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[Grief.exe]

She plays Nintendoland, Animal Crossing and Mario Kart 8.

I can live with it if that's all I can get her to play lol

Just be thankful she plays video games at all.

Mine hates them.

 

[depths20XX]

Whether it's true or not, it's none of our business.

Yes, but if you do shitty things, people will think you're shitty.

I really don't know anything about this girl though.

 

[Vlade]

I don't like her very much, but I do feel bad for her and what happened. I do really dislike that she called out other game's journalists and said they were anti-feminist and made targets out of them too though. She basically took what was happening to her and set it upon others who weren't involved. Obviously you're not going to make great decisions with that much stress, but let's just say that no one really came out smelling like roses, justified or not.

Nope.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

I've avoided commenting but kept up with the drama. Everyone plays a part even the gamers who are calling her out....on pretty much something very trivial. Everything that stemmed from it(#GamerGate) doesn't really benefit anyone. A lot the stuff comes from the vocal minority(as always).

None of my business what Zoe does. Couldn't give a shit about the rest.

 

[FieryBalrog]

It's interesting to see the hysterical self-righteousness and fevered piety of these "social media campaigns" achieve the critical mass required to implode in a storm of screaming and finger-pointing.

Who can bear the biggest cross? Who gets to yell the loudest? What salvation issue is at stake in today's drama? Stay tuned.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Nope.

IMO, some of the worst responses have been "Look, BOTH sides look equally bad because..."

 

[Feonix]

It's about how she slept with guys to advance her career and corruption in the industry. She's playing the victim and she has a fund setup. She's getting around 2k a month now from donators. She's going to keep playing this shit out as long as she can. It's worked out perfectly.

Yes. This was all part of her master plan. You've figured it all out. Congrats. =|

 

[Camisado]

If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?

 

[FlyinJ]

If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?

Yes, the best course of action when being a victim of a harassment campaign whose main goal is to get you to shut up about your views is to learn your lesson and shut up.

 

[Orayn]

If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?

As others have repeatedly said, this kind of thinking means the harassers "win" no matter what: The target either shuts up and goes away, or they potentially provoke further harassment.

If the harassment wasn't so severe and it started over something really petty, backing down might not be so bad, but neither is the case in this situation. We're talking about a female developer who received death threats, got doxxed, and had people go after her family simply because of gossip about her personal life. It's disgusting bullshit and Zoe is doing a brave thing by facing it head-on.

 

[Quote]

If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?

She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.

Crawling into the fetal position and taking it is the exact opposite of making a difference.

 

[Corto]

She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.

Crawling into the fetal position and taking it is the exact opposite of making a difference.

Also as a corollary to what you've already posted.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/troll-slayer

And to those that want to listen/read the whole lecture on "The Public Voice of Women"

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n06/mary-beard/the-public-voice-of-women

Ironically the well-meaning solution often recommended when women are on the receiving end of this stuff turns out to bring about the very result the abusers want: namely, their silence. ‘Don’t call the abusers out. Don’t give them any attention; that’s what they want. Just keep mum,’ you’re told, which amounts to leaving the bullies in unchallenged occupation of the playground.

 

[theJohann]

Thanks, I really appreciate those links.

Regardless, by addressing studio's attitudes, particularly management it would do more good than attacking consumers.

Sure, no problem at all. Most of the work was done by Amir0x in this post, to be honest, so I can't take all the credit.

I think the reason consumers are addressed alongside the developers is because solving these issues requires cooperation from all areas of the industry. It's difficult to point to one single aspect and say, "there, that's what's causing all of our problems" when the problems are systemic ones – meaning they necessitate a much broader approach – and their damaging effects are almost ubiquitously found throughout the industry, from supplier to consumer. The solution requires us to work in tandem with each other, and this means including the very much vital role of activists and critics. Video games, being inherently centred on interaction, thus require a dialogue between developers, consumers, and critics to tackle the challenges that the medium is now facing.

