AnathemicOne
Banned
Religious reasons != believing in a religion. People say "Bless You" to one another (atleast in the US) whenever someone sneezes out of instinct due to religious origin i.e religious reasons.
NPR: Millennial Jews Do An About-Face, Start Keeping Kosher
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Religious reasons != believing in a religion. People say "Bless You" to one another (atleast in the US) whenever someone sneezes out of instinct due to religious origin i.e religious reasons.
m_shortpants
Member
Kosher is prepared the same way as halal right?
i always ate meat on fridays during easter
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm saying that cutting out pork "for health reasons" is not something that came from science or dietary experts.
The source of your belief lies with religious cultures.
I've made a point. You can get upset with me if you like for making this point (I don't know why you would). But now you know.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
I don't think Dali is secretly religious. But i think that when secular people say "they don't eat pork" in particular, that's a piece of wisdom passed on from religious culture and not dietary science.
Yes it does. Maybe not necessarily "believing" but at the very least it means you follow and identify with that religion to the point you'd cite "religious reasons". I was raised in a Muslim household but also told pigs are just filthy animals. Our society itself portrays them as such. My parents are Muslim but they also explained trichinosis to me at a young age. Maybe they don't have worms in their muscles anymore as people in the other thread pointed out.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Does salmonella prevent you from eating chicken?
Using trichinosis as a justification for why eating pork really is bad is a little like using STDs as a justification for why sex outside of marriage really is wrong.
But anyway, we don't need to belabor this. I suspect the point has been made.
(digression: I have an ex-Muslim friend who says he still abstains from pork "for cultural reasons". I understood that reason. I don't eat dogs, cats or horses for the same reason. It's not because it's unhealthy, though).
The point is claiming I don't eat pork due to religious reasons is a misnomer. There are numerous black people (perhaps white too I dunno) that just abstain from swine because they are seen as filthy animals. Whether right or wrong I doubt those Christian blacks are just all old testament.
If you want to ignore what I'm telling and just go along saying "It's religion" then fine.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I believe you when you say you aren't doing it to appease religious beliefs (and I did from the beginning)... but that religious ideas from Judeo-Christianity and Islam have permeated our culture (oh, and black culture especially) and it is the origin of people saying "swine is filthy" and then others parroting that sentiment to others (whether they were religious or not).
Pigs are filthy... well y'know, if it came down to what animals I think are filthy, cows are up there too! But that didn't gain traction as a meme. And the "swine is dirty" meme started a loooong time ago, before science.
Anyway now I'm thinking of Pulp Fiction.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If saying that black culture is heavily influenced by Abrahamic ideas is controversial to you, it's time to take a deep breath.
AnathemicOne
Banned
I think he meant that black culture had played a role (a big one) in cementing Christian culture into American society.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I didn't say I thought it was controversial
I said you're starting to get annoying
what do you gain from trying to force someone to admit that their decision not to eat pork MUST be religiously influenced
...
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I guess the point flies over your head, then.
If I say "Oh my god", that's religiously influenced no matter how atheistic I am. The origin of why I say it is from religious culture. I don't think you're secretly being religious for using those words. I'm saying those words have religious origin whether you know it or not. And I argue that pork-abstinance (as opposed to other meats) is the same way.
And who's forcing anyone to do anything? I'm having a debate about what I think is true, for those who want to engage in it. It's actually you who is doing the STOP. WHY. STOP. posting style that contributes nothing. Talk about "forcing others" .. and talk about "annoying".
SparkPeople
Banned
I'm muslims. Used to drink, not any more.
Never had pork. Never had bacon. It smells gross.
Never had pork. Never had bacon. It smells gross.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I was saying that Judeo-Christian/Islamic ideas permeate the greater culture, even secular aspects of it. Dali brought up black culture having a lot of "swine is filthy" sentiment ... And I said black subculture is, in particular, a hotbed of Judeo-Christian/Islamic ideas permeating the culture.
No one in Asia talking about "swine is filthy". It's not just something that comes out of nowhere.
I will. Thanks.
More_Badass
Member
When did this millennial labeling crap start? Just rubs me the wrong way
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
How is this meaningful? Oreos and Coke is Kosher.
edit: Never ate ham! Never gave a damn!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If you want good banh mi you get the pork patty.
So they're saying they serve shitty banh mi.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
How much do you actually know about black culture?
blame space
Banned
(i'm an expert)
Having dated a millenial Jew, it was very strange to try to go out to eat with her due to keeping kosher.
It didn't work out obviously, I love bacon way too much and would eat it and meat in front of her. Non-kosher meat.
Oddly enough, I mostly eat kosher meat these days. Not for religious ideas, but because quality is better.
It didn't work out obviously, I love bacon way too much and would eat it and meat in front of her. Non-kosher meat.
Oddly enough, I mostly eat kosher meat these days. Not for religious ideas, but because quality is better.
Obviously bacon doesn't count, but that's OK.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Thanks for the clarification and I agree on the permeation, I just intended to state that said permeation of Abaramic religious aspects in black culture also had ancestor Africans play a role into it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That it's particularly influenced by American Christianity as well as a lot of Islamic movements like the NoI, which is what's relevant to my point here (the religious origin of pork-aversion).
I'm dying here. You win.
UltraMagnanimous
Member
What about the mixing of fabrics, and ostracising women while menstruating? Do they do that too?
Shogmaster
Member
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's your oversimplification and presentation of it with phrases like "hotbed of Judeo-Christian/Islamic ideas permeating the culture" that I have an aversion to
I wouldn't say I'm an expert but being black I might know a thing or two
AnathemicOne
Banned
If they only saw this meme:
But is she/are they Keanu Reeves the almighty immortal?
