Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.

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MacNille said:
A "spy" who was in his own country.... What the fuck Russia?
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he probably was onto something connected to Russian interference in Estonia. Organized crime, corruption, increased activity among the "russian minority" or preparations for war. The last bit has been an increasing activity among russian intelligence the last decade all over the nordic countries.
 
People in the UK, Panorama is on BBC One now with an episode called 'Putin's Gamble'.

Includes John Sweeney taking on Putin face to face, which should be interesting.
 
I'm posting this here since we've already been discussing the detaining of the Estonian border guard by Russia.

A police spokesman for Estonia has said that the border guard was taken on Estonian soil and that there were explosions during the time of the abduction.

BBC said:
"We had protection for him," Mr Puusepp said, but there were "explosions" during the incident which enabled the assailants to abduct Mr Kohver.

"We have proof he was definitely on Estonian ground. In that area the Estonian border is not fenced, it's bushes, high grass and forest. There's no line on the ground but everyone knows where it goes, it's recognised by both sides," he said.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29115865
 
More pointed rhetoric being taken towards the Baltics:

Russia reopens criminal cases against Lithuanians who refused to serve in Soviet army
Russia has reopened 25-year-old cases that may lead to criminal charges against young people who refused to serve in the Soviet army in 1990-1991, shows a request for legal assistance received by the Lithuanian Prosecutor General's Office
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Also:

Russian military plane circles HMCS Toronto in Black Sea

The ship was circled by one surveillance plane and two fighter jets, according to the defence minister's office.
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empty vessel said:
Some of the best Western reporting from Ukraine, which is not to say that it is entirely objective, but it's the closest we've come: London Review of Books: Why Not Kill Them All?
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asked Mishin and Bik if they’d known, when they declared independence, that it would lead to war. ‘If you pick up a gun, they’ll come for you with guns,’ in the words of one anti-DNR resident of Donetsk. But Mishin and Bik, like every other DNR supporter to whom I put this question, said no. They were just trying to be heard.
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Really, it's like a war of aggression.

‘When they were here, there was order,’ one man told me. ‘After some of the shelling, there were copper and aluminium wires lying in the streets! No one dared steal them. They chased the Gypsies off from the train station where they sold drugs. There was order!’ As soon as the rebels left, the Gypsies returned, paying the police to look the other way, just as before. In general, things had gone back to the way they were.
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Maybe I'm missing the context in this unbearable slog of writing, but this kind of seems like endorsing a slur/bigotry.
 
they added like 5 ukraine videos to Vice in the past day or something. Ukraine is being played so hard here, its ridiculous how much traction Russia is getting in being able to throw so much distraction around and still not being "confirmed" to being in Ukraine.
 
Apart from the ATC transcript nothing is in there we did not know already. The plane was hit by high energy objects and crashed.

edit: in no time this will be on ******* as evidence the Ukranians shot it down.
 
Here is an interesting take :

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-pushing-world-to-something-worse-than-cold-war-piontkovsky-say/

“a politician who has taken upon himself the mission of restoring the Russian World by redrawing state borders and having an enormous nuclear arsenal and a relatively weak conventional army simply is condemned to proclaim” that he has “a free hand on the entire post-Soviet space” and threaten the West with “mutual suicide” if it interferes in any way.

This “nuclear bluff is working today in the war with Ukraine,” Piontkovsky says. The very first words from Washington and Brussels about that conflict were that “military intervention by the US and NATO was absolutely excluded since Ukraine is not a member of NATO.”

But what might happen “if tomorrow the residents of [the Estonian city of] Narva have a referendum about joining Russia? Will tens of millions of people in the US and Europe take the risk of war with a nuclear super-power and die for Narva? Putin,” at the very least, “is convinced that no, they are not ready.” And Piontkovsky says he has to agree with him on that.

But the consequence of that Putin conviction is that “international relations are entering a stage of instability and volatility greater than at any time in the last 60 some years.” Indeed, the Russian commentator suggests, the last time they were this great were during the last months of the life and rule of Stalin.

At that time, Stalin “was concerned and not without reason about the problem of the preservation of his power and life. And he came up with a three-part reset” to change that: “ forced march preparation for a third world war, the liquidation of the party hierarchs, and a radical solution of the Jewish question.”

In March 1953, “the Russian God interfered” and saved Russia and the world from that outcome. It remains an open question whether that will happen again, Piontkovsky implies.
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I have this impending sense of doom that has not been there ever in my life, because when I saw Putin burst into tears in his visit to Mongolia last week, during the Russian national anthem, I started to wonder. What will happen if both sides are in a position where any sort of retreat means losing face within the international community? We all know that Putin will not accept such an outcome and war hawks in USA are hardly any better.