The developers may progress by leaps and bounds in the maturity of their content and their work ethos, but none of it would be very effective if their audience remains stuck in the past. Many of the larger, "triple A" games that we see being published are due to the idea that these are the games that the consumers want, and will therefore sell. If games that propagate sexism, racism, and other issues are not spoken up against, by both critics and consumers alike, they will continue to be made and the medium will continue to stagnate. The onus is not solely on the development studios, it is on all of us.

 

[Camisado]

Yes, the best course of action when being a victim of a harassment campaign whose main goal is to get you to shut up about your views is to learn your lesson and shut up.

As others have repeatedly said, this kind of thinking means the harassers "win" no matter what: The target either shuts up and goes away, or they potentially provoke further harassment.

If the harassment wasn't so severe and it started over something really petty, backing down might not be so bad, but neither is the case in this situation. We're talking about a female developer who received death threats, got doxxed, and had people go after her family simply because of gossip about her personal life. It's disgusting bullshit and Zoe is doing a brave thing by facing it head-on.

She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.

Crawling into the fetal position and taking it is the exact opposite of making a difference.

I hope it didn't come across as if I was saying she shouldn't have done it, it's just braver than I would of been is all...

 

[Arkage]

It's my opinion, and as unreasoned as it may be, it still stands. It wasn't shared because I had hoped it'd be a shining example of a logical argument. It was an impassioned bitch-fest.

But I'm not wrong.

And this is why threads like this become identity-politic battles grounded in nothing other than self-righteous indignation towards the opposing party. The point at which an "impassioned bitch-fest" is just as legitimate a talking point as a "logical argument," I take my leave.

it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[spirity]

It's interesting to see the hysterical self-righteousness and fevered piety of these "social media campaigns" achieve the critical mass required to implode in a storm of screaming and finger-pointing.

Who can bear the biggest cross? Who gets to yell the loudest? What salvation issue is at stake in today's drama? Stay tuned.

Somebody is going to say something outrageous on social media very soon and people will get pissed off at it.

It would be a bit of a strange turn of events I know, but its gonna happen. I swear I can feel it in my bones.

 

[SparkPeople]

Sure, no problem at all. Most of the work was done by Amir0x in this post, to be honest, so I can't take all the credit.

I think the reason consumers are addressed alongside the developers is because solving these issues requires cooperation from all areas of the industry. It's difficult to point to one single aspect and say, "there, that's what's causing all of our problems" when the problems are systemic ones – meaning they necessitate a much broader approach – and their damaging effects are almost ubiquitously found throughout the industry, from supplier to consumer. The solution requires us to work in tandem with each other, and this means including the very much vital role of activists and critics. Video games, being inherently centred on interaction, thus require a dialogue between developers, consumers, and critics to tackle the challenges that the medium is now facing.

The developers may progress by leaps and bounds in the maturity of their content and their work ethos, but none of it would be very effective if their audience remains stuck in the past. Many of the larger, "triple A" games that we see being published are due to the idea that these are the games that the consumers want, and will therefore sell. If games that propagate sexism, racism, and other issues are not spoken up against, by both critics and consumers alike, they will continue to be made and the medium will continue to stagnate. The onus is not solely on the development studios, it is on all of us.

Hmm. I see where you're coming from. I find the issue with that argument is that the majority of top selling AAA games aren't bought by self-professed gamers, but by the general public. The general public doesn't consume gaming information the same way gamers do.

Moreover, I find gamers, and gaming media, very tolerant of alternative games. Gone home has been touted as great LGBT game, and experimental games like No Man's Sky are expected with a lot of hype. That said, the average person who buys COD and Madden every year, the same person who drives AAA publishers to send out more of these games, isn't going to know or care about them.

We also have to take into account how games are viewed in society.They are inherently games, therefore not serious. I would bet that the majority of people view games as time wasters, and not a legitimate form of media. With that inherent perception of games as...games, people are going to brush off critics and criticism.

That's why I feel going after publishers and developers is more important. Modern, male-centric gaming culture came as a direct result of marketing efforts. It's heavily influenced by the industry, and the consumer culture rarely influences back unless there is a universal and instant distaste for something (see Microsoft's DRM scheme).

