She plays Nintendoland, Animal Crossing and Mario Kart 8.
I can live with it if that's all I can get her to play lol
Just be thankful she plays video games at all.
Mine hates them.
She plays Nintendoland, Animal Crossing and Mario Kart 8.
I can live with it if that's all I can get her to play lol
Whether it's true or not, it's none of our business.
Nope.I don't like her very much, but I do feel bad for her and what happened. I do really dislike that she called out other game's journalists and said they were anti-feminist and made targets out of them too though. She basically took what was happening to her and set it upon others who weren't involved. Obviously you're not going to make great decisions with that much stress, but let's just say that no one really came out smelling like roses, justified or not.
Nope.
It's about how she slept with guys to advance her career and corruption in the industry. She's playing the victim and she has a fund setup. She's getting around 2k a month now from donators. She's going to keep playing this shit out as long as she can. It's worked out perfectly.
If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?
If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?
She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.If I had just endured a horrid time at the hands of the internet, I probably wouldn't start writing articles about it straight afterwards, seems like the kind of thing to draw attention to yourself again surely?
She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.
Crawling into the fetal position and taking it is the exact opposite of making a difference.
Ironically the well-meaning solution often recommended when women are on the receiving end of this stuff turns out to bring about the very result the abusers want: namely, their silence. ‘Don’t call the abusers out. Don’t give them any attention; that’s what they want. Just keep mum,’ you’re told, which amounts to leaving the bullies in unchallenged occupation of the playground.
Thanks, I really appreciate those links.
Regardless, by addressing studio's attitudes, particularly management it would do more good than attacking consumers.
Yes, the best course of action when being a victim of a harassment campaign whose main goal is to get you to shut up about your views is to learn your lesson and shut up.
As others have repeatedly said, this kind of thinking means the harassers "win" no matter what: The target either shuts up and goes away, or they potentially provoke further harassment.
If the harassment wasn't so severe and it started over something really petty, backing down might not be so bad, but neither is the case in this situation. We're talking about a female developer who received death threats, got doxxed, and had people go after her family simply because of gossip about her personal life. It's disgusting bullshit and Zoe is doing a brave thing by facing it head-on.
She feels like she had a message to deliver and wants to make a difference. Zoe isn't the first and definitely won't be the last, let her share her experiences for the next human to be treated like shit. It's a couragous endevour and kudos to her.
Crawling into the fetal position and taking it is the exact opposite of making a difference.
It's my opinion, and as unreasoned as it may be, it still stands. It wasn't shared because I had hoped it'd be a shining example of a logical argument. It was an impassioned bitch-fest.
But I'm not wrong.
Macbeth said:it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
It's interesting to see the hysterical self-righteousness and fevered piety of these "social media campaigns" achieve the critical mass required to implode in a storm of screaming and finger-pointing.
Who can bear the biggest cross? Who gets to yell the loudest? What salvation issue is at stake in today's drama? Stay tuned.
Sure, no problem at all. Most of the work was done by Amir0x in this post, to be honest, so I can't take all the credit.
I think the reason consumers are addressed alongside the developers is because solving these issues requires cooperation from all areas of the industry. It's difficult to point to one single aspect and say, "there, that's what's causing all of our problems" when the problems are systemic ones meaning they necessitate a much broader approach and their damaging effects are almost ubiquitously found throughout the industry, from supplier to consumer. The solution requires us to work in tandem with each other, and this means including the very much vital role of activists and critics. Video games, being inherently centred on interaction, thus require a dialogue between developers, consumers, and critics to tackle the challenges that the medium is now facing.
The developers may progress by leaps and bounds in the maturity of their content and their work ethos, but none of it would be very effective if their audience remains stuck in the past. Many of the larger, "triple A" games that we see being published are due to the idea that these are the games that the consumers want, and will therefore sell. If games that propagate sexism, racism, and other issues are not spoken up against, by both critics and consumers alike, they will continue to be made and the medium will continue to stagnate. The onus is not solely on the development studios, it is on all of us.
Seriously. This "the truth is in the middle" bullshit is reaching levels of fetishcism.IMO, some of the worst responses have been "Look, BOTH sides look equally bad because..."
Seriously. This "the truth is in the middle" bullshit is reaching levels of fetishcism.
Moreover, I find gamers, and gaming media, very tolerant of alternative games. Gone home has been touted as great LGBT game
i have to call bullshit on this one. the media generally appreciated gone home but large swaths of the gaming audience did not. there were steam tag wars labeling it as "not a game" and various homophobic slurs, comment threads in any review were desolate wastelands, and i believe the fullbright people got some real hate on twitter. it was decried for some of the same reasons as depression quest, with lots of people lamenting the presence of politics in their games and the "shoehorned" LGBT protagonist because any depiction of minority characters has to be justified to them somehow.
gone home is a perfect counter-example to your entire argument here.
