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[Derwind]

You can call her out because she doesn't self identify as African-American but its hard not to agree with her point.

The difference between European-Americans and black people(or other minorities, ie Asian) is that one has no social pressure to identify with ethnicity but rather has the choice to choose to identify with ethnicity where the latter has no such choice.

As a black african from Canada, I can tell you how many times I meet a person once and as we're introducing ourselves they ask "but where are you really from?"...

Now unlike Raven, I do know where my ancestry is not that its anyones god damn business, she like many black Americans and black Canadians don't... that was stripped of them long ago.

So if she wants to identify as an American who loves another human being, then she should, her socio-economic status shouldn't open her up to criticism because of that.

 

[Zantetsuken]

People should be able to mentally handle being multiple things.

Everyone in America is an American. Duh. We're also a salad bowl -- not a melting pot -- of a beautiful variety of cultures, heritages, and customs. These do not need to go away or become "blended" (read: lost) into some generic culture that the majority approves of that steals meaning away from history in favor of surface shallowness.

To say that you don't see my blackness is to say that you don't see ME. You're saying you don't want to acknowledge my family, my heritage, my culture and all the things that lead to me being me that the sub-culture groomed me to be. It's to say you don't acknowledge my father who was one of the first black men to graduate at the top of his medical school class at Michigan State. It's saying you don't acknowledge the racial struggle my grandfather went through after serving in WWI. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandfather being raised on a plantation. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandmother on an Indian reservation.

No, fuck that. You'll see my roots in me. You'll see my heritage in my hair. You'll see the contribution of mine in our history books with attention paid to their ethnicity because it's paramount to many of the stories. You'll acknowledge the struggle and I won't accept being washed or "melted" out of history for convenience or to make some larger culture feel more comfortable.

Well said.

 

[Ivan el Trolazo]

Americans are called Unitedstatians in the rest of America, stop owning the continent and start using the unitedstatian label, even if you hate it, thanks

 

[ishibear]

Let me ask black gaf, specifically those in the thread who are upset at Rayven here.

I'm (mostly) Ethiopian, living in Canada, been here most of my life. Should I identify with black culture? Ethiopian culture? Canadian culture? If I say "I don't really care about being Ethiopian, I feel much more of an affinity with Toronto culture, so I want to talk about that aspect of my identity" - am I doing something wrong?

What is black culture? If you grow up in an Americanized home as a black person, that's how you live and that's what you identify with. If you're from another culture, you identify with that.

Where the hell are people getting that black Americans have some sort of culture vastly different from white Americans, etc? If we're not directly influenced by our culture from Africa (and there's many African cultures so wtf) then odds are we are American in culture.

That people want to disassociate from Black Americans culture to be American is bullshit because it makes no sense. You just want to escape the Black aspect because ultimately that's what it all comes down to.

 

[Kinitari]

What is black culture? If you grow up in an Americanized home as a black person, that's how you live and that's what you identify with. If you're from another culture, you identify with that.

Where the hell are people getting that black Americans have some sort of culture vastly different from white Americans, etc? If we're not directly influenced by our culture from Africa (and there's many African cultures so wtf) then odds are we are American in culture.

That people want to disassociate from Black Americans culture to be American is bullshit because it makes no sense. You just want to escape the Black aspect because ultimately that's what it all comes down to.

As far as I can see, black culture in the US (like with most countries and their cultures) is pretty diverse, with maybe some overarching themes. In the same way that Ethiopian culture is different from region to region, but there are some overarching themes. I mean, there is a 'black culture' thread on GAF - so I feel like the overarching culture does exist and is recognized.

That being said, -what- it is? I really have no idea. I am not from the states, so I couldn't say. I mean there are a lot of little things I can think of - from music to foods, but those are often regionally locked in the US.

 

[Trey]

Americans are called Unitedstatians in the rest of America, stop owning the continent and start using the unitedstatian label, even if you hate it, thanks

Sorry, thighclapland makes the rules. Deal, plebeian.

 

[ishibear]

Black culture in the US like most countries cultures are multifaceted. There are probably a few overarching themes and tie ins here and there, but it's all very varied. In the same way that Ethiopian culture is different from region to region, but there are some overarching themes. I mean, there is a 'black culture' thread on GAF - so I feel like the overarching culture does exist and is recognized.

That being said, -what- it is? I really have no idea. I am not from the states, so I couldn't say. I mean there are a lot of little things I can think of - from music to foods, but those are often regionally locked in the US.

I'll let you know, Black Americans culture is no different than White Americans, except probably the music but black people like all sorts of music so I can't even say that without hesitation.