Gaining that kind of mobility from the gaming community is near impossible at this point, because of the current discourse is not friendly, and because it's dominated by two individuals that stand to gain from it. (I'm taking about donations, game jams, web videos, etc.)

 

[Noaloha]

Ha, from the comments section / forum of the Cracked article. After dozens of comments unsurprisingly ignoring the closing Editor's Note, someone on the site's staff offers a gentle reminder,

Of course, #GGers start retweeting it as evidence of censorship.

 

[RpgN]

I've stayed away from threads about Zoe Quinn up to this point. This whole ordeal is shitty and it's weird in certain ways. I think my opinion differs from both sides. You have the idiots who try to use anything against her to make it look like a gaming related problem and justify all the harassments directed at her. Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her. Speaking of this boyfriend, I had sympathies for him at first but it seems he was also in chat logs with that hateful group behind the whole campaign. It doesn't sound like he was just venting. So he seems just as shitty.

 

[Eidan]

IMO, some of the worst responses have been "Look, BOTH sides look equally bad because..."

Seriously. This "the truth is in the middle" bullshit is reaching levels of fetishcism.

 

[Orayn]

Seriously. This "the truth is in the middle" bullshit is reaching levels of fetishcism.

Some internet discussions seem to turn the golden mean fallacy into a discussion-consuming black hole of equivocation and smugness.

 

[aeolist]

Moreover, I find gamers, and gaming media, very tolerant of alternative games. Gone home has been touted as great LGBT game

i have to call bullshit on this one. the media generally appreciated gone home but large swaths of the gaming audience did not. there were steam tag wars labeling it as "not a game" and various homophobic slurs, comment threads in any review were desolate wastelands, and i believe the fullbright people got some real hate on twitter. it was decried for some of the same reasons as depression quest, with lots of people lamenting the presence of politics in their games and the "shoehorned" LGBT protagonist because any depiction of minority characters has to be justified to them somehow.

gone home is a perfect counter-example to your entire argument here.

 

[Maebe]

I didn't pay attention to this stuff at all but after reading that, this has to be the most pointless and vile harassment campaign the internet ever did.

 

[SparkPeople]

i have to call bullshit on this one. the media generally appreciated gone home but large swaths of the gaming audience did not. there were steam tag wars labeling it as "not a game" and various homophobic slurs, comment threads in any review were desolate wastelands, and i believe the fullbright people got some real hate on twitter. it was decried for some of the same reasons as depression quest, with lots of people lamenting the presence of politics in their games and the "shoehorned" LGBT protagonist because any depiction of minority characters has to be justified to them somehow.

gone home is a perfect counter-example to your entire argument here.

I don't use twitter so I barely know what goes on there, but it seems to me that reception of gone home was good. An indie game that sells 250,000 copies has an audience, which indicates to me that some parts of the gaming population like it.

And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment. Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.

Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?

PS: From watching lets plays, I can see where 'not a game' label comes from. I'd argue that the Stanley Parable is also not a game, something echoed in multiple reviews, but it's still fun nonetheless.

 

[aeolist]

I don't use twitter so I barely know what goes on there, but it seems to me that reception of gone home was good. An indie game that sells 250,000 copies has an audience, which indicates to me that some parts of the gaming population like it.

250,000 is a tiny fraction of the total gaming populace. there's no telling how many people hated or derided it but it was a lot. also that link is mainly talking about press reception, which i agreed was largely positive.

And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment.

no it's not, almost all games have politics. if you want to avoid politics in your games entirely stick to extremely abstract arcade games.

Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.

i don't get your point here. call of duty is heavily political too, and people don't complain about that.

Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?

if it's a thoughtful criticism backed up by good points, sure. most of the complaints i saw were simply hating on the fact that the main character is LGBT, that's bigoted.

PS: From watching lets plays, I can see where 'not a game' label comes from. I'd argue that the Stanley Parable is also not a game, something echoed in multiple reviews, but it's still fun nonetheless.

it's a piece of interactive entertainment software that requires some level of decision making and mechanical skills in order to progress. it's a game.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment. Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.