LyleLanley
Banned
I've had some solid Banh Mi that didn't use pork.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's a pretty broad and banal fact, like saying that Confucianism permeates Asian cultures.
Being black certainly gives you an insight, but I made such a broad statement I don't think a history professor would even ask for a reference. I'll call you if I ever go deep on the subject.
HUELEN10
Member
Most definitely not. I am a Jew, and personally wouldn't eat certified Halal meats. There are many little differences, some of these which conflict with kosher laws and/or Jewish law. One of these is the difference between Dhabihah and Shechita. Shechita requires the animal to be conscious, no exceptions, but Dhabihah may permit stunning beforehand. Kosher meat also forbids the use and consumption of the animal's sciatic nerve, something that is not a Halal requirement.
Not hating on Halal or putting Kashrut on a foodie pedestal, but they are two different things. Similar in some ways, but they are most definitely not interchangeable.
Which is why I offered the more appropriate, and less annoying phrasing (cultural) indoctrination rather than saying "It's for religious reasons". Using your own circumcision example I seriously doubt most parents would cite "religious reasons" because the connotation that is flying completely over your head is "this is a direct result of my beliefs". If you want to cite the history of a practice go ahead but saying something like the real reason you do this isn't because just about everyone in America has their kids foreskin cut... It's really and truly for religious reasons is kind of ignoring the whole usage of the phrase.
Also stop saying I avoid pork for any sort of health reasons. You've put those words in my mouth more than once and I can only assume it was because I spelled deity, diety... The context clues should have cleared that up I would have thought though but I guess not.
Yeah I agree that it's probably just hipster BS.
Wait till we get nanomachine assembled bacon. They'll all be like, fuck kosher.
Or maybe it could still be considered kosher if it's lab originated pork.
God Dayumm
Banned
Shit all you want on its religious nature, but kosher diet seems very clean and healthy. I've read Jews were not as affected by the black plague thanks to their lifestyle and how they prepare their food. Apparently they were even blamed for it. You may say that was useful in the middle ages and now it's just an outdated rule, but with the current threat of ebola maybe it's due time we all adopt kosher.
That last sentence was a joke.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You can re-read each and every post I've made carefully and I think you'll find all of your pleas here are un-necessary.
1. The very first post I made to your says "religious influence", which is an even more fair and neutral term than what you are trying to get me to agree to in your first paragraph. Influence doesn't imply that the person is religious, or is secretly religious... only that the source of the belief is likely from a historically religious reason (like an atheist saying "oh my god").
2. I don't think you'll find a single post asserting that you abstain for dietary reasons. My first posts assumed that could be the reason... But I was willing to hear your explanation for why (for all I know you had scientific studies which I would like to read). But the whole rest of the debate, I haven't been talking about you, I've been talking about society. I can tell you weren't offering up many reasons for why, and I wasn't going to press on assuming I knew.
Really, you guys did the thing where you acted offended/incredulous/dismissive when I was making a legitimate point. So I did the thing which preserved dignity which was to state it as factually as possible as long as you guys kept responding. So, that's how debates go... Assumptions in this discussion seem to keep making it about me ("annoying"/"makes assumptions about black culture") or you ("secretly religious"/"thinks its for dietary reasons") but I'm not interested in us at all. I was interested in talking about the origin of pork abstinence in secular society.
The whole issue started with you seemingly directly refuting something I said by bolding it and replying to what I guess now is what I can only describe as your own unnecessary tangent. Where I said the very oft-used and very well understood in connotation phrase "religious reasons" you decided to bold and refute, while making a different argument entirely with your inclusion of the word influence. Essentially not replying to my declaration at all. It's my fault really. I should have recognized from the first post you weren'ttreplying to what I was saying but rather just throwing in your two cents on the origin of something which has nothing to do with my actual reasons for participating in the practice of abstaining. Granted I would have just said that the origins of practice lies in religion without quoting someone that says they participate in the practice for non-religious reasons. That's just me though.
Also your usage of quotes in that first reply is nonsensical and only leads to further confusion. like I already mentioned, I did not once mention health concerns. Your quotes in reply to my post implied at the very least some sort of paraphrasing. You then immediately followed up using this same imagined line of thinking I have about health concerns. That doesn't really matter though as I see where things initially went wrong.
HUELEN10
Member
From what I've observed IRL, it's the Azkenazi who don't usually keep it, yet every Sephardi I know keeps it. That's just what goes on in my parts with my peers though.
Is anyone else surprised that only 25℅ of American Jews observe kosher practices ?
I may be wrong but it seemed where I'm from (France) that percentage was, anecdotally, higher. Like, typically, Jews here would not eat pork, have a bar mitzvah, not watch too much TV on Saturday, and that was the extent of their religious practice. That is a conclusion based on all (both) of my Jew acquaintances, so take it with a huge grain of salt.
I may be wrong but it seemed where I'm from (France) that percentage was, anecdotally, higher. Like, typically, Jews here would not eat pork, have a bar mitzvah, not watch too much TV on Saturday, and that was the extent of their religious practice. That is a conclusion based on all (both) of my Jew acquaintances, so take it with a huge grain of salt.
HUELEN10
Member
The realistic truth is that the American Jewish populace is quite secular at times, and to many, feels more American than Jewish. As a more traditional Jew (for lack of better terms), it makes mingling among my people something that has a bit of a disconnect.
Hell, some even do Christmas trees for Chanukah and shit like that, and as far as my Jewish friends around me go, tend to marry/date outside of the faith. Kinda Hellenistic at times.
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