The BCT is a thread for Black people (no matter where you are from) to come and chat. Have you ever stopped by to see what the thread is about or did you just assume things based off the title?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Melting pot? Salad? Soup?

If the USA has to be compared to a foodstuff, it should obviously be a burger.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Americans are called Unitedstatians in the rest of America, stop owning the continent and start using the unitedstatian label, even if you hate it, thanks

Can I still clap after every meal and fire my guns in the air and scream "GIT ER DUNN"?

 

[temp]

Please don't define me as a race or persuasion. I'm an arbitrary national distinction that puts people at odds with one another.

 

[Malyse]

Americans are called Unitedstatians in the rest of America, stop owning the continent and start using the unitedstatian label, even if you hate it, thanks

Naw, Murica is the US and the rest is irrelevant.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I do not know whether or not you came up with that analogy or heard it somewhere else, but either way it's very clever and very true.

I first heard this from my elementary school teacher.

 

[Ovid]

Rich black people stay running away from being black.

Her take on roots is an interesting answer. But baby girl, you still one of us

Sigh, only one left seems to be Gambino and Killer Mike.

You don't ever hear white folks say "I'm not white, I'm an American".

 

[Kinitari]

I'll let you know, Black Americans culture is no different than White Americans, except probably the music but black people like all sorts of music so I can't even say that without hesitation.

The BCT is a thread for Black people (no matter where you are from) to come and chat. Have you ever stopped by to see what the thread is about or did you just assume things based off the title?

I've been in the thread before - not really that much though. To be honest though, yeah the title whenever I read it kind of reinforces this idea that there is some distinct overarching black culture. If I am wrong, that's great - it would make sense because I really couldn't say what -is- and what -isn't- a part of black culture.

So in that regard, on topic, do you think that if Raven doesn't like describing herself as african-american, it's not because of some cultural-identity tie in, but because she doesn't want people to think she's black? Actually no I don't think that makes sense... because it's pretty obvious looking at her that she's black, I guess I just don't really understand. Some gaffers seem to think she is trying to distance herself from her skin colour (which I guess is all that's left if there is no black culture) but that's not really something you can do by not calling yourself african-american though, right?

Maybe I need a bit more clarification here.

 

[Black-Wind]

I agree ... I also say the same.

Not sure why I have to think of myself as "African American". I'm sure my white friends don't stroll around calling themselves "____ American!". Why do that? In the grand scheme of things we all share the same fucking origin area as humans. :/

Same for the word "Black". I think it's fucking silly that we divide people by colors and the only 2 kinds of people that seem to accept it are "Black and White" people.

 

[Derwind]

You don't ever hear white folks say "I'm not white, I'm an American".

I'd say thats beccause its implied. Being black automatically makes you an outsider, at which point you need to carry your ethnicity or race around to satisfy certain societal expectations?

 

[Trey]

I agree ... I also say the same.

Not sure why I have to think of myself as "African American". I'm sure my white friends don't stroll around calling themselves "____ American!". Why do that? In the grand scheme of things we all share the same fucking origin area as humans. :/

Same for the word "Black". I think it's fucking silly that we divide people by colors and the only 2 kinds of people that seem to accept it are "Black and White" people.

Why do that? Because there are cultures based strictly around shared experiences, of which skin color plays a huge factor.

 

[ishibear]

I've been in the thread before - not really that much though. To be honest though, yeah the title whenever I read it kind of reinforces this idea that there is some distinct overarching black culture. If I am wrong, that's great - it would make sense because I really couldn't say what -is- and what -isn't- a part of black culture.

So in that regard, on topic, do you think that if Raven doesn't like describing herself as african-american, it's not because of some cultural-identity tie in, but because she doesn't want people to think she's black? Actually no I don't think that makes sense... because it's pretty obvious looking at her that she's black, I guess I just don't really understand. Some gaffers seem to think she is trying to distance herself from her skin colour (which I guess is all that's left if there is no black culture) but that's not really something you can do by not calling yourself african-american though, right?

Maybe I need a bit more clarification here.

I feel like she's not articulating herself well enough and as a result, people will try to use it in the same light as the Boosie and Pharell stuff.

She could have acknowledged her black race while upholding herself as an American. She could have gone on to say all of us here in the U.S. are Americans and our skin color shouldn't divide us, especially not in a country that prides itself on freedom and acceptance of all ethnicities, cultures and religions/beliefs. Would have drove the point home and still garnered respect from the black community and maybe even the others. She had a wonderful opportunity to be different but now what she says will be abused.

I wish celebrities were more articulate.

 

[Camp Lo]

As long as she accepts "fine", I'm good.