Thing is, almost every game contains "politics". I'd even argue Call of Duty's political message is as strong and in-your-face as Spec Ops'. What might rub people the wrong way is that the message of these games is different from what you usually see in AAAs, as it goes against the status quo. But to say that CoD, Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, GTA, Far Cry, etc. contain no "politics" is plain wrong.

 

[Kinsei]

Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?

Sure, as long as your criticism isn't just the fact that it has a LGBT/Minority character.

 

[Noaloha]

Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her.

She's not a saint. She's a fallible human, just like you and me. The only part of this shitshow which revolves around Quinn's infidelity is the part played by the ex in which he attempted (and, by and large, for many thousands of people for whom the accusations stuck, succeeded) in slurring her name. The general people defending/supporting her (or, more commonly, simply challenging the harrassers, irrespective of Quinn) do not give a shit about her personal affairs, because they believe it's none of their business. In my opinion, as far as this particular 'side' is concerned, it's not Quinn that is being judged (in your opinion, positively) in this; the perpetrators of the nastiness are being judged. Y'know, for behaviour up to and including criminal harassment.

 

[televator]

What a stupid "controversy." The conspiracies are quite a stretch. I have no clue how her supposed sleeping around gives her so much power as to be a relevant force in the corruption of the gaming media to the extent that some of these conspiracies claim. It all comes off as slut shaming under the guise of a noble campaign against corrupt journalism. Disgusting, really, if that's all it is. From what I've read so far the only controversy here is how much a bunch of petty internet misogynists are willing to pervert and highjack a real issue to attack a woman they don't like.

The adam baldwin shit is weird as hell

Now every time I watch Firefly... God damn it.

 

[Noaloha]

On the politics issue (I'm sure I posted this link earlier*), Games Design Is Always Political.

*edit, yeah I did, to the chap with the MGS avatar upset about those gays thrusting themselves ever harder into his escape and leisure time.

 

[aeolist]

On the politics issue (I'm sure I posted this link earlier*), Games Design Is Always Political.

*edit, yeah I did, to the chap with the MGS avatar upset about those gays thrusting themselves ever harder into his escape and leisure time.

i didn't play mgs rising but wasn't the final boss a satire of american conservatives? not political lol

 

[FoneBone]

I don't use twitter so I barely know what goes on there, but it seems to me that reception of gone home was good. An indie game that sells 250,000 copies has an audience, which indicates to me that some parts of the gaming population like it.

And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment. Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.

Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?

PS: From watching lets plays, I can see where 'not a game' label comes from. I'd argue that the Stanley Parable is also not a game, something echoed in multiple reviews, but it's still fun nonetheless.

Check user reviews on Steam or Metacritic, and you'll see a lot of negative reviews asserting that critics only liked it because of an "agenda". The Stanley Parable and Dear Esther seem to have gotten their fair share of "not a game" criticism, but not as intensely so.

 

[twobear]

On the politics issue (I'm sure I posted this link earlier*), Games Design Is Always Political.

*edit, yeah I did, to the chap with the MGS avatar upset about those gays thrusting themselves ever harder into his escape and leisure time.

'i don't want games to be political'

*uses avatar of a game that includes story elements including the military-industrial complex, pmcs, censorship and control of information by governments...*

 

[RpgN]

She's not a saint. She's a fallible human, just like you and me. The only part of this shitshow which revolves around Quinn's infidelity is the part played by the ex in which he attempted (and, by and large, for many thousands of people for whom the accusations stuck, succeeded) in slurring her name. The general people defending/supporting her (or, more commonly, simply challenging the harrassers, irrespective of Quinn) do not give a shit about her personal affairs, because they believe it's none of their business. In my opinion, as far as this particular 'side' is concerned, it's not Quinn that is being judged (in your opinion, positively) in this; the perpetrators of the nastiness are being judged. Y'know, for behaviour up to and including criminal harassment.