250,000 is a tiny fraction of the total gaming populace. there's no telling how many people hated or derided it but it was a lot. also that link is mainly talking about press reception, which i agreed was largely positive.I don't use twitter so I barely know what goes on there, but it seems to me that reception of gone home was good. An indie game that sells 250,000 copies has an audience, which indicates to me that some parts of the gaming population like it.
no it's not, almost all games have politics. if you want to avoid politics in your games entirely stick to extremely abstract arcade games.And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment.
i don't get your point here. call of duty is heavily political too, and people don't complain about that.Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.
if it's a thoughtful criticism backed up by good points, sure. most of the complaints i saw were simply hating on the fact that the main character is LGBT, that's bigoted.Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?
it's a piece of interactive entertainment software that requires some level of decision making and mechanical skills in order to progress. it's a game.PS: From watching lets plays, I can see where 'not a game' label comes from. I'd argue that the Stanley Parable is also not a game, something echoed in multiple reviews, but it's still fun nonetheless.
And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment. Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.
Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?
Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her.
The adam baldwin shit is weird as hell
On the politics issue (I'm sure I posted this link earlier*), Games Design Is Always Political.
*edit, yeah I did, to the chap with the MGS avatar upset about those gays thrusting themselves ever harder into his escape and leisure time.
Check user reviews on Steam or Metacritic, and you'll see a lot of negative reviews asserting that critics only liked it because of an "agenda". The Stanley Parable and Dear Esther seem to have gotten their fair share of "not a game" criticism, but not as intensely so.I don't use twitter so I barely know what goes on there, but it seems to me that reception of gone home was good. An indie game that sells 250,000 copies has an audience, which indicates to me that some parts of the gaming population like it.
And reading the polygon review and comments, the common sentiment among detractors is "it shoehorned politics, and I wasn't expecting/don't like politics in my games." which I think is a fair sentiment. Spec Ops: The Line was specifically marketed as a generic shooter because people in general equate games with fun, and politics with not fun.
Can a person criticism a game's plot if it involves LGBT/Minority characters without being labelled a bigot?
PS: From watching lets plays, I can see where 'not a game' label comes from. I'd argue that the Stanley Parable is also not a game, something echoed in multiple reviews, but it's still fun nonetheless.
On the politics issue (I'm sure I posted this link earlier*), Games Design Is Always Political.
*edit, yeah I did, to the chap with the MGS avatar upset about those gays thrusting themselves ever harder into his escape and leisure time.
She's not a saint. She's a fallible human, just like you and me. The only part of this shitshow which revolves around Quinn's infidelity is the part played by the ex in which he attempted (and, by and large, for many thousands of people for whom the accusations stuck, succeeded) in slurring her name. The general people defending/supporting her (or, more commonly, simply challenging the harrassers, irrespective of Quinn) do not give a shit about her personal affairs, because they believe it's none of their business. In my opinion, as far as this particular 'side' is concerned, it's not Quinn that is being judged (in your opinion, positively) in this; the perpetrators of the nastiness are being judged. Y'know, for behaviour up to and including criminal harassment.
I've stayed away from threads about Zoe Quinn up to this point. This whole ordeal is shitty and it's weird in certain ways. I think my opinion differs from both sides. You have the idiots who try to use anything against her to make it look like a gaming related problem and justify all the harassments directed at her. Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her. Speaking of this boyfriend, I had sympathies for him at first but it seems he was also in chat logs with that hateful group behind the whole campaign. It doesn't sound like he was just venting. So he seems just as shitty.
I think this way of thinking is a different perspective on the situation. You have people who don't give a shit about her personal affairs and are able to only focus on the unfair treatment she has received in an objective way. You also have people who can't look past that once they know what kind of a person she is in her personal life regardless of the situation at hand. It's unfair to label everyone as misoginistic if not everyone thinks the same way.
Basically what I'm saying, the defenders have every right to defend Zoe. Nobody deserves any of this. But they should understand opinions of others who have no stake at this and just dislike Zoe for a different reason.
Basically what I'm saying, the defenders have every right to defend Zoe. Nobody deserves any of this. But they should understand opinions of others who have no stake at this and just dislike Zoe for a different reason.
It's not a question of how "shitty" these people are. We don't know Zoe Quinn nor her boyfriend. We don't know which one is telling how much truth or what really happened between them. None of that is any of our business to get involved in to begin with. The only concern that relates to the rest of the gaming community is whether or not any media reporting towards us has been colored because of this relationship, and even then it's hardly a major issue taking into account that we are talking about a small, free indie game. None of this should lead into a mob judging her and begin a public and private stoning.
Yeah, cheating sucks. It's also something that around every second person in a relationship does at some point. The mob squad is going to have to get real busy if they intend to mete out their "social justice" on all of them.