 

[gogosox82]

What is black culture? If you grow up in an Americanized home as a black person, that's how you live and that's what you identify with. If you're from another culture, you identify with that.

Where the hell are people getting that black Americans have some sort of culture vastly different from white Americans, etc? If we're not directly influenced by our culture from Africa (and there's many African cultures so wtf) then odds are we are American in culture.

That people want to disassociate from Black Americans culture to be American is bullshit because it makes no sense. You just want to escape the Black aspect because ultimately that's what it all comes down to.

Thank you. Was just going to post this.

 

[Ivan 3414]

You can call her out because she doesn't self identify as African-American but its hard not to agree with her point.

The difference between European-Americans and black people(or other minorities, ie Asian) is that one has no social pressure to identify with ethnicity but rather has the choice to choose to identify with ethnicity where the latter has no such choice.

As a black african from Canada, I can tell you how many times I meet a person once and as we're introducing ourselves they ask "but where are you really from?"...

Now unlike Raven, I do know where my ancestry is not that its anyones god damn business, she like many black Americans and black Canadians don't... that was stripped of them long ago.

So if she wants to identify as an American who loves another human being, then she should, her socio-economic status shouldn't open her up to criticism because of that.

Agreed 100%.

Especially the last sentence.

 

[FourMyle]

When you have the money to do so.

I'm not saying she's wrong, this is the future that we should be aspiring towards, a society where race, creed and color doesn't really matter as everyone can connect with everyone through our own combined culture. But it's super easy to say "I don't need this identity" when you have enough money and support coming from millions of faceless people every day. A lot of people need the support from others who share the identities they choose, for solidarity and mental safety. Sympathy is nice, but empathy is important, and there's a lot of things in this world that a gay black woman is going to have to deal with that other people, even if they are loved ones, are not going to relate to.

Excellent post.

 

[Mr.Swag]

I remember when I was a cashier and I would ask customers who helped them, some were deathly scared of answering.

"Um it was this big guy,um he had a beard he um had a shirt.."

Me: "Was he black?" (only guy working that department was)

"um yes he was African American"



Hated this, but always thought it was funny seeing people try to describe other people. Like a real life game of 'Guess Who'

 

[Spinluck]

How come white people aren't called European-American?

 

[Riposte]

You don't ever hear white folks say "I'm not white, I'm an American".

Because no one forces them to identify with with a race (then internalize it to varying extents), which isn't true for blacks, asians, etc. At most people are only offensively labeled "white" as a reaction to other labels (the argument for white privilege). They would sooner think in terms of regions or nations (a la European ancestry) or income level. This is obviously a "privileged" position because this is privilege in itself - arguably the greatest privilege which all the other ones feed into (it's the one that most affects your concept of yourself, the "you" that exists and how that fits in the world you have conceived, especially when you consider resentment). Symone is practicing individualism in spite of her attributed race (or sexual orientation), which is unsurprisingly not considered helpful for the collective that she had been forced into. The idea that she is running away from her blackness is a burden white people don't need to deal with (at least not with race), they are just being themselves.

 

[terrisus]

I remember when I was a cashier and I would ask customers who helped them, some were deathly scared of answering.

"Um it was this big guy,um he had a beard he um had a shirt.."

Me: "Was he black?" (only guy working that department was)

"um yes he was African American"



Hated this, but always thought it was funny seeing people try to describe other people. Like a real life game of 'Guess Who'

Conversely, I remember a time when I was working at a store, and someone was telling someone else over a headset about a family who needed help somewhere, and identified them as "A black family over by the televisions [or wherever]"
Someone else heard him say that, and went and complained to the store manager.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this in any way to imply a hardship against the person who was involved in this. Just that there are reasons that people may be wary about how they describe other people.

 

[Derwind]

Conversely, I remember a time when I was working at a store, and someone was telling someone else over a headset about a family who needed help somewhere, and identified them as "A black family over by the televisions [or wherever]"
Someone else heard him say that, and went and complained to the store manager.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this in any way to imply a hardship against the person who was involved in this. Just that there are reasons that people may be wary about how they describe other people.

Well that to me sounds less like intentional offensiveness and more like a lazy description by the man.

Rule of thumb, if you can't think of a term to use to identify someone to another, try implanting an image of yourself.

"Hey, can you please help that handsomely glowing family of three that are looking for a brand new entertainment system."

Thats what I do. But I'm trained in customer service as well. Also I might be narcassistic.

 

[terrisus]

Well that to me sounds less like intentional offensiveness and more like a lazy description by the man.

Rule of thumb, if you can't think of a term to use to identify someone to another, try implanting an image of yourself.

"Hey, can you please help that handsomely glowing family of three that are looking for a brand new entertainment system."