I think this way of thinking is a different perspective on the situation. You have people who don't give a shit about her personal affairs and are able to only focus on the unfair treatment she has received in an objective way. You also have people who can't look past that once they know what kind of a person she is in her personal life regardless of the situation at hand. It's unfair to label everyone as misoginistic if not everyone thinks the same way.

Basically what I'm saying, the defenders have every right to defend Zoe. Nobody deserves any of this. But they should understand opinions of others who have no stake at this and just dislike Zoe for a different reason.

 

[Raggie]

I've stayed away from threads about Zoe Quinn up to this point. This whole ordeal is shitty and it's weird in certain ways. I think my opinion differs from both sides. You have the idiots who try to use anything against her to make it look like a gaming related problem and justify all the harassments directed at her. Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her. Speaking of this boyfriend, I had sympathies for him at first but it seems he was also in chat logs with that hateful group behind the whole campaign. It doesn't sound like he was just venting. So he seems just as shitty.

It's not a question of how "shitty" these people are. We don't know Zoe Quinn nor her boyfriend. We don't know which one is telling how much truth or what really happened between them. None of that is any of our business to get involved in to begin with. The only concern that relates to the rest of the gaming community is whether or not any media reporting towards us has been colored because of this relationship, and even then it's hardly a major issue taking into account that we are talking about a small, free indie game. None of this should lead into a mob judging her and begin a public and private stoning.

Yeah, cheating sucks. It's also something that around every second person in a relationship does at some point. The mob squad is going to have to get real busy if they intend to mete out their "social justice" on all of them.

 

[Orayn]

I think this way of thinking is a different perspective on the situation. You have people who don't give a shit about her personal affairs and are able to only focus on the unfair treatment she has received in an objective way. You also have people who can't look past that once they know what kind of a person she is in her personal life regardless of the situation at hand. It's unfair to label everyone as misoginistic if not everyone thinks the same way.

Basically what I'm saying, the defenders have every right to defend Zoe. Nobody deserves any of this. But they should understand opinions of others who have no stake at this and just dislike Zoe for a different reason.

If their dislike causes them to throw their lot in with the side that's been harassing her, I'm not going to understand or empathize with them.

Not that I think there's no conceivable reason not to like her as a person, but how many have used it as an excuse to continue an ongoing campaign of garbage?

 

[Noaloha]

Basically what I'm saying, the defenders have every right to defend Zoe. Nobody deserves any of this. But they should understand opinions of others who have no stake at this and just dislike Zoe for a different reason.

In the way you're describing then, should anyone be expressing their dislike of Quinn's private life decisions anywhere near a #GamerGate hashtag?

 

[Anton Sugar]

It's not a question of how "shitty" these people are. We don't know Zoe Quinn nor her boyfriend. We don't know which one is telling how much truth or what really happened between them. None of that is any of our business to get involved in to begin with. The only concern that relates to the rest of the gaming community is whether or not any media reporting towards us has been colored because of this relationship, and even then it's hardly a major issue taking into account that we are talking about a small, free indie game. None of this should lead into a mob judging her and begin a public and private stoning.

Yeah, cheating sucks. It's also something that around every second person in a relationship does at some point. The mob squad is going to have to get real busy if they intend to mete out their "social justice" on all of them.

Great post.

 

[RpgN]

It's not a question of how "shitty" these people are. We don't know Zoe Quinn nor her boyfriend. We don't know which one is telling how much truth or what really happened between them. None of that is any of our business to get involved in to begin with. The only concern that relates to the rest of the gaming community is whether or not any media reporting towards us has been colored because of this relationship, and even then it's hardly a major issue taking into account that we are talking about a small, free indie game. None of this should lead into a mob judging her and begin a public and private stoning.

Yeah, cheating sucks. It's also something that around every second person in a relationship does at some point. The mob squad is going to have to get real busy if they intend to mete out their "social justice" on all of them.

Uhm...it is our business once the news is out. By that I mean we are free to have opinions of people once we have information about them spread across the internet in this case.

Secondly, I find it hard to not believe the boyfriend with all the evidence he has gathered. It's all very believable and she admitted some of his claims.

