Scottish Independence Referendum |OT| 18 September 2014 [Up: NO wins]

Where do you stand on the issue of Scottish independence?

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TheAdventuresofSteph said:
The point is, you cant negotiate fairy after independence, when vital questions have not been answered before hand. I would want to know if i will still be considered British if i get independence, I would want to know what are the ramifications on retail prices , i would want to know if my bills will go up or stay the same.

Its like saying shoot now ask later, which is the gamble that many scots people are taking.
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You could find out most of that if you dont some research yourself.

You will remain British because you were born in Britain, you retain a British passport. Your children will also be both British and Scottish due to you being British.

No one knows about retail prices, some companies suggest increases others suggest no difference.

what do you mean by "will my bills go up"? Are we talking about council tax? electricity? gas? oil? petrol? food?

Anyone that cares to be informed has asked or at least looked for answers on these points by now surely.
 
SlickShoes said:
Fair enough but it's still a ridiculous statement, many people have taken time off work to campaign or perhaps they do shift work? That doesn't fit your agenda though.

The electorate is never going to be informed enough to be 100% confident in either side, you have SNP that can't 100% guarantee anything because a YES vote is a step in to the unknown and you have Labour actively campiagning with the slogan "If you don't know, vote no".

People should be encouraged to seek out as much information as they can not blindly told to accept the status quo because their tiny brains can't handle it.

The NO movement can't guarantee anything either, neither side can, the no folk are the ones in power now and they can't even agree on further devolution never mind actually get it through parliament when the time comes.
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In any situation such as this, the onus tends to be on the side that is arguing for the step into the unknown to provide reasoning and answers to questions that people have doubts about.

Of course there will be scenarios where this is not possible, at least not to the extent where a guarantee can be made. And there will be many where politically it is not a wise decision despite the fact that it might be in the public's interest.

At the same time, "we'll find out!" is not really a suitable position to take and it is a fair criticism of the Yes campaign. We will find out tomorrow whether the SNP have provided enough answers to these questions, in the eyes of the Scottish public.
 
SlickShoes said:
You could find out most of that if you dont some research yourself.

You will remain British because you were born in Britain, you retain a British passport. Your children will also be both British and Scottish due to you being British.

No one knows about retail prices, some companies suggest increases others suggest no difference.

what do you mean by "will my bills go up"? Are we talking about council tax? electricity? gas? oil? petrol? food?

Anyone that cares to be informed has asked or at least looked for answers on these points by now surely.
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Unfortunately these questions have not been addressed, It is stepping into the Unknown that is why many banks and businesses have even come out and said what the ramifications will be, and its not positive.
 
Arksy said:
This vote seems kind of ridiculous, shouldn't they be posing a sort of model to the people....as in...here is a constitution...rather than asking a wishy washy question that will probably be subject to a stitch up?
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No? Question of whether to be governed by your countrymen or foreigners in London is separate from the minutiæ of the constitution and again separate from the question of who will govern.

Three separate questions with three separate answers that can come at three separate times.
 
Hey Scottish Independence gang,

I wanna say thank you all. This has been one of the best threads on GAF this year. I've learned a lot! I've laughed, I've cried, I've changed the way I felt about certain things and had others somewhat cemented. I'm grateful for the (almost entirely) cordial manner in which this emotional and contentious issue has been discussed in great detail by people from all over the political spectrum and from difference sides of the issue, and it's been a joy to see it get bumped every time I check my Subscriptions! So thank you all, and whatever happens with the vote tomorrow, I'm glad that we all got to experience the glorious flow of democracy in action.
 
It's interesting that the Thread Poll gauges opinion from National and International GAF and the figures aren't THAT far off the official opinion polls being taken solely here. Naturally more undecided on account of not being submersed in TV / News / print Arguments
 
CyclopsRock said:
Hey Scottish Independence gang,

I wanna say thank you all. This has been one of the best threads on GAF this year. I've learned a lot! I've laughed, I've cried, I've changed the way I felt about certain things and had others somewhat cemented. I'm grateful for the (almost entirely) cordial manner in which this emotional and contentious issue has been discussed in great detail by people from all over the political spectrum and from difference sides of the issue, and it's been a joy to see it get bumped every time I check my Subscriptions! So thank you all, and whatever happens with the vote tomorrow, I'm glad that we all got to experience the glorious flow of democracy in action.
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Definitely. Cheers!
 
JonathanEx said:
Got my YouGov daily poll today asking for predictions... To the nearest 1%. Exiting. Shall we set something up here?
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Definitely!We can just have one post that gets edited with new posters' predictions.