Russia is conducting large military exercises and while I trust Putin to still act rationally there is a growing danger that this nationalistic sentiment is spiraling out of control.
 
ICKE said:
Here is an interesting take :

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-pushing-world-to-something-worse-than-cold-war-piontkovsky-say/



I have this impending sense of doom that has not been there ever in my life, because when I saw Putin burst into tears in his visit to Mongolia last week, during the Russian national anthem, I started to wonder. What will happen if both sides are in a position where any sort of retreat means losing face within the international community? We all know that Putin will not accept such an outcome and war hawks in USA are hardly any better.

Russia is conducting large military exercises and while I trust Putin to still act rationally there is a growing danger that this nationalistic sentiment is spiraling out of control.
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Don't worry, Obama is too soft of a president to comfront Putin. He has shown many times in his second term. I don't know what will happen 2 years later. Maybe Putin want to establish the "Novorossia" before Obama leave office.

The West do need to send hand-held defensive weapons to the Western Ukraine though, I don't know what's the hold up.

edit: wasn't Putin the one who insisted restore the Soviet anthem as the Russian anthem, I would shed a tear too if I were him.
 
whatever77 said:
Don't worry, Obama is too soft of a president to comfront Putin. He has shown many times in his second term. I don't know what will happen 2 years later. Maybe Putin want to establish the "Novorossia" before Obama leave office.

The West do need to send hand-held defensive weapons to the Western Ukraine though, I don't know what's the hold up.
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I believe it is not healthy for any human being to be in a position where Putin is at the moment. He has basically painted himself into a corner, because Russians demand strong action across the board and this nationalistic fervor allows little room for political maneuvering - let alone retreat and compromise.

There are a lot of elements in the hierarchy who would be willing to extreme force as a first response to any direct action from NATO countries. Putin is obviously more rational than people like Shamanov who lost his mind in Chechnya but it worries me.
 
A couple interesting things posted on BBC today.

President Poroshenko has come out to say that he is willing to grant rebels autonomy in order to keep the country together. Sounds like the plan is to have Donetsk be an autonomous region similar to Crimea before Russia annexed it.

Also, Russian media reactions to the MH17 report seem to be very suspicious that they are trying to push the blame on Russia.

It is nonsense to spend two months investigating the crash and not to be able to say what destroyed the aircraft... It seems the results they obtained do not fit the 'right' theory. That's why they are beating about the bush.
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We have got no closer to knowing who downed the aircraft and with what missile. The only conclusion we can draw is that Ukraine is hiding the traces and preventing an objective inquiry... The answer is clear: the evidence shows what actually happened to the airliner, and it looks like Ukraine is to blame.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29140593
 
http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-russia-to-build-seaport-report-20140911-10fetz.html

Beijing: China and Russia will build one of the largest ports in northeast Asia on Russia's Sea of Japan coast, reports said, in a further sign of the powerhouses' growing alliance.
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After a decade of tough negotiations, Chinese and Russian leaders inked a 30-year deal, $US400 billion ($A432.7 billion) agreement in May that will eventually involve 38 billion cubic metres of gas annually.
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freddy said:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-russia-to-build-seaport-report-20140911-10fetz.html
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This Russian version of the "Asian Pivot" probably has a lot to do with the fact that balance of power in the Russian-Chinese relationship got reversed. It used to be that Russia had a cozy situation where they could sell expensive gas to the EU as well as having reliable trade relationships with the same, something the Chinese couldn't afford to compete with. Now that Russia burned that bridge they suddenly need China to buy their stuff more than China actually needs to buy it from them. A lot of the agreements between the countries that has been made since this whole mess started in March had actually been in the works for years, it's just that China demanded a lower price before that Russia wasn't willing to give them. That's not the case anymore and China is wealthier for it, at the expense of Russia.
 
In the triangular power politic of US-China-Russia, it was more of US pushed China to Russia more than Russia picked China. China had options to go either way, but Obama's "Pivot to Asia" policy/speech brokered the Sino-Russia alliance.
 
Plus an ever expanding China is not in such a comfortable position resource wise.
Had you followed China's worldwide "war" on resources you would know that they could never have too much or be sitting comfortably.
So painting this as some gigantic loss for Russia or implying they'll be losing money (hahaha) is naive. Maybe the cut will be a bit smaller, but judging by their vast and rich deposits of resources, they're sitting much more comfortably on the long run.
 
(Reuters) - European Union governments agreed on Thursday to begin their new sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis on Friday but could lift them next month if Moscow abides by a fragile truce, while the United States prepared its own fresh sanctions.