It's not about the indie game and I'm not saying all that has happened to her is okay because. You're taking an extreme position towards me when you don't need to. Regardless of what you have to say, people do get judged about the smallest things even. I'm talking about having an opinion of a person, not attack that person or make his/her life difficult.

 

[Riposte]

i didn't play mgs rising but wasn't the final boss a satire of american conservatives? not political lol

Kind of, sort of. I think he's a little too larger than life to be fit into "American Conservative" and doesn't exist for the purpose of "satire".

 

[Beardz]

I was thinking of Phil Fish.

 

[RpgN]

If their dislike causes them to throw their lot in with the side that's been harassing her, I'm not going to understand or empathize with them.

Not that I think there's no conceivable reason not to like her as a person, but how many have used it as an excuse to continue an ongoing campaign of garbage?

I pretty much agree with what you have to say. Those might as well be just as extreme if they put their energy to show hate towards her constantly and attribute to this harassment.

In the way you're describing then, should anyone be expressing their dislike of Quinn's private life decisions anywhere near a #GamerGate hashtag?

I haven't read this hashtag and have no idea what's said in there. So I have no idea what to answer you.

 

[Bagina]

She's under fire for the shit she pulled because she's in the limelight and people are going to talk about it regardless of who and what the negative press is. Look at the girl, Kendall Jones, who hunted game in Africa and posted the pics of it on facebook. if you looked at the comments, they were FAR worse than what Zoe has gotten. "Fuck you, hope you get eaten and your family too". Death threats are shitty and uncalled for, but that happens to anyone who does something perceived negative under the spotlight. The issue is that Zoe keeps pulling herself BACK into the spotlight again with articles like these. Just stop bringing it up and it will die. and to those defending her, how is this any different to what happened to Josh Mattingly? he sent a sexual text to a female game dev and lost his entire career over it. Every article that was published was condemning him, none telling people to stop with the harassment on him. meanwhile she does something worse in comparison, yet has people saying " this is personal, and doesn't need to talked about". and gets DMCA take downs on everything to avoid her negative press. The hypocrisy is real.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I've stayed away from threads about Zoe Quinn up to this point. This whole ordeal is shitty and it's weird in certain ways. I think my opinion differs from both sides. You have the idiots who try to use anything against her to make it look like a gaming related problem and justify all the harassments directed at her. Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her. Speaking of this boyfriend, I had sympathies for him at first but it seems he was also in chat logs with that hateful group behind the whole campaign. It doesn't sound like he was just venting. So he seems just as shitty.

who fucking cares whether she's a shitty person or not

Like, seriously, how is that relevant to the game industry or whether or not her harrasment is justified at all

 

[RpgN]

She's under fire for the shit she pulled because she's in the limelight and people are going to talk about it regardless of who and what the negative press is. Look at the girl, Kendall Jones, who hunted game in Africa and posted the pics of it on facebook. if you looked at the comments, they were FAR worse than what Zoe has gotten. "Fuck you, hope you get eaten and your family too". Death threats are shitty and uncalled for, but that happens to anyone who does something perceived negative under the spotlight. The issue is that Zoe keeps pulling herself BACK into the spotlight again with articles like these. Just stop bringing it up and it will die. and to those defending her, how is this any different to what happened to Josh Mattingly? he sent a sexual text to a female game dev and lost his entire career over it. Every article that was published was condemning him, none telling people to stop with the harassment on him. meanwhile she does something worse in comparison, yet has people saying " this is personal, and doesn't need to talked about". and gets DMCA take downs on everything to avoid her negative press. The hypocrisy is real.

The timing of this article is most likely none of her fault. She was asked to give comment.

In the case of Josh Mattingly it's because it is related with the gaming industry. This guy abused his power as an owner of an indie company and the women was harassed while doing her job. Zoe's affair with her ex is indeed more personal. Aside from the fact that they are both indie devs, their relationship is hardly related to gaming.

Edit:

who fucking cares whether she's a shitty person or not

Like, seriously, how is that relevant to the game industry or whether or not her harrasment is justified at all

Sigh...did you like read the conversations I've had with other members? In fact, did you even read the reply you quoted fully?