It's not a question of how "shitty" these people are. We don't know Zoe Quinn nor her boyfriend. We don't know which one is telling how much truth or what really happened between them. None of that is any of our business to get involved in to begin with. The only concern that relates to the rest of the gaming community is whether or not any media reporting towards us has been colored because of this relationship, and even then it's hardly a major issue taking into account that we are talking about a small, free indie game. None of this should lead into a mob judging her and begin a public and private stoning.
Yeah, cheating sucks. It's also something that around every second person in a relationship does at some point. The mob squad is going to have to get real busy if they intend to mete out their "social justice" on all of them.
i didn't play mgs rising but wasn't the final boss a satire of american conservatives? not political lol
If their dislike causes them to throw their lot in with the side that's been harassing her, I'm not going to understand or empathize with them.
Not that I think there's no conceivable reason not to like her as a person, but how many have used it as an excuse to continue an ongoing campaign of garbage?
In the way you're describing then, should anyone be expressing their dislike of Quinn's private life decisions anywhere near a #GamerGate hashtag?
I've stayed away from threads about Zoe Quinn up to this point. This whole ordeal is shitty and it's weird in certain ways. I think my opinion differs from both sides. You have the idiots who try to use anything against her to make it look like a gaming related problem and justify all the harassments directed at her. Then you have the defenders who try to minimize what kind of a shitty person Zoe herself is. Yes, it has nothing to do with gaming but it's sad to see what I perceive as a blind defence to her and make her sound like a saint. As if only people that dislike her would do that because of her gender. Maybe some of you don't care about cheaters, but I sure as hell highly dislike a person who cheated on a loved one with 5 guys, keeps lying and treating that loved one like shit. After knowing all of this, it's hard for me to not look negatively at her and only defend her. Speaking of this boyfriend, I had sympathies for him at first but it seems he was also in chat logs with that hateful group behind the whole campaign. It doesn't sound like he was just venting. So he seems just as shitty.
She's under fire for the shit she pulled because she's in the limelight and people are going to talk about it regardless of who and what the negative press is. Look at the girl, Kendall Jones, who hunted game in Africa and posted the pics of it on facebook. if you looked at the comments, they were FAR worse than what Zoe has gotten. "Fuck you, hope you get eaten and your family too". Death threats are shitty and uncalled for, but that happens to anyone who does something perceived negative under the spotlight. The issue is that Zoe keeps pulling herself BACK into the spotlight again with articles like these. Just stop bringing it up and it will die. and to those defending her, how is this any different to what happened to Josh Mattingly? he sent a sexual text to a female game dev and lost his entire career over it. Every article that was published was condemning him, none telling people to stop with the harassment on him. meanwhile she does something worse in comparison, yet has people saying " this is personal, and doesn't need to talked about". and gets DMCA take downs on everything to avoid her negative press. The hypocrisy is real.
who fucking cares whether she's a shitty person or not
Like, seriously, how is that relevant to the game industry or whether or not her harrasment is justified at all
She's under fire for the shit she pulled because she's in the limelight and people are going to talk about it regardless of who and what the negative press is. Look at the girl, Kendall Jones, who hunted game in Africa and posted the pics of it on facebook. if you looked at the comments, they were FAR worse than what Zoe has gotten. "Fuck you, hope you get eaten and your family too". Death threats are shitty and uncalled for, but that happens to anyone who does something perceived negative under the spotlight. The issue is that Zoe keeps pulling herself BACK into the spotlight again with articles like these. Just stop bringing it up and it will die. and to those defending her, how is this any different to what happened to Josh Mattingly? he sent a sexual text to a female game dev and lost his entire career over it. Every article that was published was condemning him, none telling people to stop with the harassment on him. meanwhile she does something worse in comparison, yet has people saying " this is personal, and doesn't need to talked about". and gets DMCA take downs on everything to avoid her negative press. The hypocrisy is real.
250,000 is a tiny fraction of the total gaming populace. there's no telling how many people hated or derided it but it was a lot. also that link is mainly talking about press reception, which i agreed was largely positive.
no it's not, almost all games have politics. if you want to avoid politics in your games entirely stick to extremely abstract arcade games.
i don't get your point here. call of duty is heavily political too, and people don't complain about that.
it's a piece of interactive entertainment software that requires some level of decision making and mechanical skills in order to progress. it's a game.
Thing is, almost every game contains "politics". I'd even argue Call of Duty's political message is as strong and in-your-face as Spec Ops'. What might rub people the wrong way is that the message of these games is different from what you usually see in AAAs, as it goes against the status quo. But to say that CoD, Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, GTA, Far Cry, etc. contain no "politics" is plain wrong.
Check user reviews on Steam or Metacritic, and you'll see a lot of negative reviews asserting that critics only liked it because of an "agenda". The Stanley Parable and Dear Esther seem to have gotten their fair share of "not a game" criticism, but not as intensely so.