's a lot of grumblings within the party themselves.
Of course Scottish Labour has been led by a succession of crooks and clowns for a while now which hasn't helped.
How many seats was that sorry?
CyclopsRock
Member
Well the word history sort of implies old. But either way, the Tories aren't without their supporters in Scotland.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
So, to sum: Scotland has to leave because the Conservatives are a) the natural part of country, and b) Scotland doesn't like them, despite the fact that the Conservatives aren't the natural party of government and when they were, Scotland did like them?
The idea is that the top 3 of those parties are all fighting over the same voters, 2+ million of them, while the Tories consistently pull their 300-500k. In the rest of the UK the opposite is true - only when the left unite under Labour and the Tory vote dissolves do they lose.
I said history for natural party of govt, never even mentioned Scotland previously voting Tory pre thatcher.
I'll take a stab at it:
d)Labour turned into Tory lite after being dominated by Scottish duo for a decade.
This is one of the reasons a lot of independence campaigners, Scottish and English, believe that what would happen to Labour after independence would be good for England as they rediscover their vote without safe Scottish seats.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
d) no more so than the Tartan Tories, so really, where does that leave us? I mean, accusing the other time of being Tory lite when yours is the side trying to cut corporation tax and hide behind Murdoch is pretty rich.
And we can get old labour back up here
Sorry, but it's a fact that even Scottish Labour are to the right of the SNP.
Poor effort must pay more attention. I'm not snp
Maybe so, but I don't think Labour did enough while in power. Scotland has been an afterthought for UK Labour as opposed to a Scottish Labour trying to do the best for them.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Poor effort must pay more attention. I'm not snp
Doesn't matter. My point is that you seem to think that voting 'Yes' will get you away from Tories and Tory lite. It won't - it'll just get you the Tartan Tories, and on a pretty permanent basis.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Like what? What was supposed to happen? Seriously, in your vision of the world, how did things ideally progress for Scotland between 1997 and 2010?
killer_clank
Member
yup:
No one is arguing that as everyone knows that Scotland swings to the left. Its just funny that after all the acting of everyone hates the Tories, yet they pull about 17% of the vote.
That indicates it probably actually is too close to tell. Murdoch doesn't like to back a loser, and while they've been pro-independence to a point they've always left themselves enough wiggle room to switch to no.
The Sun is going "neutral" with one of the worst front pages you'll ever have the misfortune to see.
It's one of the weaker pieces he's done, makes me wonder if everything else he does is as poor if you're familiar with the subject matter.
I disagree Completly with that caricature but even if that was the case we wouldn't have the problem of a govt with 1 or 0 seats ruling us. Self determination ahoy!
We could also get rid of them easier without little englanders in the home counties voting for them no matter what,
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting thing about that Survation poll, Yes side seemingly converting the majority of undecided voters:
Uh, no. That's not how that works, at all. All the they do to produce the second graph is take the undecided voters out of the first. It doesn't make any assumptions about what undecided voters will do, it literally just assumes they don't vote at all.
Watch: NO = 47.7, then 47.7/(100-8.3) = 52.0174%
YES = 44.1, then 44.1/(100-8.3) = 48.092%
A whole 17% and no seats. All that Tory love
QuicheFontaine
Member
Says its not available in the UK...
The Librarian
Banned
17% of the vote is hardly anything to be proud of.
Exactly
..what?
I'm comparing it to the last poll, using the figures in the first graph.
Yes +1.7
No +0.1
Don't Know -1.6
Don't use that tone with me.
Lol
The SNP could hardly be described as the Tartan Tories these days. Apart from the corporation tax cut their actual policies couldn't be more different. They're clearly centre-left overall, certainly on social policy, economic policy is still majority centre-left despite some neoliberal tendencies and policies.
And if the electoral system remains the same, the chances of a permanent one party government in Scotland is next to nil. And if independence is achieved the SNP will almost certainly fracture the next time they're out of office.
I see you must be one of those "you get what you vote for" people...
Well, as long as its who you vote for. Democratic my arse
And when Sturgron takes over they will be near full on socialist
nelsonroyale
Member
I find it rather bizarre how there are some who bang on about the Yes campaign being nationalistic (as a negative) but then going on about being British as if that is not also inherently nationalistic. British rather than European, British rather than a globalist. It is still a nationalistic identity. It is like those people who are White Scottish or English who claim they have no ethnicity.
Ding-Ding - You realise they have the first past the post system in England as well...a shitty system.
Ding-Ding - You realise they have the first past the post system in England as well...a shitty system.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
yup:
what the fuck am I reading
Lol sorry your point about Tories not being hated up here was destroyed by your own source.
I disagree. I thought he explained the issue pretty well, especially for people who are not familiar with the event in question. The stereotypical jokes are just for laughs, a little pinch of salt (for a lack of a better term) to go with his explanation of what's going on with the situation.
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