I'm gonna be bold and say 57 No, 43 Yes.

--------

Predictions:

70 NO 30 YES - Acorn
60 NO 40 YES - Seanbob11, fizzelopeguss, industrian
58 NO 42 YES - Busty, APZonerunner
57 NO 43 YES - CyclopsRock, RulkezX, abunai, Polari
56 NO 44 YES - Kotetsu534, Uzzy
55 NO 45 YES - Arksy, liquidtmd, i_am_ben, QuicheFontaine, maquiladora, Nicktendo86, Bubblicious
54 NO 46 YES - Osiris, BadHand, infi, cartesian, Camp Freddie, Mastadon, Willy Wanka, Vivalaraza, elty, gollumsluvslave
53 NO 47 YES - AHA-Lambda, Rodhull, Irminsul, CRD90, amchardy, Crab
52 NO 48 YES - JonathanEx, Panelbase, Zeeman
51 NO 49 YES - _DrMario_, SlickShoes, chancellor
51 YES 49 NO - Ashes, shorty_symd, killer_clank, CharmingCharlie, Sir Fragula, ANuclearError, Mr RHC,
52 YES 48 NO - Masquerader, Kathian, nelsonroyale, Kinky John, Pankratous
53 YES 47 NO - Randomizer
54 YES 46 NO - Faddy, Gumball, Sage00, Nilaul
56 YES 44 NO - jimbor
57 YES 43 NO - 8bit
 
52 Yes, 49 No. That's what I think.

Bear in mind that this is what I think will occur, not what I WANT to occur. I do hope that other people think that, too.
 
JonathanEx said:
Got my YouGov daily poll today asking for predictions... To the nearest 1%. Exiting. Shall we set something up here?
Click to expand...

I'm going with 58%
No
and 42%
Yes
.

I really do feel like there is a chunk of the voting public out there that are already decided to vote
No
and haven't made their voice known publicly at this point at all.
 
Already posted mine, but again, for completeness:

54 No
46 Yes
 
52 yes.
Polls suggest a No but I don't believe the idea that in a normal election the people who don't vote would vote in line with the rest of the electorate who do.

So many DKs at a late stage so I'll predict against the mean for the excitement :)
 
CyclopsRock said:
And his hidden Nigerian origin.
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Scottish Independence – Stand and be counted

I think it is time to draw the physical line. Scottish Independence Referendum will be out in September and I think there is going to be a lot of trolls crying here. Either way when the verdict comes out this forum will likely be on fire. So in order to try to put it out some gasoline on this fire I will ask those interested to stand up and be counted.

I feel Independence is a great thing, likely to be better than most things that will come out this year. I certainly feel it is the best thing we have ever done. I also believe the Yes and No alike will believe this. This puts me in the “Yes” camp.

I know there are many who feel strongly in opposite camp. I also would ask you to stand up and say “No”.

When the game is released and everyone plays game all the speculation will be over. If I am wrong and gamers in general think the game is “crap” then I am comfortable with getting tagged “Owned by the Darling”.

However, if I am right and it is received well, I would like to see those “No” to be tagged with “Owned by Salmond”.

I would like to make a honorary invitation to Cameron and Miliband who help fuel the fire on a regular basis – assuming you both would be “Against”. In the end though, it is your decision and I want to remind everyone that I have an advantage of actually trying Independence.

So it’s time to be stand and be counted:

Alex Salmond - “Yes”
 
From the BBC:
Clegg: Change Scottish MP rules

Posted at 14:36
Changes to the rules on Scottish MPs voting on England-only measures should be brought in at the same time as Scotland gets more control over tax and spending, Deputy PM Nick Clegg says.

Allowing Scottish MPs to vote on English matters "is simply not fair", the Lib Dem leader told LBC Radio.

UK leaders have promised new powers to Scotland if there's a No vote. But First Minister Alex Salmond says only independence would deliver the powers Scotland needs.
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What a cluster****. Having a British parliament that passes England-only measures and excluding Scottish MPs. Talk about a wake-up call for federalism.
 
Okay, seems I am entirely partial on this count and predictions are up in the air anyway. I am going to go with 52 Yes 48 No.

Perhaps if I was a distanced from this process my predictions might be otherwise.

I will post my final reasoning why a vote for independence was pretty much a no-brainer for me personally given the options on the table later.

I also believe the discussion in here has been largely similar to the discussion in the wider public. Passion, but very little serious 'drama' aside from on the fringes. I mean the fact that the Orange March didn't even kick of a storm of shit is credit to people's forebarence in general.
 
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