The steps are the latest by the United States and the EU following Russia's annexation of Crimea in March and what the West sees as an effort since then to further destabilize Ukraine by backing pro-Russian separatists with troops and arms.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/11/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0H61O720140911

Russia is preparing to hit back at fresh EU sanctions with a new list placing embargos on imports of consumer goods and secondhand cars from western countries, deepening a tit-for-tat trade war sparked by the crisis in Ukraine.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/russia-eu-sanctions-west-trade-embargos-cars-ukraine
 
An article published 12 months ago

The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries' borders to be void.

"We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow.

"Signing this treaty will lead to political and social unrest," said the Kremlin aide. "The living standard will decline dramatically … there will be chaos."
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/ukraine-european-union-trade-russia
 
The Estonian counterintelligence official Eston Kohver, who is being held in the Lefortovo prison in Moscow, said he does not want two high-profile lawyers hired by the Estonian state to help him battle espionage charges, according to media reports.
Foreign Minister Urmas Paet said the decision is "regrettable" and shows Kohver's captors are not giving him the freedom to make such decisions.

Story
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So he's pretty much done at this point.
 
Veritigo_X said:
Has the ceasefire been holding up for the most part? News has been quite lately.
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There's been sporadic fighting and some unsubstantiated reports that it has been rather heavy at times, but there have been no major offensives from either side. So I'd say it's holding. A "Ceasefire" involving a paramilitary organization like the separatists never results in a complete halt of the fighting because there are too many factions and too little central command. Not even Putin himself could keep them all under his thumb even if he tried,

The problem is that there's a complete stalemate on the diplomatic front too. For whatever reason Russia seems to want to deescalate things for now, but there's precious little common ground between the separatists and the Ukrainian government. It is possible that they could actually agree on a devo-max like solution for the Donbass currently under sep control but the problem is that Ukraine will never accept a treaty that doesn't disarm the seps and the seps hate and distrust the Ukrainian government too much to ever accept a treaty where they have to disarm.

The ceasefire should have been broken long ago by any metric. The seps made gains before it and could probably still press their advantage. The only reason I see that it's still holding is Russia. As to why Russia is doing that, I'm not sure. Maybe the sanctions got to them. Maybe there's no real hope for the seps to take any more territory anyway without Russian support while Russia doesn't want this to spread beyond the Donbass. Maybe they're just biding time for something. Who knows.
 
President Poroshenko addressed the US Congress today about giving military assistance to the Ukraine in the form of equipment. Right now the US is supplying non-lethal equipment, but Poroshenko wants lethal military equipment as well.

He also addressed the Canadian parliament yesterday about the association and free trade agreement with the EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29245609
 
Veritigo_X said:
President Poroshenko addressed the US Congress today about giving military assistance to the Ukraine in the form of equipment. Right now the US is supplying non-lethal equipment, but Poroshenko wants lethal military equipment as well.

He also addressed the Canadian parliament yesterday about the association and free trade agreement with the EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29245609
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Canada had the largest Ukrainian population outside of Ukraine. Our support is pretty much guaranteed.
 
Russia detains Lithuanian fishing vessel

The captain of a Lithuanian fishing vessel recently detained by Russia was removed by force, Lithuanian Minister of Foreign Affairs Linas Linkevičius says, adding that Lithuania will send a diplomatic note to Russia over the incident.

"The Lithuanian citizens were removed as they refused to obey but we have no details on how they are being kept," Linkevičius told journalists on Friday.

"It was crab-fishing in international waters. The satellite system monitors the presence of every vessel with hourly precision, so we can claim that the vessel was in international waters. The incident started after a ship under the Russian flag approached and armed people demanded that the Lithuanian vessel heads to Murmansk Port. When the vessel command and captain refused to do so, they were removed by force and the vessel is being transported to Murmansk Port," the minister said.
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/russia-calls-foul-scottish-referendum
Russia has said the conduct of the Scottish referendum "did not meet international standards", with its observers complaining the count took place in rooms that were too big and that the procedure was badly flawed.

In an apparent attempt to mirror persistent western criticism of Russia's own elections, Igor Borisov – an accredited observer – said the poll failed to meet basic international norms.

Borisov and three other Russians arrived in Edinburgh on Wednesday evening, the state news agency Ria Novosti reported. The team from Moscow's Public Institute of Suffrage watched voting take place in the Scottish capital and the surrounding area. It also met with Scottish politicians, voters and representatives from non-governmental organisations, Ria said.

Borisov said he was unimpressed by what he saw. He said the room where he watched the count on Thursday night was a cavernous "aircraft hangar" next to an airfield. It was difficult to see what was going on, he said, adding: "The hangar is approximately 100m by 300m. There are tables, with voting papers stacked upon them, but the observers are stuck around the perimeter. Even if you want to, it's impossible to tell what's happening. It's also unclear where the boxes with ballot papers come from."