 

[Deleted member 126221]

She's under fire for the shit she pulled because she's in the limelight and people are going to talk about it regardless of who and what the negative press is. Look at the girl, Kendall Jones, who hunted game in Africa and posted the pics of it on facebook. if you looked at the comments, they were FAR worse than what Zoe has gotten. "Fuck you, hope you get eaten and your family too". Death threats are shitty and uncalled for, but that happens to anyone who does something perceived negative under the spotlight. The issue is that Zoe keeps pulling herself BACK into the spotlight again with articles like these. Just stop bringing it up and it will die. and to those defending her, how is this any different to what happened to Josh Mattingly? he sent a sexual text to a female game dev and lost his entire career over it. Every article that was published was condemning him, none telling people to stop with the harassment on him. meanwhile she does something worse in comparison, yet has people saying " this is personal, and doesn't need to talked about". and gets DMCA take downs on everything to avoid her negative press. The hypocrisy is real.

I... I don't even know where to start. Victim blaming? Trivialization of harassment "because it happens to other people as well"? Comparing two completely different situations while trivializing sexual harassment by saying what Zoe Quinn did is somehow "worse"?

Good luck with that...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Both sides are to blame here

By both sides I mean the misogynist fucks sending her death threats and the clueless idiots going "Well she doesn't deserve death threats but she's still a bad person and that justifies everything that's happened to her somehow also SJWs"

 

[SparkPeople]

250,000 is a tiny fraction of the total gaming populace. there's no telling how many people hated or derided it but it was a lot. also that link is mainly talking about press reception, which i agreed was largely positive.

So are people not allowed to dislike a game because they disagree with their message? Or is it when they voice their opinions on things.

no it's not, almost all games have politics. if you want to avoid politics in your games entirely stick to extremely abstract arcade games.

Almost all games have politics in the most abstract sense. Politics is the interaction between people on a base level. Most of the criticism I saw came from having politics be the main agenda of the game.

i don't get your point here. call of duty is heavily political too, and people don't complain about that.

Because call of duty isn't marketed on its political themes. It's marketed on its multiplayer appeal.

A better example are Tom Clancy games.

it's a piece of interactive entertainment software that requires some level of decision making and mechanical skills in order to progress. it's a game.

If that's your criteria, then Bluray menus are games? are ebooks games? Are ereaders standalone game machines?

Thing is, almost every game contains "politics". I'd even argue Call of Duty's political message is as strong and in-your-face as Spec Ops'. What might rub people the wrong way is that the message of these games is different from what you usually see in AAAs, as it goes against the status quo. But to say that CoD, Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, GTA, Far Cry, etc. contain no "politics" is plain wrong.

Really? Because I see CoD and Battefield as fantasy works saying "here's what would happen if it hit the fan" where as GTA is more of a satirical look at popular locals.

I might be blind, but I dont' see the politics in Assassin's Creed and Far Cry. Unless you're referring to Far Cry 2's setting in Africa.

 

[CrashSimonFaye]

Who?

 

[SparkPeople]

Check user reviews on Steam or Metacritic, and you'll see a lot of negative reviews asserting that critics only liked it because of an "agenda". The Stanley Parable and Dear Esther seem to have gotten their fair share of "not a game" criticism, but not as intensely so.

I'm reading through negative steam reviews (more like glancing, there are alot), and the main criticism coming in from users is "It's a boring short story that's not worth $20." And alot of backlash coming from the high praise this game got from the media.

Like I said earlier, not liking a game that features gay and minority characters doesn't mean you hate the characters. I hate Crysis. Can't stand it. The main character, prophet, is black. He's a terrible character. Does that mean I hate blacks? No.

The legend of Korra had a terrible first and second season. Is it because I hate strong, ethnic women? No, it's because the seasons had poor pacing.

I think we should be able to criticise a game regardless of who stars in it, or what it revolves around.

I enjoyed the Stanely Parable, and was ok with Dear Esther. I'll pick up gone home and see what the fuss is about.