Thats what I do. But I'm trained in customer service as well. Also I might be narcassistic.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't have gone with that description myself, and as a primary description I could certainly see someone taking issue with it.

But, at least in regards to the post I was replying to, where the person seemed to find it funny that someone would dance around what would have been (in their view) the easiest description.

 

[Malyse]

Conversely, I remember a time when I was working at a store, and someone was telling someone else over a headset about a family who needed help somewhere, and identified them as "A black family over by the televisions [or wherever]"
Someone else heard him say that, and went and complained to the store manager.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this in any way to imply a hardship against the person who was involved in this. Just that there are reasons that people may be wary about how they describe other people.

Better than ethinic. Or urban.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

Hey look at me!


Who cares... Black Twitter blows up at everything.

 

[Malyse]

Hey look at me!


Who cares... Black Twitter blows up at everything.

Really? Really?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Hey look at me!


Who cares... Black Twitter blows up at everything.

Smashing bit of contribution ol chap.

 

[way more]

When people say this it always reminds me of "I'm Doug," sketches because their reasoning is very blustery and doesn't have a point.

http://www.mtv.com/videos/misc/375192/doug-and-dad.jhtml

 

[Clockwork]

You don't ever hear white folks say "I'm not white, I'm an American".

I have great grandparents that immigrated from Poland and Germany.

I guarantee even they (once they became citizens) identified themselves as American and not German-American or Polish-American.

I any case Raven didn't say she wasn't black, she said she doesn't identify herself as African-American. Which I think if she feels no connection to such a label, it would be foolish to do so. More power to her.

EDIT: It's kind of interesting, but this thread reminded me of this time in 3rd or 4th grade where we were supposed to bring a food dish to represent our heritage for ethnic day. When I told my dad this he actually got upset and told me to tell the teachers I'm a goddamn American. Needless to say I told him that wasn't going to fly, so I brought in sauerkraut and kielbasa.

 

[Grizzo]

I remember when I was a cashier and I would ask customers who helped them, some were deathly scared of answering.

"Um it was this big guy,um he had a beard he um had a shirt.."

Me: "Was he black?" (only guy working that department was)

"um yes he was African American"



Hated this, but always thought it was funny seeing people try to describe other people. Like a real life game of 'Guess Who'

http://youtu.be/V6iWF8CsK7o

 

[Zee-Row]

What are white people born in Africa called anyway?

 

[Malyse]

What are white people born in Africa called anyway?

White.

 

[impetuous_silly]

I'm a gay man and she mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

[Trey]

I'm a gay man and she mirrors my thoughts exactly.

Maybe not exactly as you referred to yourself as a gay man.

 

[ReiGun]

It's nice to want things, Rae.

 

[terrisus]

What are white people born in Africa called anyway?

I took a course one time with a white woman who was born in Africa (forget where exactly in), who identified herself as African-American.

 

[PS3GamerKyle]

that's so Raven!

 

[junpei]

I understand what she is getting at but I would like to point out that she has more resources than your average black person to find out about her heritage. African American isn't the best term for us but Black has some issue as well . Black has a lot of negative connotation attached to it . Black plague , Black magic , blacklisted, Black cat, black hat and so on . more often then not Black is associated with negative things and that isn't the best label for us . African American fails when you throw African and Caribbean into the mix . It also a little jarring when you have white people correcting you when you call yourself black ( It has happen to me before ). I don't know what black that both honors our heritage and fits African and Caribbean people .

 

[Dr.Acula]

I am older than one of the actors from The Cosby Show?

What?

What?

Wat?

 

[Edag Plata]

Absolutely fantastic response. This is how I dream we all see things one day.

 

[impetuous_silly]

Maybe not exactly as you referred to yourself as a gay man.

As a person whom society labels "gay", she mirrors my exact thoughts. Is that better?

 

[Femmeworth]

Actually watching the video rather than just reading the somewhat misleading article, I realized I was under the false assumption that she was only attracted to women. She definitely indicated that she isn't a monosexual (straight or gay/lesbian). If she doesn't want to identify as a bisexual, that's a whole other can of worms. Though there are people out there that genuinely feel that "bisexual" doesn't fit them and use alternative labels such as pansexual and omnisexual.

 

[Vermillion]

I mean... I understand it. Reason more people don't do it is because society doesn't really let you. Who doesn't want to be seen the same as anyone else, with any uniqueness being flavoring instead of the whole dish?

 

[Valhelm]

What are white people born in Africa called anyway?

European African. If they're Arab or Berber and identify as white, they're called Arabs or Berbers.

 

[akira28]

baby boo is still black tho. I won't call her a thing.