Borisov said the US state department, the UK and other western countries loudly hectored the Kremlin about Russia's supposed democratic deficiencies. But in this instance, he said, London and Edinburgh had not "fully met" the requirements of a proper referendum.

"Nobody was interested in who was bringing in the voting slips. There were no stamps or signatures as the bulletins were handed over," he said.

...

The Kremlin propaganda channel RT, meanwhile, speculated that the result might have been rigged and expressed surprise at the "North Korean" levels of turnout.

Afshin Rattansi, the presenter of RT's Going Underground show, said there were "international considerations", such as the UK's nuclear deterrent, which had affected the outcome. He said: "With the vote as close as this, with the mainstream media on one side, with a massive amount of people from Westminster running up to beg Scotland the other way, and certain recounts in certain bits of the poll, which way did the vote go, really?"

He added: "It is normally the sort of turnout you would expect in North Korea. Usually media here would go 'we don't believe it. How can it be nearly 90%?'"

On Friday the Donetsk People's Republic - the Ukrainian rebel enclave - said that it, too, believed the Scottish referendum had been falsified. Miroslav Rudenko, a member of the republic's self-declared supreme council, said he suspected the UK government was guilty of foul play. "I don't rule out that the British authorities have falsified the results of this referendum. The difference between those who voted in favour of independence and against it is not so great," he told the Russian news agency Interfax.

Rudenko said the west was guilty of "double-standards". It had allowed a referendum in Scotland but refused one for Donestk and Luhansk, the rebel enclaves where separatists backed by Kremlin firepower are fighting Ukrainian troops.
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CrunchyB said:
That's some lame-ass trolling by Russia. I'm not even sure what they're trying to accomplish here.
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Russia was a big sponsor of the Scottish pro separation groups.
They sponsor a lot of groups all over Europe that are against the EU etc.

If they can divide us, then in the end they will be the strongest Nation and will be able to control everything
 
So this is pretty huge: Ukraine and the separatists struck a deal during the night. I'm honestly surprised by this. Both sides must have been under pressure to put an end to hostilities.

It's basically the same as the one that was floated back when the ceasefire was first agreed on, it's just that it didn't look like it would work because both sides had to compromise heavily. Key points:


  • To pull heavy weaponry 15km by each side from the line of contact, creating a 30km security zone
  • To ban offensive operations
  • To ban flights by combat aircraft over the security zone
  • To set up an OSCE monitoring mission
  • To withdraw all foreign mercenaries from the conflict zone

This means that the separatists get to stay, but it also means that they will be stuck in the rather small area they currently controlled and - if they live up to the point about "foreign mercenaries" - without active Russian support, which is the only thing that saved them from being defeated during August and which was what allowed them to counterattack.

I'm not sure how well received this is. Ukraine can't be happy and it doesn't look like the people supporting the separatists are happy about it either (the separatists are officially happy, but it's obviously unclear how genuine that feeling is). I found one slightly humorous post on some other forum from a Russian Monarchist (yes, those guys actually exist) who thought that this just proves how "[the]Russian federation just continues on it's historical path of first abandoning russian civilians soldiers in chechnya, then serbs during the 90's and now russians on it's borders [SIC all]", I just find it fascinating how differently you can look at the same event even when you have access to most of the same sources.
 
^ this is all bs. They just continue to fire on Ukrainians like nothing happened (e.g. in Mariupol):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JObkO5cPuHE&t=1m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_-ZtiOVlk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXDFKI68N54

Meanwhile the British RT monkey Graham Phillips keeps filming how they break the ceasefire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBPxtv7DOxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GLtq-RtftA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfEc5tgQh1s

And now he apparently dresses like them and fires (carries?) weapons too:
https://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/513796433158623234

That's RT's journalistic integrity right there for you. I'm definitely not going to cry foul when he eventually gets shot.



An obviously clueless American from Illinois has apparently joined these assholes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vflmOXEyBoE
Which shouldn't be too surprising, I guess, since lots of them are simply mercenaries. Bet he's from Detroit :|



Huge rally for peace in Ukraine / against Russian aggression in Moscow today:

jwT96At.jpg
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0kmXjLx.jpg
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snXJ6fb.jpg
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Some just totally went gay for peace:

JOzm3kf.jpg


More pics:
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/photos/65354.html

The few aggressive novorossia cunts never had a chance with their disruptions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmju70FY8rM&

Those protests took place in even more cities in and outside of Russia (among those Berlin, Köln and Munich in Germany) - some of the pics are linked here http://liveuamap.com/
Washington too, for instance: https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock
 
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